Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Guest sahib

Did Any Of The Gurus Marry Outside Caste ?

51 posts in this topic

CAN YOU PLEASE CHANGE YOUR STUPID USERNAME NOW.

YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED TO USE THIS ON A SIKH FORUM LIKE SIKHSANGAT WHICH HAS ZERO TOLERANCE FOR CASTEISM.

He had a different a different username when he first commented but he changed half way through to make his point.

He can be proud of being Jat as much as he wants to be, but Brahims - the highest caste, will still look him down as a "backward low caste"

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This question of did the Gurus marry outside caste is strange because Guru Ji isn't a body and has never been. Guru Ji is, has always been and will always be, the divine Jot of Vaheguru, therefore Guru Ji is outside caste. It is this Jot that is present in Shabad Guru, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. People keep tying Guru Ji down to worldly things. Yes Guru Jot was present in 10 bodies from Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, and that they lived exampled lives that we should aim to emulate. Guru Ji is outside caste and has no caste. Guru Ji is Guru Ji simple as that.

" Guru ji is Guru Ji simple as that"

Just loved it...Swaad a gyaa..mann khush ho gya pardh ke....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He can be proud of being Jat as much as he wants to be, but Brahims - the highest caste, will still look him down as a "backward low caste"

Jatts don't give two hoots about what Brahmans think.

Cultural traditions have been to marry daughter in caste. son is w.e various gurus married from different quoms.

6th guru married sangha jatt.

ਖਾਲਿਸਤਾਨ ਜ਼ਿੰਦਾਬਾਦ | ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ | ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹਿ | |

Which wife was Sangha Jatt?

Actually guru tegh bahadur married mata gujari, who was of the Gujjar tribe/caste, so yes 1 of our gurus did marry outside of their khatri tribe!

Mata Gujri was not of Gujjar tribe/caste.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jatts don't give two hoots about what Brahmans think.

Which wife was Sangha Jatt?

Mata Gujri was not of Gujjar tribe/caste.

Singhs give innumerable boots to jatts and start again from one.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do I have to repeat this:

GURU JI CANNOT MARRY OUT OF CASTE BECAUSE GURU JI HAS NO CASTE.

GURU JI IS THE DIVINE LIGHT OF VAHEGURU.

GURU JI IS GURU JI. It's that simple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guru Ji is outside caste and has no caste. Guru Ji is Guru Ji simple as that.

Yet in Gurbani, the Guru's have identified their caste, and also the bhagats have identified their castes as well.

Can you tell us where Guru Ji (the body) has said they are outside caste?

without turning it into a slanging match?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yet in Gurbani, the Guru's have identified their caste, and also the bhagats have identified their castes as well.

Can you tell us where Guru Ji (the body) has said they are outside caste?

without turning it into a slanging match?

Veer Ji, VJKK VJKF, Please can you provide what caste Guru Ji says they are in, because since Guru Ji and Vaheguru Ji are one and the same and Vaheguru is casteless then so is Guru Ji. What caste would you give Shabad Guru?

This is the nearest Shabad I found:

Pauree:
The kings, emperors, rulers, lords, nobles and chiefs, are all created by the Lord.
Whatever the Lord causes them to do, they do; they are all beggars, dependent on the Lord.
Such is God, the Lord of all; He is on the True Guru's side. All castes and social classes, the four sources of creation, and the whole universe are slaves of the True Guru; God makes them work for Him.
See the glorious greatness of serving the Lord, O Saints of the Lord; He has conquered and driven all the enemies and evil-doers out of the body-village.
The Lord, Har, Har, is Merciful to His humble devotees; granting His Grace, the Lord Himself protects and preserves them. ||6|| (SRI GURU AMARDAS JI MAHARAJ)
Bhul Chuk Maaf, VJKK VJKF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is an obvious question but think once only our gurus sacrificed there lifes for the people who were from other caste or religions they have strictly told us to think above the castism and not treat anyone one is not good for life because he is from low caste dnt follow those things

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Marrying into caste for me has noting to do with being proud or hierarchy but more so that temperaments are the same as are family discussions. Through experience find I gel better with people of the same caste as myself as I see synergies in personalities but do not look down upon others. In the west I suppose compatibility is more important than caste, but only after a number of generations. Maybe the tide is slowly changing, but in India and abroad majority of amritdhari's from all jathebandhies marry in same caste. Marrying outside caste as some do to prove a point is also counter productive.

We can never compare ourselves with Guru Sahibaan, so the original question is not a valid one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ik aunkar satnam karta purakh nirbhau nirwair akal murat ajuni saibhang gur prasad.


p. After this, one from amongst the five beloved ones should explain to the initiates the discipline of the order : * Today you are reborn in the true Guru's household, ending the cycle of migration, and joined the Khalsa Panth (order). *Your spiritual father is now Guru Gobind Singh and spiritual mother, Mata Sahib Kaur. *Your place of birth is Kesgarh Sahib and your native place is Anandpur Sahib. You, being the sons of one father, are, inter-se yourselves and other baptised Sikhs, spiritual brothers. You have become the pure Khalsa, having renounced your previous lineage, professional background, calling (occupation), beliefs, that is, having given up all connections with your caste, descent, birth, country, religion, etc. You are to worship none except the One Timeless Being (Waheguru) no God, Goddess, incarnation or prophet. You are not to think of anyone except the ten Gurus and anything except their gospel as your saviour. You are supposed to know Gurmukhi (Punjabi alphabet). (If you do not, you must learn it). And recite, or listen in to the recitation of, the under mentioned scriptural compositions, the daily repetition of which is ordained, every day :(1) The Japuji Sahib, (2) The Jaap Sahib, (3) The Ten Sawayyas (Quartrains), beginning "sarawag sudh", (4) The Sodar Rahiras and the Sohila. Besides, you should read from or listen in to the recitation from the Guru Granth Sahib . Have, on your person, all the time, the five K's :



Sikh RehitNama



Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yet in Gurbani, the Guru's have identified their caste, and also the bhagats have identified their castes as well.

Can you tell us where Guru Ji (the body) has said they are outside caste?

without turning it into a slanging match?

We have to look at the question in hand and not bring our own caste views into the issue.

Mehtab made some valid comments on the 1st page with regards to how the guru's were identifiable by their higher castes and how they made their points and got them across by doing the taboo of sitting,eating, interacting with lower castes.

The impact they made was more huge and greater because they were from the higher castes. If they were the untouchables, then no one would have paid the slightest bit of attention.

However, using this as their base they tried to break down all these social barriers.

Was this enough for them to cause a shock to this already corrupt system or did they need to go further and join the untouchables in wedlock ?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Veer Ji, VJKK VJKF, Please can you provide what caste Guru Ji says they are in, because since Guru Ji and Vaheguru Ji are one and the same and Vaheguru is casteless then so is Guru Ji. What caste would you give Shabad Guru?

Bhaji, i did say the body of the Guru, not the jyot. Go to sikhitothemax, and type in Sodhi/Bedi and see the references to the caste identification of the Gurus.

a for the shabd you posted, its simply saying that no caste is above Waheguru.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bhaji, i did say the body of the Guru, not the jyot. Go to sikhitothemax, and type in Sodhi/Bedi and see the references to the caste identification of the Gurus.

a for the shabd you posted, its simply saying that no caste is above Waheguru.

Sodhi and Bedi are clan names into which Guru Ji's Jyot came. I don't think they are castes. Maybe someone can confirm if they are castes, because I always thought caste was related to job. Such as: Jatt = farmer, Gumiyar = potter, Tarkhan = carpenter, Chumar = cobbler and so on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All the clan

Sodhi and Bedi are clan names into which Guru Ji's Jyot came. I don't think they are castes. Maybe someone can confirm if they are castes, because I always thought caste was related to job. Such as: Jatt = farmer, Gumiyar = potter, Tarkhan = carpenter, Chumar = cobbler and so on.

All clan names are relative to castes.

However some clan names do overlap and can be assigned to more than one caste.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WJKK WJKF

We should all take note on the recent history given in regards to Shiri guru nanak dev ji mahrajs visit to the Vatican and on meeting the pope how he did parchar that the blood which runs through humans is the same, what a revolutionary message given by baba ji at a time when the slave trade and class differences were rife all around the world, yet today we still miss the gian within the gian of the Shiri Guru Granth Sahib ji and attach supremacy and honour on something which has no bases in sikhi.

WJKK WJKF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

caste da ni rolah payidaa.

i'm jatt and i'm proud,, if you chumar be proud, if you lohar be proud, if you saniara be proud, if you tarkhan then pleas don't show off your car but if you s-ullah, then thhas different story..-cuz u betta watchout for my gadhaassah. :nono: :fight: oh balle...i love these cartoon.

Anyway, the guru's and everyone at those time married in tradition of same caste and all that.

We should maintain heritage and keep the family roots in caste but we should not be doing farakh with other jaaths.

thas why i have to ingrain it in my kids heads that they should be proud of being jattan de putt.

this way they should hopefully remain settled in same jaath.

Edited by SHAHEEDJATT
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sodhi and Bedi are clan names into which Guru Ji's Jyot came. I don't think they are castes. Maybe someone can confirm if they are castes, because I always thought caste was related to job. Such as: Jatt = farmer, Gumiyar = potter, Tarkhan = carpenter, Chumar = cobbler and so on.

Bedis and Khatris, they are part of the Kashitriya varna, this was their caste-occupation.

Bachitar natak will tell you more.

Good points made Shaheed Jatt, although I don't feel proud because Im a jat, but it is part of what i am.

Edited by chatanga

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bedis and Khatris, they are part of the Kashitriya varna, this was their caste-occupation.

Bachitar natak will tell you more.

Good points made Shaheed Jatt.

Yes, but Guru is Light of Vaheguru and NOT a body. There has never been Deh Dhari Gurus. Guru Nanak Dev Ji through to Guru Gobind Singh Ji was the shabad. Sikhi believes and always has believed in Shabad Guru. BANI GURU, GURU HAI BANI, VICH BANI AMRIT SARE. These Clans are into which Vaheguru decided that his jyot would come. Vaheguru's Jyot came into the body of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji who was Avtar in the Bedi CLAN. He had to come into a clan to spread his message, BUT it is His Shabad that is GURU NOT HIS BODY. This is why Guru Ji is separate from CASTE because GURU IS THE SHABAD AND THE JYOT OF VAHEGURU.

Do Bedis or Sodhis have a special connection to Guru Ji? and are Sodhi's or Bedi's above all others because of this connection? NO because GURU IS THE SHABAD. The Bodies that the SHABAD Guru was in married NOT based on caste but who Vaheguru chose for them. We must be clear in our minds that the GURU IS THE ETERNAL SHABAD AND JYOT OF VAHEGURU.

It feels that we are disrespecting Guru Ji when we link them to a caste. It just doesn't feel right.

Edited by BritishSingh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, but Guru is Light of Vaheguru and NOT a body. There has never been Deh Dhari Gurus. Guru Nanak Dev Ji through to Guru Gobind Singh Ji was the shabad. Sikhi believes and always has believed in Shabad Guru. BANI GURU, GURU HAI BANI, VICH BANI AMRIT SARE. These Clans are into which Vaheguru decided that his jyot would come. Vaheguru's Jyot came into the body of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji who was Avtar in the Bedi CLAN. He had to come into a clan to spread his message, BUT it is His Shabad that is GURU NOT HIS BODY. This is why Guru Ji is separate from CASTE because GURU IS THE SHABAD AND THE JYOT OF VAHEGURU.

You don't beleive in the Guru Granth and Guru Panth?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't beleive in the Guru Granth and Guru Panth?

YES of course I believe in GURU GRANTH & GURU PANTH. What is Guru Granth? It is the ETERNAL GURU SHABAD. What is Guru Panth? It is the KHALSA. What is the Khalsa? One becomes a Khalsa when totall and unequivocally submitting mind, body and soul to SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAJ, and living according to Guru Ji's Rehat. This process begins when one takes Amrit in and Amrit Sanchar.

When one submits totally and unequivocally to SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAJ and lives according to Guru Ji's they lose their caste. They become Khalsa pure and simple. This is what is meant by KHALSA MERO ROOP HAI KHAS. Guru Ji has NO CASTE and NOR DOES KHALSA. This is how we get GURU GRANTH AND GURU PANTH.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is Guru Panth? It is the KHALSA. What is the Khalsa? One becomes a Khalsa when totall and unequivocally submitting mind, body and soul to SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAJ, and living according to Guru Ji's Rehat.

Is this Guru Khalsa physical or not?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this Guru Khalsa physical or not?

YES Guru Khalsa is physical, BUT it has no caste. Guru is Khalsa and Khalsa is Guru. Guru is the Shabad and Khalsa lives the Shabad. KHALSA MERO ROOP KHAI KHAS, KHALSE MEIN HOON KARO NIVAS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There has never been Deh Dhari Gurus. Guru Nanak Dev Ji through to Guru Gobind Singh Ji was the shabad. Sikhi believes and always has believed in Shabad Guru.

ok, but here you seem to think otherwise?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok, but here you seem to think otherwise?

The way I see it is that Vaheguru created the deh in which he manifested his jyot and shabad. Then it is the jyot and shabad that is transferred from deh to deh into SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAJ. The Khalsa Panth (GURU PANTH) was created to carry out the Rehat of the Guru. Like I said earlier Sri GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI tells us: BANI GURU, GURU HAI BANI, VICH BANI AMRIT SARE. When one takes Amrit from GURU JI, they become one with the bani. It is still the BANI that is Guru at the end of the day. I know it is difficult to understand. It may seem that I am contradicting myself, but it is clear in my mind. If you have any further difficulties understanding it, I urge you to think deeply in Shabad Guru. Just keep the shabad in your mind and all will be clear.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Edited by BritishSingh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   You have pasted content with formatting.   Remove formatting

  Only 75 emoticons maximum are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0