Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Guest sahib

Did Any Of The Gurus Marry Outside Caste ?

51 posts in this topic

Did any of our gurus set an example or pioneered the move of marrying outside caste ?

and Did any of them go against their own parents wishes that were based on cultural traditions ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They married according to hukam. The Gurus were not racist, they didnt need to show that they married out of caste because they didnt believe in the snobbery and ego of castes.

The problem woth Kalyug is that people don't use their common sense of distinguishing right n good from wrong.

Some id*iot had deluded themselves and was so immersed in the darkness and filth of maya that they told me they think drinking is ok according to sikhi because gurbani has a passage that says eat, drink.

My reply was, could u imagine the Gurus sitting around sessioning?

Then they shut up, and they still drink to this day. Noone is prepared to give their head- and thats why Kalyug is so dark n heavy, The Gurus told us that there would b darkness in every home, that noone would practice truth in the Kalyug. Right now, theres only 1 person actually doing it. everyone else is obsessed eith maya attachments, relationships n most of all-Sex.

People are filled with the mental illness of jealousy of others, not being happy with what theyve got. Meditation has gone out the window and only a handful go to the gurdwarra and go into samadhI. Amritdharis and sikhs make excuses, that it takes time, that theyll do amritvela(1am onwards) naam simran when theyre ready, when the hukam coukd call for their end the next day. The world become a joke.

Bandgi of doing good deeds, killing bad thoughts and the mind, and most importantly not indulging in the insecurity and jealousy of Slander no longer seems important.

Another girl goes to the Gurdwarra regularly, sits and meditates, but still seems to think that casual sex is ok. Her mouth spits out the filth of slander every time she feels intimidated by and jealous of a pretty girl.

Slander is one of the worst crimes in truth and yet ppl keep doing it. Ive seen so called sants doing it without a single hesitation. If u do 20 yrs of continuous seva, then slander someone once, all yr bhagti was in vain and doesnt count for anything.

Sikhs need to wake up n realise that youre not a sikh if u commit any of the misdeeds above. Giving ur head means applying gyan 100% , not picking and choosing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good question.

I'm not too sure about the answer and am gonna have to find this one out, but I'm surprised why I have never given this any thought before ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Answer is no but im sure you will find people telling you different or give their own reasonings

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually guru tegh bahadur married mata gujari, who was of the Gujjar tribe/caste, so yes 1 of our gurus did marry outside of their khatri tribe!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to my understanding and i may be wrong in this but when sargun poran guru avtars descend or transcend, they have different divine criteria like their close family- cousin and wife side etc lineage are also born in extremely highly privileged status ( well pious, piety, spiritually aware, royalty etc) all because of their link with poran guru avtars physically/biologically, spiritually etc and thats divine hakum order. Don't look at this from caste perspective but look at it from highly privileged social spiritual status perspective

Similarly, just to give you example from wordly western perspective for understanding purposes not for comparison but understanding purposes- highly privileged social status in western context would be queen king royal family members marrying another person from same privileged social status. It does not mean they are discriminating against other status while looking for match but, thats the way their worldly royal family structure is been carried out an custom/parampara in lineage .

Edited by N30S1NGH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know whether Guru Sahibaan's, Bhagats, Pirs, Bhats, Sikhs... who wrote Gurbani were married out of caste.

If Gurbani says it doesn't matter then it shouldn't !

In fact Inter-caste marriages are capable of producing Synergy.

They are good for Politics, Business & Society.

Edited by singhbj singh
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I heard in katha by Baba Hari Singh Randhawa wale that Kavi Santokh Singh Jee, a pooran mahapursh, who wrote Gurpartap Sooraj Parkash Granth married outside of caste.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets try to think of it out of the box for a minute.

I've also come across another question "Why was none of the Sikh Gurus a woman?"

Back in those days, it was the so-called "high caste" people, especially males, who were calling the shots, setting norms etc. Guru Sahibaan were "physically born" in Kshatriya families, and were all males. But here is where it gets shocking. Even though they were born males, and born in Kshatriya (high caste) families, married within what we call as "same caste", they still preached the equality of genders and futility of ancestry/caste. This was a shock to Indian society and gave birth to a new revolution altogether.

Had a saint from a so-called "lower caste" preached against the caste cancer, or a female saint preached against gender inequality back in those days, they would be mocked at, and people would taunt them and say "Yeah well too bad for you, but you will obviously whine about it, hahaha!" But guess what, Guru Sahibaan shook the very foundations of that society once They (being males from "high caste" families) preached against these evils of caste cancer and gender inequality.

Lets not analyse too much into why Guru Sahibaan did what They did, lets see Their purpose and message behind it. We are not at Their level to fully comprehend the deeply spiritual reasons as to why They did what They did.

ਗੁਰਿ ਕਹਿਆ ਸਾ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਵਹੁ ॥
Do those deeds which the Guru has ordained.

ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਕਰਣੀ ਕਾਹੇ ਧਾਵਹੁ ॥
Why are you chasing after the Guru's actions?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The question is false to begin with for it presupposes that the noble Sikh Gurus gave some credence to caste system or considered its validity. Since Gurmat was founded on the principle of equality, considering caste in all social and religious matters is contrary to it. Guru Sahib considered virtues and noble deeds for marriage ties. Furthermore, almost all marriages of Gurus were decided by their parents and there is not a single shred of evidence that caste was ever considered in this matter. There is equally no evidence to suggest that any marriage proposal was rejected due to caste difference. Such questions assume and try to impose that the Guru Sahibans did not practice what they preached which is false.

There are three possibilities in choosing a life partner. First is, one gives weight to the caste to marry within his own caste in which case one goes against Gurmat. Second is to ask for caste to deliberately reject the proposal in case it is of the same caste. This is done just to show that one doesnt believe in caste. On the contrary, the act itself does not prove such a feat. Rather, it goes to show that in choosing a life partner he still gave credence to caste and did not keep noble virtues and Gursikh lifestyle as the choosing criteria. The third is to ignore caste altogether and only look at ones lifestyle, rehat, deeds, character etc. in choosing an ideal and suitable life partner. Only in the third case does one entirely act against caste system. And it is only the third case that applies to the Sikh Gurus. Whether a life partner happens to be of the same or different tribe or caste background it holds no significance for it is never the criteria to begin with.

Such questions are crafted by anti-Sikh writers as a yes or no type in a deliberate attempt to undermine the Sikh religion and downgrade the Sikh Gurus from the highest, noblest and most virtuous position they occupy among all other prophets, messangers and avtars. We need to be careful of such questions because many of them are false to begin with and cannot be a yes or no type. It is like asking a heterosexual guy if he has told his parents that he is gay. Either yes or no lands him in the gay lot which he is not to begin with. Guru Rakha

Edited by Bijla Singh
3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cultural traditions have been to marry daughter in caste. son is w.e various gurus married from different quoms.

6th guru married sangha jatt.

ਖਾਲਿਸਤਾਨ ਜ਼ਿੰਦਾਬਾਦ | ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ | ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹਿ | |

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They married according to hukam. The Gurus were not racist, they didnt need to show that they married out of caste because they didnt believe in the snobbery and ego of castes.

The problem woth Kalyug is that people don't use their common sense of distinguishing right n good from wrong.

Some id*iot had deluded themselves and was so immersed in the darkness and filth of maya that they told me they think drinking is ok according to sikhi because gurbani has a passage that says eat, drink.

My reply was, could u imagine the Gurus sitting around sessioning?

Then they shut up, and they still drink to this day. Noone is prepared to give their head- and thats why Kalyug is so dark n heavy, The Gurus told us that there would b darkness in every home, that noone would practice truth in the Kalyug. Right now, theres only 1 person actually doing it. everyone else is obsessed eith maya attachments, relationships n most of all-Sex.

People are filled with the mental illness of jealousy of others, not being happy with what theyve got. Meditation has gone out the window and only a handful go to the gurdwarra and go into samadhI. Amritdharis and sikhs make excuses, that it takes time, that theyll do amritvela(1am onwards) naam simran when theyre ready, when the hukam coukd call for their end the next day. The world become a joke.

Bandgi of doing good deeds, killing bad thoughts and the mind, and most importantly not indulging in the insecurity and jealousy of Slander no longer seems important.

Another girl goes to the Gurdwarra regularly, sits and meditates, but still seems to think that casual sex is ok. Her mouth spits out the filth of slander every time she feels intimidated by and jealous of a pretty girl.

Slander is one of the worst crimes in truth and yet ppl keep doing it. Ive seen so called sants doing it without a single hesitation. If u do 20 yrs of continuous seva, then slander someone once, all yr bhagti was in vain and doesnt count for anything.

Sikhs need to wake up n realise that youre not a sikh if u commit any of the misdeeds above. Giving ur head means applying gyan 100% , not picking and choosing.

Good post, nice summary of Kaljug ! Patshash states: Doondam Doondam Dith, Nanak Jag Taoleh Ka Dhaul.

(Searching and researching the world i have seen that everyone is lost in the deep fog [of maya]).

Edited by singh598

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember though, Sikhs traditionally did not and still don't marry outside their jaat.

This is verified in Prem Sumarag Granth, and I won't say anything more due to fanatic bhasurias everywhere.

Sikhs traditionally have been socially divided, politically and religiously united. Don't listen to bsp and ambedkar who only want handouts.

It's Kal yug, and your blood; you want to dishonor it go ahead. For boys it didn't matyer because they traditionally married multiple times so tribal restrictions didn't make sense.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ | ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹਿ | |

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You want your kids to have no history, you know how to arrive there.

You want to listen to 20th century babas and not 15th-19th century sardars go ahead and marry first thing you see.

You'll get the results but if you think the rest will follow, you are sadly mistaken.

Bhudh goes from caste prejudice, to wanting mixing, to understanding power and not wanting it but not being prejudiced.

Both of you are jumping on here like I needed to elaborate what I was saying. You can keep following radical feminism, I respectfully won't be.

Here's a question, how was Guru Ji Suraj Vanshi if it was right to mix with eberything and have no name?

Tl Dr I'm not giving my daughter to someone who not a Jatt, amd not 4 gotras separate on each side. You do what you see fit, and make decision with your family.

Jaat and Varna are separate things; if we gain autocracy in Punjab, you won't be able to do the beadbi of your ancestors that you're foolishly thinking of doing right now.

This goes for anyone, chamar, bramin w.e name you give your extended 'family'.

If you don't have enough gyan to know about lineages and purataan Sikh practices don't open your big mouth about no 'caste' in Sikhi. You'll get no reply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your name says it all. You are proud to be Jatt but please, keeping your narrow minded thinking to yourself. Dont bring Sikhi into this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bhudh goes from caste prejudice, to wanting mixing, to understanding power and not wanting it but not being prejudiced.

So you do not want mixing. As a jatt therefore you are a pure race? Is that what you are saying? Logically, you are either pure or you're mixed. Were you a blondie that just sat in the sun so long that the tan seared right into your DNA?

"Aryan" right?, Of course, it's right there in the history books -- riding east on horses so the sun never set and the pure white got darker and the blue eyes turned a nice roast brown. It's also the feel good line that brahmin and "sikh" supremacists like to wear for the white masters..."just look at our pointy noses, we belong to the fairer aryan side of the club; and we can be racist with the best of them to boot.

"Not wanting to mix but not being prejudiced" are YOUR words. Scary, as that is precisely what the majority of white supremacist hate groups say very peacefully. Only occasionally does it lead to a murderous shooting rampage by one of them. You are entitled to your opinion but you are NEVER entitled to your entitled opinion.

Nonetheless, credit to you for having the integrity to express your honest feelings. The majority of racists don't progress this far. It also helps us know of the extreme amount of rot common amongst us and that we must actively speak out and have so much work to do. Truthful living is far away when we don't even have the most basic understanding of humanity. How sad given the legacy of our Guruji's.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amrit Ko Paani Kahe, Sikh Ki puchhai Jaat. Daya Singh Mum Sikh Nahi, Janam Gavaavai Baad.

Asking a Sikh his or her caste is like calling Amrit water. Daya Singh does not deem them to be Sikhs. They waste their precious life.

Rehatnama Bhai Daya Singh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets try to think of it out of the box for a minute.

I've also come across another question "Why was none of the Sikh Gurus a woman?"

Back in those days, it was the so-called "high caste" people, especially males, who were calling the shots, setting norms etc. Guru Sahibaan were "physically born" in Kshatriya families, and were all males. But here is where it gets shocking. Even though they were born males, and born in Kshatriya (high caste) families, married within what we call as "same caste", they still preached the equality of genders and futility of ancestry/caste. This was a shock to Indian society and gave birth to a new revolution altogether.

Had a saint from a so-called "lower caste" preached against the caste cancer, or a female saint preached against gender inequality back in those days, they would be mocked at, and people would taunt them and say "Yeah well too bad for you, but you will obviously whine about it, hahaha!" But guess what, Guru Sahibaan shook the very foundations of that society once They (being males from "high caste" families) preached against these evils of caste cancer and gender inequality.

Lets not analyse too much into why Guru Sahibaan did what They did, lets see Their purpose and message behind it. We are not at Their level to fully comprehend the deeply spiritual reasons as to why They did what They did.

ਗੁਰਿ ਕਹਿਆ ਸਾ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਵਹੁ ॥

Do those deeds which the Guru has ordained.

ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਕਰਣੀ ਕਾਹੇ ਧਾਵਹੁ ॥

Why are you chasing after the Guru's actions?

dont know but those Gurus were born to great women...does nt matter if no one is women in gurus.......:)... udda b apniyas re behaving weird today...don't know if they do really proud to be sikh? anyways... I think we should close this thread....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember though, Sikhs traditionally did not and still don't marry outside their jaat.

This is verified in Prem Sumarag Granth, and I won't say anything more due to fanatic bhasurias everywhere.

Sikhs traditionally have been socially divided, politically and religiously united. Don't listen to bsp and ambedkar who only want handouts.

It's Kal yug, and your blood; you want to dishonor it go ahead. For boys it didn't matyer because they traditionally married multiple times so tribal restrictions didn't make sense.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ | ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹਿ | |

Hun main kehna ta nai chounda but fe b ik advice a mere walo...jado main sardar banya c naaa main apna jatt puna te ek cancer waala naam oh ki hunda

jehnu tusi kuch family name yeha keh ke bolonde a...oh main dust bin ch sutt dita c...taa krke je tu b sardar a ya amrit di daat layi hoi a te koi changi

sallaah de laa...taaki teriya puchtaa b kuch changasikh sakhn agge jaake... bahmnaa piche tu lgaa firda ae te gallan tu sikh hon diya krda ae?? Amedhkar

di gal krda ae ta sun oh b sikh hi bnna chonda c phela... par tere mere warge cancer de marij har jagah gand poun nu bethe hai na shri akaal takhat

b...je chonde ho sanu sikha nu apne rights milee ta agle de rights nu respect deni sikhooo.....I m not saying it in favour of any BSP or Any Ravidassia but

Only favoring Amdhekar Bcz He was Such a nice Human being Who did not try to give rights to backward communities and poor people but also Gave an

hard hitting slap on Hindu Brahmin Faces....Inna koi Aje Jatta vicho nai pardhya hunaa jinaa ho pardh gyaa...... naale meri ek request a ...Saare questions

de answers SGGS sahib wich nee..Sache mann naal pardho........inhaaa ta muslim hindu ya koi hor b nai question krde hune jinna sadya nu aag lagi

rehndi a.......

Edited by TurbanGuyz
4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Akal Thakat does not recognize these people as Khalsa because they are Banjaara.

It is people like "proud to be jatt" that Ravidasiyan have made their separate religion.

It is shame that people in Punjab only consider you Sikh if you are Jatt, otherwise you go by your caste, choora, chamar… so on.

Dr Ambedkar was also refused to become part of Sikh panth.

Shame on people who favor Caste system.

http://dailysikhupdates.com/2014/05/11/people-outside-punjab-becoming-sikhs-in-heavy-numbers/

Edited by ekgurjaskhalsa
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This question of did the Gurus marry outside caste is strange because Guru Ji isn't a body and has never been. Guru Ji is, has always been and will always be, the divine Jot of Vaheguru, therefore Guru Ji is outside caste. It is this Jot that is present in Shabad Guru, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. People keep tying Guru Ji down to worldly things. Yes Guru Jot was present in 10 bodies from Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, and that they lived exampled lives that we should aim to emulate. Guru Ji is outside caste and has no caste. Guru Ji is Guru Ji simple as that.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ਗੁਰਿ ਕਹਿਆ ਸਾ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਵਹੁ ॥

Do those deeds which the Guru has ordained.

ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਕਰਣੀ ਕਾਹੇ ਧਾਵਹੁ ॥

Why are you chasing after the Guru's actions?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cultural traditions have been to marry daughter in caste. son is w.e various gurus married from different quoms.

6th guru married sangha jatt.

ਖਾਲਿਸਤਾਨ ਜ਼ਿੰਦਾਬਾਦ | ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ | ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹਿ | |

CAN YOU PLEASE CHANGE YOUR STUPID USERNAME NOW.

YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED TO USE THIS ON A SIKH FORUM LIKE SIKHSANGAT WHICH HAS ZERO TOLERANCE FOR CASTEISM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   You have pasted content with formatting.   Remove formatting

  Only 75 emoticons maximum are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • anyone watch these 2 documentaries that were made? if so whats your thoughts?
    • Lessons to be learn't let me see hmmm 1) Our brothers should prepare for the worst case scenario so they should arm themselves with heavy weapons to protest the Sikh faith, fellow sikhs and innocent civilians from harm. 2) Infiltrate the enemy before they infiltrate you. We only now realise the amount of infiltration that went on to derail the punjabi sabha movement all the way to the present khalistan movement. 3) The Sikh misls and Sikh raj of the past happened because India was not a miltiary and politically united country it was various different hindu and muslim kingdoms/ empires who plotted and schemed against each other causing power vaccums for Sikhs to gain strength and take over. In 1980s the Indian army, police and paramilitaries were huge in number over 1 million men. In 1980s to 90s Sikhs with at max about 5,000 armed fighters throughout india? impossible odds to win against. Sikhs only 2% of population.... lesson here is increase population by conversion drives and birth rate. Also Sikh pride and Sikh nationalism should come first and override any sense of indian nationalism, pakistani nationalism, american, canada, british nationalism. 4) Always have a well connected world power as a major ally. At the moment the best hope is China as usa is sucking up to india to encircle china. And pakistan will never help the Sikhs because its an islamo-facsist regime that wants indians Sikhs to be killed by their fellow Indians for their own political mileage. So only China if courted correctly can be mutually beneficial to help Sikhs gain freedom from India when the time comes again probably if India tries to do a war with china.  
    •   Who is richer than Bill Gates? Someone asked Bill Gates, "Is there any person richer than you?" He said, "Yes, only one.
      Many years ago, I had been dismissed & had gone to New York airport.I read titles of newspapers there.I liked one of them and I want to buy it. But didn't  have change (coin). I abandoned." Suddenly, a black boy called me and said “This newspaper for you.” I said, "..but I don’t have change." He said,“No problem, i give you free”. After 3 months, i went there. Coincidentally, that story happened again and that same boy gave another free newspaper again. I said, "I can’t accept. But he said, 'i give you from my profit' After 19 years, I had been rich and I decided to find that boy. I found him after one and half months searching.
      I asked him, do you know me? He said, “Yes, you’re famous Bill Gates.” I said, twice you gave me free newspaper many years ago.
      Now, i want to compensate it. I am going to give you everything that you want. Black young man replied, “You can’t compensate it!”
      I said, why? He said, "Because i gave you when I was poor. You want to give me when you are rich. So, how do you compensate?" Bill Gates said, I think that black young man is richer than me. You don't have to be rich or wait to be rich to give.
    • I absolutely agree. But like I said, Panjab does generate plenty of money, and the SGPC, which is essentially a de facto government, has enough money (through the donations of Sikhs) to use this to modernise the region. We all know the centre doesn't like us, to expect them to actually help is bordering on insanity. 
    • 1. I am speaking from bringing up four children including a set of twins not theory but experience and observation of how different people approaches affected their kids in close genetic relationships . 2. i had my infant children either in a cot or moses basket in the same room as me for the first six months , except the twins who slept in the same cot - next door because our new home didn't have the space for a large cot alongside our bed . eldest - was looked after by my folks during the workday and I would pick him up and we used to do loads of stuff together, gardening, reading , drawing , etc he was extremely talkative from 1.5 years because he was surrounded by adults and none of us spoke tuthla to him, had three languages on the go in the homes ,  when I had the twins - we were forced by circumstances to move away so I was all alone with three under three and two preemies . Loving Contact, speaking and engaging babies is important but as the ICU/SCBU nurses pointed out sleep is vital for growth and it was illustrated by slow gain of weight in Dayal Singh compared to Bahadur SIngh.. from observations people who babytalk delayed speech development and enforced simple mouthing mistake which then needed intervention, and allowed their kids to stay in the parental beds beyond two years of age had massive problems with seperation anxiety in the kids no matter who they were with in the day , bedtime creep, concentration problems in kids and sleep deprivation in the parents, one couple's singleton drove the mother out of the bed totally to the sofa so she could get enough sleep to function for coming workday. One child who is now in high school will not sleep in his own bedroom despite insisting on own room for me I'm realistic that my kids longest relationship is with their siblings so I've always encouraged shared space/play  with each kid getting time with each of us parents and collective time with the grands as a secondary emphasis. I am highly aware of anti-sikh attitudes in certain family members so try to reduce influence by countering by teaching sikhi aspects to same issues