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New Ravidas Movement Dera Bhallan


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Guest Ek Moorak

Dasguruka respect to you for speaking the truth. These people are unfortunately blaming sociological discrimination they have faced, sometimes quite horrendous, and instead of showing a better way, have almost lost the plot, in that they are breaking away into a manufactured path, which has no meaningful beginning and no real direction.

Bhagat Ravidas Ji have been universally respected by all Sikhs, and Guru Maharaj make an immensely strong statement by including their priceless bani in the treasure-trove of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji - the only universal Guru the world has ever known and will ever know.

What the people who think that they are respecting Bhagat Ravidas ji in this manner, by separating bhagat ji's bani, are actually doing is secluding Bhagat jis bani to a very small section of society; what they don't appreciate is that Guru Nanak Sahib ji through their 11 saroop abmonished caste so that peoples professions and work would be respected, but their standing in society would not be tarnished. They would all be equal. That is the statement that Bhagat Ji and Guru Ji make by leaving words or tuks in shabads that equate to so called caste, e.g. shimba, chamaar, jat etc. And by leaving those words in the Gurbani when each and every Sikh and non-Sikh bows down in reverence to Gurbani, they bow down to a chamaar, a shimba, a jat etc, and acknowledge that those Bhagats, in carrying out this work were the higehest of the high; they were all pure and, by being so pure they are now submerged back in Akaal purakh Waheguru. And whatever egotistical prejudicial view a fool like me may have, it stands trampled on by my ego having to bow down in reverence at the feet of a chamaar, a shimba, a jat etc as not our equals but as our masters.

We must earnestly partake in Amrit, which also reinds us that the first five came in a similar manner, from 5 different castes when they were Hindu and then when they were born again, they drank from the same vessel, a practice which still leads to certain death in some parts of India. We were to become brothers and sisters on the loving journey to Waheguru. This is where we have become separated; we have not been able to imbue the love in all sections of Sikh society that Guru Gobind Singh ji awaits us all, arms aloft, waiting to embrace us all regardless of to whom we were born or what work our forefathers carried out. Here in the west not many of us are farmers, fewer still are butchers or leather workers, or water carriers etc, yet many of us have held onto these labels as if that is our first love, when the love for these poisonous labels should have been abandoned when we first bowed in reverence to the banis of Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji and the bani of our lovingly rejoiced Bhagat jis. But the understanding of bani has not been as deep as our egos and these labels have stuck because we were unable to submerge ourselves in the soapy waters of bani and naam so that our egos could be washed away for good.

Rab rakha.

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they have made the break from sikhi, so let them go. concentrate on those who you can save.

i dont know what they are singing, can anyone tell if it is AGGS bani?

plus they are just ascribing words in the name of the Great Bhagat.

It is very important to know why these Sikhs left Sikhi. This will allow us to know how in the future Sikhs can better themselves and not let this happen again. No one is saying they should be forced to stay in Sikhi. Many times political figures stigmatize very small issues and fool the average person. I'm not saying this caused them to split, but it can be a possibility. Keeping a bond with them will foster better relations in the future and gain information on why they split. What you suggest of moving on is the wrong way about it. It will only cause a bigger divide and a further misunderstanding between the two communities.

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Guest sikhstyler

It is very important to know why these Sikhs left Sikhi. This will allow us to know how in the future Sikhs can better themselves and not let this happen again. No one is saying they should be forced to stay in Sikhi. Many times political figures stigmatize very small issues and fool the average person. I'm not saying this caused them to split, but it can be a possibility. Keeping a bond with them will foster better relations in the future and gain information on why they split. What you suggest of moving on is the wrong way about it. It will only cause a bigger divide and a further misunderstanding between the two communities.

They are not Sikh though, they got centre somewhere outside Punjab for pilgrims that go especially on Ravidas ji birthday. He is big man outside Punjab and respected all over India and many people who not even Punjabi.

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Dasguruka respect to you for speaking the truth. These people are unfortunately blaming sociological discrimination they have faced, sometimes quite horrendous, and instead of showing a better way, have almost lost the plot, in that they are breaking away into a manufactured path, which has no meaningful beginning and no real direction.

Bhagat Ravidas Ji have been universally respected by all Sikhs, and Guru Maharaj make an immensely strong statement by including their priceless bani in the treasure-trove of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji - the only universal Guru the world has ever known and will ever know.

What the people who think that they are respecting Bhagat Ravidas ji in this manner, by separating bhagat ji's bani, are actually doing is secluding Bhagat jis bani to a very small section of society; what they don't appreciate is that Guru Nanak Sahib ji through their 11 saroop abmonished caste so that peoples professions and work would be respected, but their standing in society would not be tarnished. They would all be equal. That is the statement that Bhagat Ji and Guru Ji make by leaving words or tuks in shabads that equate to so called caste, e.g. shimba, chamaar, jat etc. And by leaving those words in the Gurbani when each and every Sikh and non-Sikh bows down in reverence to Gurbani, they bow down to a chamaar, a shimba, a jat etc, and acknowledge that those Bhagats, in carrying out this work were the higehest of the high; they were all pure and, by being so pure they are now submerged back in Akaal purakh Waheguru. And whatever egotistical prejudicial view a fool like me may have, it stands trampled on by my ego having to bow down in reverence at the feet of a chamaar, a shimba, a jat etc as not our equals but as our masters.

We must earnestly partake in Amrit, which also reinds us that the first five came in a similar manner, from 5 different castes when they were Hindu and then when they were born again, they drank from the same vessel, a practice which still leads to certain death in some parts of India. We were to become brothers and sisters on the loving journey to Waheguru. This is where we have become separated; we have not been able to imbue the love in all sections of Sikh society that Guru Gobind Singh ji awaits us all, arms aloft, waiting to embrace us all regardless of to whom we were born or what work our forefathers carried out. Here in the west not many of us are farmers, fewer still are butchers or leather workers, or water carriers etc, yet many of us have held onto these labels as if that is our first love, when the love for these poisonous labels should have been abandoned when we first bowed in reverence to the banis of Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji and the bani of our lovingly rejoiced Bhagat jis. But the understanding of bani has not been as deep as our egos and these labels have stuck because we were unable to submerge ourselves in the soapy waters of bani and naam so that our egos could be washed away for good.

Rab rakha.

WJKK, WJKF

Great post, so much more needs to be done about the caste issue within sikhi, if only people would understand that really caste is simply a job title....nothing to be proud off like a shackle of a slave, holding them back from azaadhi, it is the largest detrimental opinion left in sikhi, which its affect is literally evident and the bases of why the split has happened.

Even now, in posts people are still attributing this communities caste, what has their caste have to really do with it? I think we should look at ourselves.

I look forward to reading your other posts.

WJKK WJKK

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It is very important to know why these Sikhs left Sikhi. This will allow us to know how in the future Sikhs can better themselves and not let this happen again. No one is saying they should be forced to stay in Sikhi. Many times political figures stigmatize very small issues and fool the average person. I'm not saying this caused them to split, but it can be a possibility. Keeping a bond with them will foster better relations in the future and gain information on why they split. What you suggest of moving on is the wrong way about it. It will only cause a bigger divide and a further misunderstanding between the two communities.

WJKK WJKF

The reason why this has happened is because the supposedly sikh kaum cannot stop affiliating itself with its pride of caste. How many titles of " this sikh" "that sikh" are there? We even go as far to attribute caste to great shaheeds now, who died for the right to live by the sikh principles. So called Parcharaks and historians are fuelling the fire as they state one caste did more kurbani for sikhi than another. Dhan Dhan Bhagat Ravidas anti caste views within his shabads sound at such a volume, hence why they were compiled within our guru, but the so called sikhs of that guru today practice the religion of caste and simply bow down to the SGGS ji as mere ritual now. We should all as sikhs condemn caste, encourage the holy nectar and instead of holding caste close to our hearts, we should denounce our castes and hold strong our sikh bond with our brothers and sisters. Simply a boycott on caste is needed. As we are the parents now, if caste is still present within sikhi when our children become adults, we have no one to blame but ourselves. So if we really believe in the progression and the sustaining of our Nirmal panth, then it is everyone's responsibility and we as parents now should not blame the elder generation, we should educate them as we will educate our children and move forward as our guru intended.

WJKK WJKF

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Guest Ek Moorak

Guru Piare Sikhiseeker

Unfortunately the people that these people are being blinded by are using their affiliation to jaat, or a particular jaat and correlating this as a link between Bhagat Jis bani and a nation that Bhagat Ji never espoused as a nation, nor ever existed. They have fermented the hatred of prejudicial treatment that they received by some sections in society due to their jaat into a hatred of Sikhi. And groups opposed to Sikhi are using this hatred to ulterior motives, such as the Nirankari speaker in the video link Rankirini has kindly uploaded.

In reality, wider Sikh society accepted that mistakes were made and that is why the establishment of Bhagat Ravidas Gurdwaras etc was not opposed, similar in manner to the establishment of Black Led Churches by Christians of African/Carribean descent in the UK due to the discrimination they faced in the UK when they first arrived.

The problem as dass has understood from observation over recent times, is that with the development of a separation from mainstream Sikhi, core parchaar was compromised at these Gurdwaras and some people with political motives and personal vendettas and even hatreds, with newly found identity and pseudo-confidence in numbers, set up Bhawans etc instead of Gurdwaras, they adopted a separate nishaan, a separate Jaikara and started referring to Bhagat ji as Guru ji.

Unfortunately, with the vacuum in parchaar, others exploited the separation, and slowly the identity mushroomed into anything that was Ravidasi and not just Sikhi. Hence Ambedkar days being staged at these Gurdwaras, even though Ambedkar ji himself was a Buddhist. Similarly, a large proportion of this now 'caste' based Ravidasia community slowly entered into a following of RadhaSwami as well as other deras, including deras such as Dera Ballan including a sizeable denomination following Christianity.

Most of the Punjab based deras have though maintained links with mainstream Sikhi and resolutely stated that their first and foremost link is to Sikhi, and their reverence is to Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and have thus rejected the moves by dera Ballan to establish a pothi only containing Bhagat jis bani instead of Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji at Gurdwaras and Bhawans.

There are unfortunately those within the Ravidassia community, as it has now labeled itself, who have no respect for Sikhi, aren't Sikhs and have no linkage to Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, other than the fact that Bhagat Ji's bani forms part of the Ang of Guru Maharaj.

They now want to separate these banis from Bhagat ji as a reference to all of humanity, and stranglehold them into a separate entity. Conversely we have another enemy within in the guise of the Missionaries who want to extract all Bhagat banis from Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. All these people, in my opinion, don't have any spiritual base, but are either former naxal influenced communists who for decades wanted to vent their hatred to Sikhi, and like trojan horses or virus, have remained loosely connected to Sikh diaspora as predatory leaches waiting to exploit their narrow agendas.

We shouldn't despair as it is all in Guru Jis bhaana. If any objective comparison was made of the way people of different castes are treated in India in Punjab and other states, the comparison would be eyeopening. It is only due to the blessing of Satguru Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji that the Khalsa were created, Sahib Sri Gobind Singh ji created Sardars from peasants, (incidentally all these so called jaats were actually peasants- its is unfortunate that the tradition of kes and dastar hasn't been maintained in all sections of our society), Banda Singh Bahadur confiscated land from the Mughal aristocrats and Hindu Rajas and distributed land to all Sikhs, who regardless of their former jaat overnight had become Sardaars. This model isn't found in any other state.

People of peasant castes in other states are still unable to have landholdings, let alone have their own Gurdwaras or deras or mandirs of any religious denomination. That is why in Orissa Dalits who convert to Christianity are brutally murdered, their women stripped in public and their children whipped.

Yes, agreed things aren't perfect in Punjab, but Sikhs haven't been able to exert Sikh philosophy anywhere in its true form, not even in Punjab, In Punjab Amritdhari Sikhs across the board are persecuted; nearly a quarter of a million Sikhs have been exterminated in the past 3 decades. We can't have our own free press and media. And Sikhs remain a minority in every part of India including Punjab. So the remaining remnants of this social cancer of caste haven't been able to be addressed in the way shape or form that many practicing Sikhs would expect; the past 2 decades have simply a time for survival.

Bhai Beant Singh ji and Bhai Kehar Singh who were both responsible for avenging the assault on Sri Harmandir Sahib were mazbi Sikhs. And they along with Shaheed Bhai Satwant Singh, with Maharaj kirpa, are responsible for restoring the dastar of the Sikhs after Operation Bluestar. It is a fact that when we remember Bhai Kehar Singh and Bhai Beant Singh their jaat is never brought into the equation, just as when Bibi Bimal Kaur Khalsa were elected as an MP post 1986. Lets celebrate these heroes wholeheartedly, and the more and more Gurdwaras that celebrate Bhagat Ravidas Ji's janam din and the days of other Bhagats, the less influence these trojans will be able to exert and their cause will die a death.

More importantly, lets remind all our brothers and sisters that they are equally worthy to receive Guru Ji's blessing of Amrit and share in the Sardari that He has blessed all His children with. This will be the biggest slap in the face of the haters and will develop lasting bonds with Guru Maharaj instead of superficial labels of Sikh nationhood.

Rab rakha

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Guest Singhniuk

Ok I have a couple of questions and apologise for my lack of knowledge.

What is the differences between a place of worship which has the SGGS and calls it self a Bhawan or a Gurdwara or a gurdwara bhawan?

Isn't a Gurdwara and Bhawan the same if it has the SGGS?

Satguru Ravidas's birthday was celebrated across UK by Akhand Paath isn't this Sikh? It's not just a three day celebration Event or jolly as some ravidas people have refered too?

Is the Amrit bani going to be read over three days in the future celebrations and called Akhand paath like they have done with the wedding lava??

If there are links with excommunicated groups such as nirankari a will the temples be excommunicated by sikh bodies??

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