Nanaksar Worshipping Photos

[jaspreet1]

Dasam Bani does not discriminate between stone idols whether that be a picture or statue, or etc. Guru Gobind Singh does not write a stone idol of Vishnu and other dieties is wrong, but says the worship of a stone idol brings no results.

ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦॥

ਇਕ ਬਿਨ ਦੂਸਰ ਸੋ ਨ ਚਿਨਾਰ ॥

ਭੰਜਨ ਗੜ੍ਹਨ ਸਮਰਥ ਸਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਜਾਨਤ ਹੈ ਕਰਤਾਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਕਹਾ ਭਇਓ ਜੋ ਅਤਿ ਹਿਤ ਚਿਤ ਕਰ ਬਹੁਬਿਧਿ ਸਿਲਾ ਪੁਜਾਈ ॥

ਪਾਨ ਥਕੇ ਪਾਹਿਨ ਕੱਹ ਪਰਸਤ ਕਛੁ ਕਰ ਸਿੱਧ ਨ ਆਈ ॥੧॥

ਅੱਛਤ ਧੂਪ ਦੀਪ ਅਰਪਤ ਹੈ ਪਾਹਨ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਖੈ ਹੈ ॥

ਤਾ ਮੈ ਕਹਾਂ ਸਿੱਧ ਹੈ ਰੇ ਜੜ ਤੋਹਿ ਕਛੂ ਬਰ ਦੈ ਹੈ ॥੨॥

ਜੌ ਜਿਯ ਹੋਤ ਦੇਤ ਕਛੁ ਤੁਹਿ ਕਰ ਮਨ ਬਚ ਕਰਮ ਬਿਚਾਰ ॥

ਕੇਵਲ ਏਕ ਸ਼ਰਣਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਬਿਨ ਯੌ ਨਹਿ ਕਤਹਿ ਉਧਾਰ ॥੩॥੧॥

Rag Devgandkari By the Tenth Guru (To be sung 4 hours after sunrise)

Recognize only One Supreme Soul but none else.

The Lord has always the power to destroy and create; the Creator knows everything.(1) pause.

What if one worships a stone in various ways with great love and devotion.
Worshipping stones, the soul grew weary (the end came) but no spiritual power was gained upto now.(1)

Despite offering whole rice, incense and burning lamps etc., the stone eats nothing.

O ignorant one! what spiritual power is in it (the stone) which can bless you with.(2)
If it were alive, then it will give you something. Consider carefully this fact in thought, word and deed.
Without the shelter of One Sole God there will be no deliverance for you.(3)(1)(9)

Nanaksar have the picture on a raised platform and have put a garland around the photo. Sangat are sitting at a lower level and in front of the picture they have flowers scatter, which can mean they did aarti of the photo in the program earlier.

[N30S1NGH]

As i said earlier bro, try to see sikhi in stages, above shabad is speaking from final advait- gyan stage to raise bar of sargun upasakhs who have turned an aid of bringing pictorial form in meditation turned into road block/aim as opposed to be in fluid moving in stages, its no where to be taken as full khandan against pictures or respect/satkaar shown towards picture which is one of earlier aids in stage which one may or may not need.

Regarding guru sahib pictures, please read reply by one of taksali singh reply from the long thread we had in the past:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/70341-say-no-to-gurus-pictures/page-4

Sant Kartar Singh Ji said that pics of guru sahibs are like a walking stick. They can help a person onto the path, they can help a person learn how to walk, but eventually the sikh has no need for pics (walking stick) n walks himself with bani.

It's the usual throw the baby out with the bath water thing, rather than deal with the issue revisionists try n find a new jihad to fight!

This is such a non issue it's funny, but at the same time it's expressive of the twisted way revisionists are trying to reframe Sikhi. Benti, beware of these people, they cause havoc by stirring pointless isssues but have no iinterest in real Sikhi of gurbani abhiyaas, naam kamai, seva of guru and sangat and spiritual progression.

If you want to be a missionary of Guru Nanak Dev Ji then be one like Bhai Gurdas Ji. But oh hang on, you don't believe in his vaars, you can't open a pothi of his vaars near maharajh and you can't get your head around his words even if you do try. Never mind.

[jaspreet1]

As i said earlier bro, try to see sikhi in stages, above shabad is speaking from final advait- gyan stage to raise bar of sargun upasakhs who have turned an aid of bringing pictorial form in meditation turned into road block/aim as opposed to be in fluid moving in stages, its no where to be taken as full khandan against pictures or respect/satkaar shown towards picture which is one of earlier aids in stage which one may or may not need.

Regarding guru sahib pictures, please read reply by one of taksali singh reply from the long thread we had in the past:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/70341-say-no-to-gurus-pictures/page-4

You did not understand what Dasam Bani was saying at all. You sound very young, maybe in your teens?

Dasam Bani says idol worship is wrong regardless of stage of human being. Human being level is not an factor.

ਅੱਛਤ ਧੂਪ ਦੀਪ ਅਰਪਤ ਹੈ ਪਾਹਨ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਖੈ ਹੈ ॥

ਤਾ ਮੈ ਕਹਾਂ ਸਿੱਧ ਹੈ ਰੇ ਜੜ ਤੋਹਿ ਕਛੂ ਬਰ ਦੈ ਹੈ ॥੨॥

[N30S1NGH]

Sure ji dasso ji pher Aap ji. I was just trying to provide context for the above shabad so that we can easily reconcile with shabad gur ki moorat man mein dhyan gur ka shabad Mantar man maan and you are totally misinformed about arti aspect they don't do arti with lamps at all.

[N30S1NGH]

Also can you please define what is idol worship?

[scali]

How many Sikhs will have darshan of Sri Guru Nanak in their lives? As Sikhs We should consider ourselves fortunate that Baba Nand Singh gave us such a blessed vision of Guru Nanak. This question is a bit of side track from sikh awareness fourm for N30 where I am not a member to post. Why do we play in the hands of fanatic hindu machinery about post of Guru Teg Bahadur Ji on recent post. Hindus werevery quick to kill Sikhs in 1984 -present on any little oppurtunity,if the claim sikhs are so called their own kind. How come no Tamils/hindus got killed after Rajiv Gandhi got blown up by hindus. They should not be entertained on Sikh fourms.

[Jonny101]

ਬਾਬਾ ਨੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਤਾਂ ਸਿਖਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਜੀ ਨਾਲ ਜੋੜਿਆ ਸੀ, ਤੇ ਇਹੀ ਆਦੇਸ਼ ਦਿਤਾ ਸੀ ਕਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰੋ, ਪਰ ਅੱਜ ਕੱਲ ਦੇ ਕੁਝ ਨਾਨਾਕਸਰੀ ਵੀਰ ਬਾਬਾ ਨੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਸਿਖਿਆ ਦੇ ਉਲਟ ਜਾਕੇ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਹੀ ਫੋਟੋ ਦੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰਨ ਲੱਗ ਪਏ|

ਵੈਸੇ ਵੀ, ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਬੁਤ ਪਰੱਸਤੀ ਜਾਂ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਿਖਾਈ. ਗੁਰਮਤ ਭਗਤੀ ਮਾਰਗ ਇਹੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸੁਰਤੀ ਗੁਰਮੰਤਰ-ਨਾਮ ਦੀ ਧੁਨੀ ਨਾਲ ਜੋੜਨੀ ਹੈ ਨਾ ਕਿ ਮੰਨ ਵਿਚ ਆਪਨੇ ਨਿਰਤ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਕਿਸੇ ਫੋਟੋ ਵਿਚ ਧਿਆਨ ਟਿਕਾਉਣਾ| ਜੋ ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾ ਬੁਤ ਪਰੱਸਤੀ ਕਰਦੇ ਨੇ, ਓਹਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਅਵਸਤਾ ਵੀ ਖੜ੍ਹਦੀ-ਕਲਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਹੀ ਟਿਕੀ ਰਿਹੰਦੀ ਹੈ, ਕਦੇ ਚੜ੍ਹਦੀ-ਕਲਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਂਦੀ|

[jaspreet1]

Also can you please define what is idol worship?

what the Nanaksar jatha are doing in the photo.

[N30S1NGH]

Again define what is pooja- idol worshipping? Is having simply picture with har around is idol worshipping pooja? As i said earlier, there is difference between pooja and satkar. Once we can define idol worshipping in its totality, i bet you those so called hybrid shabad upasakhs along with 70% of sikh jagat all will fall under sarguna sargun poojaks/idol worshippers only bhramgyani and guru sahib are true nirgun upasakhs of one jot rest are all sargun baut pojaks one way/aspect one stage or another- some confine akaal into only sarguna five tat-outlook will be reduced to dust , some confine akaal in their rehat, some confine akaal in their dasam dwar, some confine akaal in their naam dhirdh, some confine akaal in their khandan mandan, some confine akaal in their gyan(nihang dharam singh group), some confine akaal in accuracy of pronunciation, some confine akaal in techanlity of jugti- breath should go all the way in navel, some confine akaal in finishing nitneem in just 30 minutes, some confine akaal in their poetry, some confine akaal into only vahiguroo shabad not rest of gurbani mantra, some confine akaal into only their phsyical sackhand realm, some confine akaal into only their bhai sahib/sant ji, some confine akaal into their only group amrit sanchar, some confine akaal into only their tribe, some confine akaal into only their religion.

Lets start shall we?

Picture be it artistic or real serve as reminder, invoke a devotional feeling which further inspire or motivates an individual towards dharam, good deeds, attributes. It's huge generalization to suggest just because you have pictures of guru sahib, saints/soldiers in your house that indicates one is idol worshiping, its quite a insult and those who suggest that are clearly out of depth regarding intertwine relationship of sargun and nirgun and they also have double standard as they have no problem putting pictures of family, iconography of all sorts, home decors in their homes even have golden temple models in their house.

Idol worshiping have two forms- physical form and subtle form in one's mind. We only talk about physical form of idol worship but we also missed to address is subtle form of idol worshiping which is quite important one. You see idol worshiping have broader implications when in its subtle form its usually do with one's mind/perception than actual subject (picture). You could simply have no pictures in the gurdwara claim you are shabad upasakh, house hold nor in your wallet but still be idol worshipper..how? Here is how, if your perception is stuck where we confine our guru sahib jot only in sargun saroop of sri guru granth sahib ji only, dasam dwar only and not hazar-nazar as well everywhere, inside everyone- your perception unintentionally is committing border line of idol worshiping..Jagadi Jot of all guru sahiban is in sri guru granth sahib ji there is no question about it nor they should be doubts or questions, but is guru sahib is confined to sargun saroop of sri guru granth sahib ji only?? No they clearly NOT......"confining" is the crux of argument here...We have iconic historical moment of sri guru nanak dev ji teaching lessons to Muslims of them confining their allah in the mecca..i thought we learned it from that historical event..i guess apparently *NOT* allah/Vahiguroo is everywhere lets not confine it. we are committing idol worshipping when confining vahiguroo who is sarab vyapak.!!!

Guru maharaj is sargun, shabad, nirgun(gyan) and shabad as per gurbani and as per bhai nand lal ji. When we think of guru sahib if we never bring all these aspects of guru sahib and "always" conditioned to be attached to one aspect of guru sahib we are committing idol worshiping as we are confining guru sahib.

So lets just honest with ourselves and look at "all" aspects of idol worshiping than just the physical one....!!

[ks55]

So much nindya over nothing - ANY internet warriors have they read Baba Nand Singh jees works - not so i think not one mention of photo pooja is mentioned - prove me wrong if you can. Who knows that photo shoot is true or just edited to cause nindyia on the forum.

Admins please take note - so much nindiya going on here - why are you not awake please