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Missionaries Infiltrating Uk Sikh Organisations

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MOD    75

Mod1: While Sikhsangat.com does not favor any particular Panthic Jathebandi over another. We would like to urge you to take your concerns directly to them. They have a website and discussion forum of their own. Those of you in UK having an issue with AKJ UK should go directly upto them and take up this matter.

Mod2: We also do not want our forum to be used as a character assassination playground.We believe that everybody make mistakes and it is between them and the takht/panj piyaray to sort those issues out. Please Do Not use this site directly or indirectly downgrading other soul.

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S1ngh    1,346
we are our own worst enemy !

Don't go off topic. Stay on topic.


Jewish never go against each other !

Ronald Reagan designed to foster unity within his party by simple rule: Speak no ill of other Republicans.


Mad respect to Jathabandia's past unspeakable positive contributions to our panth but everything has time to end sooner or later otherwise they will end up in dozen divisions (which is already happening since 90's - look at how many jathedars we have in akj and taksal). Stay and align with panth which is standing under nishaan sahib not with your buddies or people you are associated with. You are not to report/respond to any group except to yourself. Be free !


If one get hurt by seeing bad stuff about someone being said on this forum but feel happy when -ve being said on the same whose writing hurts you. That is the sign that you need a change. No SIKH should feel happy when they see mockery or -ve stuff about another sikh (regardless of who he/she is). Stay on topic and refrain yourself from releasing you deep thoughts about others (especially if they are negative ones). Gurbani is the only way to erase such thoughts or misunderstandings.

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GPS    1,310

The fact is this poster was released by main leaders of akj uk Purewal and Joga singh.

I have a great respect for akhand kirtani jatha singhs and have come across very humble gursikhs of jatha in India.

They are rehatwan, naam bani de rasiye, who have spent their lives following gurmat. They will never go against

sikh scriptures and akal takhat.

Problem with UK akj is that they have been infiltrated by some who are not naam abhiasi like Dhesi, joga singh etc. They are the ones who sided

nakedly with Ragi darshan when he was denouncing Dasam bani. They are the ones who denounce Dasam bani.Unfortunately they occupy influential

positions in UK jatha.Who are they to decide whether charitropakhayn is dashmesh rachna or not.Sikh panth has taken these decisions.Bhai Sahib

Bhai randhir singh was nitnemi of many compositions of Dasam bani. Who are these so called akj uk people to defy his legacy?

Charitropakhayan is replete with many beautiful quotes of Guru Gobind singh ji that were mainstays of khalsa charhdi kala in times of adversity.

For example

Kharag hath jin tajhe

Kharag dhara saho

From Charitropakhayan

Those who slacken their hands on hilt of sword

Have to face blade of sword

Unquote

,

So these self professed akj uk, who oppose charitropakhayan know nothing what is in charitropakhayan.

Likewise there are few taksal people in USA who side with missionaries and denounce Dasam bani. One such character is a granthi and

in lives in northern california.Once Dhundha was humbled by singhs of California Akj led by Navjot singh Khalsa,this taksali called dhundha

for dinner at his home.Such people should be exposed and gursikhs should not make an effort to shield them just becAUSE they happen to be from their jathebandi.Such people are not friends of sikhi.

Edited by GPS

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dass    5

Amazing how this thread has gone around the houses, typical of the moderation on this forum. Benteee to mods learn to keep the thread on the topic it was created on. The simple answer to most of the accusations are if you are intelligent enough and have the ability, go and meet with all those you slag of on this forum and debate face to face. The question about akj uk and their stands on various topics has a simple answer, you have proven it yourself, unlike taksal, sampardaas etc there is free thinking and learning. There are many different views, does everyone agree on everything ?, prob not, which shows the concept of not being dogmatic.

On the topic in question surely the panth need to have a calendar which is set in stone etc, the decision was made and then reversed and now obviously the debate has arisen again. Akj uk have sided with one side of the argument, I don't see an issue with that. What that has to do with all the issues in this thread sadly shows the state of the panth. If we cannot do vichar and debate as brothers without going to these depths of insults and mud slinging not much hope for the panth, I always write maybe the youth will change the status quo but this thread has proven beyond doubt it won't. We still have a chance to change and show a better way for our children, let us learn to be humble and not write poison with our pens.

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Neo Singh. Whatever Bhai Sahib said was backed up by gurbani. Bhai Sahib never ever let anyone worship him.

GPS Singh - You have too much time on your hands, concentrate on your own jeevan and stop seeing negatives. If you love chritropokhiyaan so much read it and do abyiaas of it. Why you wasting your time so much on this forum. Your just finding gray areas to debate about.

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humgareeb    30

Can you show me where AKJ uk have said anything against DG, except parallel parkash?

When bania are recited in Amrit sanchar they aren't recited from SGGS or SDG, most panj know these off by heart..

above - see what happens when people deviate from the topic - please stick to the issue and stop the name calling and insults - moderators delete any irrelevant posts and to others take your personal beefs elsewhere - thankyou !

------------------------------------

to clarify - that dude in the video was never in their panj pyare - he was too young

but still his family did do parchaar against dasam granth - but probably not anymore !

the old school akj where proper chardi klaa singhs - esp in india

had the pleasure of spending time with them around 15 years ago - proper lovely people, so welcoming and humble

there was never any talk of anti dasam - rather they would encourage Singhs to read it

even Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh ji read dasam bani in jail and wrote books about it on page 98 of the punjabi version of jail chittiya

aYVs.jpg

you can see underlined - Akaal Ustat, Bachittar natak, shabad hazare patsahi dasvih were some of the bania the singhs in jail used to recite from memory and a few pages later Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh ji relates that when some singhs escaped from jail they were reading Chandi Di Vaar

aYm7.jpg

in addition to this Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh ji quotes dasam granth in most of his articles and books - especially from bachittar Natak, Akaal Ustat and chandi di vaar

and while giving amrit they all recited Jaap, Swaiye and Chaupai

so how can AKJ UK members not accept dasam granth or support anti dasam nindaks, defies any common sense

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GPS    1,310

Neo Singh. Whatever Bhai Sahib said was backed up by gurbani. Bhai Sahib never ever let anyone worship him.

GPS Singh - You have too much time on your hands, concentrate on your own jeevan and stop seeing negatives. If you love chritropokhiyaan so much read it and do abyiaas of it. Why you wasting your time so much on this forum. Your just finding gray areas to debate about.

Thanks for your advice.

You have revealed your credentials by mocking at bani of Dasam pita.There is no sikhi without bani of dasam pita be it Jaap sahib

or charitropakhayan.

A sikh should not hesitate to call a spade a spade when it comes to religious issues. It is my moral duty to expose nexus between

anti panthic elements who at the drop of hat come for confrontation with akal takhat.

Edited by GPS

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Thanks for your advice.

You have revealed your credentials by mocking at bani of Dasam pita.There is no sikhi without bani of dasam pita be it Jaap sahib

or charitropakhayan.

A sikh should not hesitate to call a spade a spade when it comes to religious issues. It is my moral duty to expose nexus between

anti panthic elements who at the drop of hat come for confrontation with akal takhat.

GPS Paa Jee,

Where in my post have I mocked Dasam Bani? Are you feeling well today or are you just adding masala?? Where did I say anything negative about chitropokhian or any other Dasam bani? I said if you really loved chitropokhian soo much and you got raas from it, from the extent your ready to go on SikhSangat and start random debates about it, then you wouldn't be on Sikh Sangat and starting random debates.

The truth is your just a controversial person who just wants to debate. Theres No sikhi when your doing chugliya and nindiyaa. Guru sahib says you should do dekh ki andith keetha, look at the positives and do sanjh of gun. This is the true Sikhi, which your very far from looking at your posts,as well as I am.

Guroo Kirpaa Kareh

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GPS    1,310

GPS Paa Jee,

Where in my post have I mocked Dasam Bani? Are you feeling well today or are you just adding masala?? Where did I say anything negative about chitropokhian or any other Dasam bani? I said if you really loved chitropokhian soo much and you got raas from it, from the extent your ready to go on SikhSangat and start random debates about it, then you wouldn't be on Sikh Sangat and starting random debates.

The truth is your just a controversial person who just wants to debate. Theres No sikhi when your doing chugliya and nindiyaa. Guru sahib says you should do dekh ki andith keetha, look at the positives and do sanjh of gun. This is the true Sikhi, which your very far from looking at your posts,as well as I am.

Guroo Kirpaa Kareh

Hardeep singh ji

This is what you wrote in response to my non controversial post earlier

Quote

GPS Singh - You have too much time on your hands, concentrate on your own jeevan and stop seeing negatives. If you love chritropokhiyaan so much read it and do abyiaas of it. Why you wasting your time so much on this forum. Your just finding gray areas to debate about.

Unquote

One can easily make out from it what you are trying to say indirectly.

Edited by GPS

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Jonny101    4,072

GPS Paa Jee,

Where in my post have I mocked Dasam Bani? Are you feeling well today or are you just adding masala?? Where did I say anything negative about chitropokhian or any other Dasam bani? I said if you really loved chitropokhian soo much and you got raas from it, from the extent your ready to go on SikhSangat and start random debates about it, then you wouldn't be on Sikh Sangat and starting random debates.

The truth is your just a controversial person who just wants to debate. Theres No sikhi when your doing chugliya and nindiyaa. Guru sahib says you should do dekh ki andith keetha, look at the positives and do sanjh of gun. This is the true Sikhi, which your very far from looking at your posts,as well as I am.

Guroo Kirpaa Kareh

To be fair I don't think GPS Bhaaji just comes for the debate. He has single handedly beaten and countered Kala Afghanists/missionaries all over the net. Very few people have as much knowledge of Dasam Bani as he does. His post here was not an attack on AKJ. But unfortunately some other people used this thread as an opportunity to attack AKJ.

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N30S1NGH    2,987

Neo Singh. Whatever Bhai Sahib said was backed up by gurbani. Bhai Sahib never ever let anyone worship him

Sorry just wanted to clarify as i mentioned already I have nothing against bhai sahib along with other sant mahapursh. Bhai sahib left his body long time ago, since then there has been lot of changes in the jatha and thats normal for any instituations/groups when main leader is gone - its not what it used to be, after a while there is naturally lot of shortcoming in group and this goes out to all the groups including akj as akj is not outside of maya realm affected normal human tendancy, its not infallible group just like other groups is not infallible only gurbani/guru maharaj sikhi is infallible. so rise above from groupism and follow nature of eagle/baaz sri guru gobind singh maharaj gave us.
So coming back to this topic, correct me if i wrong- i believe original poster has started this topic because akj uk shrines on concept of being panthic group and claim this tittle very passionately which warrants for lot of sikh moral responsibility, natural scrutiny and panthic responsibility. OP is providing cautionary warning in regards to certain elements/factions in jatha giving jatha bad name and going against puratan akj ideals- sri dasam bani in this case in hopes for actual jatha singhs to step up -clear up lot of confusion and hold certain elements accountable regarding their flip flop stance regarding sri dasam bani and come up statements condemning individuals or mindset giving puratan akj jatha bad name, come up statement of elements in jatha going against panthic ideals, causing confusion in panthic circle- allowing missionaries to play divide and rule, proxy war politics.
Edited by N30S1NGH

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GPS    1,310

Can you show me where AKJ uk have said anything against DG, except parallel parkash?

When bania are recited in Amrit sanchar they aren't recited from SGGS or SDG, most panj know these off by heart..

Bhai sahib jeo

Since you .have asked for clarification about akj uk stand on Dasam bani, please go through the following thread.There is a letter

issued by akj casting doubts on Dasam bani.

In addition to that Uk faction called a meeting at coventry a few years back wherein a warning was issued to sikhs in general after

Ragi darshan was manhandled at asansol in West bengal thus clearly siding with Ragi darshan singh

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/35608-akjorg-takes-anti-dasam-granth-stance/

The statements states that they have chosen not publicize the issue of Sri Dasam Granth and that “many have raised what seem to be plausible doubts about some parts of The Dasam Granth that, they say, are not the Rachanaa of our Guru Saheb”. This misleading statement confirms that their own faith has been shattered by some anti Dasam Granth proponents. So they seem to disagree with the latest Hukumnama directive on the Sri Dasam Granth which puts their own credibility in doubt.

Edited by GPS

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Singh559    2,562

I don't see why people are getting so defensive, gps paji isn't going against anyone, just delivering the truth.

Why must we always go off topic and create bitterness.

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GPS    1,310

In actuality i had spoken to some of these people when they called and honoured Ragi Darshan singh in germany after he was excommunicated.

They did not succeed in Uk but they did call him to Germany and satnam babbar was one of the main organizers.From interacting with him i found

that he had scant regard for Dasam pita's bani.

No request worked with him and Germany was the only country in Europe where Darshan ragi was honoured immediately after his excommunication.

I am not blaming akj in general>Singhs of california akj and tapoban singhs did a wonderful job in defending Dasam pita's bani

better than any of us.They deserve laurels for that for their deep rooted commitment to defend Dasam pita's bani.They are

the real custodians of heritage of Bhai sahib Bhai Randhir singh ji.

Edited by GPS

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singhfauja    103

I think most of us already know that AKJ-UK is controlled by politicians rather than religious individuals.

The Sikh Federation UK state they are pro-Calendar and anti-missionary, yet year after year continue to share the stage with with these politicians. What else is new?

Akhand Kirtani Jatha (see www.AkhandKirtaniJatha.org) has already made it clear that is 100% in support of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib.

In regards to the video everyone is talking about - I don't know the details but it is one person's actions, so how can you hold the entire Jatha responsible?

Many years ago an illicit video surfaced of a well known pro-Khalistani Taksali from Vancouver, I don't remember anyone attacking the entire TAKSAL or KHALISTANI Movement for that individual's actions.

How is this any different?

There are dozens and dozens of cases of where Taksalis, Nihangs, and many babays have committing adultery, rape, fortification, sodomy, and molesting young children.

Has anyone held their entire organization (Taksal, Dal, or Dera) responsible for a single individual's actions, even though these organizations have tried their best to cover up the actions of these filthy parchariks.

There are thousands of so-called Sikhs that are committing bajjars kurahits daily in the Panth - it this the fault of the individual or will the entire Panth be tried these people's sins?

If we are going to bash an entire Jatha for an individual's actions, why are we silent about the Taksals, and the Nihangs, and the countless deras where so much manmat is rampat occurs on a daily basis.

Talk to Jathedar Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji or Bhai Amrik Singh Ajnala and they can give you countless first hand details on what goes on in our religious organizations under the name of Sikhi - starting from Dhumma to all the way down to a village granthi, ragi, or a Nihang.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones at others so quickly...

Edited by singhfauja
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