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Missionaries Infiltrating Uk Sikh Organisations

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MiddxSingh    26

*Edited*

The reason AKJ used to be very special and the reason they used to have such concentrated avstha vale was because of the emphasis on naam. No other reason. Naam drir supports you doing naam abhiyaas. The higher the avastha of the punj they higher the shakti of naam drir. Nowadays the sevadaars have so little kmayee (compared to the era of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh) that naam drir produces a small amount of shakti which aids in naam abhiyaas for those who prepared for amrit. The majoirty that do not prepare properly for amrit unfortunatley hardly recieve any shakti from naam drir nowdays. When singhs speak of pratan this and that they are really talking of an era a few decades before british raaj. That era too was influenced by hindu mat and dhills in rehit had crept in. Some amrit sanchars even took place then where only one on the punj pyare recited all banis to make amrit! so this talk of any group made in birtish raaj vs before is a load of nonense. The only valid pratan rehit is what took place in guru ji's time. When Guru Nanak Sahib gave charan pahul he would place hand on the seekers head and many sikhs got dasam duar open just like that. Just by Guru Nanak Sahib placing hand on head full powered naam drir would take place automatically. So if we believe punj pyare to be guru then theres nothing wrong with punj pyare placing hands on the abhlakis head and doing swaas swaas simran to try and instill in inside.

myrY hIArY rqnu nwmu hir bisAw guir hwQu DirE myrY mwQw ]
maerai heearai rathan naam har basiaa gur haath dhariou maerai maathaa |
The Jewel of the Lord's Name abides within my heart; the Guru has placed His hand on my forehead.
gurU ny myry isr au~qy Awpxw h`Q r`iKAw, qW myry ihrdy ivc prmwqmw dw rqn (vrgw kImqI) nwm Aw v`isAw [

smrQ gurU isir hQu Dr´au ]
samarath guroo sir hath dharao |
The All-powerful Guru placed His hand upon my head.
smr`Q gurU (Amrdws jI) ny (gurU rwmdws jI dy) isr au~qy h`Q r`iKAw hY [

guir kInI ik®pw hir nwmu dIAau ijsu dyiK crMn AGMn hr´au ]
gur keenee kirapaa har naam dheeao jis dhaekh charann aghann harao |
The Guru was kind, and blessed me with the Lord's Name. Gazing upon His Feet, my sins were dispelled.
ijs (gurU Amrdws jI) dy crnW dw drSn kIiqAW pwp dUr ho jWdy hn, aus gurU ny imhr kIqI hY,

iqsu swlwhI ijsu hir Dnu rwis ]
this saalaahee jis har dhan raas |
I praise that person, who has the capital of the Lord's Wealth.

so vfBwgI ijsu gur msqik hwQu ]1] rhwau ]
so vaddabhaagee jis gur masathak haath |1| rehaao |
He is very fortunate, on whose forehead the Guru has placed His Hand. ||1||Pause||

hmry msqik sMq Dry hwQw ]1]
hamarae masathak santh dharae haathaa |1|
The Saints have placed their hands on my forehead. ||1||

The fact is akj uk has no one particular view on major topics. Even the main singhs have differing views. So it doesn't make sense to me when people claim akj uk believe this or that. Anyway the reason akj has fallen is because they were one time special they started to get hankaari about this slowly slowly over the decades. the akjuk have committed a great sin on laughing at and boycotting bujjer kurehits over the year, but when someone in their inner circel commits a mistake they try to hide this. They can never receieve guru sahib's blessings this way. In fact this is inviting curses from The Guru! Who knows what other punishment the guru will give these hypocrites. Either treat all those who mistake nicely or treat them ALL equally harsh. By hiding the faults of the inner circle and ruining the lives of mistakes made by those in the outer circle are doomed in this world and the next. Even if they remain steadfast in their sikhi in this world, some sort of embarresement will come to someone in their family. Noone can get away with this discrimination.

Final point. The person in the video is a member of a family or 2 that have political power in akj uk. Thats why they tried to hide this. Secondly I thought Guru/Khalsa came before a jatha? Why isn't eveyrone upset that this person has discraced Guru Gobind Singh and the khalsa image? as oppopsed to point scoring against jatha uk? The biggest besti has been to khalsa panth. 2nd best has been done to akj uk. The person's brother is a known mick taker and egotisical bully in jatha that's why it has come back on the family.

Mahakal refrain from nonsense otherwise you may end up like him in this on the next human life. Don't say things like kaam drir. What about kaamis of other groups would you say they've been given kaami amrit? Think before you speak. We all have to give out lekha in the next world to dharam rai which is most terrifying (as per gurbani).

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Jonny101    4,072

Bro after reading Middx Singh's post, if it's true that the person you are referring to is not part of the Panj Pyaras then please refrain from spreading this lie. No matter what Jatha the Panj Pyaras come from they are Panj Pyaras. They are Guru roop. So one should not spread lies about Guru roop Panj.

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N30S1NGH    2,987

Naam dridh technique which jatha uses, is just one of techniques of many techniques of meditation how to naam jaap certainly not destination but an aid in spiritual development. It's not end all or be all in other words sikhi is not confined by just one naam dridh technique which over zealous youths uses advertently/inadvertently as sells pitch to gain converts like jevoh witness/mormons/amish type of christian groups. This is not limtied to one jatha, most youths from all jatha's and samparda's lost a plot. I made a post regarding individual cultish perception not long ago- http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/69848-individual-cultish-perception-and-the-khalsa-panth/

*DELETED*

Naam dridh which jatha uses is nothing new always been there notably around guru gorakh nath samparda who wrote and practiced shabad surat marg along with other kriyas, naam dridh its just one of techniques out of meditation techniques out there used as aids, but youths have wrapped their head around it and start idiolizing it which was turned into road block, it was made into something else- start repackaging, re-branding it and start using as sale pitch. Sometimes I think, religious institutions are becoming like business corporations with same old dirty game everywhere there are competitions going on between group ism, one is showing off putting others down with their self righteouness mixed with ego/pride, claiming supermacy over khalsa panth tittle, its same old crap everywhere just like different label.

But sri guru gobind singh already declared on what is it take to be khalsa. Khalsa is one who have realized its own self, most people haven't gone past their own skin/cham which is made out of five elements their attachment to jatha/samparda let alone beating mind to realize their own self.

*deleted*

Most jatha's and samparda to certain larger extent have lost plot as its followers fail to see things in sikhi as spiritual development stages/stages- aids (refrerence points not destination), they have idolized an concept, group or certain technique made it to robot mechanical technique or path made that into road block, this tunnel perception gets crushed into pieces by dasam patsah himself in sri akaal ustat sahib where maharaj declares all have lost a plot and declares - Jin prem kiyo tin hi prab paieo and many interesting couplets where maharaj is showing gurmat final stage- advait (non dualistic) perception where there is nothing but love. All is god, god is all.

Where there is ego (individuality) there is no love, its quite simple as that- either way regardless whichever aspect one uses bhagti (bhagat ego has to dissolve in sri guru granth sahib sargun saroop-24/7 seva like baba nand singh maharaj, shabad surat seeker- seeker perception of I/ego/surti has to "die" in the shabad (many don't want to die in shabad but rather want to have milk in sarbloh batta at sachkhand - is this is a joke?), advait- ego has to dissolve in order to see advait.

Gurmat is sargun-bhagti-gurparsad , shabad surat, prem bairaag, nirgun-advait gyan marg -all beautifully blended together in khalsa and its perceived by seeker at various spiritual development stages. Any seeker can use any of aspects as ultimately their final message is same- ego(sense of i) has to go.

Many people talk about naam, but failed to see naam in its totality, they are stuck at the outer layer of naam and they all feel pride they are japping on naam, gotten to certain stage - ajaapa jap/dasam dwar etc yet ego of sense i still there - they have made that act into road block itself (where vanity becomes one own worst enemy), while they are japping on naam at the first stage they all fell pride, many yogis (sikhs non sikhs alike) do same thing when their surti come back from dasam dwar they are affected by panj chors again, rather than surti dissolving in supreme consciousness - all together

According to old traditional sikhi- naam has many layers. Final layer of naam is naam's gyan of one self. I will end with naam explained briefly in stages by traditional sikhi-

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Mahakaal96    245

The unfortunate truth is that most people only know naam as a physical chore, they don't grasp the concept of atma being naam roop and how the two are inseparable, thier practice as neo veer said stays at a panj tat physical level where the tongues moves and that's it. I am a beginner on this path and with mahrajs kirpa have had a chance to visit India a few times and met several mahapurekhs and all I can say is that this has been the biggest gurprasad. The situation in the UK as previously mentioned is in a very sad state when looking from a gyan, atam vidya point of view.

If AKJ have naam dhrir technique that's a good thing but what is not acceptable is the superiority complex they try to hold over other sampardas. I know it's a mainly youth problem but it's filtering down from some so called senior elements. It's not just AKJ, in the UK so called nihangs and taksali youth have all lost the plot, there are thankfully some decent people who show respect and tolerance to other sampardas and to non kesadhari sikhs.

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GPS    1,310

Mahakal saab you are inviting divine sazza (punishment) for yourself in spreading a huge lie that he was in the punj pyare. That "singh" has never been in the punj pyare and if hypothetically you were to prove he has been in the punj even once then I would hang my head in shame and not defend the slighest.

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You have not touched the core issue and that issue is this so called family having inf luence in akj uk propagating against Dasam Bani.Why do they do that? Do not they realize that by doing that they are bringing disgrace to Bhai sahib Bhai Randhir singh's name.

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Jonny101    4,072

The unfortunate truth is that most people only know naam as a physical chore, they don't grasp the concept of atma being naam roop and how the two are inseparable, thier practice as neo veer said stays at a panj tat physical level where the tongues moves and that's it. I am a beginner on this path and with mahrajs kirpa have had a chance to visit India a few times and met several mahapurekhs and all I can say is that this has been the biggest gurprasad. The situation in the UK as previously mentioned is in a very sad state when looking from a gyan, atam vidya point of view.

If AKJ have naam dhrir technique that's a good thing but what is not acceptable is the superiority complex they try to hold over other sampardas. I know it's a mainly youth problem but it's filtering down from some so called senior elements. It's not just AKJ, in the UK so called nihangs and taksali youth have all lost the plot, there are thankfully some decent people who show respect and tolerance to other sampardas and to non kesadhari sikhs.

Bro but are you 100% sure the person in the video is for a fact a Panj Pyara? because from your post it seems you yourself are not 100% sure and are just saying he is a Panj Pyara based on what someone has told you. Do you know his name and what date he acted as a Panj Pyara? if not you are just spreading lies and derogatory language against Guru roop Panj. It's one thing if you have issues with AKJ like N30 Singh Jee, but it's another thing when you use Sahara(support) of lies to in order to get even with a group you dislike. My only issue here is when some one disrespects the Guru roop Panj Pyaras. That is a line a Sikh should not cross no matter what Jatha they belong to. Maybe someone from AKJ here can clear this issue.

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MiddxSingh    26

*edited*

The comfirmed fact now is, regarding the person in the video - it's actually his poor father who has at times done seva in the past. I hope all of us would be sensible and sensitive enough to agree that though his son committed a hugely unimaginable maha paap, the blame cannot be directed to his father who has lived a sikhi jeevan. In kaljug we have no control of young kids let alone older children. The person in the vid obvioulsy has a deeper mental issue as a kaami would prefer to make mistakes in hiding not let a film be made.

GPS the truth is many in akj uk doubt certain sections of dasam granth. The one particular section these ppl have a problem with is charitpakyahn, they don't really say anything about other sections. Then you will also find gursikhs in akj uk who believe in the WHOLE of dasam granth. So like I said saying akj uk believes in this or that isn't relevant or true. Akj uk is TRULY a mixed bunch.

If mahakaal did prove that such a person would be in the punj, I personally would be devastated and would be the first shouting to report the uk jatha to akal takth to be sorted out. But I hope the above clears this issue for you. But if you want, feel free to double check and find evidence if you have any doubts.

I request that taran ji double comfirm with sources that this particular family (the brother of person in video) was doing ninda and troubling those akj uk sikhs who believed in chartipakhyan. As if you what you say is true then my faith in charitpayhan will be even more secure. The message here would then be very clear.

I'm glad neosingh accepts naam drir as valid in sikhi. Yes hankaari attitude is always undesirable.

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humgareeb    30

The individual concerned has NEVER been in the panj at any AKJ organised Amrit sanchar.

Stop adding excess fuel. No one in AKJ uk has supported the actions of this individual in the video. He has since been to Sri Akal Takhat panj and is serving his tankah upon which he will need to again answer to the panj at akal takhat.

If Dharam rai made you judge over the panj at Sri akal takhat sahib then carry on with your judgements and writing your own lekha.

Bro but are you 100% sure the person in the video is for a fact a Panj Pyara? because from your post it seems you yourself are not 100% sure and are just saying he is a Panj Pyara based on what someone has told you. Do you know his name and what date he acted as a Panj Pyara? if not you are just spreading lies and derogatory language against Guru roop Panj. It's one thing if you have issues with AKJ like N30 Singh Jee, but it's another thing when you use Sahara(support) of lies to in order to get even with a group you dislike. My only issue here is when some one disrespects the Guru roop Panj Pyaras. That is a line a Sikh should not cross no matter what Jatha they belong to. Maybe someone from AKJ here can clear this issue.

Edited by humgareeb

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Mahakaal96    245

Bro but are you 100% sure the person in the video is for a fact a Panj Pyara? because from your post it seems you yourself are not 100% sure and are just saying he is a Panj Pyara based on what someone has told you. Do you know his name and what date he acted as a Panj Pyara? if not you are just spreading lies and derogatory language against Guru roop Panj. It's one thing if you have issues with AKJ like N30 Singh Jee, but it's another thing when you use Sahara(support) of lies to in order to get even with a group you dislike. My only issue here is when some one disrespects the Guru roop Panj Pyaras. That is a line a Sikh should not cross no matter what Jatha they belong to. Maybe someone from AKJ here can clear this issue.

Please go back and read my original post, I clearly wrote that from what I have been told he did panj pyara seva, in none of my posts have I attempted to pass this of as fact. I also posted earlier that I truly hope what I have been told is incorrect as this issue goes beyond any jatha rivalry and point scoring.

I too would like for this issue to be cleared up by any AKJ member. What he did is bad enough but being someone who allegedly did panj pyare Seva is too much

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Hardip Singh that appeared in that video has NEVER EVER done punj pyare de seva or any other seva related to the Amrit Sanchar for AKJ.

what *edited* did in that video is totally manmat and because he comes to rainsbaee doesn't mean jatha should get bashed for it.

What about all the bad that happens in othee jathebandiaa and dereh, but you cant blame the whole jathebandi for that.

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N30S1NGH    2,987

Sorry just to be clear, I have no issue with puratan akj of bhai sahib bhai sahib randhir singh ji who actually showed what akj means like practically- Akhand Kirtan (non -stop kirtan) of gurbani for 36 hrs straight, if this isnt amrit akhand ras from divine i don't know what is. Bhai sahib who was great spiritual soul who had amazing deb dristhi. Once, he stopped kirtan to do final antim ardas for prof puran singh where bhai sahib saw with his eyes- panj pyares coming to taking soul of prof puran singh ji. There are many other stories, it was bhai sahib ji who first recongnized anhad shabad running in sant waryam singh ji ratwara sahib - when he was eight and there many great stories of this great mahapurkh.

With that being said, Modern day AKJ especially uk and others have lost a plot, as uk jatha is now more like political movement who play silly proxy war games, score points against taksal by endorsing other faction of taksal and is also hornest nest for right wing thought, fanatics of all kinds. There are direct evidences of them they are radicalizing sikh youths of uk and also their one leg in missionaries and other leg is out, they keep flip flopping. My biggest concern with akj uk they are radicalizing sikh youths of uk which should be concerning to all sikhs -I am gathering all the evidence as outside journalist, one point or another it will come out in media.

*DELETED*

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luckysingh99    1,143

I don't want to start talking about akj here but I do agree with the posters above that there IS a problem with AKJ youth in UK.

They do seem to go around with the 'holier than thou' attitude and do come across as somewhat 'lost' to other Sikhs.

I think this is generally a youth problem but somehow the numbers are higher in the AKJ. Therefore, we can't label it solely with akj in my opinion.

As far as the concerned member in that video,- I don't believe or think that he was a panj pyara but I heard that members in his family were or are (maybe his father?)

So, please let's not start assigning the panj pyara status to this issue.

And let's not start looking at the whole of AKJ through the window of UK-Youth.

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Mahakaal96    245

I can see where this rumour regarding punnj pyare has come from. Such is the nature of rumours that a fact gets twisted into something completly false.

The comfirmed fact now is, regarding the person in the video - it's actually his poor father who has at times done seva in the past. I hope all of us would be sensible and sensitive enough to agree that though his son committed a hugely unimaginable maha paap, the blame cannot be directed to his father who has lived a sikhi jeevan. In kaljug we have no control of young kids let alone older children. The person in the vid obvioulsy has a deeper mental issue as a kaami would prefer to make mistakes in hiding not let a film be made.

GPS the truth is many in akj uk doubt certain sections of dasam granth. The one particular section these ppl have a problem with is charitpakyahn, they don't really say anything about other sections. Then you will also find gursikhs in akj uk who believe in the WHOLE of dasam granth. So like I said saying akj uk believes in this or that isn't relevant or true. Akj uk is TRULY a mixed bunch.

If mahakaal did prove that such a person would be in the punj, I personally would be devastated and would be the first shouting to report the uk jatha to akal takth to be sorted out. But I hope the above clears this issue for you. But if you want, feel free to double check and find evidence if you have any doubts.

I request that taran ji double comfirm with sources that this particular family (the brother of person in video) was doing ninda and troubling those akj uk sikhs who believed in chartipakhyan. As if you what you say is true then my faith in charitpayhan will be even more secure. The message here would then be very clear.

I'm glad neosingh accepts naam drir as valid in sikhi. Yes hankaari attitude is always undesirable.

Thanks for that info regarding his father. It's most likely a case of Chinese whispers where the fact his father did Seva in panj got turned into he did Seva as the story spread around the sangat, I will double check but take your word on it. I also agree his father is not to blame but some people on earlier posts have commented about his family being active in anti Dasam prachar?, I don't know much about that so can't comment.

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