Mukti

[luckysingh99]

Fourth one is actually sikh baikhunt where all sargun bhagats -live as fish(bhagat) in ocean(Guru) and this is where all shaheed singhs reside who are voluntarily doing seva (intially an desire or forna of seva for the panth while they were in human body in previous life times)- they come to earth and go from this earth/appear/disappear in various different realms/consciousness to give darshan to devotee and after their desire of seva is fulfilled, they get sargun and nirgun ekta and fully merge into nirankar

The question about shaheed singhs is always a thinker !

I have heard very similar to what is stated above but I've also heard something along the lines that some shaheeds choose or are chosen to come back and have rebirth in Sikh panth in order to give shaheedian again.

I think this is what I used to believe for a long time and then I would get confused when Sikhs spoke about darshan of shaheeds.

Personally, I know someone who had darshan of shaheeds some time before their death, but they actually didn't recognize or know who they were!

It was only after consulting with sant ji and giving some details that it was deduced that the darshan had been of 2 shaheeds for definite at those recent times.

My other question, like most of us, would then be, -If they had rebirth to be shaheeds again , then what sargun roop do they give darshan in ?

I am pretty inclined to think that it is the roop they have when they became mukht.

I don't for a moment think that there should be any doubt if shaheeds become mukht or not, because Guruji granted, assured and named the 40 mukhte.

[jasdeepsingh2k125]

With daas's tuche budhe he thinks as he heard in sant hari singh ji katha when a person stands at the door of sachkhand they are asked if they want to do further seva if they say yes then they reside at the door of sachkhand that is the khand mentioned in sri japji sahib thite jodh mahabal soor jin mein raam reha bharpur..if they dont have wish to do any further seva then they gets merged in nirgun jyot of maharaj bhul chuk maaf

[Consciousness]

Really there is no mukhti/realisation in a physical or mental sense as the body or the mind can not be liberated - how can something limited become infinite/free from ignorance.. What I am trying to say is that there is no CHANGE. Something that is limited in nature can not become free from maya as maya itself is limitation.

However there is a 'light bulb' moment whereby the mind has sussed out through grace that it's true self has always been free! The true self or the true I is not the mind or body but the ultimate/god. That is liberation if you want to call it that.

So what is the ego? Ego is identifying yourself with any object or anything that can be preceived or conceived be it your body or mind. Who you truly are is neither.

[N30S1NGH]

Beautiful post consciousness..do post more often..i am learning lot from your post bro..thanks

[luckysingh99]

I absolutely agree Consciousness ji ! :biggrin2:

Really there is no mukhti/realisation in a physical or mental sense as the body or the mind can not be liberated - how can something limited become infinite/free from ignorance.. What I am trying to say is that there is no CHANGE. Something that is limited in nature can not become free from maya as maya itself is limitation.

However there is a 'light bulb' moment whereby the mind has sussed out through grace that it's true self has always been free! The true self or the true I is not the mind or body but the ultimate/god. That is liberation if you want to call it that.

So what is the ego? Ego is identifying yourself with any object or anything that can be preceived or conceived be it your body or mind. Who you truly are is neither.

I didn't elaborate too much because it gets a little complicated for others to understand.

In reality, I don't for a moment think that we have some heaven, sachkhand or place where all the shaheeds an mukht people reside but it helps to explain It in this kind of manner sometimes. Because if we do say that there is a physical sachkhand heaven where all these individuals are, then it is like saying there is a GOD that is himself separate from people in sachkhand.

We have to remember that there is only us, maya and the limitations and the rest is All GOD.

Some members will think that I am contradicting myself because I mentioned darshan of shaheeds and mukht beings above ??

I firmly believe that this is ALL God, that may come and give us darshan in some sargun roops to help lead the way for us.

Remember that whilst in maya itself, we can only acknowledge, understand and follow sargun aspects that are visible in the maya.

The easiest way to think of mukhti is probably as per gurbani- and that is the freedom from cycles of birth and death.

To die and not have to die again as Kabirji says. - 'aisee marni jo marey baar na marney koyee'

[Consciousness]

I absolutely agree Consciousness ji ! :biggrin2:

I didn't elaborate too much because it gets a little complicated for others to understand.

In reality, I don't for a moment think that we have some heaven, sachkhand or place where all the shaheeds an mukht people reside but it helps to explain It in this kind of manner sometimes. Because if we do say that there is a physical sachkhand heaven where all these individuals are, then it is like saying there is a GOD that is himself separate from people in sachkhand.

We have to remember that there is only us, maya and the limitations and the rest is All GOD.

Some members will think that I am contradicting myself because I mentioned darshan of shaheeds and mukht beings above ??

I firmly believe that this is ALL God, that may come and give us darshan in some sargun roops to help lead the way for us.

Remember that whilst in maya itself, we can only acknowledge, understand and follow sargun aspects that are visible in the maya.

The easiest way to think of mukhti is probably as per gurbani- and that is the freedom from cycles of birth and death.

To die and not have to die again as Kabirji says. - 'aisee marni jo marey baar na marney koyee'

Nice post Lucky singh ji. When "one" becomes mukht there is literally no change on the karma basis (at the level of mental activity or physical activity as it will still exist) however in gurbani it says when one meets God then all karma ceases to exist. Gurbani is addressing this point from the nirgun perspective where there already has never been any action to begin with hence you are always mukht but the catch is we must realise this on the nirgun aspect for this premise to be valid LOL. When I refer to the nirgun aspect that is what the true "I" is however in maya the true self has purposely superimposed itself on the body/mind (ego) without losing its true essence. So what appears is the coherent existence of sargun and nirgun that simultaneously occur together.

Yes, you are absolutely correct that GOD cannot be separate than you in sachkand - if sackhand were a place then we have to say it is all places as God is omnipresent everywhere and has no preference over one place then the other. But even now God is not separate than us there is only him my point being that since the origin/locus being God which itself is timeless then it makes his sargun aspect timeless as well. Therefore this will cause maya at the physical and mental level to always exist even after mukhti.

"The easiest way to think of mukhti is probably as per gurbani- and that is the freedom from cycles of birth and death.

To die and not have to die again as Kabirji says. - 'aisee marni jo marey baar na marney koyee'

^Beautiful!

[charanvirsingh]

if you listen to jaitsri ki vaar katha by sant giani gurbachan singh ji maharaj

, when the saloks come they explain the four muktiaa just for sikhs that want to hear it first hand,

in my understandingthey can be with dwait bhaavna,

if you think about salok, for exmple , you obtain the world of whoever you do upashna of, eg brahmlok indrpuri rudrlok,

also paji i think the fourth one till where ive heard is you obtain the shaktyaan of your isht

apart from, create/sustain/destroy,

but just in case im wrong conferr with katha ji

mafi ji

[satbachan96]

if you listen to jaitsri ki vaar katha by sant giani gurbachan singh ji maharaj

, when the saloks come they explain the four muktiaa just for sikhs that want to hear it first hand,

in my understandingthey can be with dwait bhaavna,

if you think about salok, for exmple , you obtain the world of whoever you do upashna of, eg brahmlok indrpuri rudrlok,

also paji i think the fourth one till where ive heard is you obtain the shaktyaan of your isht

apart from, create/sustain/destroy,

but just in case im wrong conferr with katha ji

mafi ji

Well said paaji

[Mahakaal96]

if you listen to jaitsri ki vaar katha by sant giani gurbachan singh ji maharaj

, when the saloks come they explain the four muktiaa just for sikhs that want to hear it first hand,

in my understandingthey can be with dwait bhaavna,

if you think about salok, for exmple , you obtain the world of whoever you do upashna of, eg brahmlok indrpuri rudrlok,

also paji i think the fourth one till where ive heard is you obtain the shaktyaan of your isht

apart from, create/sustain/destroy,

but just in case im wrong conferr with katha ji

mafi ji

From my limited knowledge on this I also thought of it like u say Baba Gurbachan Singh ji explains it in katha. The four types of mukhti are obtainable in dvait state, the fifth type of mukhti, kaival mukhti requires complete and total re-emergence into parmeshvar which automatically then destroys any trace of dvait & sargun. It is our karams and antish Karan that restrict our mind so too speak, at jeevan mukht level the destruction of karam elevates even the mind from restrictions, brahmgyani arp parmeshvar.

[N30S1NGH]

I am so glad we are having this type of vichar on here. This type of vichar gives strong desire/bariaag for jaigaso to be mukht from shackles of maya and to merge with the source- vahiguroo we all have been seperated in ignorance or upadhia in anitsh karan/karams.

For jaiagaso like us- good consideration, good intent, honesty/truthfullness, bairaag, prem are must.