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Do Only Khalsa Amritdhari Gursikhs Leave Reincarnation?


Shamshere
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He is Neo

hahaha

Bhai Sahib, if I ever meet you, you better be wearing a black trench coat and black glasses! I'll wear a black fitted suit, tie, ear piece and black glasses. :nono: :lol2:

On a real I think Gurbani tells us that we are living under illusion and under influence of maya when we do not remember Vaheguru and live according to Gurmat (fighting panj kaam krodh lobh moh ahankaar). Just because a naastik doesn't recognize Vaheguru, it doesn't mean Vaheguru isn't there.

Ultimately from a katha I heard, it says a Sikh shouldn't have any desires. No desire of heaven or hell or any other dimension, our goal is just to drop back into Vaheguru like a drop that drops into an ocean because heaven/hell and all the stuff vedic stuff talks about is temporary and false. Muslim and Christian heaven can be experienced here, hell can be experienced in the cycle of reincarnation and here in the world. A GurSikh only meditates on Naam and only goal is to go back to Vaheguru where we originally came from.

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Thanks Bijla Singh for your response. I was not going to respond in this discussion further as readers can decide for themselves. However, I think i do owe you clarification to explain my on going research little more clear.

An experience itself is not a language but when explained in any language, the words are written according to grammar. There is no language that is without its own grammatical rules. Gurbani has kanna, siharis, aunkars etc. which are part of grammar. Just like Gurbani, its viyakaran too is divine and part of revelation.

Vikyaran is required to lay gurbani basic framework. However gurbani arths cannot be confined in vikayaran. Sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale in katha did multiple arths of gurbani many times from sargun context, nirgun context etc. why? Because gurbani is for all and gurbani is perceived differently at different stages some are more sargun in biirthi wise and some are more nirgun in nature as far birthi goes.. so gurbani is for all perceptions both sargun and nirgun perceptions.

Gurbani appeals to mind for it to shed the false consciousness termed as “Ahanbudh” and adopt Bibek Budh which is the true knowledge that gives the ability to discern truth from falsehood. In this state, the world is seen as it is in a real state.

Agreed. Vivek Buddh is used as aid to discriminate truth from flasehood.

Perceiving the world at different levels does not take away its existence.

Partially agreed, when one come out of deep meditation -existence appears in consciousness but its not permanent. Easiest way to explain for understanding purposes and it has worked for me for understanding purposes - when one is going to meditation one is going towards nirgun as flow everything is being folding to nirgun world existence disappears and when it comes out of it- existence appears so it appears/disappears.
Actually every human being naturally goes through three states - jagrath, suopan, sukhopat where existence appears and dis appears so there is nothing weird about it. For eg- in sukhopat avastha - deep sleep there is no perception of world existence it does not exist there .
The point i was making at the earlier posts, at the end of bhramgyani ultimate stage in bedah mukh avastha/turiya tith avastha point close body giving up- sargun perception are all folded back in nirgun, leaving no perception of its existence in its supreme consciousness. So in that regard, existence does not exist in supreme consciousness (nirankar- bhramgyani aap nirankar). Now that does not mean existence literally does not exist , it very much exist on sargun seperate plane but it existence does not exist in nirgun as we already know- in nirgun state there is no existence of world. Jaap sahib talks about nirgun state in detail along with asthpadi 21.

You are simply playing with words. It makes absolutely no sense. Did God create the world? Yes He did. It follows that the world exists regardless of one’s perception. If I assume the world does not exist at one stage of consciousness (which is Vedantic thought rather than Gurmat) then how do you justify the human consciousness and Naam Simran to be real since these very things are part of the world?

God created the world as sargun pasara. You cannot deny world does not exist in nirgun aspect. In sargun state/aspect there is world, in nirgun state/aspect there is no world perception nor existence. However, whats common between two state/aspect
~ Supreme consciousness non dual (Ikongkar) is pervading in both aspects ~
So bhramgyani who has merged in nirgun turiya tith avastha has no perception of world itself..hence world does not exist in nirgun state of supreme consciousness.

If the world is false then all actions and perceptions of humans are false as well. When you say world is not permanent it means it is temporary but existing but it does not follow that it is false. What does false mean?
If you mean non-existence then how can you claim it is not permanent since it doesn’t exist to begin with? The world has to exist and be real for humans to do something of a value to achieve higher spiritual stage. To claim that the world is false is to claim that human actions including Naam Simran are false as well.
Guru Maharaj in shalok nauvan says:
ਜਗ ਰਚਨਾ ਸਭ ਝੂਠ ਹੈ ਜਾਨਿ ਲੇਹੁ ਰੇ ਮੀਤ ॥
ਕਹਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਥਿਰੁ ਨਾ ਰਹੈ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਲੂ ਕੀ ਭੀਤਿ ॥49॥
Guru maharaj talks Jag rachna is jhoot/false. It's illusion what is illusion? maya- trai gun/subtle tendacies of maya. Real is gurbani- shabad naam gyan(turiya) of nirgun. For bhramgyani in deep maha sun samadhi close to body giving up- sargun perceptions end up being mental concepts as bhramgyani has transcendented them so there are no sargun perceptions in them.
Maya and 5 vices it's neither real nor fake its illusory connected with our human consciousness/meta reality/perception. It exist as long as human consciousness perceives it and influence by it, as soon as human consciousness perceives bhramgyan of real self, maya-5 vices tendacies is no where to be found in that human consciousness/perception. Please read this article for more indepth on illusion and turiya avastha which is out of maya-http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart87.htm
Here are more shabad to ponder upon
ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਪੁਰੀ ਮਹਿ ਸਰਪਰ ਮਰਣਾ ॥
eindhr puree mehi sarapar maranaa ||
In the Realm of Indra, death is sure and certain.
8 Gaurhee Guru Arjan Dev
ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪੁਰੀ ਨਿਹਚਲੁ ਨਹੀ ਰਹਣਾ ॥
breham puree nihachal nehee rehanaa ||
The Realm of Brahma shall not remain permanent.
8 Gaurhee Guru Arjan Dev
ਸਿਵ ਪੁਰੀ ਕਾ ਹੋਇਗਾ ਕਾਲਾ ॥
siv puree kaa hoeigaa kaalaa ||
The Realm of Shiva shall also perish.
9 Gaurhee Guru Arjan Dev
ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਮਾਇਆ ਬਿਨਸਿ ਬਿਤਾਲਾ ॥੨॥
thrai gun maaeiaa binas bithaalaa ||2||
The three dispositions, Maya and the demons shall vanish. ||2||
9 Gaurhee Guru Arjan Dev
ਗਿਰਿ ਤਰ ਧਰਣਿ ਗਗਨ ਅਰੁ ਤਾਰੇ ॥
gir thar dhharan gagan ar thaarae ||
The mountains, the trees, the earth, the sky and the stars;
9 Gaurhee Guru Arjan Dev
ਰਵਿ ਸਸਿ ਪਵਣੁ ਪਾਵਕੁ ਨੀਰਾਰੇ ॥
rav sas pavan paavak neeraarae ||
the sun, the moon, the wind, water and fire;
10 Gaurhee Guru Arjan Dev
ਦਿਨਸੁ ਰੈਣਿ ਬਰਤ ਅਰੁ ਭੇਦਾ ॥
dhinas rain barath ar bhaedhaa ||
day and night, fasting days and their determination;
10 Gaurhee Guru Arjan Dev
ਸਾਸਤ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਬਿਨਸਹਿਗੇ ਬੇਦਾ ॥੩॥
saasath sinmrith binasehigae baedhaa ||3||
the Shaastras, the Simritees and the Vedas shall pass away. ||3||
10 Gaurhee Guru Arjan Dev
ਤੀਰਥ ਦੇਵ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਪੋਥੀ ॥
theerathh dhaev dhaehuraa pothhee ||
The sacred shrines of pilgrimage, gods, temples and holy books;
11 Gaurhee Guru Arjan Dev
ਮਾਲਾ ਤਿਲਕੁ ਸੋਚ ਪਾਕ ਹੋਤੀ ॥
maalaa thilak soch paak hothee ||
rosaries, ceremonial tilak marks on the forehead, meditative people, the pure, and the performers of burnt offerings;
11 Gaurhee Guru Arjan Dev
ਧੋਤੀ ਡੰਡਉਤਿ ਪਰਸਾਦਨ ਭੋਗਾ ॥
dhhothee ddanddouth parasaadhan bhogaa ||
wearing loin cloths, bowing in reverence and the enjoyment of sacred foods
11 Gaurhee Guru Arjan Dev
ਗਵਨੁ ਕਰੈਗੋ ਸਗਲੋ ਲੋਗਾ ॥੪॥
gavan karaigo sagalo logaa ||4||
- all these, and all people, shall pass away. ||4||
12 Gaurhee Guru Arjan Dev
ਜਾਤਿ ਵਰਨ ਤੁਰਕ ਅਰੁ ਹਿੰਦੂ ॥
jaath varan thurak ar hindhoo ||
Social classes, races, Muslims and Hindus;
12 Gaurhee Guru Arjan Dev
ਪਸੁ ਪੰਖੀ ਅਨਿਕ ਜੋਨਿ ਜਿੰਦੂ ॥
pas pankhee anik jon jindhoo ||
beasts, birds and the many varieties of beings and creatures;
12 Gaurhee Guru Arjan Dev
ਸਗਲ ਪਾਸਾਰੁ ਦੀਸੈ ਪਾਸਾਰਾ ॥
sagal paasaar dheesai paasaaraa ||
the entire world and the visible universe
12 Gaurhee Guru Arjan Dev
ਬਿਨਸਿ ਜਾਇਗੋ ਸਗਲ ਆਕਾਰਾ ॥੫॥
binas jaaeigo sagal aakaaraa ||5||
- all forms of existence shall pass away. ||5||
Bazigar Jasie Baazi Paie
Nana Roop Bhek Dekhlaie
Sang Utar Thaimo Pasara
Tab Ikaie Ikankara ||
Kavan Roop Dristio Binasio
Kaithe Gayoo Oh Kath Dhayo ||
Jal Tai Utaie Anakh Taranga
Kanakh bhookaie Bahu ranga
Bij Bij Dekho Bahu Parkara
Phul Pakaie Taie Ikankara ||
Sahet Gatava Mein Ek Akash
Ghat Footaie Ohi Pargas ||
And famous one that we discussed long time ago:
ਉਤਪਤਿ ਪਰਲਉ ਸਬਦੇ ਹੋਵੈ ॥ ਸਬਦੇ ਹੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਓਪਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ ॥ (117)
Creation and destruction happen through the Shabad.
Through the Shabad, creation happens again.
Now this one is important one, shabad may be different we all meditate (mool mantar and gurmantar) but contemplative end gyan is same. We cannot confine this shabad above to only outside creation and destruction happening in soo many years as whatever is outside and its inside.
Reconcile shabad -
ਉਤਪਤਿ ਪਰਲਉ ਸਬਦੇ ਹੋਵੈ ॥ ਸਬਦੇ ਹੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਓਪਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ ॥ (117) with
Creation and destruction happen through the Shabad.
Through the Shabad, creation happens again.
ਜੋ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡੇ ਸੋਈ ਪਿੰਡੇ ਜੋ ਖੋਜੈ ਸੋ ਪਾਵੈ ॥
Jo Brehamanddae Soee Pinddae Jo Khojai So Paavai ||
जो ब्रहमंडे सोई पिंडे जो खोजै सो पावै ॥
The One who pervades the Universe also dwells in the body; whoever seeks, finds there.
Whatever is outside is also inside. so we cannot confine shabads talking about outer destruction to only outside everything is inter-connected.

If you mean non-existence then how can you claim it is not permanent since it doesn’t exist to begin with?

How can jag rachna sabh jhoot-false be premanent? Acknowledging the kheel of bazigaar-illusion making something appear and disappear hardly means -permanent. how could that be reality? World just appears and disappears in our consciousness as world is no where to be found in our deep sleep - non existence. In order to be permanent existence- it has to be in all three states equally but it does not exist in deep sleep nor its exist sun samadhi of bhramgyani, you will find various examples of it in gurbani.

Deep meditation and higher experience cannot be termed as non-transcendental. A transcendental experience is beyond measure and words but a non-transcendental is its opposite.

Higher experience is transcedental and deep meditation sun smadhi is non transcendental meditation as there is nothing else to transcendent to. Many shabad surat upasakhs wrap their head around dasam dwara- caught up in expereince and confine akaal in it making that as ultimate reality leaving notions of dualism still behind/subtle sense of individuality denoting they are still subtle forms of dualism left fish in a ocean scenario - see 4th type of sargun mukhti listed in gurbani.

Chaintana refers to being awake and free from haumai at all times. In this state we gursikhs describe, the world is experienced as being temporary and God is actually seen pervading it. None of the gursikhs ever claim that the world ceases to exist.

Perceiving the world at different levels/planes at various sargun state does not mean its ultimate reality of bhramgyan where there is no perception of world eg- maha sun samadhi (turiya avastha).. World cease to exist in its consciousness because consciousness is merged in nirgun and there is no world in nirgun and world is called sargun pasara as per gurbani.

For example, a person like myself sees the world with haumai and I see no God present in it. This is because I have no spiritual elevation. I can only hold truth what Gurbani states but I myself have not experienced it. But if I were to rise above this state, I will experience and see what Gurbani states. Gurbani’s statements will be experienced. But never will the world cease to exist. Only God is its destroyer and its existence is not subject to human perception.
Human goes through world non existence every day in sukhopat avastha- deep sleep. I beleive you see sikhi concept as separate contrast concepts from human perception thats good to explain theology in inter faith sessions but not good in spirituality as gurbani is perceived by human perception and its inner journey.

I am not sure if you meant to say the bold part. Under the influence of maya we see the world as permanent not as illusory. We do not see God in it. Gursikhs see God pervading it and they see Ik Jot. This does not prove that the world does not exist in their perception. God and God pervading something means there has to be an existing world for God to pervade. God cannot pervade something that does not exist.

When gursikhs see god pervading it and they see ik jot in this pasara, they see non dual supreme consciousness - Ikongkar which is never changing- atal in sargun pasara not ikongkar being confined in sargun pasara. There is huge difference.

How can gursikhs say God is present in the world when the world ceases to exist?

Because God is never changing its always there as supreme consciousness awareness bliss but world appears and disappears not only world is subjected to time(shabad parloa four types of destruction parloa/kaal) but world is no where to been seen in our human deep sleep state and bhramgyani maha sun samadhi at turiya avastha.

Your thoughts are imbued in Vedanta of Samkara who was brutally refuted by Vivistadvaita Vedanta.

Gurmat is not raw form of vedanta..Gurmat have - advait positions ( ekta of atma-paratma ) which is maintained and hold in gurbani clearly*. Gurmat blends bhagti, shabad surat, gyan of self aspects/sadhana-nirgun upasana- beautifully and splendidlly ..I would say gurmat is more aligned with sufism, and Vishishatdvaita Vedanta (Qualified Advait) than it is from raw form of vedanta sanchkarcharya.
Gurmat uses bhagti, shabad surat, gyan of self aspects as updesh or sadhana for various different sikhs sitting at various different spiritual development stages.
*Man tu jot saroop hai apna mool painchain
Gyan Parbodh ਪਾਧੜੀ ਛੰਦ ॥
पाधड़ी छंद ॥
PAADHRAI STANZA
ਤ੍ਵ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
त्व प्रसादि ॥
BY THY GRACE
ਦਿਨ ਅਜਬ ਏਕ ਆਤਮਾ ਰਾਮ ॥ ਅਨਭਉ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਨਹਦ ਅਕਾਮ ॥
दिन अजब एक आतमा राम ॥ अनभउ सरूप अनहद अकाम ॥
On a day the curious soul (asked): The infinite and Desire less Lord, the Intuitive Entity.
ਅਨਛਿੱਜ ਤੇਜ ਆਜਾਨ ਬਾਹੁ ॥ ਰਾਜਾਨ ਰਾਜੁ ਸਾਹਾਨ ਸਾਹੁ ॥੧॥੧੨੬॥
अनछि्ज तेज आजान बाहु ॥ राजान राजु साहान साहु ॥१॥१२६॥
Of everlasting Glory and long-armed; the King of kings and Emperor of emperors.1.126.
ਉਚਰਿਓ ਆਤਮਾ ਪਰਾਤਮਾ ਸੰਗ ॥ ਉਤਭੁਜ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਬਿਗਤ ਅਭੰਗ ॥
उचरिओ आतमा परातमा संग ॥ उतभुज सरूप अबिगत अभंग ॥
The soul said to the Higher Soul; the Germinating Entity, Unmanifested and Invincible;
ਇਹ ਕਉਨ ਆਹਿ ਆਤਮਾ ਸਰੂਪ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਅਮਿਤ ਤੇਜ ਅਤਿਭੂਤਿ ਬਿਭੂਤਿ ॥੨॥੧੨੭॥
इह कउन आहि आतमा सरूप ॥ जिह अमित तेज अतिभूति बिभूति ॥२॥१२७॥
What is this Soul Entity? Which hath indelible glory and which is of queer substance."2.127.
ਪਰਾਤਮਾ ਬਾਚ ॥
परातमा बाच ॥
The Higher Soul said:
ਯਹਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਆਹਿ ਆਤਮਾ ਰਾਮ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਅਮਿਤ ਤੇਜਿ ਅਬਿਗਤ ਅਕਾਮ ॥
यहि ब्रहम आहि आतमा राम ॥ जिह अमित तेजि अबिगत अकाम ॥
This Soul is itself Brahman;" Who is of Everlasting Glory and is Unmanisfested and Desireless.
ਜਿਹ ਭੇਦ ਭਰਮ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰਮ ਕਾਲ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਸਤ੍ਰ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਸਰਬਾ ਦਿਆਲ ॥੩॥੧੨੮॥
जिह भेद भरम नहीं करम काल ॥ जिह सत्र मित्र सरबा दिआल ॥३॥१२८॥
Who is indiscriminate, actionless and deathless; Who hath no enemy and friend and is Merciful towards all.3.1228.
ਡੋਬਿਓ ਨ ਡੁਬੈ ਸੋਖਿਓ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਕਟਿਓ ਨ ਕਟੈ ਨ ਬਾਰਿਯੋ ਬਰਾਇ ॥
डोबिओ न डुबै सोखिओ न जाइ ॥ कटिओ न कटै न बारियो बराइ ॥
It is neither drowned nor soaked; It can neither be chopped nor burnt.
ਛਿਜੈ ਨ ਨੈਕ ਸਤ ਸਸਤ੍ਰ ਪਾਤ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਸਤ੍ਰ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਤ ਪਾਤ ॥੪॥੧੨੯॥
छिजै न नैक सत ससत्र पात ॥ जिह सत्र मित्र नहीं जात पात ॥४॥१२९॥
It cannot be assailed by the blow of weapon; It hath neither an enemy nor a friend, neither caste not lineage.4.129.
ਸਤ੍ਰ ਸਹੰਸ ਸਤ ਸਤ ਪ੍ਰਘਾਇ ॥ ਛਿਜੈ ਨ ਨੈਕ ਖੰਡਿਓ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
सत्र सहंस सत सत प्रघाइ ॥ छिजै न नैक खंडिओ न जाइ ॥
By the blow of thousands of enemies, It is neither wasted away nor fragmented.
ਨਹੀ ਜਰੈ ਨੈਕ ਪਾਵਕ ਮੰਝਾਰ ॥ ਬੋਰੈ ਨ ਸਿੰਧ ਸੋਖੈ ਨ ਬਯਾਰ ॥੫॥੧੩੦॥
नही जरै नैक पावक मंझार ॥ बोरै न सिंध सोखै न बयार ॥५॥१३०॥
It is not burnt even in the fire. It is neither drowned in the sea nor soaked by the air.5.13
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hahaha

Bhai Sahib, if I ever meet you, you better be wearing a black trench coat and black glasses! I'll wear a black fitted suit, tie, ear piece and black glasses. :nono: :lol2:

Yaar aaja blue pill kai red pil kahnil? Apna sathi johnny rambo, onlyfive kithaa ? tei mehtab sion? ..uhnuo bhi saade...tuhadi lour pehni menu matrix 4 chh,.. anderson maha maya maha yudh karna :p

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Yaar aaja blue pill kai red pil kahnil? Apna sathi johnny rambo, onlyfive kithaa ? tei mehtab sion? ..uhnuo bhi saade...tuhadi lour pehni menu matrix 4 chh,.. anderson maha maya maha yudh karna :p

Yaar, tenu pata hee ah laal dwaiyi deh menoo! Saadi lineup bardi kaim ah, johnny rambo bhai, sirf panj sahib, te mehtab singh. Anderson gore di kardaange bass!

lol

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And also regarding khands in japji sahib- yes that could be perceived as sargun/psychical at begineer stage, but since we belive in kaival mukhti not other four sargun mukhti or protestant version of khands... khands in japji sahib are ultimately state of mind, almost 90% puratan scholars/literature(bhai vir singh, baba teja singh double ma, garab gajini teeka/sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale katha ultimately talks about khands being state of mind) have agreed to this as gurbani connects directly to our development of our human consciouness state/perceptions etc..Making khands or puriya into seperate reality its for sargun upasakhs ( pandit singh dhaka nirmala among others who were sargun upasakh with their understanding, limit khands to only subtle/physical realm of khands - made them into seperate ultimate reality place), sikhi does not beleive in protestant version of khands of wrathful god whipping day lights out of people where there is assembly/disassembly line towards locked sachkhand and other various khands. Both ultimate sargun interpertation of khands and protestant influence version of khands approach of sachkhand falls potentially into Polytheistic notions/disconnected reality from human spiritual development in the human consciousness and also in clash course with jaap sahib, akaal ustat, gyan parbodh sidhant.

I was thinking about this dilemma for couple of days and don't you think the SachKhand of state of mind is no different than ultimate reality place? What is the outside layer of the reality place. We know that our bodies don't go with us, but we also know Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj said I will show my Darshan to those who keep their hair uncut and are shastardhari. Sant Baba Kartar Singh Ji Khalsa got in a bad accident and refused to have any hair touched on his body. If Sachkhand is a state of mind (Consciousness), then what does it matter if hair stays intact? The uncut hair and Shastardhari are both attributes of the Satgur parsads physical world. What are the attributes of state of mind Conscious being)? Contentment, humility, compassion, contemplation, truth. What is the difference between Contentment that Sant Baba Kartar Singh ji Khalsa showed by not letting a single hair be touched on his body compared to contentment being a state of mind. Only difference is the former can been seen with the physical eyes. State of mind has a form just as the reality place.

ਸਚ ਖੰਡਿ ਵਸੈ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ॥ ang 8

Sri Jap Ji Sahib says Nirankar resides in Sachkhand. If you remember back to our discussion you defined Nirankar as formless, but the state of mind has a form (permanent and non-permanent attributes), just one that can't be seen with physical eyes.

ਵਸੈ = literally means resides in a place

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I was thinking about this dilemma for couple of days and don't you think the SachKhand of state of mind is no different than ultimate reality place? What is the outside layer of the reality place. We know that our bodies don't go with us, but we also know Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj said I will show my Darshan to those who keep their hair uncut and are shastardhari. Sant Baba Kartar Singh Ji Khalsa got in a bad accident and refused to have any hair touched on his body. If Sachkhand is a state of mind (Consciousness), then what does it matter if hair stays intact? The uncut hair and Shastardhari are both attributes of the Satgur parsads physical world. What are the attributes of state of mind Conscious being)? Contentment, humility, compassion, contemplation, truth. What is the difference between Contentment that Sant Baba Kartar Singh ji Khalsa showed by not letting a single hair be touched on his body compared to contentment being a state of mind. Only difference is the former can been seen with the physical eyes. State of mind has a form just as the reality place.

ਸਚ ਖੰਡਿ ਵਸੈ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ॥ ang 8

Sri Jap Ji Sahib says Nirankar resides in Sachkhand. If you remember back to our discussion you defined Nirankar as formless, but the state of mind has a form (permanent and non-permanent attributes), just one that can't be seen with physical eyes.

ਵਸੈ = literally means resides in a place

also to add with daas tuchi budhi bhai sahib has also written a book describing khands to be real places and not merely states of mind :)

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The point is that one cannot and absolutely CANNOT achieve mukti without Guru Ji. Gurbani keeps reiterating this and Bhai Gurdas Ji's Vaar keeps mentioning this. One may live their life by: being good, doing seva, not cutting their hair, avoiding getting entangled in the 5 evils BUT one will NOT acieve mukti without Guru Ji. what may happen by doing good deeds is that one may get another chance in the same life or in another live to take Kande di pahul and accept Guru Granth Sahib Ji as their Guru. Pauri 22 Vaar 40 explains this fact.

When I saw the title of this, I thought of Bhai Dilawar Singh, and would like to ask if any of the people here believe he is not is Sachkhand, as he had haircut, but gave an amazing sacrifice.

It is common misconception amongst Sikhs that Guru Nanak Dev jee did not exist prior to their manifestation in human form in 1469. Guru Nanak Dev jee has been there throughout the 4 jugs. Guru Nanak Dev jee definitely existed before 1469.

This sound interesting, who was Guru Nanak Dev Ji before 1469, and if Guru Ji says, that the True Guru is the Shabad, not his own body, then is Guru Ji lying?

I have read that some bhagats reached Karam Khand and even now dedicated bhagats who do crazy abhiyaas of Naam can reach Karam Khand. However it is only by adopting Guru Nanak Dev jee as Satguru and receiving Gurmat Naam one is able to access Sach Khand.

as above.

as for the Karam Khand, people see other where they see themselves, so whoever wrote this bhagats were in karam khand were only in karam khand themselves.

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