DalbirSingh

Do Moneh Have The Right To Ask Sikh Question Or Talk About Sikhi?

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Does a moneh or trimm singh have the right to ask questions or talk about sikhi? I see people shutdown moneh and trimm singhs all the time on various social networking sites such as twitter, facebook, other sikh forums who reveal themselves to be a moneh.

People tell them to shut their mouth and go keep kesh and that they have no right to even talk about sikhi until they do that. What about for he who is without sin cast the first stone? Shouldn't we be non judgemental of moneh aren't we demonising, alienating, and pushing them away if we do so.

Should we step in and stop someone doing that or is it good we push moneh like that since the gurus rigorously tested singhs as did older singhs to really step up to it. Perhaps if we were more respectful to moneh they would hijack sikhi and start their own manmat things like go on gurdwara stages and promote nightclubbing events.

How about with Sikhs who don't follow our version of Sikhi who might drink a bit of wine time to time to get over depression or eat meat perhaps they suffer from health issues and need extra protein and don't get enough from all the vegetarian sources. Do they deserved to be shut down and told to keep quiet about sikhi? Should they be told not to preach it or get on stages to talk about sikhi? Is sikhi only for men in saintly guises? I remember hearing about nihangs in nanded hazoor sahib refusing to give prasad to people who trimm their beard or their hair, the prasad is only for keshdharis.

Edited by DalbirSingh
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Well, maybe you shouldn't listen to me because I was a monah all my life ! :biggrin2:

If we shun them, then how the hell will they ever embrace sikhi or the Khalsa for that matter ??

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A person can surely speak about Sikhi, ask questions and even answer questions even though he/she has uncut hair.

GS Mann speaks on Sri Dasam Granth extensively. If one of those Sikhs with uncut hair wants to say that uncut hair gives them the right to ONLY speak about Sikhi. Then they should go after GS Mann and the Khalsa Panth will back GS Mann any day of the week.

These communist uncles and their communist children have no knowledge on Gurbani, reject Sikh history, and slander real Sants and scholars of Sikhi. They have small minds that cannot comprehend the vastness of Sikhi.

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I've heard people say only a gursikh can do katha otherwise these "lost" sikhs will do kintu printu "confuse" people.

Have a read of what a guru pyareo said on the fb feed of this post:

Sonya Nayun Im a innocent Sikh..I don't drink smoke or eat meat. I pray whenever I can I work for my money. I do roles at the gurudwara but for my fashion I cut my hair...does that mean I'm not Sikh?

Sonya Nayun Sikh is Sikh mona or not. Sikh with a turban who drink alchol and smoke drugs and eat meat why should they have more rights?

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Yes but ther should like be a day that they can ask . Like only on tuesdays. . . This wil make the spirit strong and the mind .

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Everyone has the right to ask questions. Keeping Kesh does not make you holy, KPS Gill has kept kesh but has killed thousands of Sikhs while Navtej Singh Guggu a Mona Panth Dardi punished Ajit Poohla for his crimes against Sikh Nation.

When Dera clashes happened in Punjab or riots in the UK it was (pendu) moneh who stood up for Sikhi (along with Amrtidharis). It is not right to shun them.

SIkh Panth honoured Sehajdhari Sikh Bhai Kaura Mal who saved many Sikh lives in the 18th century & they are an integral part of Sikh community (they should however seek to become Amritdhari one day).

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UK riots what a time, peoples businesses were destroyed and sikhs who were standing outside protecting their gurdwaras also protected mosques, I remember seeing on live internet feeds muslims talking about converting sikhs then, on one feed mocking sikhs saying they carry knifes and are terrorists. Some muslims came on sangat tv, one muslim told everyone watching over that sikh channel (sangat tv) to the rest of the country to embrace islam and sangat tv didn't edit it out even though they were on a small delay and had time to take it out.

Other muslim guys took the time to flirt with sikh girls standing outside while we had facebook groups with sikh girls flirting with them. It was shameful and then a muslim channel was talking about making special conversion dawah packs to give to sikhs after their fasting ended to convert them. Not to also forget the presenter of the sangat tv who was standing outside the hospital saying allah hu akbar on sangat tv after a prayer ended of one muslim guy dying.

But besides the point we seem to find people saying those who don't keep kesh aren't sikh and anyone who ain't sikh has no right to speak about sikhi and when it comes to questions we also find a sense of individuals being fearful they might cause offence and individuals who respond to any question with anger, especially when they can't answer it.

Edited by DalbirSingh
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I believe that if we want to become Gursikhs than we should start out as not viewing people as Kesh-Cuters any less than those who keep Kesh, One the original Panj Pyare used to be a barber, and also Bhagat Sain, Kesh could make you more holy, however to be enlightened it takes more than just keeping Kesh, everyone who ever converted to Sikhi used to cut their hairs, and if we actually taught the Sehajdhari today maybe they will change as well. Guru Ji did ask as to keep Kesh, I understand that fact completely; keeping Kesh can only be done if someone knows why they are doing it.{Bhagat Singh kept his Kesh after meeting Bhai Rahinder Singh, Bhagat Singh stated that he only kept his Kesh in the first place was because of his family traditions, prior to meeting Bhai Ji he kept his Kesh.} So we should at least give them a chance maybe they'll change, I used to be Sehajdhari because I didn't like to follow blind faith; but learning more about Sikhi and Bhai Taru Singh I have kept my Kesh; even once I kept my Kesh I feel like there is still so much to learn, maybe Waheguru just brings people to the truth at the right time. However, if you want to truly follow Sikhi and follow your Guru, and continue mediation, if you understand why we keep Kesh you probably should do it

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Sikh is always a learner. So no matter where you are in the ladder, always try to improve your Sikhi lifestyle. If one is a monah, it does not mean he should not do Paath. He should do Paath in fact I would say Nitnem and should refrain from eating meat or drinking alcohol(trust me these rehits may seem difficult but they are easy). Sikhi is all about improving yourself. Take it step by step. Myself, my whole family were Monay at one time but thanks to Guru Jee's apaar kirpa, we have all become Amritdharis. For us what got us into Sikhi was to always remember 1984 and listening to the words of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale(both his political speeches and spiritual Kathas). Always do Ardas. Remember Sikhi itself is a gift from Guru Jee. When doing ardas ask for "Sikhi Daan, Rehit Daan" with full concentration and Guru Jee will give you these priceless spiritual gifts.

It is no coincident that you are a Sikh. You have done great karmas in your previous lifetimes that you are now blessed with Sikhi in this lifetime. Now what you do in this lifetime will determine what will happen to you in future. You can waste it like the 7 billion people world wide who just marry, have kids, work from 9-5 or you can make something out of it by living in Grahisti jeevan and becoming a Hukami Sikh. Spend your lifetime in doing Paath, Simran, seva of the Panth. There is no better way to spend this manukhi jeevan our goal in this lifetime should be to have the divine Darshan of Vaheguru without which we cannot escape this endless cycle of life and death.

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UK riots what a time, peoples businesses were destroyed and sikhs who were standing outside protecting their gurdwaras also protected mosques, I remember seeing on live internet feeds muslims talking about converting sikhs then, on one feed mocking sikhs saying they carry knifes and are terrorists. Some muslims came on sangat tv, one muslim told everyone watching over that sikh channel (sangat tv) to the rest of the country to embrace islam and sangat tv didn't edit it out even though they were on a small delay and had time to take it out.

Other muslim guys took the time to flirt with sikh girls standing outside while we had facebook groups with sikh girls flirting with them. It was shameful and then a muslim channel was talking about making special conversion dawah packs to give to sikhs after their fasting ended to convert them. Not to also forget the presenter of the sangat tv who was standing outside the hospital saying allah hu akbar on sangat tv after a prayer ended of one muslim guy dying.

But besides the point we seem to find people saying those who don't keep kesh aren't sikh and anyone who ain't sikh has no right to speak about sikhi and when it comes to questions we also find a sense of individuals being fearful they might cause offence and individuals who respond to any question with anger, especially when they can't answer it.

did dis happen in London or bham? cos I knw if pakis tried to talk 2 Sikh girls in southall dey wuda got smashed up

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Moneh are not Sikhs. 'Rehat bina na sikh kahave' - Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

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Moneh are not Sikhs. 'Rehat bina na sikh kahave' - Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Poodna Ji are you understanding the meaning of Rehat? Is Rehat for you just a set of rules to follow in order to get classified as a Sikh and to be employed to keep the population of Sikhs as small as possible as the RSS would like? Or should we understand the Rehat that Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj was talking about - whereby Rehat means living one's life the correct way. Thus, if we keep kes but drink alcohol or call ourselves Sikhs yet hate on others for the genetic disposition they were born into then clearly there is zero merit in us calling ourselves Sikhs. If we believe in biraderi or believe in a rapist as our spiritual teacher then clearly there's not much point in us outwardly claiming to be Sikh. Dasme Pathshah's point was that in order to consider ourselves Sikh we must live the life matching it spiritually and perform the necassary actions for Sarbat Da Bhala to go with that. Thus, the point upon Rehat is not to sehajdhari's but is applicable to Kesdhari's and indeed Amritdhari's too. You define Sehajdhari's as non-Sikhs meaning that "Sikhs" as defined by yourself and the RSS amount to no more than 5% of eastern Punjab's overall population. So presumably I take it that that your opposition to defining sehajdhari's as non-Sikhs stems from a desire to ensure that Sikhs never have Khalsa Raj? As quite clearly without a demographic base upon which to build Khalsa Raj it is highly unlikely to ever take shape. It's nice to know that you considered Shaheed Bhai Satwant Singh ji, Shaheed Bhai Kehar Singh Ji and Bhai Rajoana Ji as non-Sikhs when they put their lives on the line for the Panth. Instead of classifying sehajdhari's as non-Sikhs or worrying about the one in a thousand Sikhs that might be gay wouldn't it be better if we encouraged sehajdhari's to join us in the battle to obliterate drugs, alcohol, biraderi, illiteracy and abortion as five of the main pillars in our modern Dharam Yudh for which we need as many people as possible to stand shoulder to shoulder in fighting against (including yourself and gay Sikhs).

Edited by isingh1699

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Moneh are not Sikhs. 'Rehat bina na sikh kahave' - Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Should moneh be banned from giving donations to gurdwaras? Guru Nanak talked about the celibate hindus who used to eat from the householders and after eating from them they would curse them saying they would go to hell, guru ji talked about their namak haram or lun haram. If we are going to run gurdwaras from the hands of people who are going to hell shouldn't their donations be refused if that's the view of the sikh kaum?

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Moneh are not Sikhs. 'Rehat bina na sikh kahave' - Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Do you follow and practice everything in the Rehat Maryada?

Edited by Only five
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IN Guru Gobind Singh jis time there were many sehajdhari sikhs or non amaritaree sikhs who helped the panth in their time of need

who knows how much of a sikh anyone is, and who is to judge?

Sikhi is a path and some adopt different lessons at different times in their life - what we need is ekta not more divisions...

When the Khalsa had to live in jungles during mid 1700s , it was the sehajdharis who used to care for the Singhs and feed them , as they could move around undetected.

and without support from the general populous in Punjab the Sikhs would never have risen to the Sikh Raj under Maharajah Runjeet Singh.

IN our kids camps we encourage the sehajdhari sikhs to do seva and take part in doing parchaar - we tell them Sikhi belongs to them and they have to look after it

many Sikhs you see today were once Sehajdhari - give people time and space to grow

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taran0 ji, I humbly submit onto you that your facts are incorrect. Maybe all the sikhs then did not take khande pahul but they sure were all amritdhari (charan pahul shakiya see). To be a sikh of Guru Nanak one has to shak amrit whether in the form charan pahul or khande pahul (given by punj pyare). Unless someone is deluded I think it is very obvious that only khande bata da amrit is available know as Guru Sahib is no longer in human form, so charan pahul is not available now.

Back to the topic. This topic seems abit silly because anyone of any religion, race, creed, amritdhari or non amritdhari can ask about sikhi and also discuss sikhi. If it were a case of a non amritdhari lecturing amritdharis on the values and lifestyle of sikhi then one could object to that, but anyone and everyone has the right to discuss and ask questions sikhi.

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taran0 ji, I humbly submit onto you that your facts are incorrect. Maybe all the sikhs then did not take khande pahul but they sure were all amritdhari (charan pahul shakiya see).

good point .....

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good point .....

taran0 ji, I humbly submit onto you that your facts are incorrect. Maybe all the sikhs then did not take khande pahul but they sure were all amritdhari (charan pahul shakiya see). To be a sikh of Guru Nanak one has to shak amrit whether in the form charan pahul or khande pahul (given by punj pyare). Unless someone is deluded I think it is very obvious that only khande bata da amrit is available know as Guru Sahib is no longer in human form, so charan pahul is not available now.

Back to the topic. This topic seems abit silly because anyone of any religion, race, creed, amritdhari or non amritdhari can ask about sikhi and also discuss sikhi. If it were a case of a non amritdhari lecturing amritdharis on the values and lifestyle of sikhi then one could object to that, but anyone and everyone has the right to discuss and ask questions sikhi.

were punjabi hindu gursewaks disowned as sikhs? Such as the guy who gave hot milk to the chotee shabizaday?

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I guess some of you guys are saying that you guys are better Sikhs than shaheed Harjinder Singh ji Jinda, Dilawar Singh ji, Balwant Singh Rajowana, Depa harenwale, etc. As they were money.

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I guess some of you guys are saying that you guys are better Sikhs than shaheed Harjinder Singh ji Jinda, Dilawar Singh ji, Balwant Singh Rajowana, Depa harenwale, etc. As they were money.

Some will say if they were moneh why did they grow their kesh? Was it so that they could become better sikh? And if so then that means kesh is the difference maker.

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At the end of the day money are future singhs! and the kuom is in need of sevadars

if we start segregating and splitting people then we just end up cutting off our arm and foot - and we need all the help we can get !

just look at rajoana Tv guy - smashed it with his youtube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/RajoanaTV

even the indian newspapers were blown away

NATION IN A STATE: PUNJAB
Looking back in anger

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/looking-back-in-anger/article4188787.ece

Efforts by sections of the Sikh community, especially in the diaspora, to revive interest in what they describe as unsettled injustices of the 1980s — but what the police say is a renewed campaign for Khalistan — are fast drawing in the youth
Harwinder Singh Mander is a bright eyed youth in his twenties, born and raised in England to Sikh parents. He studied law and runs Naujawani.com, a popular internet radio station and internet TV that broadcasts content for a global Sikh audience. He is a blogger too — on the topic of what he calls injustices against the Sikh community in India. His latest post asks Sikhs to sign an online petition to free Kulbir Singh Barapind and Daljit Singh Bittu, arrested by the Punjab police in September for allegedly reviving the outlawed Khalistan Zindabad Force.
He and his friends also support “IPledgeOrange” or “Kesri Lehar” (Orange, the colour of sacrifice, is also that of Sikhism’s pennant), another online campaign launched by the United States-based Sikhs for Justice that petitioned the British Parliament on Monday for a debate on the “atrocities on minorities in India.” The campaign seeks to free Balwant Singh Rajoana, on death row for engineering the bomb blast that killed the Punjab Chief Minister, Beant Singh, and 17 others in 1995.
“IPledgeOrange” also runs Rajoana TV, which features half-hour episodes in English focusing on events connected with the March turmoil in Punjab, when Rajoana’s scheduled execution was stalled following a Statewide protest. A young shorn Sikh boy with a British accent eulogises Rajoana and Jagtar Singh Hawara (also convicted for the same offence) and plays on notions of injustice, and denial of equality and freedom to the Sikhs.
Forget the images of saffron robed jathedars wearing long beards and kirpans uttering full throated cries of “Jo Bole So Nihal” that characterised the Khalistan campaign of the 1980s. These are educated, suave youngsters, most likely to be born and raised in the West. They talk of love, peace and humanity in the same breath that they talk of atrocities against Sikhs. Their heros are icons of the Khalistan movement such as Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, Rajoana or Hawara.
Since February this year, when Sikhs across the world rose against the impending hanging of Rajoana, young Sikhs in the diaspora in particular have started what the police call a cyber war for Khalistan. The propaganda overdrive, through scores of web sites and social media platforms, is aimed at the young and impressionable, feeding them a diet of one-sided stories on the theme of injustice and the government’s failure to protect Sikh rights and interests.
New DGP
The appointment of Sumedh Singh Saini, a much feared police officer for his role in eliminating terrorism in Punjab, as the State director general of police in February coincided with the February stir against Rajoana, and provided much grist to the mill.
Sample this excerpt from a video devoted exclusively to Saini, on Rajoana TV. “Mr. Saini was drafted at that time for a reason; because he is a trained killer, with the blood of thousands of Sikhs on his hands.” Graphic pictures of a Sikh family allegedly slaughtered by Saini, appear in the video. The soft voice on the audio, intones: “This man is in charge of policing my State and my people. Can we expect any justice?”
Police officers admit that law enforcing agencies have so far been unequal in this unfolding arena. “It is vigorous and potent,” says a police officer.
But those behind the cyber propaganda are at pains to stress they are not extremists. “We do not want fighting or bloodshed. Khalistan means different things to different people,” Mr. Mandher told The Hindu in an emailed response, “whether they are in the West or in Punjab.”
Canadian PM’s statement
The Sikh diaspora’s efforts to fuel revival of interest in Sikh issues abroad paid off when Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper said during a visit to India last month that advocating for Khalistan by the Sikh community is not a crime. Harper’s statement is plastered on most websites devoted to Sikh issues.
In March, when Punjab Chief Minister Parkash Singh Badal visited the U.S. to attend a wedding, Sikhs For Justice (SFJ) ambushed him with a federal civil lawsuit alleging that he oversaw the torture of Sikhs in India. A court in Wisconsin issued summons against Badal on the SFJ’s complaint.
Gurpatwant Singh Pannun, who heads SFJ, is seeking to internationalise India’s failure to punish the perpetrators of the 1984 anti-Sikh riots, while handing out death sentences to the Sikhs who reacted in anger at those incidents.
Said Pannun, “This suit will send a strong message to political leaders that they are answerable to the international laws and the courts for their role in gross human rights violations.”
The Punjab government dismissed the radical’s move as a “cheap and desperate publicity stunt” by “marginalised elements” who had a violent communal agenda.
‘Unsettled resentment’
But voices within the Sikh community warn against dismissing the welling anger as the fulminations of a fringe group. “This unsettled resentment [over the 1984 riots] is manifesting itself in demands like opposition to the hanging of former terrorists or to have a memorial for Operation Bluestar.
It reinforces the sentiment that laws are only meant to be used against the Sikhs and not for their benefit,” said H.S. Phoolka, a Supreme Court advocate who has been fighting for justice to the 1984 victims.
Young Sikhs are increasingly drawing comparisons between the treatment meted out to them and the Shiv Sena.
“There have been at least three recorded shootings by the police of unarmed Sikh teenagers who have been peacefully protesting against the government. While in contrast, the “Shiv Sena Group,” which is an anti-minority, fascist, pro Hindu group, has been allowed, and in many situations, provided security protection by the paramilitary and police forces, while making anti-minority speeches and threats against the minority community,” says the Kesri Lehar petition.
All this is not to suggest that an uprising is even remotely on the cards. It is widely acknowledged that the people’s rejection of terrorism was the main reason that Punjab returned from the brink. The new calls to resolve Sikh issues use only democratic methods. Young educated Sikhs living abroad, are beginning to question, in democratic ways, if what happened in Punjab in the 1980s was justified after all. Their questions now are not so much about the old territorial or river waters issues but whether Sikhs have been discriminated against by India’s politico-legal system in the last two decades. What is worrying is that the voices are becoming insistent and even moderate Sikhs find it hard to fault their logic.
Keywords: Nation in a State, Punjab, Sikh, Khalistan Zindabad Force, Balwant Singh Rajoana

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