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Grooming, Sex Slaves And Paedophilia: Which Community Could It Possibly Be I Wonder...

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DailyMail    280

....that's right, you got it one, it's the good old pakistani muslims again, who seem to think they have a monopoly on grooming and paedophilia in the UK.

The religion of peace once again leads the way in grooming vulnerable young women.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-23079649

Oxford grooming sex case: Brothers jailed for life

Two pairs of brothers are among five men jailed for life for their part in a sadistic sex grooming ring which abused children from Oxford.

Mohammed Karrar, 38, of Kames Close, Oxford, will serve at least 20 years after being convicted of 18 offences including child rape and trafficking.

Bassam Karrar, 34, of Hundred Acres Close, Oxford, will serve at least 15 years. Akhtar and Anjum Doghar were also jailed for life. Akhtar Doghar, 32, and Anjum Dogar, 31, of Tawney Street in Oxford, will each serve a minimum term of 17 years. The men were convicted of several counts of of rape, child prostitution and trafficking.

Plied with alcohol

Kamar Jamil, 27, was jailed for life with a minimum term of 12 years.

Jamil, formerly of Aldrich Road, Oxford, was found guilty of five counts of rape, two counts of conspiracy to rape and one count of arranging child prostitution.

Assad Hussain, 32, of Ashurst Way, Oxford, and Zeeshan Ahmed, 28, of Palmer Road, were both jailed for seven years after they were found guilty of two counts of sexual activity with a child.

At the men's trial the court was told how six girls were drugged and suffered sadistic abuse while aged between 11 and 15. The victims were plied with alcohol and drugs before being forced to perform sex acts. Some had also been beaten, burnt and threatened.

Nine men had denied charges including rape, arranging child prostitution and trafficking between 2004 and 2012.

Judge Peter Rook, sentencing at the Old Bailey, praised the courage of the six victims in coming forward, saying the men had blighted the victims' lives and robbed them of their adolescence.

He said: "These six girls [the victims] have shown enormous courage in coming to the Old Bailey to give evidence, knowing they would be accused of lying, knowing they would have to relive their ordeals, knowing they have not been believed in the past."

Judge Rook said he hoped the victims' courage will act as a deterrent to other men but also ensure the appropriate authorities will not fail in future to take action in the face of such activity.

He told Jamil and the Dogar brothers, who were convicted of abusing girl one: "You took her soul. She felt as though it had been ripped out. You put her parents through years of sheer torture."

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LegalSingh    129

^ Their faces should be used in the poster campaign against first-cousin marriages. The lesson of the danger of physical deformities from such marriages will only hit home when people see the actual evidence with their own eyes.

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harj1ts1ngh    57

....that's right, you got it one, it's the good old pakistani muslims again, who seem to think they have a monopoly on grooming and paedophilia in the UK.

The religion of peace once again leads the way in grooming vulnerable young women.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-23079649

Oxford grooming sex case: Brothers jailed for life

Two pairs of brothers are among five men jailed for life for their part in a sadistic sex grooming ring which abused children from Oxford.

Mohammed Karrar, 38, of Kames Close, Oxford, will serve at least 20 years after being convicted of 18 offences including child rape and trafficking.

Bassam Karrar, 34, of Hundred Acres Close, Oxford, will serve at least 15 years. Akhtar and Anjum Doghar were also jailed for life. Akhtar Doghar, 32, and Anjum Dogar, 31, of Tawney Street in Oxford, will each serve a minimum term of 17 years. The men were convicted of several counts of of rape, child prostitution and trafficking.

Plied with alcohol

Kamar Jamil, 27, was jailed for life with a minimum term of 12 years.

Jamil, formerly of Aldrich Road, Oxford, was found guilty of five counts of rape, two counts of conspiracy to rape and one count of arranging child prostitution.

Assad Hussain, 32, of Ashurst Way, Oxford, and Zeeshan Ahmed, 28, of Palmer Road, were both jailed for seven years after they were found guilty of two counts of sexual activity with a child.

At the men's trial the court was told how six girls were drugged and suffered sadistic abuse while aged between 11 and 15. The victims were plied with alcohol and drugs before being forced to perform sex acts. Some had also been beaten, burnt and threatened.

Nine men had denied charges including rape, arranging child prostitution and trafficking between 2004 and 2012.

Judge Peter Rook, sentencing at the Old Bailey, praised the courage of the six victims in coming forward, saying the men had blighted the victims' lives and robbed them of their adolescence.

He said: "These six girls [the victims] have shown enormous courage in coming to the Old Bailey to give evidence, knowing they would be accused of lying, knowing they would have to relive their ordeals, knowing they have not been believed in the past."

Judge Rook said he hoped the victims' courage will act as a deterrent to other men but also ensure the appropriate authorities will not fail in future to take action in the face of such activity.

He told Jamil and the Dogar brothers, who were convicted of abusing girl one: "You took her soul. She felt as though it had been ripped out. You put her parents through years of sheer torture."

This is evil. When I read the subject only one community sprang to mind. The photo's and names confirmed it

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isingh1699    151

they must be all Mirpuris.

Mirpuri criminals are mainly Jatt, Rajput, Gujjar + Arain as these are four largest castes with a Hindu background + so they try even harder to convert non-Muslims.

Jats of Azad Kashmir

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jats of Azad Kashmir

(Urdu: جاٹ مسلمان‎) Total population 541,000 [1] Regions with significant populations 22px-Flag_of_Pakistan.svg.pngPakistan Languages

PunjabiPahariUrduEnglish

Religion

18px-Allah-green.svg.png Islam

The Jats are one of the larger communities found in the Azad Kashmir, making up the majority of the population of Mirpur District, and forming a large part of the populations of Kotli and Bhimber districts. According to the 1901 Census of India conducted by Britain, the total Jat population of the princely state of Kashmir was 148,000, of which 123,000 (83%) were Muslim.[2] Most of them resided is areas that now form Azad Kashmir, although there were few villages in the Jammu and Kathua regions, most of whom immigrated to Pakistan. Little is known about the when the Jat settled in the foothill of the Pir Panjal, but reference was made by the Mughal Emperor Babar of the their presence in his memoirs Babarnama.[3]

Contents [hide]
Distribution[edit]

Jats predominantly reside in the traditional Jat heartlands of Chakswari, Dadyal, the city of Mirpur and the countryside surrounding these areas, which all form part of the Mirpur district which is overwhelmingly Jat. The main Jat villages in or around the city of Mirpur are Ban Khurma, Chitterpury, Balah-Gala, Kalyal, Khambal, Purkhan, Sangot and Thathaal as well as many villages around the Chechian area.

The Mirpuri Jat make up a substantial portion of the British Pakistani community, as many of the Jat villages were flooded by the construction of the Mangla Dam.[4]

Language[edit]

The Kotli, Dadyal and Chakswari Jats speak in a broad Pahari dialect, whilst those of Mirpur City and its immediate surrounds speak in a dialect which resembles the Pothwari spoken in the Jhelum area, while the Bhimber Jats speak in the Pahari dialect influenced by the Punjabi spoken in Gujrat District.

Edited by isingh1699

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NOW COME ON GUYS LETS BE FAIR!

2 of those 7 pictured are AFRICAN Muslims :p .

All Muslims are equally capable of reading the Koran (of which there is only one and according to itself, it is perfect and clear) or copying Mohammad, and seeing that rape and slavery of the Kaffir and going after children is well... QUITE JUSTIFIED. This is particularly clear if you see the situation in Europe where Muslims originating from ALL different Muslim countries are causing trouble. In Australia it's Lebanese that are most well known to have been involved in these kinda rape cases.

Sura 4:3: You can have 4 wives and unlimited concubines/slaves ‘that your right hand possess’.

And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan-girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (the captives and the slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice.

Sura 4:24: Forbidden from sex with a married Muslim women, but you can have sex with female captives and slaves.

Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those (captives and slaves) whom your right hands possess. Thus has Allah ordained for you. All others are lawful, provided you seek (them in marriage) with Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) from your property, desiring chastity, not committing illegal sexual intercourse, so with those of whom you have enjoyed sexual relations, give them their Mahr as prescribed; but if after a Mahr is prescribed, you agree mutually (to give more), there is no sin on you. Surely, Allah is Ever All-Knowing, All-Wise.

Sura 3:110: Says that Muslims are apparently better than anyone else.

You [true believers in Islamic Monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammad SAW and his Sunnah (legal ways, etc.)] are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind; you enjoin Al-Ma'ruf (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam has ordained) and forbid Al-Munkar (polytheism, disbelief and all that Islam has forbidden), and you believe in Allah. And had the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) believed, it would have been better for them; among them are some who have faith, but most of them are Al-Fasiqun (disobedient to Allah - and rebellious against Allah's Command).

Sura 2:90: Allah REALLY hates disbelievers

How bad is that for which they have sold their ownselves, that they should disbelieve in that which Allah has revealed (the Quran), grudging that Allah should reveal of His Grace unto whom He will of His slaves. So they have drawn on themselves wrath upon wrath. And for the disbelievers, there is disgracing torment.

Sura 2:282: A woman is worth half that of a man.

O you who have believed, when you contract a debt for a specified term, write it down. And let a scribe write [it] between you in justice. Let no scribe refuse to write as Allah has taught him. So let him write and let the one who has the obligation dictate. And let him fear Allah , his Lord, and not leave anything out of it. But if the one who has the obligation is of limited understanding or weak or unable to dictate himself, then let his guardian dictate in justice. And bring to witness two witnesses from among your men. And if there are not two men [available], then a man and two women from those whom you accept as witnesses - so that if one of the women errs, then the other can remind her. And let not the witnesses refuse when they are called upon. And do not be [too] weary to write it, whether it is small or large, for its [specified] term. That is more just in the sight of Allah and stronger as evidence and more likely to prevent doubt between you, except when it is an immediate transaction which you conduct among yourselves. For [then] there is no blame upon you if you do not write it. And take witnesses when you conclude a contract.

Sura 4:16: Those who committed adultery with your women can be punished, but if they repent they should be let off with no consequences.

And the two persons (man and woman) among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, punish them both. And if they repent (promise Allah that they will never repeat, i.e. commit illegal sexual intercourse and other similar sins) and do righteous good deeds, leave them alone. Surely, Allah is Ever the One Who accepts repentance, (and He is) Most Merciful.

There are many relevant sura's, especially those denigrating women. This will do for now. Mohammed of course married Aisha when she was 6 years old and had PENETRATIVE (as in we don't fully know what came before) sexual intercourse with her when she was 9.

Anyway, it just so happens that most of the Muslims in England are Pakistani in origin, some of the men who have been arrested for grooming were even born there. That said Pakistan seems to be one of those countries that seems to take Islam to a whole other level, like they ALWAYS have something to prove...

I don't know how these poor girls can ever get over what horrors have been inflicted on them, but I wish them all the best. Hopefully they'll never have to see evil as ugly as this (I mean that literally too) ever again.

Also it's funny... I'm not seeing Sikhs involved in these case...

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DailyMail    280

All we know is that 5 of them are pakistani, 2 are african, and the common denominator that unites them is Islam. For muslims or pakistani's to try to wash their hands off this and claim that "the men are mirpuri", as if Mirpur is somewhere in Argentina or something, is worrying.

Whenever an issue occurs involving pakistani muslims, be it terrorism, paedophilia, grooming, the response is always the same: "don't blame Islam, don't blame pakistani's, don't blame pakistani culture" and instead, so-called community leaders will fall over backwards to blame "western influences on their children". Only last week on a BBC Asian Network debate, a certain Councillor Khan blamed "western culture of drugs/drink and poor social services". Shocking. Especially when one observe that Hindu's, Sikhs, Jews, Afro-Caribbeans etc grow up in with the very same "western culture" and yet they are not engaged in grooming, paedophilia or terrorism. But Pakistani's are.

The Metropolitan Police Service has already warned that more plots will be unearthed and that this is the tip of the ice-berg. But one thing remains an absolute cast-iron fact. Be it paedophila, terrorism, grooming, drugs (Pakistani's in Norway), all roads lead to either Pakistan or men of pakistani-origin living abroad - Mirpur or otherwise.

PS: Don't even get me started on medical disabilities resulting from genetic malformations from first cousin marriages and benefit fraud (handouts from the UK govt for non-British readers).

It's about time British men of Pakistani origin and Pakistani's themselves took ownership of the issue rather then "blaming the west" or "blaming social services".

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isingh1699    151

What do you mean by "common denominator is Islam?" ..Stop being an 49 IQ imbecile all of you guys....

Sikhs look like complete losers....or probably Sikhs ARE complete losers and hence you act like it?

In the case of Christian murderers Jesus didn't give them a full length tutorial in rape or murder. Obviously we all know the man didn't have a virgin birth or resurrection though.

In the case of Hindutva murderers, there isn't really any cow or monkey god that says kill all non-hindu's + attack places of worship because half-elephant Ganesh says this or that.

In the case of Atheism there is no Atheist Holy Book which instructs atheists to kill innocents.

Sadly in the case of these Muslim pedophiles (groomers) you know full well they are following pedophilia in the footsteps of a 54year old Arab who had sex with a 9year old.

In that respect these Pakistani's seem to have less of an age gap between them and their non-Muslim victims. Furthermore, they have only followed part of the Sunnah + Hadiths.

As you know the Holy Quran is explicit in saying that Muslim men can freely have sex with their slavegirls + who their right hands possess (which translates as grooming victims nowadays).

You have to be honest with your conscience Pakistani bro.

Remember you are answerable to none other than Allah (swt).

When Allah(swt) questions u if it was reasonable to believe in a Nabi that at the age of 54 had sex with 9year old child Aisha ... will you be able to honestly say that u genuinely believed "HE" was the final messenger of Allah(swt) despite clear evidence to the contrary?

When Allah(swt) questions u whether it's believable that the Quran is the exact word of Allah(swt) will your conscience answer yes? Is Allah capable of condoning slavemasters?

Despite such damning evidence proving that the Quran was clearly not written by Allah(swt) as presented by Tandoori Singh, are u still adamant that Allah(swt) is the author?

Sincerely, if u don't see the link between these groomers and Islam+Muhammad then we all pray that Allah(swt) guides u the right way because it's sad to see this type of brainwashing done on a fundamentally decent fellow Punjabi. It's truly sad u don't see it.

Edited by isingh1699
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DailyMail    280

isingh1699 - I couldn't have put it better myself.

PakistaniPunjabi,

I mean no bad will towards you personally, but the Pakistani's living in the UK are a malignant bunch. They have consistently underperfomed in British educational institutions for the past 40 years, achieving academic results similar to their east pakistani (yes, read "Bangladeshi") cousins, if not then similar to afro-caribbeans (who grow up mostly without a a father figure in UK households). That is where the British pakistani sits - at that end of the educational strata. What were you saying about an IQ of 49?! Lol! A very low achieving community indeed. It is no wonder that whereas other students aspire to join apprenticeships and further education, pakistanis look for militant training camps in Pakistan to go & fight British/American soldiers - no loyalty to the country that fed them on govt benefits/handouts.

Are you going to say that the British Justice Secretary also has a IQ of 49?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/10065046/Pakistani-community-must-tackle-grooming-gangs-justice-minister-insists.html

Pakistani community must tackle grooming gangs, justice minister insists The Pakistani community in Britain must urgently address the problem of gangs systematically grooming and abusing young white girls, justice minister Damian Green has said.

Just days after seven Asian men were convicted of carrying out crimes of “medieval” depravity against girls as young as 11, in Oxford, Mr Green said it was time to dismiss any vestiges of political correctness around the issue.

The Oxford scandal was the fifth such case since 2010 with gangs of Pakistani men being convicted of similar grooming outrages in Rochdale, Derby, Rotherham and Shropshire.

In an interview with The Daily Telegraph, Mr Green, who is the minister for police and criminal justice, said he was setting up a Home Office led group to help tackle the problem of sexual violence against children.

But he said it was also up to Pakistani community leaders to make it absolutely clear that such behaviour was “100 per cent unacceptable”.

In the Oxford case, six girls were targeted by a gang mainly of Pakistani heritage who showered them with gifts and attention before subjecting them to acts of appalling sexual violence.

The exploitation lasted for five years and only ended when the girls became brave enough to report their abusers to police.

But there is growing concern that wider issue is being brushed under the carpet because the authorities are fearful of being accused of racism.

Mr Green said: “It’s not sadly the first example we have had of organised serious exploitation and abuse involving Pakistani heritage men grooming and abusing white girls

“I hope that what happens is that any last vestiges of political correctness that say, ‘there are some cultural issues to address here’ disappear, because this is criminality, pure and simple.

“It goes without saying that every world religion condemns the exploitation and abuse of children and just as there are huge challenges to the social care system and the police, there are clearly challenges for community leaders to make it absolutely clear that this is 100 per cent unacceptable in any circumstances.”

“I am encouraged that I have heard voices saying that over the last couple of days but I think that has got to be the starting point, that this must not be a cultural issue, this is just criminality and it applies to everyone.”

Mr Green said the new Home Office task force would be aimed at helping those vulnerable to sexual exploitation by building in support across the criminal justice system.

He explained: “This will mean their voices are heard earlier and listened to more carefully. It will build more support into the system and improve systems for identifying those at risk.

“But our prime responsibility is, of course, stopping abuse before it starts. The group will be working to target the organised crime groups that perpetrate the sort of systematic abuse we saw in Oxford.”

He said the group would also look at how social media is used by gangs to groom and abuse the vulnerable.

Mr Green said while it was important to recognise exploitation and sexual abuse was a problem common to all parts of society denying the issue existed in the Pakistani community for cultural reasons was completely wrong.

He said: “It is the case that most cases of child abuse actually involve the white British middle aged men, we have seen terrible examples of Jimmy Savile and others, but it does seem from the evidence that we have seen so far, a particular problem of this organised, systematic year after year grooming and abusing.

“There is clearly more than one example of this within the Pakistani origin community so that itself is a specific problem and everyone particularly the community leaders need to recognise that as a problem we need to address.”

It is clear from the article above that the British govt recognises that this a a widespread and systematic set up within the Pakistani community and that the govt will no longer pander to the left-wing socialists in the name of political correctness or the risk of losing the 'muslim vote', It's time to call a spade a spade, it's time to be straight-forward.

I could go on and accuse you of being a "loser", but I'm not going to. There is only one community that deserves that 'title' and the British govt knows it!

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Mehtab Singh    3,888

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/uk-hindus-sikhs-welcome-mosque-action_859167.html

London: Britain's Hindu and Sikh community leaders have voiced their support for the country's mosque-led initiative to send out a strong message against sexual grooming of children following the conviction and sentencing of seven members of a paedophile ring.

Their statement comes days after imams from nearly 500 mosques across Britain used Friday prayers to highlight how the Quran condemns all forms of sexual indecency, in the wake of seven predominantly Pakistani Muslim men being jailed for a series of child abuse charges last week.

"We welcome last Friday's 'Khutba' sermon by 500 mosques to condemn the sexual grooming of children.... We also welcome the fact that the sermon was delivered in English, aimed to target such confused young men," read a joint statement issued by Hindu Council UK, Network of Sikh Organisations UK and Sikh Media Monitoring Group UK here today.

The groups also highlighted their own concerns around the issue of sexual grooming of young girls, specifically targeted at certain communities.

"Over the last few decades sexual grooming of girls in the Sikh and Hindu communities by males of Pakistani origin has been of serious concern... The attitude of showing disrespect towards non-Muslim girls by a small minority of Muslim men through some confused religious sanction needs to be tackled head on by the mosques," the statement urged.

"We welcome the initiatives now supported by the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) and the Mosques and Imams National Advisory Board to help convey the message to the grassroots that such acts are evil and cannot be condoned in any religion. We congratulate leaders of the UK Muslim community on their timely initiative," it added.

The mosque-led movement in the UK has been organised by the Together Against Grooming (TAG) group and is supported by leading Muslim organisations across the country.

"We have been horrified by the details that have emerged from recent court cases and as Muslims we feel a natural responsibility to condemn and tackle this crime," TAG spokesperson Ansar Ali had said in the lead up to Friday's sermon.

Got to appreciate this move, got to give it to them this one time. They seem to be serious to clean their community's name.

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kullykhalsa    121

what i think people find ridiculous is when the muslim community feel they have been slighted they will raise 1000s of people to walk on the house of parliament, or demonstrate peacefully in a town, you even find regular preachers in town and londons speakers corner

however when there own community recognise a problem because the girls being raped are not "their" girls or muslim girls it is brushed under the carpet. im sorry but the absolute lack of empathy by pakistanis for people not off the same origin is ridiculous.

They continue to use the civil liberties afforded to them by this country but when it comes to helping the police "against" there own community they will not help

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kullykhalsa    121

p.s interesting stats below show that muslims are overrepresented in the prison system 4% of the population but 13.1% of the prison population

(side note sikhs are also overrepresented - on a much smaller scale, Hindus are underrepresented)

Christian 43,176

50.2%

61.3%

Muslim 11,248

13.1%

4.0%

Hindu 456

0.5%

1.5%

Sikh 777

0.9%

0.7%

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isingh1699    151

Do you think these criminals don't know that any sexuality immorality is forbidden in Islam?

But the whole of the non-Muslim world thinks that a 54 year old Prophet having sex with 9year old child Aisha is utterly sexually immoral and wrong as child abuse.

Heck! even consensual out-of-wedlock sex is a grave crime in Islam..and every Muslim knows this.

But the Quran permits Muslim men to freely have sex with slaves + those that their right hands possess (any vulnerable woman they can dominate) that they are not wed to!

Edited by isingh1699

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What do you mean by "common denominator is Islam?" ..Stop being an 49 IQ imbecile all of you guys....

- Mexicans are biggest drug dealers in Americas--Common Denominator? Christianity.

- Different tribes have fought, raped, and murdered hundreds of thousands of each other in Congo...Common Denominator? Christianity.

- Italy, Germany, and other neo-nazi allies murdered millions of people..Common Denominator? Christianity.

- Italians, French, Belgians, Spainards, British, and Germans etc colonized and raped other people...millions of them...common denominator? Christianity.

==========================================

- Right Wing Indians murdered thousands of Sikhs after 1984 debacle...Indians also murdered thousands of Muslims in Gujrat...Common Denominator? Hinduism.

- Indians attacked Golden Temple..and also attacked Babri Mosque..common denominator? Hinduism.

===================================

- Stalin murdered millions of people...

- Chinese did the same..

Common Denominator? Atheism.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now stop being retards. If U.K mirpuris really annoy you..then please go and take it out on them..bashing Islam all the time on this forum for no apparent reason makes Sikhs look like complete losers....or probably Sikhs ARE complete losers and hence you act like it?

Are you STILL here? Playing that SAME EXACT tune? :p

What about the ONGOING genocide taking place in Darfur? Which is Muslim African Arabs trying to wipe out and dominate the native African people.

What about the 1400 years of Muslim conquest resulting in the death and rape of countless millions? (conservative estimates have been at least 270 million deaths)

What about the horrid treatment of anyone who isn't Muslim or THE RIGHT KIND of Muslim in Muslim countries?

Also with regard to your facts...

Nazism had NOTHING to do with Christianity, it was a purely Atheist Ideology. They actively attempted to remove ALL religion including Christianity.

Chinese are not all Atheist, they are MOSTLY Taoist and Buddhist.

The difference is that all these ideologies you mention either...

1. Condemn acts of violence and rape.

2. Aren't currently being used (or misused) to try and justify hatred and violence on any real scale, it's confined to lone nutters. The main reason for colonial activity was greed pure and simple.

3. Are basically dead, such as in the case with Nazism and Communism.

Islam on the other hand is STILL the motivating factor behind so much destruction, as if so many Muslims don't even know what century this is. It is SYSTEMATIC.

I and many others have given you evidence time and again as to how the Koran supports this. Evidence that you fail to refute, all you do is deny, deny, and deny some more.

Keep on embarressing yourself all you want :p .

Got to appreciate this move, got to give it to them this one time. They seem to be serious to clean their community's name.

For once I can agree with PakistaniPunjabi01 that I highly doubt it will come to anything. Listening to the BBC Nihal debate didn't exactly inspire much confidence. This is just lip service as per usual.

There's the obvious mention of the fact that practically everyone in their community knew what was happening and didn't bat an eyelid. There was also a councillor who could barely speak English trying to deny Islam and Pakistani culture had anything to do with it. A simple speech can't fix this level of irrationality.

There are well OVER 1500 Mosques in the UK. So the penetration of this 'message' isn't all that great. Not to mention Muslim women basically DO NOT go to Mosques and are not expected to. There are 55 Mosques in the Leicester area, and apparently only 3 of them even have a separate prayer room for women. There won't be any speakers in those 'second class' rooms I bet. Women are practically out of the loop.

...And there were STILL women blabbing on about how Islam treats women as equals in that BBC debate... The sheer amount of ignorance is incredible and simply stunning...

For comparisons sake there are around 223 Gurdwara's in the UK, all of them with equal prayer rights obviously.

If Muslims DID care even a small fraction of the amount they care about cartoons of Muhammad, and if they WERE even capable of solving their many problems, Muslims would have surely shown it by now. Surely SOME good would have happened after all this time.

We should expect nothing until Islam itself is fixed and that will NEVER happen. Muslims can barely be bothered to even read the Koran, nevermind write a better one.

The ONLY way to fix this situation in my opinion is to come down on it like a ton of bricks. Sikhs should know that better than anyone.

Edited by TandooriSingh

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    • For starters, it seems that any Sikh orgs that do speak out against what's happening in general that may have "some" shared views with those that seem to be not of the liberal/left persuasion is seen as an abomination by left wing Sikhs.  It leads to me to believe that you are clearly on the left of the political spectrum. There is nothing wrong in being on the left of the spectrum. However, the left of the spectrum these days which claim to be tolerant and inclusive except they are very selective as to whom they are tolerant towards. Now with the increase in muslim population has meant an increase in certain crimes such as organised street grooming and terrorism.  Now with these happening more often, people are beginning to find patterns for this. A lot of this rooted in Islamic ideology. The fact the likes of SYUK will speak out against this you don't like. The people who support the left of the political spectrum like the Islamists for some reason and tend to walk on egg shells around them.  However, people on the left of the political spectrum (like yourself I believe) won't think twice about attacking people who want to stand up to the intolerance.  The contradiction I find generally with the left is that they want full rights for gays yet at the same time want full Sharia law for muslims. The irony is that the muslims will attack the gays if given half the chance. Muslims will not show tolerance and the people on the left will not speak out.  If someone not of the left points this out, it is pointed out as hate speech and you are shouted down called islamophobic or racist.  The left want diversity, just not diversity of opinion. In the Communist countries, freedom of speech is not allowed. The left claims to be liberal but act in the same manner of Communist countries. Communism has it's origins in Marxism and I suspect the left are Marxists in disguise. They might not be in power politically but there is cultural subversion going on. It seems that you are clearly influenced by this type of thought. That is why I suggested that you may be a Cultural Marxist.  I provided a link from the Telegraph to show what is happening in universities that has been overwhelmed by leftist though is now doing no platform which means freedom of speech is being curtailed.  This is cultural marxism taking over. However, if it is Islamic hate speech it is accepted. Your stance against SYUK seems to suggest that you are accepting of Islamist hate speech but not of people who would fight against it like Tommy Robinson.  I think the problem Sikhs on left of the political spectrum is that they think Sikhi somehow is the same as this leftist thought. It is not. They are influenced by the left (which is influenced by Marxism ) more so than Sikhi. That is why I called you a Cultural Marxist.  If you feel that is not articulated enough for you I can go on and on and on. The problem with your thought process is that it may eventually lead into a totaliterian system.  Totalitarianism is the antisesis of Sikhi.  
    • Our life is so short. We have so many constraints and chains. Remembering Bhai Sahib's beautiful life accomplishments as a Gursikh.
    • This is what I was referring to... 
    • Avoiding what my brother?  It appears to me that you use such labels as 'cultural marxist' without having a clear definition of what it is.. Please in your own words explain.. What examples have you provided of evidence of my indoctrination?  Using content produced by others just suggests to me that you don't really know what you are talking about... I'm sure you do... But without explicitly articulating your assertion, quite frankly it seems like you are more comfortable in being a sycophant than having your own opinions..  With all due respect  S
    • It's a reply to the other poster. He was mentioning that there are not enough sangat that attends the gurdwara but when we drilled down into the specifics. There are more people in the langar hall than the darbar.
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