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Yes they were + I'm proud that they chose to believe in One God rather than convert like others in Pakistan did

Pakistanis also chose to believe in one God...simple.

Allah (the Arabic name for Moon God) and Muhammad (as the biggest self-disguised "partner" of Allah) count as two Gods not one

C'mon dude u know they were forcibly converted to Islam and the whole world knows it! :lol2:

What whole world knows it? I study religious studies at one of the most prestigious universities of America. We are taught exactly the same thing as I told you. Islam arrived in India through military conflicts..but expanded due to Sufi tradition. You are just saying stuff that you want people to believe. Guess what? The "world" believes our point of view..and not yours :) ....

So the Sikh Monotheists as everyone on this site and history confirms were all offered the choice of death or Islam but somehow your Hindu ancestors as out and out Punjabi polytheists somehow only converted out of their own free will (as the Mughals never persecuted them in your imaginary little fantasy world) and regardless of the racist Jizya mafia tax imposed on them by Islam. Even if you admit some conversion was by the power of the sword, it still means that you are descended from innocent people who were brutally forced to convert to Islam by fear of death. Why you are actually proud of the same people that raped and beheaded the community of your ancestors is down to brainwashing. Jalandhar and Doaba is famous for the brutal oppression of your ancestors and mine.

You say that, yet your name is Arab as a result of the Arab slavemasters. They even think that Arabic is spoken in Heaven! You speak Punjabi today as u were born in Pakistani Punjab. But give the Meccan overlords time and they will have your children or the children's children speaking Arabic as there first language soon enough.

So Pakistani Punjabis will start speaking Arabic? Don't kid yourself.

Don't take it so lightly - that's the future dream of those who seek a return of the Islamic Caliphate run from Mecca

We'll keep on speaking Punjabi and making your jealous b/c Pakistani punjabi is way more richer in dialect than indian punjabi..Pakistani Punjabi has different forms..regional variations..and various sweet and funny accents...Thats why you want us to quit Punjabi and start speaking Arabic.

Its your wish that arises out of jealousy

LOL that's a good way to deflect attention from the reality from the fact that Pakistani Muslim elite wish to destroy all trace of Punjabi language and non-Muslim Punjabi heritage but don't get it twisted we are more than happy for you to speak the language of your ancestors, shame the Pakistani Muslim elite want the eradication of the language of your ancestors. They succeeded in converting your name to an Arab slave name and the last thing left to destroy your links with your past is to wipe out your Punjabi language.

That's the reality bro. More and more peeps are leaving all faiths for western consumerism and Islam is one of the biggest causes of that change.

lol what? Western consumerism isn't a religion. My little brother is a ardent 'consumer'...He just needs all the good gadgets in the market etc...does that make him any less of a Muslim? haha....Westerners are leaving Christianity...and the only Abrahmic faith "growing" in the West is Islam..Mashallah!

But there are more Muslims in the West leaving belief in Islam behind in this western faithless society for atheism/non-religion compared to Westerners suckered inti Islam, so a religion that punishes people with death for leaving Islam will hardly flourish when people finally gain the cultural freedom to leave it worldwide.

Actually, I think that Western Islam is even more 'committed' or "intellectual" than Islam in Muslim countries. Here, Muslims actually study Islam..ask questions..explore the faith..etc..and this makes Islam even stronger Mashallah! Ask your Sikh friends on U.S campuses how active/effective MSA (Muslim Student Organization) isis upholding and spreading the message of Islam throughout university campuses..Even they'll know it :biggrin2:

MSA are nothing but a bunch of joke people who believe that converting an innocent non-Muslim with dawah will result in a reward from Allah. The concept that Allah will reward folks for converting into a man-made religion is just funny. Wait, don't tell me, you're going to say that the words of the Quran were spoken by Allah himself ... shame you have no real proof for such a ridiculously false claim. Muslims and Christians can't even prove that Jesus had a virgin birth like it says in the Quran so why should anybody believe the lies the MSA push?

I agree but Punjabi has no formal status in Pakistan and just like the Arabs wiped out Coptic, Assyrian, Babylonian languages etc the Urdu speaking elite of Pakistan will wipe out your language soon enough. Ironically Urdu is closer to Hindi that Pakistani's supposedly should hate.

The elite of Pakistan is itself punjabi for the most part...but yeah, I know..Urdu is regarded as a "higher" language than Punjabi by many young Pakistanis..I guess since Urdu is a national language...thats why? But Punjabi isn't going anywhere Inshallah....

I really hope your ancestors language survives in Pakistan but the consensus is that the Pakistani elite will enslave you all to Urdu this century.

I agree but that history doesn't change the reality today + in the 21st century that the elite who control Pakistan will turn you into Urdu-only speakers becuase of the thinking that Punjabi is a kaffir language and Urdu is the language of the Muslims

hahahha...no one thinks that Punjabi is a kaffir language. Don't act dumb..

Then why are the Pakistani elite so desperate to kill off Punjabi language in Pakistan - unless they are ashamed of it?

Many of your Pakistani Punjabi friends in the West can speak Urdu but not Punjabi. You are a dying minority as you were born in Pakistan. But Urdu-speaking elite is clearly going to wipe out Punjabi in Pakistan as Punjabi doesn't have any real encouragement from the Pakistani establishment. Even Imran wants that. In fact, Imran wouldn't mind English as an official language of Pakistan so he could marry another white girl.

Imran Khan is the greatest political leader of sub-continent alive today :biggrin2:

He must be a great leader for you to make racist comments about the faces of black African children (which are ugly in his eyes) and for fathering an innocent child with Miss White and leaving the baby and her mother to get by on there own.

Even I speak Urdu..big deal? I speak Urdu with people who are comfortable with Urdu..and I speak Punjabi with people who are comfortable speaking Punjabi...

Bro by the time you are an old man you'll be lucky to get to speak Punjabi to any youth in Pakistan

Btw, Indian Punjabi Sikh girls in my highschool told me that my punjabi is reallllyyyyyyy goood :excited:

Like I said before, we are pleased that you can speak the language of your ancestors. I respect that you being born in Pakistan can speak better Punjabi than many Sikhs outside of Punjab, so as you can see we don't have anything against you on a personal level. What we don't like is the Arab Cultural Empire's ideology that seeks to dominate the World (Islam) and your role as a Punjabi in that on the Arabic Islamic Empire's behalf.

The Saudi's, rich Arabs and wealthy local elites control Islam for purely political purposes pretty transparently and nakedly.

Fr ki hoya? It doesn't change the fact that there is no power structure within Islam.

Of course there is, the Saudi's, the rich Arabs and wealthy local elites are exactly the power structure that Sikhs and others will never surrender to.

Arab rulers hun haram zaday haigay aaa te sada ki kasoor?

That's no fault of yours. But if you push their false ideology of an Arab Empire (disguised as a din) then you become their accessory to murder, rape and enslavement.

So would you allow your daughter to marry a good, honest Sikh dude in the USA? If not, what is it you don't like about Sikhs that believe in one God?

If I like the guy..why not?

Well good on you for being a liberal Muslim. Why not go the whole hog and ditch belief in a man who when he was 54 years old bedded a nine year old child? Surely, even you would not tolerate marrying off your 6 year old daughter with the marriage being sexually consummated when your innocent daughter was only 9 years old. A Prophet who even sold innocent women and children. Why not leave him but join us as a brother to fight against the ideology of such people and work for entire humanity instead?

But there would be alottttttttttttttttttttttttttttt of variables involved. Talking about this now is just waste of time..

Oh i thought there would be a BUT involved somewhere.

LOL, try tell that to the Arabs. To them you are just one of the conquered peoples.

Doesn't matter.

Good that you have the honesty to at least admit what they think of you. Most Pakistani elites won't even admit that.

It still doesn't change the fact that Islam gave equality and dignity to all humans..

The Holy Quran permits slavery. Islam allows man to sell his fellow man for financial gain. The Holy Quran awards 20% of the profits from such slave auctions to Prophet Muhammad. So there is no real equality in Islam and there is no dignity for slavegirls or grooming victims who Allah in the Quran permits Muslim men to freely have sex with (without marrying them). C'mon dude you know the truth!

LOL because Prophet Muhammad mentioned noble lineage as being an important factor to consider in marriage, which is no different to believing in the caste system

Prophet Muhammad (SAW) specifically rejected caste-system.

Prophet Muhammad believed in the system of Slavery and in the importance of noble lineage (which is what the caste system is all about).

Also, since when considering the family-background of your potential spouse became racist?

That's what Hindu's also say and so do Pakistani's from Qureshi and Mughal castes say when they don't give let there daughters wed those descended from Hindu converts they enslaved like yourself.

It happens every where. Would you be willing to marry your daughter in a criminal family?

PakistaniPunjabi I don't think your Arain caste are criminals. Remember 3% of Arains are still Sikh despite the intense persecution of Arain caste by Mughals in Jalandhar Doaba area

Yes I agree so-called upper caste Pakistani like Qureshi, Syeds and Mughals are often racist

lol..who made them "upper caste"? Pakistan is a Muslim country. We don't have caste-system.

Who are you kidding? You know full well that the Mughals and Qureshi's won't let there daughters wed those from a converted backgroud like yourself that they consider inferior.

We have "clans" though -_____- You won't find a Qureshi saying "I'm superior to you b/c I'm Qureshi and not arayin"

So the Indian and Bangladeshi Muslims that complain of discrimination by Qureshi's and Mughals must all be making it up?

...and if he actually says that..people will laugh at him, make fun of him, and probably even bully him if he was at school..

How exactly would they bully the children of the so-called upper castes that control Pakistan?

I agree Pakistan's Army is no match for America's

No army is...

Good that you admit no Muslim nation can stand against America's army

Last time I checked I thought Pakistan's Army war record was Wars fought = 2 and Lost = 2 (a 100% loss ratio)

Thats b/c you checked on wikipedia .. :lol2:

Pakistan Army fought three wars on Western front and didn't lose even one

Tell me more bro, educate all of us on this forum about how Pakistan's invincible Army has never lost a war ...

...Sometimes they had stalemates and sometimes straight victory..

Oh really ... which alternate universe was that in?

The only defeat was political that happened on E.Pakistan front..not the original Pakistan. Pakistan Army is based in W. Pakistan...not in East...

Ok so the Sikhs freeing Muslim Bangladeshi's from the rape, murder and enslavement the suffered from so-called upper caste Pakistani's never happened and General Shabeg Singh and General JJ Singh and General Arora never freed our Bangladeshi brothers and sisters from Pakistani oppression?

Also, not to mention, Air wars, PAF just HAMMERED IAF every time... :biggrin2:

Tell me more, as I'm not Indian, I'm interested to know more ...

Careful you might not wanna admit such support continues today for the Taliban unless Obama finds out

Obama already knows........

True Obama knows where Pakistani Punjabi's stand on anything related to terrorism

Common sense is the biggest ideological threat facing Islam. The more Muslims use it in the free West, the more they will leave Islam. You should join the process and ditch all this pride in the ideology of the very same people that raped, conquered and converted your Punjabi Hindu ancestors

You have no idea of historical Islamic scholarship or Islam's theology etc. Have you ever wondered why Judaism and Christianity just scummed to post-enlightenment secular onslaught while Islam performed really well infront of secular rational onslaught, Mashallah?

How can Islam perform really well? If you think pedophilia, slavery and drinking camel urine show how great Prophet Muhammad was then I think most people in the World with a bit of common sense disagree with you.

Classical Islam is based on enlightenment, rational era..Remember, Islam saw the "golden age" early in his career? Scholars in as early as 8th century questioned Islam, Qur'an, Prophet Muhammad, Islamic Theology etc etc

Whoever, questioned Islam was put to death by Muhammad in his lifetime and the Quran proves this. No matter what excuses you use that slavery and pedophilia were ok 1400 years ago they won't wash with anybody in the 21st century who opposes the abuse of innocent children or slavery.

...So Islam has already seen all of it and Mashallah is geared to survive in the harshest of environments

The onsluaght of common sense against slavery and pedophilia is yet to follow.

Islam is only protected at the moment by George W. Bush's big lie when he evacuated the Bin Laden's out of Texas that "Islam is a religion of peace" LOL

..that is why it is THE most successful religion of human history.

True that Islam has been responsible for a greater number of murders, rapes, enslavements in the history of humanity.

Show me another faith that got 2.2 billion followers in first 1450 years of its existence and became a global religion and spreaded everywhere? Only Islam can do that..Mashallah!

Show me any other religion based upon the sayings of a man who at the age of 54 sexually consummated his marriage with 9 year old wife Aisha, who personally sold women and children into slavery and who claimed his own words were the words of Almighty Allah? The more murders, rapes and enslavements a religion does the more it grows. It doesn't mean it's the truth!

So this argument of common sense blah blah is weak.. Do you know that the field of "Qur'anic Textual Criticism" arose in 8th-9th century? Scholars, theologians, rational skepticals etc just teared through Islam..asking questions after questions..questioning everything..doubting every aspect of Islam...and hence the Islamic Scholarship arose. The base of Islam is VERY strong Mashallah..it has already faced the 'music' and came through it...

They are so confident that Islam is the truth is that they have to kill these people for leaving Islam

Other religions just failed.

At least other religions like Sikhi that you class as failures did not murder hundred of millions of innocent or rape innocent women and sell children into slavery, although Christianity and Islam are probably both worthy of 1st prize for pure evil

While Islam swepts through the world globally Mashallah :biggrin2:

The time for conversion by the sword, pedophilia and slavery to sweep through the World is coming to an end and slowly the weak will fight back.

Intresting how you say that with so much pride despite being an American citizen. But Americans are getting wise that this is how many Pakistani's secretly think inside despite not saying it out aloud when trying to get that green card.

lol...I didn't say this with pride.

Don't worry bro you have your green card already. Even if you are proud at how Pakistan's ISI outfoxed America you can't be sent back to Pakistani Punjab

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Bechara pakistanipunjabi :( ......... All jumped on single person hahahaha......

Well few weeks back I was posting against muslims n people jumped on me n were busy teaching humanity....now they r busy collecting evidences against muslims........

The difference is I m blunt n rude to speak n others keep patience n r polite while speaking......

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Bechara pakistanipunjabi :( ......... All jumped on single person hahahaha......

Well few weeks back I was posting against muslims n people jumped on me n were busy teaching humanity....now they r busy collecting evidences against muslims........

The difference is I m blunt n rude to speak n others keep patience n r polite while speaking......

Free speech is important. Don't be bullied into submission sister!

Exchange of ideas can never be wrong. It humbles, reaffirms beliefs/opinions, readdresses beliefs/opinions and allows for progress.

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I have a question for you. I've lived in the Middle East as well as in the West. Tell me something, you guys don't allow non-Muslims to have their places of worship in your Islamic lands, but when you come abroad to the West, you want to have a mosque in every street. Well its amazing, I have no problems with mosques in every street, but I would like to see that reciprocated too. I would like to see non-Muslim places of worship in the Middle East also...

Mehtab, tusi banday kam kam de lagday ho...Chalo tuhaday naal baat krtay hain :biggrin2: Wo ISingh kab se chawlain hi mari ja raha hai....

You CAN built places of worship in Middle-East..the only country where its not allowed is KSA. UAE, Bahrain, Oman etc all have Guru Dwaras, Churches, Temples etc...

Saudis are family monopoly..what can I say? You can't even build mosques in KSA..forget about other things. Only Mosques that are build in KSA for Friday prayers are "approved" by the government (Which is one family lol)...

Don't compare West with Middle-East..its insulting to West.

Also, Muslims don't build mosque in every street in West...There are only some 2000+ mosques in United States...

Firstly, if it spread through Sufism, why are the same Sufis today getting bombed and killed? Why is the same Sufism regarded as unIslamic when it is infact responsible for the spread of Islam?

Oh parawa who is killing them? Muslims? No. Talibans/Al Qaeda? Yes. Talibans/Al Qaeda don't only kill Sufis but every other Muslim. Shia, Sunni, Barelwi, Sufi etc..you just name it. So wrong example. Sufism is part of classical Islam. Its was called "tassawuf" in Arabic...It was there right from the start...

b/

I am not very much knowledgeable about the history of Islam before it came to India, but all those historians cannot be wrong. Sahib Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee Maharaj was martyred (anniversary on June 12th next week) by the Mughals who were (maybe not practicing/devout) Muslims. Same was for Sahib Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Jee Maharaj, same was for Chhote Sahibzaade and scores of other GurSikhs. We Sikhs don't need to rely on ANY other piece of info or historical document. Our history is written in the blood of our martyrs, and guess who shed that blood, yes, Muslims! Back in the days it was Hindus who betrayed us and Muslims who killed us. Today its Hindus doing both (thanks to some traitors in beard-turban as well), but that doesn't negate the fact about what happened to us in history. It was ALWAYS the blade of Islam's sword! You may have a boatloads worth of what you like to look upon as evidence from history or whatever other subject. Good for you! For us, the scenes of the above mentioned shaheediyaan are more than enough to make us choose the right path. Sanu hor koi navi kahaaniyaan sunoun da faida nai veeray, tuhade varge kaee mittar es forum te kaee vaari aaye te kannaan nu hath laake tur gaye :)

Tuhanu stories koi nai suna raiya....I'm just stating facts. Majority of Muslims in sub-continent today are Muslims due to Sufis and not b/c some Mughal soldier showed up infront of their door and 'forcefully' converted them..No one is denying the military aspect of Islamic spread..but majority of followers weren't 'forced' to convert but converted to Sufi Saints. This is just pure, recorded history...Again, no one is denying the military aspect of Islam in India that you wrote about...

Tusi sadde ya hor kisi bey'kasoor de rasste ch naa aao, te sanu vese vi koi shaunk nai tuhade rasste ch aun da. What do you say? Deal?

Mein ne ksi de rasty ch v nahi aya..Oh tuhaday pagal kutay hi menu pay gaye c bgair ksi wajah tu..oh ta baad ch menu lokan ne dasya k bai fikar na karo, aey loki (people like Proactive etc) hate on Islam always and always start bashing muslims whenever they come in this forum. Is liye ja k "deal" onha naal karo jina nu masla haiga wa..mein te kadi gal v nhi kiti c Islam de is forum ch but oh pagal kutiyan wargun ap hi pai gaye menu :ohno:

Even in this thread, my first comments were about how Sikh youth acts gangster in my area..lakin dusray posters de reply di wajah tu thread ho pasay nikal gaya..te mazay ki gal dekho..hun admins ne thread seperate kr k naa rakh dita aey " Discussing Islam and Pakistan- PakistaniPunjabi posts" ... :biggrin2: Aeh te aida represent kr raye aa k bai Islam te Pakistan di gal mein shuru kiti c :nono:

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Bechara pakistanipunjabi :( ......... All jumped on single person hahahaha......

Well few weeks back I was posting against muslims n people jumped on me n were busy teaching humanity....now they r busy collecting evidences against muslims........

The difference is I m blunt n rude to speak n others keep patience n r polite while speaking......

Oye tu kuri aan? :blink2:

Sharam kr la thori jayi kuriye...aeho kam changay lagday tenu krday hoye? ... Dasdi dekh kidan pride naal k " When I was posting against Muslims" blah blah...bara changa kam kita Muslayan nu galan kad k .... huh! :stupidme:

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