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Gurpreet14

wives of Pitaji

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I used to wonder the same thing but then I thought we should not dissect the past with our modern victorian influenced values. Back then having more than one wife was considered normal. Not just Muslims, but it was considered normal for even Hindus and Sikhs. It is only when victorian christian values began to influence Indians that these things began to be frowned upon. Even before partition, having more than one wife was acceptable in Indian society. For example my great grand father had 2 wives, I have a close relative whose grand father had 2 wives, another had 3. It was usually people who had some influence or status in society that did this.

Today's thinking, one would think more than one wife = Kaam. But that was not it, back then there were multiple reasons for this practice.

-It was a way to forge alliances with influential families to which the daughters belonged. Aristocratic people or Kings did this to increase there influence.

-To protect the honour the girl's family. For example, say if one day a father comes for the rishta of his daughter to a man(who is already married), if the man refuses, then it would be very difficult for that father to find a suitable rishta for his rejected daughter in society. That is the reason why some our Gurus married more than once. It was to keep the izzat of the girl's family.

-Another reason is to give refuge to an abandoned woman who has no one left. Many people did this during partition on both sides of the border For example, a relative of mine whose grand father had two wives. The second wife was a Muslim woman whose entire family was killed during partition, she had no one left to go to. She was also raped. My relative's grand father saw her sad condition(and he did not rape her FYI) went to her and asked her if she would be interested in marriage to which she agreed.

-During war. During the olden times, when Sikhs were at war with Muslims, it was very common for a Sikh male to die young. There were more women than than men. As a result it was also common to marry more than once, especially widows.

Edited by Jonny101
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Gurpreet ji......so what if waheguru ji........you don't get proofs to satisfy yourself....would you stop loving Guru ji????????....we r nobody to judge that...just a self analytical question,,,,,,

and you should not compare Guru ji to any Pir who may have 100 wives.......if peer comes to you....ask him first he should sacrifice his family and followers for others,,,,then come to you to get answer ....

Gurpreet ji....you r on sikhi path...and many people are waiting for you to get confused and leave this path......10ve Guru sahib de bachan ne ...sikh de mann vich shanka kade nahin auni chahidi...niki jehi shanka guru to door kar dindi hai te janma janma de faasle pa dindi hai.....I am not saying don't ask but the way your are asking answers with proofs...ik sikh nu soba ni dinda,,,,

on anwer to your question ...you should listen t o Giani Thakur singh ji...as a memeber mentioned above.....I would suggest you listen to all of his kathas,,,,,abundance gyan from a gursikh who you can rely on......specially to "Mata Sahib Kaur" Katha(at least part 1) which tells the situation how Mata ji becomes Guru Mehal..........same situations like mata ji's became Guru mehal of Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib ji.......and to get all the info and gyaan you "big time" need to listen to below......yes all of them..........

http://www.sikhsangeet.com/artistpg163-Guriqbal-Singh-(Gurdwara-Mata-Kaulan-Amritsar-Wale).html

http://www.sikhsangeet.com/artistpg85-Giani-Thakur-Singh-(Patiala-Wale-Damdami-Taksal).html

99% of your current or waiting to be asked questions will be answered here........I am asking this only because I think you r just in your teens...and have access to no other source of getting sangat than here........both of these gursikhs are true parcharaaks and chardikala sikhs........

All mata ji's were brahmgyani/mukt roohan who wanted to be with Guru sahib not only in sachkhand but on earth as well.........the outer apperance doesn;t matter to them.....all mata ji's were accepted by Guru ji's parents because of their and their parents shardha and love for Guru ji.....but in different situations....actually the parents of all mata ji's had already from their heart and mind submitted their daughters to Guru sahiban even without seeking Guru ji's permission and Guru sahiban couln't deny the Gursikhs because of their innocent and true faith and love ...so listen to the kathas above.....

and it is really shameful for us to comment and debate on Guru sahib and Guru mehal's relation.....and we call ourselves "sikh"...shame on us

Leh Shame kada..... its not shame its "Saada Haq" dear :D its our right to know everything about our Dad

Actually some1 on another thread touched this topic.... the discussion should not go out of topic thats y I started this thread...

I just wanted to know if anyone is having any proof regarding what they say about dad.... :)

I just wanted to have that - I think i am little straight forward thats y people take this is another way... I use to listen to Maskin ji's katha.... Yup i access internet more for details regarding sikhi but i do googling more as compared to this site.....

Its like i read from there and if i have doubts i post here.... :) n i think this forum is made to have discussion but unfortunately people start blaming...

I am in my early twenties not a teenager dear so i think 80% i am capable to judging whatz right n whatz not. :)

Hun ede ch shame wali ki gal.... U mean to say i should go from Gurdwara to Gurdwara from book to book to search for evidence regarding whats was the truth...when i know people can help me here.

ONE THINK - THE DAY U PEOPLE WILL SEE ME WRITING THE NAME OF MY DAD RATHER THEN "DAD" THAT DAY I WILL WELCOME U ALL - WHO SAYS I DONT TRUST HIM OR I DONT LUV HIM :) OR I QUESTION HIM.

I AM NOT AMONG THOSE WHO JUST DWELL IF THEY DON'T GET SATISFIED WITH THEIR GOD "MY FAITH IS NOT SO WEAK".... NOR I WILL LEAVE HIM. N IF I SAY I WILL NOT THAT MEANS I WILL NOT :)

Then also if i really hurt anyone's feeling then "I AM SORRY" :respect: :respect:

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^^

waheguru ji..................just couple of links provided to you to gather info.........from reliable sources.......didn't ask you to go gurdwara to gurdwara.....

Akaal purkh/Gurus/spirituality are above logic/science/proof......

short cuts are usually dangerous.......anyways you follow your way.....

Edited by tuhintuhin
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I used to wonder the same thing but then I thought we should not dissect the past with our modern victorian influenced values. Back then having more than one wife was considered normal. Not just Muslims, but it was considered normal for even Hindus and Sikhs. It is only when victorian christian values began to influence Indians that these things began to be frowned upon. Even before partition, having more than one wife was acceptable in Indian society. For example my great grand father had 2 wives, I have a close relative whose grand father had 2 wives, another had 3. It was usually people who had some influence or status in society that did this.

Today's thinking, one would think more than one wife = Kaam. But that was not it, back then there were multiple reasons for this practice.

-It was a way for forge alliances with influential families to which the daughters belonged. Aristocratic people or Kings did this to increase there influence.

-To protect the honour the girl's family. For example, say if one day a father comes for the rishta of his daughter to a man(who is already married), if the man refuses, then it would be very difficult for that father to find a suitable rishta for his rejected girl in society. That is the reason why some our Gurus married more than once. It was to keep the izzat of the girl's family.

-Another reason is to give refuge to an abandoned woman who has no one left. Many people did this during partition on both sides of the brother For example, a relative of mine whose grand father had two wives. The second wife was a Muslim woman whose entire family was killed during partition, she had no one left to go to. She was also raped. My relative's grand father saw her sad condition(and he did not rape her FYI) went to her and asked her if she would be interested in marriage to which she agreed.

-During war. During the olden times, when Sikhs were at war with Muslims, it was very common for a Sikh male to die young. There were more women than than men. As a result it was also common to marry more than once, especially widows.

Thanks Ya :D Thanks for Info this is wat i was looking for ....... thanks for keeping patience and making me understand...

Now i would have some words to speak when anyone will ask me y my dad had 3 wives :)

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lol, so now we need your permission?

Yes veerji.... u need to :p This is my thread... Mera naa likhya :p

just kidding... :D u know it how much i luv n respect u... :)

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Hi All,

I want to know whats the fact behind dad's wives.... Y he was married with 3.....when he has made rehet to be with 1...for the khalsa panth.

I have some knowledge but I need some genuine one with proof....

Sangat g if u can prove ur point correct then only I would expect ur replies if u cant plz dont respond.....

Admin I know we have discussed it before but I just need concerte proof.......

Hi Gurpreet.

Is this why you have little time to learn kirtan?

And who said Guru Ji made Rehat to be with 1 only? Can you prove that to me?

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Thanks Ya :D Thanks for Info this is wat i was looking for ....... thanks for keeping patience and making me understand...

Now i would have some words to speak when anyone will ask me y my dad had 3 wives :)

I still say this is not appropriate answer according to sikhi.............

u are looking for shot cuts.......no body gonna give u answer that way.......

one veerji said ......read suraj parkash granth.........or listen to giani thakur singh ji katha ...........

n i bet u .....u'll get ur answers ..............

it was more then above reason........ maharaj could have protect girls many other ways ......

i've listen to this part of giani ji katha and he explained it beautifully....its reason, senario and how maraj kept dem....its just beautiful katha

even when a good katha vachak do katha on this phase during suraj parkash katha ...they take 1 or 2 good days to explain this......and u want answer in one minute

and also they dont go around gristh jiewan as u think...........all these atmas were so pure and had bhagti of so many years.............

Edited by Pappi9
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Hi Gurpreet.

Is this why you have little time to learn kirtan?

And who said Guru Ji made Rehat to be with 1 only? Can you prove that to me?

Oho....i go to one aunty's home to learn shabad and aaj mai sikhya "Sun Sajjan Preetam mereya" :D easy c :D Oh wadiya sikhande.... jaldi jaldi sikhna mai

if tomorrow i die... then Dad will ask me to recite shabad there in Sky then what will i do ? :(

n ur proof - One from 52 hukamnama - Par istree, ma bhain, dhee bhain, kar jaananee. Par istree da sang nahee karnaa|

Other than your wedded wife, consider all women as your mothers and sisters. Do not indulge in carnal marital relationships with them. :D

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Faisla ki hoya.

Guru ji married twice or thrice.

keda faisla g... ethe ena na bus ni chal reha... je mai samne hundi te..... mainu jaan to hi maar dende :p :P :omg:

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n ur proof - One from 52 hukamnama - Par istree, ma bhain, dhee bhain, kar jaananee. Par istree da sang nahee karnaa

Par istree is not what you have translated it as. Par istree means any woman who is not your wives. Singulars and plurals do not come into it.

You can read gurmukhi yes?

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Great post by Jonny veer. Another thing I've heard is that the parents of Mata Sahib Kaur ji had promised their daughter to Guru Sahib and initially Guru Sahib had refused and only had a spiritual relationship and made her the mother of the Khalsa Panth.

I've heard both that Mata Jeeto was named Mata Sundri after she was married. Either way, it doesn't matter and doesn't change a thing.

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Par istree is not what you have translated it as. Par istree means any woman who is not your wives. Singulars and plurals do not come into it.

You can read gurmukhi yes?

from here i pasted - i can read gurmukhi but i am very slow in it.... beta :)

  1. "Dharam dee kirat karnee|

    Make a living doing honest work.

  2. Dasvand denaa|

    Donate a tenth share of your profits.

  3. Gurbanee kantth karnee|

    Learn Gurbani by heart.

  4. Amrit velae utthnaa|

    Arise during Amritvela.

  5. Sikh sevak dee sevaa ruchee naal karnee|

    Devotedly serve the Sikh who serves others.

  6. Gurbanee de arth Sikh vidhvanaa tuo parrhnae|

    Study the essence of Gurbani with learned Sikhs.

  7. Panj Kakaar dee rehit drirh kar rukhnee|

    Follow the discipline of the 5 K's strictly. Adhere resolutely to the five articles of faith.

  8. Shabad da abhihas karnaa|

    Apply the sacred hymns to life in practice.

  9. Sat Saroop Satgur daa dhian dharnaa|

    Contemplate and assimilate the beautiful truth of the True Enlightener.

  10. Guru Granth Sahib Jee noo Guru mananaa|

    Believe in and accept Guru Granth Sahib Ji as the Guide to enlightenment.

  11. Kaarjaan dae arambh vich ardaas karnee|

    When undertaking any task, first perform the prayer of ardas.

  12. Jaman, maran, ja viah mokae jup da paatth kar tihaaval (Karaah Parsaad) kar anand sahib dia punj paurian, ardaas, pratham panj pyaariaan atae hazooree granthee noo vartaa kae oprunth sangat noo vartaaouna|

    For birth naming, funeral, or marriage ceremonies or devotional reading paath, recite Japji Sahib while making Karah Prashad, perform five verses of Anand Sahib, and ardaas, and then distribute Karah Prashad to the Panj Pyare, attending Granthi, and then to thesangat gathered for worship.

  13. Jab tak Karaah Parshaad vartadaa rahae sadh sangat addol batthee rahae|

    Until Karaah Parshaad has been served to everyone, the congregation ought to be still and remain seated.

  14. Anand viah binaa grahist nahee karnaa|

    Without Anand marriage ceremony carnal relations should not occur.

  15. Par istree, ma bhain, dhee bhain, kar jaananee. Par istree da sang nahee karnaa|

    Other than your wedded wife, consider all women as your mothers and sisters. Do not indulge in carnal marital relationships with them.

  16. Istree da mooh nahee phitkaarnaa|

    Do not subject your wife to cursing or verbal abuse.

  17. Jagat jootth tambaakoo bikhiaa da tiaag karnaa|

    Discard worldly ways, falsehoods, and poisonous tobacco.

  18. Rehitvaan atae naam jupan vaalae gursikhaa dee sangat karnee|

    Make companions of Gursikhs who follow the Rehit and recite the Divine Name.

  19. Kum karan vich daridar nahee karnaa|

    Work hard and don't be lazy.

  20. Gurbanee dee kathaa tae keertan roaz sunanaa atae karnaa|

    Take part in listening to Kirtan and discussions of the essence of Gurbani every day.

  21. Kisae dee ninda, chugalee, atae eirkhaa nahee karnee|

    Do not gossip nor slander, or be spiteful to anyone.

  22. Dhan, javaanee, tae kul jaat da abhiman naee karnaa (Nanak daadak tahe duae goath. Saak guroo Sikhan sang hoath)|

    Do not be proud of riches, youthfulness or lineage. (Regardless of maternal and paternal caste or heritage, all of the Guru's Sikhs are siblings of one family.)

  23. Mat uchee tae suchee rakhnee|

    Maintain a high standard of purity in religious discipline.

  24. Shubh karman tao kadae naa ttarnaa|

    Do not avoid performing virtuous acts.

  25. Budh bal da daataa vaheguroo noo jaananaa|

    Appreciate intellect and power as gifts of the all knowing wondrous Enlightener.

  26. Sugandh (kasam sahu) dae kar itbaar janaaoun vaalae tae yakeen nahee karnaa|

    Have no faith in oaths sworn by one attempting to convince another of sincerity.

  27. Sutantar vicharna. Raaj Kaaj dian kamaan tae doosrae mutaa dia purshaan noo huk nahee daenaa|

    Maintain independent rule. In the affairs of governing, do not give the power of religious authority to those of other faiths.

  28. Raajnitee parhnee|

    Study and learn about governmental policies.

  29. Dushman naal saam, daam, bhaed, aadiak, upaa vartnae ate uprant udh karnaa|

    When dealing with enemies, practice diplomacy, employ a variety of tactics, and exhaust all techniques before engaging in warfare.

  30. Shaster vidyaa atae ghorhae di savaari da abhiaas karnaa|

    Train in the skills of weaponry and horsemanship.

  31. Doosrae mataa dae pustak, vidyaa parhnee. Pur bhrosaa drirh Gurbanee, Akaal Purakh tae karnaa|

    Study the books and beliefs of other faiths. But maintain trust in Gurbani and Akal Purakh [undying divine personification].

  32. Guroopdaesaa noo dhaaran karnaa|

    Follow the Guru teachings.

  33. Raheraas da paath kar kharae ho kae ardaas karnee|

    After reciting Rehras [evening prayers], stand up and perform Ardas.

  34. Saun valae sohilaa atae 'paun guru pani pita...' salok parhnaa|

    Recite the late evening prayer Sohila and the verse "Pavan guru pani pita..." before sleeping.

  35. Dastaar binaa nahee rehnaa|

    Never be without the turban, wear it always.

  36. Singhaa da adhaa naam nahee bulaunaa|

    Address a Singh by their entire name including Singh [or Kaur], do not shorten it by half or call them nicknames.

  37. Sharaab nai saevanee|

    Do not indulge in drinking alcoholic beverages.

  38. Sir munae noo kanaiaa nahee daenee. Uos ghar daeve jithae Akal Purukh dee sikhee ha, jo karza-ai naa hovae, bhalae subhaa da hovae, bibaekee atae gyanvaan hovae|

    Do not given a daughter's hand in marriage to a shaven one. Give her to a household where the Undying divine personification Akal purakh and tenets of Sikhism are respected, to household without debt, of a pleasing nature, which is disciplined and educated.

  39. Subh kaaraj Gurbanee anusaar karnae|

    Maintain all business affairs in accordance with scripture.

  40. Chugalee kar kisae da kam nahee vigaarnaa|

    Do not cause ruin by gossiping about other's business.

  41. Kaurha bachan nahee kahinaa|

    Do not speak in bitterness.

  42. Darshan yaatraa gurdwaaraa dee hee karnee|

    Make pilgrimages only for seeing Gurdwaras.

  43. Bachan karkae paalnaa|

    Keep all promises made.

  44. Pardaesee, lorvaan, dukhee, apung manukh dee yataahshkat seva karnee|

    Do as much possible to serve and aid foreigners, those in need, or in trouble.

  45. Putaree da dhan bikh jananaa|

    Realize that considering a daughter as property is as poison.

  46. Dikhaavae da Sikh nahee banana|

    Do not act a Sikh outwardly only for show.

  47. Sikhi kesaa-suaasa sang nibhaaounee|

    Live and die a Sikh with hair intact and unshorn.

  48. Chori, yaari, tthugi, dhokaa, dagaa bahee karnaa|

    Abstain from thievery, adultery, cheating, deception, swindling and pillaging.

  49. Sikh da itbaar karnaa|

    Have confidence in a Sikh.

  50. Jhutthi gavaahee nahee daenee|

    Do not make false statements.

  51. Dhroh nahee karnaa|

    Do not participate in fraud.

  52. Langar Parshaad ik ras vartaaunaa|

    Serve langar and prashad with impartiality."

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I have read Ganda Singh Sri GurSobha at the end of the book it is mentioned Sahabzadda Ajit Singh was born to Mata Sundari and other Sahibzaade were born to Mata Ajit Kaur. Who are Sikhs by Dilgeer have written same facts.

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