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pashanks

Sikh/Hindu relationship-marriage

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I'm a 24 yr old final year medical student, a Hindu, though not devout and so is my bf of almost 3 years, HS but he's a Sikh, though not devout too. We're currently having an amazing relationship, and we've been through so many ups and downs these past years. I am his first, while he's my 3rd; though my past r/ships have been short and not very significant. He is truly a gem of a person and I have been nothing but lucky to have found him. We cherish each other a lot. I am in a state where I'm sure I want to spend the rest of my life with him, just because although we're different, we both have qualities that make us so strong and I can't imagine anyone else I'd share my life with. There was no problem when I told my family about us, there we more supportive than I could imagine. The problem arised when HS told me that his family would unlikely approve of our relationship. At early stages, I was still positive, urging him to tell. But at some point, I realised that they'll be really against it. And so they were when he finally broke it to them. They begged him and cried and really made an impact on him. They told him that other families and the community will look down upon them if he married me. I was very angry at the beginning, feeling fooled, because if he knew his parents wouldnt agree, why did he commit to me in the first place? The attraction and love was mutual, i did not force him into anything. But then I realised I wanted him. I want this man in my life, and I told my parents about his parents, and they were so supportive and encouraged us to fight for it. They even came out with so many plans and ideas and even spoke to my bf about it. My bf is in the process of persuading his parents, this will be his second time. The thing is, is there really hope for us, or are we just leading ourselves on? I have seen so many hindu/sikh marriages and they are living happily. Though i know the sikh community is very strict and does not encourage interracial marriages but we are in a modern society. I come from a very good background, and I'm equally educated. I have even told him that I am willing to convert to sikhism, not because of him, but because I want to learn their culture, their religion. I respect it a lot. and this will help HS and I live a better life. I'm willing to sacrifice but his parents are not willing to even consider. This is taking a toll on our relationship. We have both agreed to fight for it but I can sense that my bf is unsure and torn between his families cries and begging and me. He is not willing to marry me against his family's wish. I have tried to convince him, give him support and strength to talk to his parents and convince them. He is, and he will be doing so. But in my heart, Im sensing that he's very doubtful and depressed, as he seems to be very sure that he wont be able to convince them. It's killing me as I feel we have not fought for it enough. we just started and we must go on convincing the family. Help me, please tell me/advise me on how I should react to all this? How can I help him convince his family? Is there hope for us?

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Hi pashanks I read your story and I can relate to it alot. I cannot believe in this day in age this kind of stuff is still happening. I really do feel for you. If I was him I would keep begging my family to accept you and I would die trying. The point of the matter is that his parents/family care about the respect they get. There is nothing more they care about. I wish everything turns out good for both of you. I'm in the same situation, I love my girl so much I would anything to get married to her even run away with her if worse comes to worse. My advice to you is keep on fighting and hopefully he does the same good luck god bless. Keep us posted cheers

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If you're genuinely interested in Sikhism, then his family should have no problem, stress on this point. Sikhi is a true spiritual path, if followed with true intentions and love for God in the heart, it is very rewarding life. Also whilst 'love' might seem like everything now, know that on the Sikhi path, we understanding that this love is not really true. Put the 'love' aside for a moment and see whether you reckon it will be a stable and happy marriage considering all other parameters. I wish you the best.

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Hey Bhagzi, THANK YOU. Thank you so much for reading and taking the time to reply. It really made a difference to me, to what I believe in. I am doing exactly what you have advised, that is to keep fighting. But unfortunately, that part depends a lot on my other half. He has to do the convincing. I'm beyond surprised too that such ideation still exists in this modern world. We do not want to destroy the culture/religion, we want to embrace it, but idk why they don't understand. They seem to be more concerned about what the society thinks than their son's happiness. Thank you so much for your words. Currently he's persuading his mum, but I can feel that he's hesitant. He already has this idea in his mind that his parents will never agree and with that in mind, he's finding it difficult to persuade as he feels he knows the outcome. I can feel him on the edge of giving up sometimes. I ask myself, why isn't he strong enough, why won't he say he'll fight till the end, just as you said. Idk how to answer that, or whether i want to hear the answer. I assume it's because he's afraid of losing his family, and so i keep supporting and encouraging him. Even my parents suggested that we get married without his family's consent, that is if they never agree but i know my bf won't do that, which is why i'm scared he'll just give up and walk out of our relationship. I pray for the best for you too. It;s really a tough position to be in. But we gotta be strong. will keep you posted. Thanks a million :) :)

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Hey rrss, thank you for your kind words. I appreciate what you have shared with me. and i take it to heart :) Thank you. My query is, can a non-sikh convert to sikhism and be accepted into the community? Will they be able to get married at the gurdwara? I really wish to have a wedding according to Sikh culture because I understand that it's what my bf would want too.

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Hey rrss, thank you for your kind words. I appreciate what you have shared with me. and i take it to heart :) Thank you. My query is, can a non-sikh convert to sikhism and be accepted into the community? Will they be able to get married at the gurdwara? I really wish to have a wedding according to Sikh culture because I understand that it's what my bf would want too.

I am glad to be of assistance! I will send you a personal message. God bless.

Edited by rrss

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Hey rrss, thank you for your kind words. I appreciate what you have shared with me. and i take it to heart :) Thank you. My query is, can a non-sikh convert to sikhism and be accepted into the community? Will they be able to get married at the gurdwara? I really wish to have a wedding according to Sikh culture because I understand that it's what my bf would want too.

Yes, yes and yes :smile2:

By converting, you mean getting baptized/taking Amrit?

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**sigh** ..."I love him/her"..."I can do anything for him/her"..."I can't live without him/her"...

How old you said you were again? 24? What is your definition of love today? What guarantee you have it will be the same after another 24 years?

Take it from me, acceptance will be a challenge for you, so better be prepared. And also be prepared to face head-on all tests life throws at you, including a 1984 sort of scenario when your appearance can be the cause of your end. That is the real test. In such times, what will be your definition of love?

All the things you said are "awwwwww sooooooo sweeeettt!". But sorry, not enough. This is Sikhi we're talking about, its the craziest height of pure romance you can have with the One Lord who created you. This is where you smile and face the most unspeakable and most brutal tortures as you die. I am delighted that you want to be a Sikh, but forgive me for saying this bluntly sister, a 3-year romantic infatuation with a Sardaar is not a good enough reason to join this brigade of headless (you offer your head, i.e. your ego at Guru Sahib's feet) warriors who don't think twice before shedding their life for the cause of truth, righteousness and justice. Make sure you know what you're getting into, and I welcome you to the Khalsa Panth in advance.

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Behenji

If the only problem is your not being a sikh, then that is something that can be easily overcome by conversion. However it is extremely unlikely that that is the only problem.

There may be a caste and racial element to this scenario that we are not aware of.... if this is the case, then sikhi and becoming a sikh of the Guru would help you more than anything else could, but you will still have to face the fact that the family wont want you. This would be overcome by the presence of a child a few years down the road.

If you feel connected with this marg then ignore what i am about to say..... but if you do not feel an honest, sincere and genuine and connection to the path that is described by the 10 Gurus, then please do not fold to the oppressive pressure of others to conform. Believe it or not, that is absolutely diametrically opposed to the teachings of the Gurus in the first place. Guru Tegh Bahadur ji Maharaj died to allow hindus have the right to remain hindus- so if you dont feel like sikhi is something you would want for yourself then respect yourself and the message the gurus brought, and just be yourself.

No matter what you choose, understand Behenji that we will support you.

To thine own self be true.

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**sigh** ..."I love him/her"..."I can do anything for him/her"..."I can't live without him/her"...

How old you said you were again? 24? What is your definition of love today? What guarantee you have it will be the same after another 24 years?

Take it from me, acceptance will be a challenge for you, so better be prepared. And also be prepared to face head-on all tests life throws at you, including a 1984 sort of scenario when your appearance can be the cause of your end. That is the real test. In such times, what will be your definition of love?

All the things you said are "awwwwww sooooooo sweeeettt!". But sorry, not enough. This is Sikhi we're talking about, its the craziest height of pure romance you can have with the One Lord who created you. This is where you smile and face the most unspeakable and most brutal tortures as you die. I am delighted that you want to be a Sikh, but forgive me for saying this bluntly sister, a 3-year romantic infatuation with a Sardaar is not a good enough reason to join this brigade of headless (you offer your head, i.e. your ego at Guru Sahib's feet) warriors who don't think twice before shedding their life for the cause of truth, righteousness and justice. Make sure you know what you're getting into, and I welcome you to the Khalsa Panth in advance.

Commenting on that if u convert are u doing it for the Guru, or for ur man? And what happens if perchance ur man and u r separated? Will u leave Sikhi? These questions are harsh but u have to consider them. Better do it now and not after the marriage.

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Converting to Sikhi from Hinduism may not be straight forward as you think. Are you ready to denounce rituals, idol worship, Tilak wearing and etc? In practical terms this conversion may mean an entirely new way of life which you may not be so familiar with.

Edited by doctor_mani
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Converting to Sikhi from Hinduism may not be straight forward as you think. Are you ready to denounce rituals, idol worship, Tilak wearing and etc? In practical terms this conversion may mean an entirely new way of life which you may not be so familiar with.

That quote "Sikhs and Hindus are brothers" is a pretty big lie as there is nothing fundamentally similar in both panths.
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That quote "Sikhs and Hindus are brothers" is a pretty big lie as there is nothing fundamentally similar in both panths.

Yes there is similarity in both panths. They both have there cultural base in India. :biggrin2:

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Yes there is similarity in both panths. They both have there cultural base in India. :biggrin2:

Minus that.

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Minus that.

Yes there is another similarity between Hindus and Sikhs. This time sikh falls and run from baba to baba in search of happiness leaving his Guru's advice aside

Read carefully. If you can understand.

ਨਾਨਕ ਬੋਲਣੁ ਝਖਣਾ ਦੁਖ ਛਡਿ ਮੰਗੀਅਹਿ ਸੁਖ ॥

ਸੁਖੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਦੁਇ ਦਰਿ ਕਪੜੇ ਪਹਿਰਹਿ ਜਾਇ ਮਨੁਖ ॥

ਜਿਥੈ ਬੋਲਣਿ ਹਾਰੀਐ ਤਿਥੈ ਚੰਗੀ ਚੁਪ ॥੨॥

If you cannot understand Gurmukhi, then there is another similarity between 98%+ Hindus and you. :biggrin2:

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Yes there is another similarity between Hindus and Sikhs. This time sikh falls and run from baba to baba in search of happiness leaving his Guru's advice aside

Read carefully. If you can understand.

ਨਾਨਕ ਬੋਲਣੁ ਝਖਣਾ ਦੁਖ ਛਡਿ ਮੰਗੀਅਹਿ ਸੁਖ ॥

ਸੁਖੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਦੁਇ ਦਰਿ ਕਪੜੇ ਪਹਿਰਹਿ ਜਾਇ ਮਨੁਖ ॥

ਜਿਥੈ ਬੋਲਣਿ ਹਾਰੀਐ ਤਿਥੈ ਚੰਗੀ ਚੁਪ ॥੨॥

If you cannot understand Gurmukhi, then there is another similarity between 98%+ Hindus and you. :biggrin2:

Hey I never said anything bad about Hinduism just pointed my perspective out that some people mistakenly believe both faiths are a 100% mirror image of each other.

Yes there is another similarity between Hindus and Sikhs. This time sikh falls and run from baba to baba in search of happiness leaving his Guru's advice aside

Read carefully. If you can understand.

ਨਾਨਕ ਬੋਲਣੁ ਝਖਣਾ ਦੁਖ ਛਡਿ ਮੰਗੀਅਹਿ ਸੁਖ ॥

ਸੁਖੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਦੁਇ ਦਰਿ ਕਪੜੇ ਪਹਿਰਹਿ ਜਾਇ ਮਨੁਖ ॥

ਜਿਥੈ ਬੋਲਣਿ ਹਾਰੀਐ ਤਿਥੈ ਚੰਗੀ ਚੁਪ ॥੨॥

If you cannot understand Gurmukhi, then there is another similarity between 98%+ Hindus and you. :biggrin2:

Thanks for the Shabad, made my day.

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Hey I never said anything bad about Hinduism just pointed my perspective out that some people mistakenly believe both faiths are a 100% mirror image of each other.

Thanks for the Shabad, made my day.

No hard feelings, please. :biggrin2:

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Dear Pashanks

Conversion is a must, but is a massive step. How affiliated is he to his religion if he is dating and if this is a loose affiliation, then is your only concern about how to play happy families? Why don't you both wait until your Registrar years to make any descision about marriage, because a lot will change for you both personally by then?

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Dear Pashanks

Conversion is a must, but is a massive step. How affiliated is he to his religion if he is dating and if this is a loose affiliation, then is your only concern about how to play happy families? Why don't you both wait until your Registrar years to make any descision about marriage, because a lot will change for you both personally by then?

U do have a point veer ji. Wait and see how it goes.
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**sigh** ..."I love him/her"..."I can do anything for him/her"..."I can't live without him/her"...

How old you said you were again? 24? What is your definition of love today? What guarantee you have it will be the same after another 24 years?

Take it from me, acceptance will be a challenge for you, so better be prepared. And also be prepared to face head-on all tests life throws at you, including a 1984 sort of scenario when your appearance can be the cause of your end. That is the real test. In such times, what will be your definition of love?

All the things you said are "awwwwww sooooooo sweeeettt!". But sorry, not enough. This is Sikhi we're talking about, its the craziest height of pure romance you can have with the One Lord who created you. This is where you smile and face the most unspeakable and most brutal tortures as you die. I am delighted that you want to be a Sikh, but forgive me for saying this bluntly sister, a 3-year romantic infatuation with a Sardaar is not a good enough reason to join this brigade of headless (you offer your head, i.e. your ego at Guru Sahib's feet) warriors who don't think twice before shedding their life for the cause of truth, righteousness and justice. Make sure you know what you're getting into, and I welcome you to the Khalsa Panth in advance.

Hey there :) Yes, I'm 24. I may not be old enough to make the perfect decisions but I have reached a certain age at which decisions regarding my future has to be made. Yes, i truly understand that the path I'm taking is going to be a challenging one. My family and I are fully aware of that. I am also aware of the fact that I might not have the fighting spirit all the time, all my life and that is why I'm hoping that the family would learn to accept me. They are not even willing to consider me. The problem is not me, it's the fact that they don't even want to consider me as A PERSON, not as a Hindu/a sikh or anything. I also understand that if I manage to be part of their family, I most likely will not be welcomed as I would like to be. I may face cold shoulders and stares and other challenges, which I am prepared/am still preparing myself to face as I want to be commited to this man I love. Please excuse me, but I would like to strongly disagree with you that the 3 year relationship I am having is not just an infatuation. I am no longer a secondary school girl to be blinded by infatuations and incapable of differentiating love from other feelings. If all young relationships are brushed off as infatuation, how can true love/relationships develop? We fall in love, and we learn to love the person we fell for. I need the support of my bf whom I'm going to face all the challenges with but I'm unsure if he's willing to as his family is putting so much pressure and GUILT on him. This is really unfair. I feel so helpless as they threaten him emotionally and I don't know how far I can ask him to be strong as I see signs of him giving way. But I want to be strong, and I want to support him. I have shown him that every single day.

Sikhism is going to be new to me. I need time to adjust and adapt the culture. But first i must be given a chance to do so. How can I learn and adapt when I'm being pre-judged and not given a chance? Instead of encouraging, you question my integrity and honesty in becoming a Sikh. Yes, it's a sacrifice I have to make, but it's to be with the man I love. And yes, if the family have accepted me with an open mind and heart, I would be more than happy to learn and adapt the culture and religion. I understand religion is a strong basis of a family, and I don't want to break that. I want to be part of their family. And converting to Sikhism is a divine path that can only help me mend their hearts and be part of their family, if they are willing to accept me. But in my case, they are not willing to. Apparently I'm an embarrasment if their son marries me as I am from a different religion and that the community will look down upon them and bring shame to their family. Is it a shameful thing if a new family member embraces the family culture and religion? Just because we're of different skin colour or upbringing, does not mean I cannot be a good wife/family member/Sikhi.

And thank you, for welcoming me to the Khalsa Panth. I wish they would do the same.

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Behenji

If the only problem is your not being a sikh, then that is something that can be easily overcome by conversion. However it is extremely unlikely that that is the only problem.

There may be a caste and racial element to this scenario that we are not aware of.... if this is the case, then sikhi and becoming a sikh of the Guru would help you more than anything else could, but you will still have to face the fact that the family wont want you. This would be overcome by the presence of a child a few years down the road.

If you feel connected with this marg then ignore what i am about to say..... but if you do not feel an honest, sincere and genuine and connection to the path that is described by the 10 Gurus, then please do not fold to the oppressive pressure of others to conform. Believe it or not, that is absolutely diametrically opposed to the teachings of the Gurus in the first place. Guru Tegh Bahadur ji Maharaj died to allow hindus have the right to remain hindus- so if you dont feel like sikhi is something you would want for yourself then respect yourself and the message the gurus brought, and just be yourself.

No matter what you choose, understand Behenji that we will support you.

To thine own self be true.

Hey there :) THANK YOU for your kind words and honesty and mostly, for your support. The warmth I feel in my heart cannot be explained :) I have expressed my agreement to convert if that is the matter that is stopping the family from agreeing. However, they seem to be deaf to our pleas. They are adamant that I cannot be accepted as marrying a Hindu will bring their family shame and they will be outcasts in the community. However I believe they are emotionally threatening the son as my family and I have seen married couples of sikh and hindu living a happy life with their inlaws and community. I also understand that converting itself will not solve all the problem and I am willing to face that, given the support of my bf. My parents have also told me that a child in the future will chance their perception.

The thing is, my bf is convincing them, but I can feel that the pressure and GUILT they're putting on him is killing him. I am quite disappointed with my bf as I expected him to be stronger, as it reflects the strength of our relationship but I have to understand that he's going through a tough tiime too as he has never seen his family this upset. But i need him to be strong to fight this war. How can I win this war alone? But idk is he has the strength and that doubt is killing me inside. I'm afraid he'll give up. I need your opinions so that I can make him stronger, give him confidence.

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Commenting on that if u convert are u doing it for the Guru, or for ur man? And what happens if perchance ur man and u r separated? Will u leave Sikhi? These questions are harsh but u have to consider them. Better do it now and not after the marriage.

Converting to Sikhi from Hinduism may not be straight forward as you think. Are you ready to denounce rituals, idol worship, Tilak wearing and etc? In practical terms this conversion may mean an entirely new way of life which you may not be so familiar with.

The reason I am considering conversion is because our religions are preventing us from being together, assuming that this is why his parents do not approve of us. By being together, I do not just mean me and my bf, but me AND HIS FAMILY, his community. I want to be accepted into his family. I want to learn and be part of his culture. Embrace it. And I will do that and more for us to have a family, for my parents to have in laws, for our children to have grandparents and aunties etc. If I am given a chance to learn and embrace the religion and culture, I believe I will be a true Sikhi.But the problem is, his parents wont even give me a chance. Like I have mentioned, I'm not a devout hindu. Denouncing is not really an issue as I am still in search of god and his calling. I find Sikhism to be focused and divine but the mentality of the community have disappointed me. I wish they would embrace their fellow brothers and sisters who are willing to learn the religion and culture instead of shunning us away.

YES, i would not have considered converting to sikhism if I had not fallen in love and want to build a marriage with this man. Thus it is unfair for you to ask me whether I'm converting for him or for the Guru. The answer is obvious, it's for him and his family, but not just to win their approval, but to be part of their family culture and tradition. I'm a family orientated person, I understand how important and essential is a family to a person's life. Thus, I am willing to denounce my religion.

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Many theorists group only children among first-borns ­– although they never experience having to share their parents, nor the frictions, fights or fondness that comes with siblings. For this reason, they feel like outsiders, distanced from much of life. The only child is thought to be extremely mature, aloof, someone who expects a special standing. Middle child So what about the middle child? According to Darwinian theory, they lose out as they are neither the precious, able, oldest,­ nor the vulnerable youngest. Their strength is that they learn to be more flexible and sociable, to compromise and build coalitions. ‘Middle children tend to be more relaxed,’ says Grose. James, 39, is a typical case. Born between his sister and brother, he has always been easy-going, and loves to be surrounded by friends. Yet his affability comes at a price. ‘I turned my back on becoming a pro rugby player because I lacked competitive drive,’ he says. As the first-born boy, James didn’t struggle to establish his own identity as some middle-borns do, but, he says, ‘if I wanted something I definitely had to shout the loudest to make myself heard’. Gemma, 33, the middle of three sisters, found it harder to carve out her niche. ‘I lived in my older sister’s shadow, and was overlooked in favour of my younger sister,’ she says. ‘I felt left out, and overcompensated by forging friendships outside the family.’ She also became a skilled negotiator. ‘As a “middle” I was the peacemaker. I still use those skills now, and I’m good at seeing everyone’s point of view.’ Last born The youngest children are more likely to question the order of things, and develop a ‘revolutionary personality’. Many last-borns choose a completely different path to their older siblings to avoid direct competition. They are the babies of the family, and may grow up expecting others to take responsibility. ‘They’re not life’s volunteers,’ says Grose. ‘They’re more likely to put others in service.’ As the youngest of three, I can recognise myself in that. Growing up, I was the most likely to have blazing rows with my dad, I sympathised with the underdog and I’m not a volunteer. (At family get-togethers, I’m still the least helpful.) But a lonely outsider, struggling with an inferiority complex? It seems harsh to condemn anyone to this description simply on the basis of where they stand in the family. Grose admits the effects of birth order can vary according to different factors, including temperament, gender and age gap. Lucy McDonald is the third of five children, but was the first girl. ‘I’ve got a mix of middle and oldest child traits,’ she says. ‘You can have an easy-going first-born, which will ease the competition all the way down,’ says Grose. ‘If the children are the same sex, the competition is more extreme –­ two boys close together produces the most rivalry, and, generally, the closer the age gap, the more dramatic the birth-order effect. When the gap is more than five years, it’s greatly diminished.’ Grose has found birth order a useful tool when dealing with adult clients. ‘Recently, I was approached by a professional in her forties who was basically worn out,’ he says. ‘She admitted that, as a child, she was always playing catch-up with her sister, who was two years older than her. She had always tried to run as fast and be as clever, and the pattern had played out her whole life. As an adult, she was competitive in everything ­– she’d replaced her older sister with her colleagues, her boss, her friends. Despite career success, she was never happy with herself. Helping her see the problem through the context of birth order put her on the path to understanding and modifying her behaviour patterns.’ Cliff Isaacson, author of Birth Order Effect for Couples (Fair Winds, £9.99), believes birth order can even help you find a partner. ‘Two third-borns make the best couples,’ he says. ‘They relate without conflict, there’s a lot of humour and they make a protective environment for their children. Two first-borns rarely connect, there’s no compromise, it’s not a happy relationship.’ According to Isaacson, however, birth order is not a fixed state. ‘It’s a set of strategies developed in childhood to cope with your siblings (or lack of them), parents and the family situation,’ he says. ‘As you get older, you may learn other ways of interacting with your peers. The best reason for studying your birth order is to understand yourself or your children a little better – then overcome it.’ Are you a born leader? More than half the US Presidents, every US astronaut and most Nobel prize-winners have been either first born or an only child. Typical professions are law, politics, science and accountancy. First-borns: Bill and Hillary Clinton, George W Bush, Saddam Hussein, Benito Mussolini, Adolf Hitler (actually his mother’s first surviving child), Kylie Minogue, Cherie Blair. Only children: Winston Churchill, Joseph Stalin, Franklin D Roosevelt, Jean Paul Sartre, Burt Bacharach, Frank Sinatra, Tiger Woods. Middle children: many middle children work in retail, sales, fashion, advertising or the caring professions. Stella McCartney, Michelle Pfeiffer, Jacqueline du Pré, Princess Diana, Cindy Crawford, Cate Blanchett, Emily Brontë. Last children: thought to be rebels, non-conformists, also drawn to creative professions and performing arts. Joan of Arc, Mahatma Gandhi, Charles Darwin, Leon Trotsky, Charlie Chaplin, Hugh Grant, Johnny Depp. Source - https://www.psychologies.co.uk/birth-order-effect
    • https://www.thequint.com/women/2017/03/15/sexual-harassment-at-the-time-of-sita-draupadi-mandodari-ahalya-ramayana-mahabharata
    • Yeah, but as a condition for marriage if everything else was excellent; that's an overperfection. Though he's got to be happy, instead of starting a marriage on a bad foot.
    • Massands were proven to be Anti-Gurmat, for this very reason? Only Guru Sahib can give Amrit; this is proven in Gurbani 24/7 when imperfect humans start putting their feet in water, and calling it Amrit then we have problems. Guru Sahib is allowed to give Amrit because he is God's form. Nihangs also don't believe in female Punj Pyare; the only groups that do believe in it are man-made Jathas and not Jathas made by Vaheguru; Taksali and Nihangs; (note, not all Nihangs were formed by Guru Sahib). +1, nobody should be changing the topic, but O.P. really got to stop msking threads like this; he has not even bothered to post anything in this topic he knew would lead into a fight. (I'd give him 9000 troll points for this).
    • I'd say most Sikh guys are between 5'6" and 5'11" taller than that is not the norm from what I have seen. And for women about 5'2"-5'5" average. You can find Sikh girls in the 5'8" or taller range but rare. Of course I'm not in Punjab but Kashmir.