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Jamdoot - Metaphor or Reality?


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It is all 'real' !!!

So are the angels and tooth fairy.

Let's not forget 'santa' !

If you 'Believe'- then it becomes real for the believer.

Has someone really had an NDE and gone to the narak of hell and then come back ????

I don't really think so !

From what I know about NDE's and OBE's, there are NO similarities of cases that describe some sort of hell.

The people that believe, actually do a good job making this living world into narak !

Bhaji, there are several instances where the 'jamm' are mentioned. Why would you think they're not real?

ਮੰਨੈ ਜਮ ਕੈ ਸਾਥਿ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥

Mannai jam kai sāth na jā▫e.

The faithful do not have to go with the Messenger of Death.

ਜਿਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਤੇ ਭਾਗਹੀਣ ਜਮ ਪਾਸਿ ॥

Jin har har har ras nām na pā▫i▫ā ṯe bẖāghīṇ jam pās.

Those who have not obtained the Sublime Essence of the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, Har, are most unfortunate; they are led away by the Messenger of Death.

ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਤਬ ਹੀ ਨਰੁ ਜਾਗੈ

Kaho Kabīr ṯab hī nar jāgai.

Says Kabeer, the man wakes up,

ਜਮ ਕਾ ਡੰਡੁ ਮੂੰਡ ਮਹਿ ਲਾਗੈ ॥੩॥੨॥

Jam kā dand mūnd mėh lāgai. ||3||2||

only when the Messenger of Death hits him over the head with his club. ||3||2||

Not only are there Jamdoots, but there's Jampur (city of death) as well!

ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਠਉਰੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਨੀ ਜਮਪੁਰਿ ਦੂਖ ਸਹਾਹਿ ॥੩॥

Bin nāvai ṯẖa▫ur na pā▫inī jam pur ḏūkẖ sahāhi. ||3||

Without the Name, they find no place of rest. In the City of Death, they suffer in agony. ||3||

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Gurbani often mentions the 'Jamdoot' presiding over the heads of those who are not in tune with God. Now, from what I understand, the Jamdoot is an 'angel' of some sorts in Hindu texts (correct me if I am wrong), and this suggests that Gurbani is saying that those who do not heed God will be struck down by this entity.

What I do not understand is whether this Jamdoot is to be taken as a physical being, or whether the Jamdoot represents death and the cycle of rebirth. This also applies to the ideas of 'hell', 'rakshish' (devils), etc.... in Gurbani.

This brings forth another question. How much metaphorical value are we to apply to the Guru's word and how much are we to take literally. I would like to hear everyone's thoughts on this.

Jamdoot is a physical being and so is Dharamraaj.

Dharam-raaj is also known as Jamm-raaj or Yamm-raaj.

Doot = messenger

So jamdoot's are basically messengers of Death of Jamraaj.

Jamm-raaj is also called as Dharam-raaj because he is given the duty by Sri Akaal Purakh Ji to decide, measuring by the scales of Dharam, about what is to be done to each and every soul after their death according to their Karams.

In both the following quotes that we read in Sodar twice a day, Dharam Raaj Ji is said to be singing God's praises.

Gāvan ṯuḏẖno pavaṇ pāṇī baisanṯar gāvai rājā ḏẖaram ḏu▫āre.
Wind, water and fire sing of You. The Righteous Judge of Dharma sings at Your Door.
Gāvan ṯuḏẖno cẖiṯ gupaṯ likẖ jāṇan likẖ likẖ ḏẖaram bīcẖāre.
Chitr and Gupt, the angels of the conscious and the subconscious who keep the record of actions, and the Righteous Judge of Dharma who reads this record, sing of You.

If we thought of Dharamraaj/Yamraaj, Jamdoot, dev, daanav, daint, chitar, gupt, bhoot, pret, sur, asur, narak, surag, pataal etc.etc. as simply metaphors...So much of Gurbani would simply be metaphorical!

Not only that, we will need to find what ever one of those are metaphors for!

In my opinion, our mind only understands things that it has visualised. If we haven't seen something we can't simply say that it doesn't exist.

Ka▫ī kot pāṯāl ke vāsī.
Many millions inhabit the nether regions.
Ka▫ī kot narak surag nivāsī.
Many millions dwell in heaven and hell.

Now, if we thought that Hell, Heaven and the other nether worlds are simply metaphors, what would the above quotes mean?

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The metaphors are for understanding.

The ONE akaal purakh can present as many roles. He plays the role of chitr, gupt and dharamraaj.

I wouldn't view these as employees of God in heaven that decide our entrance to sach khand.

This becomes too abrahamic, like Peter at the gates of heaven and Jesus waiting inside !!

I always claim that if the belief in these metaphors helps you to understand sikhi better, then you I see no wrong in this.

Because, later on you come to realise that there is ONLY ONE GOD, and these metaphors are ALL HIM.

In my personal case, it helped me to believe these metaphors as actual beings when I first started. Then as you progress, you come to realise more and more of the TRUTH, all through his grace.

I don't like to speak against or for these metaphors, as it all depends on what pace and where you are walking on this spiritual path.

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pind moo-ai jee-o kih ghar jaataa.

When the body dies, where does the soul go?

sabad ateet anaahad raataa.

It is absorbed into the untouched, unstruck melody of the Word of the Shabad.

jin raam jaani-aa tineh pachhaani-aa.

Only one who knows the Lord realizes Him.

ji-o goongay saakar man maani-aa. ||1||

The mind is satisfied and satiated, like the mute who eats the sugar candy and just smiles,

without speaking. ||

PEOPLE WHO RUN BEHIND EARTHLY THING HAVE FEAR OF DEATH. EARTHLY THINGS ARE IMPORTANT BUT U CANNOT LET THEM OVER CAPTURE UR THOUGHT. PEOPLE WHO ARE MAD ABOUT EARTHLY THINGS FEAR OF DEATH MOST.

WE SHOULD WORRY ABOUT THIS BIRTH, GURU NANAK JI SAYS "KHANDEYA,PEHANDEYA,HASDEYA,JIWANDYA HOIYE MUKAT" IN THIS LIFE U SHOULD BE LIBERATED.

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Bhaji, there are several instances where the 'jamm' are mentioned. Why would you think they're not real?

ਮੰਨੈ ਜਮ ਕੈ ਸਾਥਿ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥

Mannai jam kai sāth na jā▫e.

The faithful do not have to go with the Messenger of Death.

ਜਿਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਤੇ ਭਾਗਹੀਣ ਜਮ ਪਾਸਿ ॥

Jin har har har ras nām na pā▫i▫ā ṯe bẖāghīṇ jam pās.

Those who have not obtained the Sublime Essence of the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, Har, are most unfortunate; they are led away by the Messenger of Death.

Good examples of Gurbani Tukh. ਮੰਨੈ ਜਮ ਕੈ ਸਾਥਿ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥(ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਖਿਆ ਮਨਣ ਨਾਲ ਜੀਵ ਜਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਸਾਥ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਂਦਾ) Guru Jee states this as fact in easy to understand language. I fail to see where is the metaphor in this tukh. What is ਜਮ being used as metaphor of? To state these things that are mentioned in Gurbani as non existent is to put doubt on the truthfulness on Gurbani itself.

We humans are like the frog in the well who thinks nothing can exist outside of the well because he has not been able to see anything outside the well. No matter how much someone from the outside tries to inform the frog of the things that exist outside the well, the frog will continue saying no this is all myth, fairytail or non existant.

We need to put our Soch(thinking) behind Gurbani instead of trying to put Gurbani behind our flawed Soch often polluted by the world we see and feel around us. This world is jhooti and the soch influenced by this world is also jhooti. Only Gurbani is sach in this world. So Gursikho, put your matt behind Gurbani do not doubt what Guru Jee has written.

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