Niddar nang and his letter

[Shaheed Singh Khalsa]

So the red dot of inequal brahminism on nidars forehead and the Thrisul in his hand doesn't seem like any part of traditional Sikhi pre-Singh sabha to me! The KFC and Johnny walker in his belly don't seem like any part of traditional Sikhi pre-Singh sabha to me either!

[lsingh]

The British could not care less about the health of Sikhism during their rule so trying to link the promotion of Sikhism with them is ridiculous. . The British after the Indian Mutiny were careful with all religions in case there was an anti British uprising again and promoted a 'Policy of Balance' between Hindus , Muslims and Sikhs. For example the Sikh institutions such as Khalsa College in Amritsar was set up after the Hindus built a university at Beneras and Muslims at Aligarh, it was hardly British support for Sikhs or promotion of the Singh Sabha.The taking of Amrit by soldiers by Sikh soldiers was a retention of the ceremony of the Khalsa army under Ranjit Singh. The British saw that this made a more disciplined soldier as they analysed why Sikhs were so superior soldiers to others after the Anglo Sikh wars 1845-49 and they found it was their religion, they saw this as a benefit to themselves but indirectly it helped the Sikhs.

I have found some of the Harry Potter style stories that we should be praying to Deamons, Goblins and Witches by some of the New Indian Nihangs and attacking the saintly Sikhs who laid down their lives to free Nankana Sahib and Harimandar Sahib ( The Mahant gave Gen Dyer a Siropa after the Jallianwalla Bagh massacre) from the pro British Mahants and then calling them British supported quite offensive.

What was different from todays India is that they did not prevent the promotion of taking of Amrit by Sikhs, they did not start sects/groups to undermine the Sikh religion.

[taran0]

This thread is not about british/arya smaaj/colonialism so please start another thread

the Radha Suamis also have some really good things written in their books, the namdharis also have a lot of gun in terms of raag vidya etc,

darshan dassis also had a good sound foundation of equality to start off with....

all sects first hijack good sound arguments to get people on board...

Nidar has clearly in the previous post i posted, insulted and ridiculed other Sikhs because he does not agree with them, so where is this universailty of snatanism and accepting welcoming nature of his students, it's just a front to get people on board.

it seems that nidar hates most amritdhari sikhs except for nihangs and the nakli nirankaris who he refers to as "SANT NIRANKARI"

This is an offshoot of Nirankari movement to which so many mainstream Sikhs today are so hostile. In the 1930’s, one Boota Singh (1883-1944) broke away from the main Nirankari movement. The reasons as to why exactly he decided to part from the Nirankaris were not doctrinal, but based purely upon personal and dietary reasons. Boota Singh became fond of drinking alcohol, which was not approved of by the parent body of Nirankaris.- http://www.<banned site filter activated>/htmls/article_samparda_sant.html

he talks about it like it wasnt a bad thing he was just diferent so he broke off. Everyone knows nidar drinks and has turned up to teach class wreaking of alcohol. (source : oral history from 2 ex students)

In time during the pontiff of Gurbachan Singh, who succeeded Avtar Singh, the Adi Guru Durbar was removed from their temples. This action was the result of criticism Gurbachan Singh was receiving from mainstream Sikhism. Mainstream Sikhs were unhappy that Gurbachan Singh was presenting himself as a self-styled Sikh Guru. To add to this, Gurbachan Singh wrote a text named ‘Avtar Bani’ in which he made many ridiculous claims. One claim was that his wife Buda was ‘Jagat Mata’ (mother of the world), his daughter-in-law was ‘Raj Mata’ (queen mother) and he himself was the Avtar of the Formless Almighty.

the whole way through nidar fails to tell of gurbachans speeches on the fateful day of 1978 that he would stand on Guru Granth Sahib ji and outdo Guru Gobind Singh ji by creating the Sat Sitarey. which is why soem sikhs like Bhai Fauja Singh were insulted and hurt so started a peaceful protest.

Nidars version of events is clearly biased towards the Nakli NIrankaris, he includes non of the eyewitness accounts sayign that the nirankaris had gunmen ignored and hidden by the police in their encampment and at the end he states

The late 1980’s and early 1990s saw these militant Sikhs carrying out genocide of Sant Nirankaris in the name of cleansing the ‘Sikh Panth’ of unwanted foes. Rather than weakening the Sant Nirankari movement, this mindless persecution served to elevate the Sant Nirankaris to the status of martyrs. - http://www.<banned site filter activated>/htmls/article_samparda_sant4.html

so 13 sikhs get shot on a peaceful protest and the singhs get blamed for the genocide has anyoen in nidars classes read this and compared it to actual historic accounts and where have they been over the past 30 years where its plain to see even according to amnesty international it is in fact the Sikhs who have had genocide carried out against them

NIdar is fake and he has an agenda just because he piggy backed off the Nihang Dals maryada does not mean he is right, his true agenda is evident within his writing but its very subtle, and has over the years brainwashed more and more innocent people into his way of thinking.

I agree with a lot of the Nihang stuff, but i am not that stupid that i cannot see the snake hiding very carefully in the flowers.

Gur Bar Akaal !

[osingh]

Vaah! Veer Taran Jeeo,

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

You are doing good work and it is great to hear that the committee of Gurdwara Sahib stopped classes of Niddar Singh. If committees were aware of the garbage written on sites connected to Niddar Singh I'm sure they would be take action.

Posting a picture of bhai Amolak Singh jee who has done so much parchar and seva of Sikhi with the words "pakhand kirtan" says it all. Bhai sahib has connected and inspired many towards Sikhi.

Fine if one believes kirtan should be done in raags only this is fine. What is the need to slander Gursikhs at the same time? Why not post a picture of Nihangs who also do kirtan on harmonium without raag? If a Nihang Singh does kirtan without raag is it parvaan? This is the main problem. It is fine to disagree with Taksal or AKJ but their is a certain protocol one should follow. Slandering respected Gurmukhs will bear no fruit.

Gursikhs of the past had big differences but they also had Naam, Bani and Rehat. They enshrined Gurbani in their hearts and therefore were able to have pyar with each other despite differences. Gursikhs of the past would never slander Shaheed Singhs.

Satguru Mehar Karan.

Veer Taran jeeo, have you contacted any other Gurdwara Sahibaan were these classes take place. What has been their reaction. It would be great if you could show them what is written on websites connected to Niddar Singh.

Also it is important that we can verify that indeed the letter in regards to Niddar Singh is authentic and signatures are authentic. I urge Nihang Singhs to post a video from Nihang Jathedars to clear stance on Niddar Singh.

[N30S1NGH]

Posting a picture of bhai Amolak Singh jee who has done so much parchar and seva of Sikhi with the words "pakhand kirtan" says it all. Bhai sahib has connected and inspired many towards Sikhi.

Fine if one believes kirtan should be done in raags only this is fine. What is the need to slander Gursikhs at the same time? Why not post a picture of Nihangs who also do kirtan on harmonium without raag? If a Nihang Singh does kirtan without raag is it parvaan? This is the main problem. It is fine to disagree with Taksal or AKJ but their is a certain protocol one should follow. Slandering respected Gurmukhs will bear no fruit.

Gursikhs of the past had big differences but they also had Naam, Bani and Rehat. They enshrined Gurbani in their hearts and therefore were able to have pyar with each other despite differences. Gursikhs of the past would never slander Shaheed Singhs.

Satguru Mehar Karan.

Also it is important that we can verify that indeed the letter in regards to Niddar Singh is authentic and signatures are authentic. I urge Nihang Singhs to post a video from Nihang Jathedars to clear stance on Niddar Singh.

Great post osingh veer.. Totally agree.

[js911]

Do any of the Singhs know more about Nidar Singh's background? 2 things strike me as very strange, and may help in understanding how he became to be what he is. I'm curious because it will also shed some light potentially on those who have helped him become what he is, and we should also be aware of them, especially if they are in the UK.

1. Nidar Singh claims he spent 11 years in Punjab starting 1984. Ordinarily this wouldn't be an issue, but, anyone who visited or lived in Punjab or India in the 1984 - 1997 period knows that during the peak Kharku Lahir years, Sikh boys and men would routinely get picked up, asked to come to the village dharamsala for a random inspection etc, and harassed if there was ANY inkling of political leanings. I find it highly surprising that a 18-year old British Sikh who was in India under the pretence of 'Learning a Martial Art' managed to stay undetected in Punjab for 11 years. He would have been the first one to get picked up when the Police were doing rounds of the village, as they would have said "Oh Munda England Toh Aiya, koi Gatka Sikhan". If he didn't get picked up, then who was protecting him? NO ordinary Sikh was immune to harassment in that period, except Cats and other plants.

2. Look at the picture of Nidar Singh after he comes back to UK in 1995 to get married in the Sun article here: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3922113/.html. This picture is with his wife and daugther, so it is at least 1996, or possibly even 1997 as his daughter looks about 1 year old. Why is it that after spending 11 Years in a Nihang Dal and following their Maryada, and subsequently another 2 years in the UK, he is wearing a Punjab-Pagh, and sporting a Gatra over his shoulder? Is this not the exact type of Sikh Image he now spends his time criticising? Did Nidar actually come back from Punjab believing the stuff he is spouting today, or did he change sometime between 1995 and 2000? And if so, then who in the UK helped him transition? We all know that he originally started with 'Hatka', 'Jhatka Gatka' etc and morphed into his SV today - who in the UK helped him on that transition, because having heard him speak and write, I don't believe he is intellectually capable of doing that all by himself.

[Guest]

Do any of the Singhs know more about Nidar Singh's background? 2 things strike me as very strange, and may help in understanding how he became to be what he is. I'm curious because it will also shed some light potentially on those who have helped him become what he is, and we should also be aware of them, especially if they are in the UK.

1. Nidar Singh claims he spent 11 years in Punjab starting 1984. Ordinarily this wouldn't be an issue, but, anyone who visited or lived in Punjab or India in the 1984 - 1997 period knows that during the peak Kharku Lahir years, Sikh boys and men would routinely get picked up, asked to come to the village dharamsala for a random inspection etc, and harassed if there was ANY inkling of political leanings. I find it highly surprising that a 18-year old British Sikh who was in India under the pretence of 'Learning a Martial Art' managed to stay undetected in Punjab for 11 years. He would have been the first one to get picked up when the Police were doing rounds of the village, as they would have said "Oh Munda England Toh Aiya, koi Gatka Sikhan". If he didn't get picked up, then who was protecting him? NO ordinary Sikh was immune to harassment in that period, except Cats and other plants.

2. Look at the picture of Nidar Singh after he comes back to UK in 1995 to get married in the Sun article here: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3922113/.html. This picture is with his wife and daugther, so it is at least 1996, or possibly even 1997 as his daughter looks about 1 year old. Why is it that after spending 11 Years in a Nihang Dal and following their Maryada, and subsequently another 2 years in the UK, he is wearing a Punjab-Pagh, and sporting a Gatra over his shoulder? Is this not the exact type of Sikh Image he now spends his time criticising? Did Nidar actually come back from Punjab believing the stuff he is spouting today, or did he change sometime between 1995 and 2000? And if so, then who in the UK helped him transition? We all know that he originally started with 'Hatka', 'Jhatka Gatka' etc and morphed into his SV today - who in the UK helped him on that transition, because having heard him speak and write, I don't believe he is intellectually capable of doing that all by himself.

You bring up really good points.In 1998 he released a book called the "fighting traditions and fighting arts of the Sikh warrior" and in this book there was barely any shiva hindu talk at all.But I only read some pages so you can read all of it at http://www.shastervidiya.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/The-Fighting-Traditions-And-Fighting-Arts-Of.pdf

He seemed like a good guy from what I read.

[taran0]

Yes jimmy saville seemed like a nice guy too....

[Guest]

Yes jimmy saville seemed like a hero too....

Back then.I despise him now.From the pic in 1995 he looked like amritdhari person.He is just a Hindu now.

[taran0]

I don't even think he is a Hindu, actually he is an insult to Hindus. Even Hindus are quite pious and believe in prem bhagti, even though we have different beleifs there is no hatred or disrespect for Hindu dharam.

There are some haters among the hindutva fundamentalists and RSS distortionists but in general Hindus are very good people and many were shocked and hated the injustice served against the sikhs in 1984. Some of our Hindu neighbours in jalandhar included.

Nidar seems to be someone who likes to sit on the fence with one cheek on each side

Which I think he is trying to use his snatan Mat to divide Hindus and Sikhs.

Its quite nice that some Hindus consider us their brothers, but we are a seperate distinct niyara panth. We are brothers to all mankind.

Just like Guru Nanak was a brother to bhai mardana a sufi muslim, and the low caste people that were shunned and abused by society.

Popular nihang bola goes

HUM AKALI SABH KE VALI HUMARA PANTH NIYARA HAI

We havent caused any trouble, its nidar who started it by insulting us and our shaheeds. Offering people like butta singh, who does loads of seva for youth, out claiming with great ego that he is unchallenged getting bare chaamal and thinking he can get away with it.

Well remember everyone somerset road gurdwara tomorrow 7pm lets see if he turns up to defy the sangat.

Then its on to leicester...