Doubt on getting Naam Jugti - Reru Sahib Mahapursh Updesh

[Jonny101]

I'm sorry, I wasn't saying that at all, although I was butting in to your and Gurdeep's little conversation !

I am not claiming to be wiser or brighter, but we must stick to Shabad-Guru as a primary and then put everything else after.

I'm sure you are smart enough to not be following someone like a blind sheep, but we should warn others that can get trapped into this quite easily.

I hope you didn't get offended or felt singled out with my comment as that was clearly not my intention.

I was just trying to diffuse the situation and remind us to foucs on what's common for us all.

:blush2: :respect:

veere, this conversation between me and gurdeep singh jee started when he said rom rom was metaphorical as per his interpretation then I said that some Gursikhs who have years of experience in doing naam simran say these are not metaphorical but real and an advanced avashta of a naam abhyasee who will feel the vibration of naam all over their body(rom rom). Instead of accepting that maybe someone might have a different interpretation of certain tukhs he shot back and said you read too much of babas and not gurbani some how implying that he is the only one following Gurbani while respect worthy Gursikhs that I listed in my post were not following Gurbani. When I further pressed him on this issue he again insultingly said that they have never picked up the gun or sacrificed their lives for the Panth during troubled times. There is an old saying which goes like this "those who live in glass houses should not throw stones". That is when I asked him to give me even one name of a Kala Afghanist or missionary who has ever sacrificed anything for the Panth to which he had no answer. On the other hand the list is endless of those Sikhs who were naam abhyasees and Gurbani Paathis who picked up the gun and sacrificed their lives since 1978.

To some all of Gurbani seems like a one big mataphor to some Gursikhs it is all sat sat kar janho. We may have difference of opinion on the interpretation of Tukhs, but insult of respect worthy Gursikhs of the past must not happen.

[luckysingh99]

I understand your point but I can try and clarify if 'ROM ROM' simran is a metaphor or NOT !

Firstly, lets remember and just think back to Guru Nanak Ji philosophy of trying to keep things simple without too much complication so that even the very low common man in Punjab can understand Gurbani. This stems from the fact that the hindus enforcement was that only the Brahmins were educated enough to understand their scriptures, but this is clearly not the case here, as Guruji wanted to be well away from this.

I'm sure that you will agree that 'rom rom' is referring to not just every hair on the body but every single cell that exists ?

Now, remembering that the common pendu is probably not aware what a 'cell' is, it is simpler to keep it at hair.

Since, we all know that our skin is covered with hair all over, some large some small except on the soles of feet and hands.

When we describe this simran as 'waheguru' vibrating on every single hair of the body- then strictly speaking it is a SEMI- Metaphor !

Semi, because it is not only the hair but every single cell within the body as well that vibrates with 'waheguru'.

So, my conclusion is that yes it is a metaphor and yes it is literal as well, because literally speaking a person will feel every single body hair vibrating with simran !

You are both correct, therefore I'm sure we can agree that it is a semi-metaphor and not a strict one !

Agree ???

[Raaj.Karega.Khalsa]

I'm sure that you will agree that 'rom rom' is referring to not just every hair on the body but every single cell that exists ?

Now, remembering that the common pendu is probably not aware what a 'cell' is, it is simpler to keep it at hair.

Dear Bhaji,

I double-checked with Mahan-kosh about the meaning of 'Rom'. It is indeed 'hair'.

Bhaji, I don't think that distorting the meanings of words, merely to simplify them for the "common pendu" would be the right approach either. 'Rom' is still a relatively simpler word than Sehaskriti de salok.

[gurdeepsinghjohal]

veere, this conversation between me and gurdeep singh jee started when he said rom rom was metaphorical as per his interpretation then I said that some Gursikhs who have years of experience in doing naam simran say these are not metaphorical but real and an advanced avashta of a naam abhyasee who will feel the vibration of naam all over their body(rom rom). Instead of accepting that maybe someone might have a different interpretation of certain tukhs he shot back and said you read too much of babas and not gurbani some how implying that he is the only one following Gurbani while respect worthy Gursikhs that I listed in my post were not following Gurbani. When I further pressed him on this issue he again insultingly said that they have never picked up the gun or sacrificed their lives for the Panth during troubled times. There is an old saying which goes like this "those who live in glass houses should not throw stones". That is when I asked him to give me even one name of a Kala Afghanist or missionary who has ever sacrificed anything for the Panth to which he had no answer. On the other hand the list is endless of those Sikhs who were naam abhyasees and Gurbani Paathis who picked up the gun and sacrificed their lives since 1978.

To some all of Gurbani seems like a one big mataphor to some Gursikhs it is all sat sat kar janho. We may have difference of opinion on the interpretation of Tukhs, but insult of respect worthy Gursikhs of the past must not happen.

Its not an insult to u or any gursikh. If you felt so I sincerely apologies from you.

1. First of Jony101 Rom-Rom is metaphor check it with Prof.Sahib Singh.

2. Secondly doing naam simran in morning and in the day you do not follow gurmat and live according to gurmat the main problem starts there. People do not read baani so do not understand that simran for sikh is 24*7 concept.

3. In another thread you said "Narak" actually means "Narak" its not metaphor but "Sarap Jooni" you never answered and both were from same shabad. Narak in gurbani is metaphor.

4. You should understand gurbani then you should say "Sat Sat kar jano"

5. People who laid their lives were sikhs, we cannot argue on them.

6. Kala afghani and missionary well I have will ask them about there contribution and let you know.

Jugti of Naam abhiaas is given in Guru Granth Sahib "Saas Giras, uthat, bethat, sovat, jaagat"

time "har pal" "nimakh nimakh" "andin" "aath pahar".

Guru ji wrote everything, which jugti baba ji will teach the sikhs and if you feel that he can guide you to do naam abhiaas you should meet him.

My Guru Guru Granth Sahib has every jugti of naam abhiaas.

Lastly and more impotant what baba ji in audio clip posted in first post is saying you should check out all those shabads.

[luckysingh99]

Dear Bhaji,

I double-checked with Mahan-kosh about the meaning of 'Rom'. It is indeed 'hair'.

Bhaji, I don't think that distorting the meanings of words, merely to simplify them for the "common pendu" would be the right approach either. 'Rom' is still a relatively simpler word than Sehaskriti de salok.

Thanks for your contribution, but yes we can take the literal meaning of hair or the small strand of hair.

I wasn't trying to distort the meanings or imply that Guruji used the word of 'rom' since he couldn't use 'cell'.

I'm sure you will agree that it's not just the hair that vibrates ???

Another way of looking at it is that for when explaining something down to the nucleus level deep withn us then the term 'antar' is used in gurbani and for this same kind of expression on our outer body the term 'rom rom' is used.

This is my understanding and from my little experience (very little and short-lived), there is something that occurs when 'waheguru' as in simran mode vibrates within and in your outer self all day long. Infact, you 'feel' it in everything you look at from the birds to the trees.

YES, you feel like hugging the trees since you can sense 'waheguru' simran eminating from them !

Every person you look at and you also feel the 'waheguru' within them vibrating as well, even though they have done no simran !

If we ALL had this blessing of a feeling all the time then the world would be a much better place.

[GPS]

Jugti of Naam abhiaas is given in Guru Granth Sahib "Saas Giras, uthat, bethat, sovat, jaagat"

time "har pal" "nimakh nimakh" "andin" "aath pahar".

Elsewhere you or someone also wrote shabad Guru? Can we know what is meant by shabad.

What is saas giras? Or sovat ?

sahib singh is not authority on Guru Granth sahib's teachings about Naam simran as he himself was not doing Naam simran.

Only that person can tell you the taste of it who has done it himself/herself. Sikhi is not a lecture but experience.

[S1ngh]

It is good to see missionary ideologist on board and we can see what their beliefs are.

So far, Johal Saab here is stating and trying to prove that respecting Mahan Sikhs like Bhai veer Singh is equal to some punjabi folks following some baba like sirsa or many others.

Here's the game:

1. Trying hard to label all respectful Sikh personalities such as bhai randhir singh, bhai vir singh, rarasahib walay, rampurkhera sahib walay into same category of thugs such as noormael, sirsa saadh wala.

2. They gather support from naive punjabi Sikhs both abroad and india who don't know much about sikhi. They tell them that all these "babay" are the cause of problems in our Kaum.

3. Why they do that? The only reason is that somewhere in our short history these Sikh personalities wrote a book or shared their opinions on certain subjects (such as dasam Granth, naam simran, Nitnem, amritvela) which these missionaries or off-shoot branch of missionaries-kala afghani are totally against and spread their koor uneducated low grade propaganda.

[gurdeepsinghjohal]

Prof Sahib Singh to be very specific.

Get your own meaning of saas giraas or sovat and look into Guru Granth Sahib for more.

And that experience is whole and properly compiled in Guru Granth Sahib and to the perfection the concept of Naam and Abhiaas is described.

[gurdeepsinghjohal]

It is good to see missionary ideologist on board and we can see what their beliefs are.

So far, Johal Saab here is stating and trying to prove that respecting Mahan Sikhs like Bhai veer Singh is equal to some punjabi folks following some baba like sirsa or many others.

Here's the game:

1. Trying hard to label all respectful Sikh personalities such as bhai randhir singh, bhai vir singh, rarasahib walay, rampurkhera sahib walay into same category of thugs such as noormael, sirsa saadh wala.

2. They gather support from naive punjabi Sikhs both abroad and india who don't know much about sikhi. They tell them that all these "babay" are the cause of problems in our Kaum.

3. Why they do that? The only reason is that somewhere in our short history these Sikh personalities wrote a book or shared their opinions on certain subjects (such as dasam Granth, naam simran, Nitnem, amritvela) which these missionaries or off-shoot branch of missionaries-kala afghani are totally against and spread their koor uneducated low grade propaganda.

Naam simran is the unknown thing for most of those people who just stick with One time simran.

I am here with my own opinion.

[S1ngh]

I don't think you have your opinion at all veerji. Don't deny the fact that you are more leaned toward Sikh missionary college ideology. I spent some time with this rogue institution so I know who and what they are and how they brainwash others. i respect you as an individual and I hope others also do but don't think that you won't see any friction here by attacking the core principle of sikhi, which is naam abiyaas.