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Singh123456777

Total Mockery Against Ragmalla!

34 posts in this topic

http://gurmatbibek.c...ead.php?3,22532

These people are going way out of hand by disrespecting gurbani like this.They are against raag mala but going way out of hand by writing poems degrading it is really foolish.I can accept the fact that people don't believe in raag mala but disrespecting it is another story.

YOU GUYS CANNOT SILENCE ME!(maybe you guys can but i will keep on posting this topic till it will be discussed!)

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Ok veer, relax!!!!!!

I did reply to your PM to me about this. I did raise my concern at the Gurmat Bibek forum as well and eventually the thread there was locked. I understand it can be offensive to GurSikhs, so I requested you to please contact the admins at Gurmat Bibek regarding this issue. Mai tuhanu kush galt keha si?

I promise you, we will not allow or tolerate any such disrespect here.

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I heard what you said but i did not like what the admins did.They are trying to be like syria by silencing there victims.

Thats the reason why i posted it again.

Dont worry mehtab singh i still your friend :lol2:

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Singh12345678,

I don't think such dis-respect would be tolerated here as mehtab singh suggested. In fact, original poster on that website thread is either put on quality control or banned from sikhsangat..as far as i know by searching the archives..so its ok veer..thats glimpse of overzealous cultish chela for you..you will find quite bit of them in your life...its just human nature....its ok..lets all focus on ourselves ..!!!

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Can't we respectfully disagree?

I believe in Raag Maala and have no reason to believe otherwise, but I don't think we should post such things that will cause further divisions. If people don't want to believe in Raag Malaa, if i'm not mistaken, it is their choice and I personally think they should be gupt about it and not create problems.

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Yeah, its one thing to not believe, one thing to disagree, but insulting is crossing the limit.

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Hell yea

We are all united.

I have no problem with people who don't believe raag mala but someone insulting it is another story!

I know you still my phrend. I also jor phrend still.

Yes vee all phrends!

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Waheguru! I wish people understood the consequences of Guru-ninda. Guru Saheb samatt bakshan.

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Can't we respectfully disagree?

I believe in Raag Maala and have no reason to believe otherwise, but I don't think we should post such things that will cause further divisions. If people don't want to believe in Raag Malaa, if i'm not mistaken, it is their choice and I personally think they should be gupt about it and not create problems.

Hypocrisy...darsan lal is wrong for denying dasam bani...but if you reject sri raagmaala bani it seems to be ok and acceptable?..where is the logic in that?

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Hypocrisy...darsan lal is wrong for denying dasam bani...but if you reject sri raagmaala bani it seems to be ok and acceptable?..where is the logic in that?

I guess Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib are hypocrites.

Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib said darshan lal is tankhaiya and I'm pretty sure Akaal Takhat Sahib said it's up to the individual whether or not they want to read/believe in Raag Maala.

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It's important to post all sides of this issue if people want an open discussion. It's sad that I feel reluctant to post this because I know the reaction from many of the members as saying "these people were protestant or these people were this or these people were that".

Live and let live and stand only by Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib.

http://www.panthic.org/articles/5287

Iqbal Singh Edict labels Ramgala non-readers as great sinners and manmukh

In addition to making Ramgala obligatory, Giani Iqbal Singh’s edict also labeled those who do not recite it as “maha-paapi” (great sinners) and manmukhs.

In a telephone conversation with a Panthic.org correspondent Giani Iqbal Singh was asked whether he considered great Gurmukhs such as Maha-Kavi Santokh Singh, Giani Gian Singh, Giani Ditt Singh, Prof. Gurmukh Singh (founders of Singh Sabha Movement), Sant Teja Singh Manstuana, Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, Bhai Randhir Singh Ji Narangwal, Prof. Sahib Singh, Bhai Randhir Singh Ji Research Scholar, Dr. Trilochan Singh, Shaheed Bhai Fauja Singh, Shaheed Bhai Anokh Singh Babbar, Shaheed Bhai Sukhdev Singh Babbar and countless others who did not recite Ragmala as ‘maha-pappi’ or ‘manmukh’ ?

PanthicGurmukh_and_Shaheeds_NRM.jpg

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What proof does anybody have that maha kavi santhok singh didnt read raag mala?

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It's important to post all sides of this issue if people want an open discussion. It's sad that I feel reluctant to post this because I know the reaction from many of the members as saying "these people were protestant or these people were this or these people were that".

Live and let live and stand only by Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib.

http://www.panthic.org/articles/5287

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PanthicGurmukh_and_Shaheeds_NRM.jpg

What proof do you have that maha kavi santhok singh didnt read raag mala?

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What proof does anybody have that maha kavi santhok singh didnt read raag mala?

Great, I'm a bit relieved that a question came out of my post. If we can't openly discuss such issues, we're bound to fail.

From what Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha wrote (source pathahi10) is that when Sri Dasam Granth Sahib was sent to Guru Ki Kaanshi Sri Damdama Sahib Talwandi Sabho there was a controversy whether or not Sri Dasam Granth Sahib was to be split or not into Pothian. Bhai Sukha Singh (I think dada ji of Rattan Singh Bhangu) said if I go and cut off the head of Massa Rangarh and come back alive this Granth will stay Sampooran and will not be changed at all. Everyone said satbachan and it happened and to this day Sri Dasam Granth Sahib is complete.

I'm assuming in Suraj Parkash it says that Kavi Santokh Singh Ji didn't read it, but I don't know the source myself, I will ask around...

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The point of that story is to show that it could be possible that Kavi Santokh Singh Ji didn't read it, but I do not know for sure.

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I guess Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib are hypocrites.

Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib said darshan lal is tankhaiya and I'm pretty sure Akaal Takhat Sahib said it's up to the individual whether or not they want to read/believe in Raag Maala.

O lord...O dear Lord

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Kavi Santokh Singh Ji wrote this

"Raagmala is not Baani of Guru Sahib. Only up to Mundaavni is Gurbani; don’t doubt this statement and don’t let any cloud of doubt come in front of your eyes. A book named Maadhavaanal was written by Poet Aalam, this Raagmala is part of that book (the Niratkaari chapter of it. Niratkaari means dance. Raagmala appears in the scene when Kaam Kandhala the dancer dances and sings a song in front of the king while Madhavnal watches and plays instruments). Aalam Kavi has written the names of Raags and Raagnis that were sung at that time. Therefore, this baani is not the work of Siri Guru Arjan Dev Ji.||40||"

Sri Gur Partaap Sooraj Granth' (pages 430-431)

The Gurmukhi won't copy paste properly, but here it is.

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Why is raag mala in every single bir out there then?

I still believe that he would have read it and loved it.Maha kavi ji also said that guru gobind singh ji wore earnings.How can that be right.He was bound to make some mistakes.Only guru can be perfect.I think that sri suraj prtaap granth is 90 percent correct.Not 100 but 90.

Sri gur bilass patshahiee 6 wrote "paavahu bhog, raag mala parh. sab paap jaae tumarae sarh." (adhyae 8)

"raagan kee benti suni sri guru arjan sukh khaan. raag mala tab hee rachee..."

when talking about rehit of akhaand paath after someone dies, it is written in gurbilaas:

"pavaho bhog raag mala parh. chhin mehi jaae paap ta kae sarh"

That was written ten years prior to guru ji leaving for sachkhand.Sri gur prtaap surj granth was written in the eight hundreds.Look at the difference in the dates and who were still around.Baba deep singh ji was baba mani singh ji was etc so some things in sri gur prtaap suraj granth are not 100 percent to be trusted.

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Why is raag mala in every single bir out there then?

I still believe that he would have read it and loved it.Maha kavi ji also said that guru gobind singh ji wore earnings.How can that be right.He was bound to make some mistakes.Only guru can be perfect.I think that sri suraj prtaap granth is 90 percent correct.Not 100 but 90.

Sri gur bilass patshahiee 6 wrote "paavahu bhog, raag mala parh. sab paap jaae tumarae sarh." (adhyae 8)

"raagan kee benti suni sri guru arjan sukh khaan. raag mala tab hee rachee..."

when talking about rehit of akhaand paath after someone dies, it is written in gurbilaas:

"pavaho bhog raag mala parh. chhin mehi jaae paap ta kae sarh"

That was written ten years prior to guru ji leaving for sachkhand.Sri gur prtaap surj granth was written in the eight hundreds.Look at the difference in the dates and who were still around.Baba deep singh ji was baba mani singh ji was etc so some things in sri gur prtaap suraj granth are not 100 percent to be trusted.

By questioning even 1% of a historic piece, you in effect question it all. Sad, but it's the truth.

It's easier to make excuses to account for things that we don't like, but to look at history for what it is is much harder because you have to rationalize it and accept differences.

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By questioning even 1% of a historic piece, you in effect question it all. Sad, but it's the truth.

You think guru ji wore earrings then?Guru gobind singh ji said never to have any piercings at all.

Im stating the truth.I believe 90 percent of it.

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Kavi Santokh Singh Ji wrote this

"Raagmala is not Baani of Guru Sahib. Only up to Mundaavni is Gurbani; don’t doubt this statement and don’t let any cloud of doubt come in front of your eyes. A book named Maadhavaanal was written by Poet Aalam, this Raagmala is part of that book (the Niratkaari chapter of it. Niratkaari means dance. Raagmala appears in the scene when Kaam Kandhala the dancer dances and sings a song in front of the king while Madhavnal watches and plays instruments). Aalam Kavi has written the names of Raags and Raagnis that were sung at that time. Therefore, this baani is not the work of Siri Guru Arjan Dev Ji.||40||"

Sri Gur Partaap Sooraj Granth' (pages 430-431)

The Gurmukhi won't copy paste properly, but here it is.

ਇਹ ਸੁਧ ਨਹੀ ਲਿਖੀ ਇਹ ਗੁਰੁ ਨੇ, ਕਿਧੋ ਸਿਖ ਕਾਹੂ ਲਿਖ ਦੀਨ॥

ਰਾਗਮਾਲ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਹਿ, ਹੈ ਮੁੰਦਾਵਣੀ ਲਗਿ ਗੁਰ ਬੈਨ॥

ਇਸ ਮਹਿ ਨਹਿ ਸੰਸੈ ਕੁਛ ਕਰੀਅਹਿ ਜੇ ਸੰਸੈ ਆਵਿ ਲੋਕਹੁ ਨੈਨ॥

ਮਾਧਵ ਨਲ ਆਲਮ ਕਵਿ ਕੀਨਸ ਤਿਸ ਮੈਂ ਨ੍ਰਿਤਕਾਰੀ ਕਹਿ ਤੈਨ॥

(ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਤਾਪ ਸੂਰਯ, ਰਾਸਿ 3, ਅੰਸਿ 49)

That is what you are trying to find.

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Sorry this forum doesnt allow me to post it the pankti

"If scholars 150-200 years after kavi sohan singh's time stopped believing in raag mala, then that is their own mistake, but gurbilaas clearly shows that raag mala was accepted 10 years after guru gobind singh ji's joti jot. Bhai vir singh has already countered what bhai santokh singh wrote about alam writing raag mala, and has compared the 2 different raag malas and has shown how they are different. I love listening to suraj prakash katha, but kavi bhai santokh singh was wrong on some topics, including writing that guru gobind singh ji wore earings and that raag mala isnt bani."

I found this.

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Post the website/link of the Gurmukhi.

Best post ever by ms514 on the same thread you copy pasted that from ^

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

So let's recap:

OH MY GOD, RAAG MALAA IS GURBANI.

HECK NO, IT IS NOT GURBANI.

IS SO.

IS NOT.

IS SO.

IS NOT.

SOME GYANI SAID SO.

ANOTHER GYANI SAID NOT.

OH YEAH?

YEAH!

Sangat, one thing I do not understand. If this debate has been going on for the past who knows how many years and has done NOTHING BUT DIVIDE THE PANTH, then why continue to engage in it. In this respect, the Akal Thakt Maryada took the high road, said print it in every Saroop and let the reader make a personal choice as the Panth has not taken a decision on it.

So until that day, how about we do just that...make your choice to read it or not and love your Gursikh brother and sister. Be the BIGGER person, learn to respect other people's choices and move on. Otherwise, besides making your brothers and sisters angry at you, you have achieved exactly what?

Raag Malaa, be it Gurbani or not, does not lessen the message of the Guru Granth Sahib does it? It is not like all of the kamai of doing one Paath of Guru Sahib is made completely void by reading Raag Malaa...if this was true, all the other nonsense we read throughout the day would make us go to hell (let's not debate hell now...you get the point).

Benti, let it go. Of course, this is until the next time another person starts the Raag Malaa debate.

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Post the website/link of the Gurmukhi.

Best post ever by ms514 on the same thread you copy pasted that from ^

[/size][/font][/color]

Me and you still phrends?

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