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I don't think you can compare Taksal putting Gurbani of "Gharaiei Shabad Sachi Taksal" to nirmale as Taksal isn't a sect or offshoot of the Sikh Panth. They are like the formal University of Sikhi. It's like keeping a standard of Gurmat formally even though each Sikh should be knowledgeable of Sikhi. With that said, it is clear that even honorable jathebandis can be infiltrated with people with bad intentions so it's not the Jathebandi itself that makes the followers of the jathebandi, it's the Khalsa who represent it and ensure it lives up to what it is meant to be.

Dera ram rahim banaras ka thug from sacha sauda (choota sauda) disrespects and misinterprets Gurbani like using the Pangtis from Gurbani "Har Kiyan Katha Kahanian Gurmeet Sunaiyaan" to say Guru Ji is referring to a mere individual. They also try to say Gurbani is referring to the actual sirsa when Gurbani says "Sant Sajan Bhaye Sarse Poore Gur Te Jaane". There are two kinds of wrongs here, someone who outright discredits something without logical thought/respect and someone who deliberately misinterprets something to fit manmat.

Yes, Sikhs don't believe in imposing their own views on anyone and allow for other schools of thought, but equally Sikhs also have a right to clear up made up history that has no basis at all. Especially when Gurbani, Bhai Gurdas Ji Dian Vaaran, Sikh history and Sant/Mahapursh say otherwise.

What we'll find out going on in Punjab is dirty politics. I think we all understand this. Through money or an unnamed favor under the table people are selling their dharam to please others and try to change what Sikh history is.

I'd just like to say I'm not from any Jathebandi, but instead take good from all as all have something to offer. This is my way of ensuring I stay true and don't look at something as false as true and something as true as false.

edit- Can you provide historical reference to say that Guru Gobind Singh Ji dressed up any sadhu bana? I don't believe this for a second . Reading the Bir Ras banis from Sri Dasam Granth Sahib and the history of our 10 Gurus, it is clear that even Guru Nanak Dev Ji said becoming a sadhu does not get you to God. This is the same Guru Sahib Ji that said to get my blessing come adorned with Shastar and learn to hunt and become warriors and only then will you get my blessings.

If someone only Japs Naam and doesn't do kirat kamai and sewa/Sarbat Da Bhalla then what is the point of getting this life. Becoming a Sadhu doesn't get you closer to God. I think this claim of Guru Gobind Singh Ji wearing a Sadhu Bana and blessing some sect is based on solely modern day interpretation and struggle to legitimize their sect that is an offshoot from Sikhi. No historical reference can confirm this as far as I know.

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I don't think you can compare Taksal putting Gurbani of "Gharaiei Shabad Sachi Taksal" to nirmale as Taksal isn't a sect or offshoot of the Sikh Panth. They are like the formal University of Sikhi.

Singh its best to ask the person who makes these accusations to first to tell you if he actually asked why the Taksal writes Gharaiei Shabad Sachi Taksal from a actual student of Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Maharaj on steeks. I can bet you this poster has made an assumptions to why they write Gharaiei Shabad Sachi Taksal. After all this same poster was flaunting the same video of Hari Singh Randhawa as the ultimate truth on udasis and Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj, but at the end Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji showed it was only Hari Singh`s intrepretation of shabads and his teacher did not agree for one second. Some don't do the research and rather produce videos of what their mind set is.

Ask yourself who gave Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Maharaj to start Dharm Yudh Morcha? Many people can make up their theories on who gave him the right. And many of them will say he just decided himself one day or would say something along the line of.....it was because of the situation. Both assumptions are wrong and they are nothing more than opinions on who or why Sant ji started dharm Yudh Morcha. Remember we are talking about Brahmgyanis here, Sant Baba Gurbachan SIngh ji Maharaj and Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Maharaj. They obeyed to Hukam, they lived in Hukam and were completely blessed with Satguru's grace.

Don`t jump the gun. Ask for a recording or some kind of proof for what the person is saying.

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I don't get what the big fuss is over this Hari Singh Randhawa and all those people who are falling over themselves claiming he's a Mahanpurush or Brahmgyani. He is fooling the common Sikhs by trying to claim that Guru Nanak started the Udasis and Nirmalas. He is doing this twisting Gurbani. From what videos I have seen of him, and thanks to our resident Neo with his trusty Brahmgiani radar, he appears a major FAKE. No doubt people will come on here and start writing about his bhagti and what he has done for Sikhi but the video proves he is someone with an agenda.

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I don't think you can compare Taksal putting Gurbani of "Gharaiei Shabad Sachi Taksal" to nirmale as Taksal isn't a sect or offshoot of the Sikh Panth. They are like the formal University of Sikhi. It's like keeping a standard of Gurmat formally even though each Sikh should be knowledgeable of Sikhi.

Off course we can compare. They are both orders, equally valuable in the panth. Nirmale are not off shot of anyone. Damdami taksal branch itself is consider cousin of Nirmale because of nirmale influences. Please read lifes of mahapursh in damdami taksal prior to 1900's such as sant sunder singh ji bhindranwale, sant bishan singh ji- they all had nirmale teachers all dressed in sadhu bana (white). They are deep rooted Nirmale order. Damdami taksal and Nirmale cross platform all the time thats how seamless their realtionship is..great sants like sant bishan singh ji muralewale and sant sunder singh ji all had nirmale teachers. Sant bishan singh ji is even consider nirmala...all damdami taksal mahapursh have intertwined/cross platform relationship with nirmale except for sant kartar singh ji bhindranwale and sant jarnail singh ji bhindranwale as per according to time of dharam yudh morcha.

Dera ram rahim banaras ka thug from sacha sauda (choota sauda) disrespects and misinterprets Gurbani like using the Pangtis from Gurbani "Har Kiyan Katha Kahanian Gurmeet Sunaiyaan" to say Guru Ji is referring to a mere individual. They also try to say Gurbani is referring to the actual sirsa when Gurbani says "Sant Sajan Bhaye Sarse Poore Gur Te Jaane". There are two kinds of wrongs here, someone who outright discredits something without logical thought/respect and someone who deliberately misinterprets something to fit manmat.Can you provide historical reference to say that Guru Gobind Singh Ji dressed up any sadhu bana? I don't believe this for a second . Reading the Bir Ras banis from Sri Dasam Granth Sahib and the history of our 10 Gurus, it is clear that even Guru Nanak Dev Ji said becoming a sadhu does not get you to God. This is the same Guru Sahib Ji that said to get my blessing come adorned with Shastar and learn to hunt and become warriors and only then will you get my blessings

It's highly offensive and unfortunate, that people with equate nirmale with dera jhota sauda. Nirmale are not sect but an order an lineage. Off course, its hard to see during current times because they have been demoralized and demonized as sant hari singh ji pointed in the video.

I know you have already seen history video of nirmale. Both let me remind you all orginal panj were blessed by sri guru gobind singh ji to go and learn vidya and spread it, When they came back. They all taken amrit where put under guidance of bhai dya singh ji and bhai dharam singh ji

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself dressed in sadhu bhana not premanently but when they blessed nirmale to do parchar. First of all, he does not need permission from us to dress up any uniform. He is guru avtar, he can dress whichever way he wishes. If sikhs have problem with sri guru gobind singh ji dressing up as sadhu symbolic form to start nirmale order, then they probably have issue of sri guru gobind singh ji previous life as dusth daman listed in bachitar natak, as sri guru gobind singh ji himself was maha rishi or sadhu in his previous life.

Anyway going back to nirmal order, there were two major nirmale orders were started - formally started by Bhai Dya Singh Ji And Bhai Dharam Singh Ji under guidance of sri guru gobind singh ji.

24 upsamparada's/sub-section of Nirmala exist today all came from- Bhai Dya Singh Ji (13 sub sections) and Bhai Dharam Singh Ji (11 sub sections).

For eg

- From bha dya singh ji you have- rara sahib samparda, hoti mardan samparda, harkhowal samparda etc

- Similarly from Bhai dharam singh ji you have 11 sub branches.

With regards to finding out more about the different sampardas i suggest you read, Sikh Sampardavali by Piara Singh Padam, Bharat Mat Darpan by Mahant Ganesha Ji and the Mahan Kosh by Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha

Also see an glimpse beautiful pictorial form of nirmale order - please see attached to understand further.

Nirmale order is as important as damdami taksal order(lineage). One comes from bhai dya singh ji and bhai dharam singh ji (two of panj pyres) and other- taksal comes from baba deep singh ji/bhai mani singh ji. They cross platform all the time, the relationship is soo seamlesss.

If damdami taksal had produced great bhramgyani yodhas like- baba deep singh ji, bhai mani singh ji, sant jarnail singh bhindranwale.

Nirmale have equally produced great bhramgyani yodhas like- baba sahib singh ji bedi, baba maharaj singh ji nurangabad, baba bir singh ji nurangabad.

Youths need to realize, sikhi didn't started with dhan dhan bhramgyani yodha sant jarnail singh bhindranwale and not would end there, youths need to be stop being soo cultish and open up their horizon- there is soo much history of other bhramgyanis yodhas which is being missed..!!!

It's quite sad and unfortunate, people don't even know history of great warriors bhramgyanis yodhas from the past.

post-24251-0-18720800-1346337981_thumb.j

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Now going back to orginal topic udasi, just wanted to mention, its pretty evident op does seem to have some issue with sant hari singh ji randhawale, one can tell by op shabadavali use regarding sant hari singh, its pretty evident as sant hari singh ji choose bhai harnam singh dhumma as next jathedar. It's for same vary reason, op was advised on another udasi thread- take sant hari singh ji out of equation, forget that he even exist and go out tofind another top student of sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale to counter what - sant hari singh ji randhawale saying on topic of baba sri chand maharaj. I can say with full conviction - all 31 students of sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale though differs on others minor things but holds pretty same and consistent views when it comes to udasi samparda and dhan dhan dhan baba sri chand maharaj.

The whole sant mandali along students of sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale plus sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranwale himself stands united on baba sri chand maharaj (how they came back in Gurmat, were top bhramgyani/satpursh with kirpa of satguru nanak himself)..!!

So just to reiterate:

So yeah, here is the list of few top students out of many of sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranwale, go out and search any of the students who can counter what sant hari singh ji randhawale said in the video-

1) Sant Harnaam Singh Jee Paatshah, Chakarvartee who taught Gurmat Vidya at Village Jogewal, District Faridkot. They made many into Shud Paatis ( those that can recite Gurbani correctly), and joined a lot of Sangat with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee.

2) Sachkand Vaasi Sri Maan Bhagat Ujjagger Singh Jee

3) Giani Daleep Singh, Katha Vaachik at Gurdwara ManJee Sahib, Sri Amritsar Sahib

4) Sri Maan Giani Mohan Singh Jee, who is doing Gurmat Parchar with a Jatha of Singhs

5) Singh Sahib Giani Kirpal Singh, Head Granthi Sri Darbar Sahib, and Jathedar Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib, Sri Amritsar Sahib

6) Singh Sahib Giani Mani Singh Jee, Granthi Sri Darbar Sahib, Sri Amritsar Sahib

7) Sachkand Vasi Singh Sahib Giani Kapoor Singh Jee, Head Granthi Sri Darbar Sahib Jee

8) Baba Mehar Singh Jee Birakat, Village Mandiala, District Gurdaspur, who made many into Shud Paatis of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee

9) Giani Amar Singh Jee Kritee, Village Maloo ka Fatha, who made countless Singhs into Shud Paatis

10)Giani Mehinder Singh Jee Paniaalee, Granthi at Sri Kesgarh Sahib, Sri Anandpur Sahib

11)Giani Joginder Singh Jee, Guru Kaa Baagh

12)Giani Karam Singh Jee, Garhvaiee ( personal assistant) from Calcutta

13)Giani Preetam Singh Jee, Sarhand Mandee

14)Giani Swarn Singh Jee, Takarvaal

15)Sachkand Vaasi Giani Nand Singh Jee, Rairoo Sahib

16)Sachkand Vaasi Giani Gujan Singh Jee, Jasowal

17)Giani Preetam Singh Jee, Nairobee

18)Giani Niranjan Singh Jee, Sraai

19)Giani Gurbachan Singh Jee Raagi, Upalhairee

20)Giani Bhagwan Singh Jee, Maarhee Mega

21)Giani Balwant Singh Jee, Who did Seva in Africa

22)Giani Joginder Singh Jee Kahaarpuree

23)Giani InderJeet Singh Jee

24)Giani Prataap Singh Jee Langhiaana

25)Giani Meva Singh Jee, Kathavaachik Kaindree Sri Gur Singh Sabha, Sri Amritsar Sahib

26)Giani Kirpal Singh Jee Boparai

27)Giani Baldev Singh Jee, Head Granthi Gurdwara Fatehgarh Sahib, Patiala

28)Giani Nahar Singh Jee, Head Granthi Gurdwara Dookh Niwaran Sahib, Patiala

29)Vaid Niranjan Singh Jee Mahant Gurdwara Boparai, Ludhiana

30)Giani Pooran Singh Jee Dehli

31)Giani Preetam Singh Jee Africa

Sant Jee’s Writings

Sant Jee was a big scholar, at the same time they were a great poet as well. Their book Sri Gurmukh Prakash is written all in poetry form is about the life of Sant Sundar Singh Jee, this book is a big treasure chest of knowledge. Gurbani Paat Darshan has a lot of the vishrams and ucharans of hard Banis. In the beginning of this book Sant Jee has written all about rehat maryada.

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To clear up the accusation i have a problem with Hari Singh Randhawa. Many months back i was writing on Dr. I.J. Singh's written articles. I presented here that Dr. I.J. Singh has made many mistakes in his articles separately over couple of months. I was also accused of hating Dr. I.J. Singh at the time because at times i would write in aggressive tone. Another time i was accused of hating someone else was against 3HO Sikhs and Sikhnet. Yet again i showed i was aggressively countering their baseless claims and practices. I even donated to Sikhnet awhile back, but after learning they are moving away from Gurmat and promoting their own ideas, then i stopped donating. I have even in the past posted videos of Hari Singh Randhawa, where he has proven to speak with Gurmat, which Sant ji stands by.

This is just an attack on me because those that support Hari Singh Randhawa can't swallow the truth of the mistakes Hari Singh Randhawa made in the video. If i was a Taksal Singh, then wouldn't i agree with Bhai Gurmukh Singhs actions of throwing himself on the cremation fire of Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Maharaj? Infact some Taksal Singhs would be the first ones to say i am not taksal Singh for speaking against Bhai Gurmukh Singh actions. To make it clear as day............i am not a Taksal Singh.

When they don't have an answer, then attack the person and hope others will forget about what the original post was about.

In clear english: This is not an attack on Hari Singh Randhawa, but a reponse to his baseless claims.

If someone has something to add that will add to the original post and direct us toward Gurmat, then please post. Otherwise.........don't let the window hit you on the way out. This is not much to ask for. At least leave one thread without your hearsay and produce some evidence.

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