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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Sangat Ji as I was doing path from Maharaj, I came across a tuk on ang 83.

ਮਃ ੨ ॥

Ma 2 ||

Second Mehl:

ਜਿਸੁ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਸਿਉ ਨੇਹੁ ਤਿਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਮਰਿ ਚਲੀਐ ॥

Jis Piaarae Sio Naehu This Aagai Mar Chaleeai ||

Die before the one whom you love;

ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਜੀਵਣੁ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ ਤਾ ਕੈ ਪਾਛੈ ਜੀਵਣਾ ॥੨॥

Dhhrig Jeevan Sansaar Thaa Kai Paashhai Jeevanaa ||2||

To live after he dies is to live a worthless life in this world. ||2||

Can someone please explain the context of this tuk?

Bhul Chuk Maaf

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waheguru ji.....I am not very learned, but I can share a real incident of Sant Baba Balwant Singh ji Urmur Tandewale....

When Baba ji left his physical body, more than 2 singhs (don't kow exact numbers) sacrificed their lives with him as they could not bear the "vichorha"....1-2 of them jumped directly into the "chita".......

in simple means when you love someone beyond limits, you can not live without him, you'll obviously pray or wish to die before the one you love..........if you are living after your pritam is gone that means you didn't love him that much........in other words,,,,,, ik saah vi apne pyare ton bina laina.....how is it possible.......

(to clarify.... every sevak has their own avastha and "jobs" assigned by Guru Sahib that needs to be completed......like is preetam dies and sevak is still alive means pritam has some job for sevak to complete, it doesn't mean sevak (pahunchia hoyiaan roohaan) did not have enough preet for his pritam) for eg. Guru Nanak Dev ji de ohla den baad Guru Angad dev ji, Guru Angad dev ji de ola den te Guru Amardas ji layi vichorha aseh c....they were living physically with athah vairaag, even isolated themselves, but they were physically alive because they have jobs to do..........

Now if we see it from a deeper perpective........je pyare di yaad visar jaye ta eh aatma kiwein jeeondi reh sakdi hai.........jis aatma, rooh, mann,shareer vich pyare di preet nahin, us naalon mar jana changa.........how can a person forget the one who he loves more than anything and everything.........

I apologize to Guru sahib, if I wrote anything wrong, waheguru ji summat bakhshan, (Hau kya salaahein kiram jant, vadi teri vadeaayi) I am sure there are many learnt gurmukh pyares in this forum who can explain better .......

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waheguru ji.....I am not very learned, but I can share a real incident of Sant Baba Balwant Singh ji Urmur Tandewale....

When Baba ji left his physical body, more than 2 singhs (don't kow exact numbers) sacrificed their lives with him as they could not bear the "vichorha"....1-2 of them jumped directly into the "chita".......

ਮਃ ੨ ॥

मः २ ॥

Mėhlā 2.

Second Mehl:

ਜਿਸੁ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਸਿਉ ਨੇਹੁ ਤਿਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਮਰਿ ਚਲੀਐ ॥

जिसु पिआरे सिउ नेहु तिसु आगै मरि चलीऐ ॥

Jis pi▫āre si▫o nehu ṯis āgai mar cẖalī▫ai.

Die before the one whom you love;

ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਜੀਵਣੁ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ ਤਾ ਕੈ ਪਾਛੈ ਜੀਵਣਾ ॥੨॥

ध्रिगु जीवणु संसारि ता कै पाछै जीवणा ॥२॥

Ḏẖarig jīvaṇ sansār ṯā kai pācẖẖai jīvṇā. ||2||

to live after he dies is to live a worthless life in this world. ||2||

ਪਉੜੀ ॥

पउड़ी ॥

Pa▫oṛī.

Pauree:

ਤੁਧੁ ਆਪੇ ਧਰਤੀ ਸਾਜੀਐ ਚੰਦੁ ਸੂਰਜੁ ਦੁਇ ਦੀਵੇ ॥

तुधु आपे धरती साजीऐ चंदु सूरजु दुइ दीवे ॥

Ŧuḏẖ āpe ḏẖarṯī sājī▫ai cẖanḏ sūraj ḏu▫e ḏīve.

You Yourself created the earth, and the two lamps of the sun and the moon.

ਦਸ ਚਾਰਿ ਹਟ ਤੁਧੁ ਸਾਜਿਆ ਵਾਪਾਰੁ ਕਰੀਵੇ ॥

दस चारि हट तुधु साजिआ वापारु करीवे ॥

Ḏas cẖār hat ṯuḏẖ sāji▫ā vāpār karīve.

You created the fourteen world-shops, in which Your Business is transacted.

ਇਕਨਾ ਨੋ ਹਰਿ ਲਾਭੁ ਦੇਇ ਜੋ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਥੀਵੇ ॥

इकना नो हरि लाभु देइ जो गुरमुखि थीवे ॥

Iknā no har lābẖ ḏe▫e jo gurmukẖ thīve.

The Lord bestows His Profits on those who become Gurmukh.

ਤਿਨ ਜਮਕਾਲੁ ਨ ਵਿਆਪਈ ਜਿਨ ਸਚੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਵੇ ॥

तिन जमकालु न विआपई जिन सचु अम्रितु पीवे ॥

Ŧin jamkāl na vi▫āpa▫ī jin sacẖ amriṯ pīve.

The Messenger of Death does not touch those who drink in the True Ambrosial Nectar.

ਓਇ ਆਪਿ ਛੁਟੇ ਪਰਵਾਰ ਸਿਉ ਤਿਨ ਪਿਛੈ ਸਭੁ ਜਗਤੁ ਛੁਟੀਵੇ ॥੩॥

ओइ आपि छुटे परवार सिउ तिन पिछै सभु जगतु छुटीवे ॥३॥

O▫e āp cẖẖute parvār si▫o ṯin picẖẖai sabẖ jagaṯ cẖẖutīve. ||3||

They themselves are saved, along with their family, and all those who follow them are saved as well. ||3||

The Gurbani which the oringinal poster posted is not supporting manmat acts, which you express above. This is the dangers of following a jatha and not following Gurbani. People get so sucked into following a certain jatha and think everything the jathas people do is true and holy. Gurbani is the highest superior authority.

If a person reads the whole shabad, then it becomes clear Satguru is speaking about a person's ant kaal (last moment on this planet). Satguru is telling us wake up Sikhs and realize Satguru's teaching, before your ant kaal comes. The sun and moon only matter to a person as long as the person lives in this human body. Satguru says those who have reached the state of Gurmukh go and save their family and those who follow the Gurmukhs teachings.

I don't know who is Sant Baba Balwant Singh ji is, but let's say for a second he was a Gurmukh; jivan mukht. By your understanding of the tuk then Sant Baba Balwant Singh ji is dead, yet you refer to him as a Sant.

ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਜੀਵਣੁ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ ਤਾ ਕੈ ਪਾਛੈ ਜੀਵਣਾ ॥੨॥

ध्रिगु जीवणु संसारि ता कै पाछै जीवणा ॥२॥

Ḏẖarig jīvaṇ sansār ṯā kai pācẖẖai jīvṇā. ||2||

to live after he dies is to live a worthless life in this world. ||2||

Obviously the tuk is not speaking about Guru Sahib because Guru Sahib never dies or leaves this world. And obviously this tuk can't be speaking about any Gurmukh because they never die or leave this world, they are ever present emerged in Satguru with Akaaaal Akaal on their tongue.

Another reason to show that this pankti is not speaking about what you said is because the first tuk says die before NOT after the one you love. Again this tuk can't apply to Gurmukhs because they never die, they are above kaal. The english translation is misleading here and doesn't help a contemplator get the true message of Guru Sahib.

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You see the beauty of gurbani is that it speaks to multi dimension level surtiya on different different level (avastha etc)..so thats why gurbani never meant to have one interpretation as its speaks to different level avastha.

I think based on surti case above there, gurbani tuk is perceiving it as about physical death (tyaag of panj bhootak chola)..the actual vichora of pritam pyara(murshid) and his student(murid). It's make sense if we look at it from physical death point of view.

There is an similiar sakhi - pyaar between bhai gurmukh singh aurdesa and sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale

Dhan Dhan Guru pyare like bhai gurmukh singh aurdesa who jumped into pyre or cremation of Dhan Dhan Dhan sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale panj bhootak chola.

Premiya di khed premi jandaie neh.

I will try to find katha by sant jarnail singh bhindranwale on bhai gurmukh singh aurdesa and post it here. Basically there is full story behind at it, bhai gurmukh singh ji didn't just jump, it was meant to be - bhai gurmukh singh aurdesa mentioned this gyani gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale prior to this act..at the end baba gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale- naal hi aaji gurmukha pher....read below for more info!!

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Here is breif sketch of Bhai Gurmukh Singh's Life:

The Life of Gurmukh Singh Aurdeesa

Gurmukh Singh Aurdeesa, was by birth a Hindu and born into a poor Hindu family. Coming from a poor family he was made at an early age to leave home in search of work and moved around before settling down in Calcutta.

Due to good deeds in his past lives Gurmukh Singh would visit various Gurdwara Sahibs and with utmost devotion and love do Seva in the Langar of washing the dirty pots and pans. It was with such good Karm that Gurmukh Singh found Sangat of many famous sadhus’s and saints. It was this same good Karm that brought Gurmukh Singh into the sangat where he heard the glorious praises of Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji recited by such holy Sikh Saints as those of Sant Baba Ajaib Singh Ji, and learned of Gurmat and the Gurmat way from the spiritually uplifting dharna Kirtan and Katha of Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji (Rara Sahib).

The darshan and sangat of such great Sikh Mahpursh (Saints) led, Gurmukh Singh’s mind to be filled with Gurmat and Gursikhi thoughts. Even while being Hindu, Gurmukh Singh started to keep his Kes (hair) and started to lead a life in accordance with Gurmat.

Everyday after spending a laborious day at work in the factory Gurmukh Singh would come and devote whatever time he had, to the service of the Sangat at the Gurdwara Sahib. Only after spending countless hours lovingly washing and cleaning dirty dishes, in the service of the holy Sangat of the Guru would Gurmukh Singh feel content and at peace and feel all his desires fulfilled. Such satisfaction is told of in Sri Rahiraas Sahib (evening prayer),

Jin Har Sevaiya Tin Mukh Paiya ||

Those who serve You find peace.

Upon the request of Sangat, Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa and jatha visited Calcutta. On arrival Sri Akhand Paht Sahib paths where started at Gurdwara Sahib Jugat Sudaar. Kirtan and Katha darbaars where also organized and done on behalf of the Jatha.

During Katha, vadiyaartis (students) would sit and have Sri Pothi Sahibs open and follow along as Mahpursh did Katha. Listening to the Katha of Mahpursh and seeing the love and devotion all the students had for Gurbani, topped it off for Gurmukh Singh and his mind now wanted nothing more but to learn more about Gurbani and Gurmat and he craved for nothing more but to take Amrit and join the Khalsa fold.

When the seed of the karma of past actions sprouted, I met the Lord; He is both the Enjoyer and the Renunciate.

My darkness was dispelled when I met the Lord. O Nanak, after being asleep for countless incarnations, I have awakened.

(Raag Gauree, Ang 204)

Gurmukh Singh wanting to do darshan of Mahpursh (Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa) went up to Mahpursh when they where not holding a diwan and with folded hands went to bow his head at the feet of Mahpursh, when Mahpursh stopped him and said,

“Hey Premia (Lover of the Guru) !! You should only bow your head to Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Instead you should meet me with folded hands and say, VAHEGURU JE KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JE KE FATEH !â€

Some nearby Singh’s who where friends of Gurmukh Singh and knew of his hearts desires then said out loud,

“Mahpurkho, this premi’s from a Hindu family, but today after hearing your Katha his heart has been set to join with you and the Jatha and learn more about Gurmat and be trained in reading of Gurbani. He does tremendous amounts of Seva and the sangat here loves him dearly.â€

Sant Mahpursh then replied,

"First this premi should take Amrit and be on the path of the Guru. Then he must abide by the conditions set for all Singhs who wish to be part of the Jatha. If he is willing then he can come and be trained in Gurmat.â€

Hearing this Gurmukh Singh was extremely pleased with being able to take Amrit and join the Guru’s Fauj (army), and have the privilege to learn Gurmat vidyia from the Jatha. In the following days an Amrit Sinchaar was organized and Gurmukh Singh took Amrit from the punj pyarai (five beloved) who then changed and kept his name as Gurmukh Singh.

That evening when Gurmukh Singh met with Mahpursh Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji, Mahpursh called for Giani Pritam Singh Ji and told them,

"This premi (Gurmukh Singh) was born into a Hindu family, but today he has taken Amrit from the Punj Pyarai who have bestowed upon him the name of Gurmukh Singh. He has a deep interest in learning Sikhiya from the Jatha. Let it be known that he is now with the Jatha. Not only is he a gurmukh but that is also his name.â€

Baba Lohara Singh Ji was also sitting close by, and mahpursh called to them and instructed them as such,

“Lohara Singh Ji, this Singh has studied in a Hindu school and can read and understand Hindi. He can also read Gurmukhi. Sit with him and help him get started on his schooling in Gurbani."

Then on behalf of Baba Loharaa Singh Ji, Bhai Kartaar Singh Ji "premi" & Bhai Kishan Singh Ji, Gurmukh Singh learned the proper ucharan of Gurbani and in no time became an Akhand Pathi, and quickly memorized his Nitnem and other banian.

Although many students would further there gyian in such areas as Katha or Kirtan, Gurmukh Singh instead preferred to do Seva in the Langar where he would prepare the dough, start the fires, prepare roti, wash the dirty dishes, distribute the langar alongside any other duties that needed doing. However no matter what task Gurmukh Singh took on, he did it with full enthusiasm and with great amounts of devotion and love, while always remaining humble.

Whenever Mahpursh where physically ill or tired Gurmukh Singh would help take care of them. In the summer times, Gurmukh Singh would take on the Seva of fanning sangat and spent much time in the Seva of Mahpursh.

During Amrit Vela, Gurmukh Singh would recite Sri Sukhmani Sahib for the older Singhs, and for the Singhs who where preparing Langar. Regardless of whatever else was going on, Gurmukh Singh would always complete his Nitnem and never tire or get sloppy while doing Seva.

No matter what the situation Gurmukh would never act lazy and Mahpursh respected and held Gurmukh Singh in high esteem for the amount of Simran, & Seva that he did and with the love and respect he would show to all those around him while doing it.

Sacrificing and giving of all possessions

One time Gurmukh Singh gathered whatever money he had, his warm lohee (shawl), mattress, his books, and whatever possessions that belonged to him and took them to Mahpursh Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa and placed them on a table in front of Mahpursh. Totally lost in Anand, colored in Naam with no attachment for anything of his own Gurmukh Singh was about to say,

“Maharaaj, please accept my offerings!â€

However knowing all, Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji got up and before Gurmukh Singh could say a word, started an Ardaas on behalf of Bhai Gurmukh Singh Ji and directed the question Bhai Gurmukh Singh Ji was going to ask into the lap to Guru Sahib saying,

“Dear Trurthful Lord, Bhai Gurmukh Singh Aurdeesa sacrifices all his belongings and entirety to your Sangat. In return please bless Bhai Gurmukh Singh Ji with the love of your name and have him forever imbued in this love of your name across all planes.â€

The Ardaas was said in such a way, that hearing such an Ardaas would bring a tear to ones eyes, and an amazing rejuvenating feeling would have overcome them. Gurmukh Singh’s spirit was greatly uplifted. A Singh also witnessing this later, asked Mahpursh,

“Hey maharajah, if he gave up all these normal usual items that you yourself gave him, how is that giving everything (sarbans)?

Absorbed in Naam, Sant replied,

“Singho! Understand this. Gurmukh Singh sacrificed all that he had from head to toe, and sacrificed all that he felt belonged to him. Whatever he thought was his, he gave it all to Guru Sahib Ji, and this is called Sarbans Daan, sacrificing everything. It doesn’t matter if you have a little or a lot. Whatever you think is yours if you give it all up then that alone is sarbans daan. But not anyone can just do this.

Through countless hours of seva serving in serving Sangat, Guru Sahib blessed Bhai Gurmukh Singh Ji with such kirpa to do such a thing (give up everything he had).

May I Forever be with Sant Ji

One day upon being pleased by Gurmukh Singh’s Seva-Simran Jeevan, Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji approached Gurmukh Singh Ji and said,

“Come, Bhai Aurdeesa Ji! Ask for what your heart desires. I am very pleased and delighted with your service here.â€

Gurmukh Singh Ji with folded hands then requested,

“Maharaaj! I have no other desires except for my one desire that I pass from this life with you and not have to spend this life without you†and then repeated the following lines of Gurbani,

O Saint, You are attuned to the Lord. Please stand by me, Architect of Destiny; please take me to my destination, Great Giver.

Sant joyfully replied,

“By the grace of the Great Guru, and with the Guru’s supreme and divine blessings, then you too can pass with meâ€

At that time the other Singh’s who were present, did not understand the deeper meanings as to what Mahpursh and Bhai Gurmukh Singh Ji’s conversation was all about All they understood about the conversation was that, Bhai Gurmukh Singh Ji, was asking, Mahpursh that since they brought him into the Jatha, to allow him to remain with the Jatha until his end. The reality of what Gurmukh Singh Ji and Mahpursh talked about and the deeper meanings of saying until the end came to light, at Kiratpur Sahib Patalpuri, when Gurmukh Singh jumped into the angeeta sahib and clutched Mahpursh and held onto them close, being burned alive and cremated alongside them,

Those who witnessed Bhai Gurmukh Singh Ji Aurdeesa jump into the flames that day where all shocked and left speechless. From Singh’s of the jatha, Panthic leaders, politicians, people of great honor and reputation , police and those in civil service where all unable to hide there shock at what they had seen when they witnessed Gurmukh Singh Ji, jumped into the flames with Mahapursh Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji. The only thought that repeated in the minds of all sangat present was,

“Blessed is the Guru, Blessed is the Guru’s Sikh, Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale, and blessed is Bhai Gurmukh Singh Ji Aurdeesa.â€

Soraj Kiran Milli Jal Ka Jal Hoya Ram

Joti Jot Rali Sampuran Thiya Ram|

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There is a huge problem with Bhai Gurmukh Singh's story the way it is told above. Many points i made about Sant baba Balwant Singh ji's story (post #3) being manmat hold the same manmat practices in Bhai Gurmukh Singh's story. If Bhai Gurmukh Singh was following the tuks presented by the original poster, then he would have went before Sant ji not after (i keep repeating this because this is the essence of the Shabad). Gurbani tuks are being twisted to suit what a Sikh did. This competely wrong and anyone can put some 'authority' figure name behind it and still the twisting of Gurbani tuks is taking place. This jatha mentality is a huge curse on the Khalsa Panth today.

Also nothing physically dies. departing is the not the same as death. Satguru Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji said, Sikhs take off one piece of clothing and put on another. No one physically dies when they change clothes. :biggrin2:

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Only five ji, the points you made earlier were very interesting. When I had read this tuk I had a lot of confusion because according to the rest of the shabad, this tuk did not seem like it can be implied to manmat. The rest of the shabad is about Akal Purakh Waheguru Ji Sacheh patshah ji is Ajooni therefore that is why I thought maybe the translation is incorrect. But this Gurbani Tuk can be interpreted to represent the pyaar one may have for Waheguru Ji.

For example Guru Gobind Singh Ji's shabad,

ਯਾਰੜੇ ਦਾ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਸੱਥਰੁ ਚੰਗਾ ਭਠ ਖੇੜਿਆ ਦਾ ਰਹਿਣਾ ॥

Yararrae Dha Sanoon Sathhar Changa Bhath Khaerria Dha Rehina ||

Guru Sahib Ji uses the story of Ranjha and Heer as a metaphor to exemplify the love and quest for Waheguru Ji.

Maybe Guru Sahib Ji is trying to say that, that is how much pyaar he has for Akal Purakh Ji the love being represented as the love between a preetam and preetam's pyaareh how a preetam's pyaareh would rather die before the preetam dies. That love between the preetam and preetam's pyaareh is like how one loves Satguru Ji.

I may be COMPLETELY wrong about all of this but its just a way of interpreting Gurbani.

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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Sangat Ji as I was doing path from Maharaj, I came across a tuk on ang 83.

ਮਃ ੨ ॥

Ma 2 ||

Second Mehl:

ਜਿਸੁ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਸਿਉ ਨੇਹੁ ਤਿਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਮਰਿ ਚਲੀਐ ॥

Jis Piaarae Sio Naehu This Aagai Mar Chaleeai ||

Die before the one whom you love;

ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਜੀਵਣੁ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ ਤਾ ਕੈ ਪਾਛੈ ਜੀਵਣਾ ॥੨॥

Dhhrig Jeevan Sansaar Thaa Kai Paashhai Jeevanaa ||2||

To live after he dies is to live a worthless life in this world. ||2||

Can someone please explain the context of this tuk?

Bhul Chuk Maaf

tuk is saying, >> hau kurbaanai jaao meharvaana.. kurbaane jaao tinaa ke lain jo tera naao" <<

saying,

ਜਿਸੁ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਸਿਉ ਨੇਹੁ ਤਿਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਮਰਿ ਚਲੀਐ ॥ >> "that beloved one that has the true sucha neha, love, (of god), i go after that person and die.. "(ਮਰਿ ਚਲੀਐ cant be explained.. its a gurbani concept. but, it means, ... ""would die for that person"".)

ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਜੀਵਣੁ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ ਤਾ ਕੈ ਪਾਛੈ ਜੀਵਣਾ ॥੨॥

(then the question comes.., y..) answer isin this secont parta the tuk..

dhria jeevan sunsunsaar. "living for the world is cursed in and of itself. this is y i live in the presence of that beloved one.. gursikh."

dhan guru

thus the concept of bhaaao bhagat comes. which is the true amrit. since those that have the true love, "neh", prem etc, then they have everything.

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    • Yeah, Sikhs should do bhog of food they eat. But the point of bhog is to only do bhog of food which is fit to be presented to Maharaj. It's not maryada to do bhog of khulla maas and pretend it's OK to eat. It's not. Come on, bro, you should know better than to bring this Sakhi into it. Is this Sikh in the restaurant accompanied by Guru Gobind Singh ji? Is he fighting a dharam yudh? Or is he merely filling his belly with the nearest restaurant?  Please don't make a mockery of our puratan Singhs' sacrifices by comparing them to lazy Sikhs who eat khulla maas.
    • Seriously?? The Dhadi is trying to be cute. For those who didn't get it, he said: "Some say Maharaj killed bakras (goats). Some say he cut the heads of the Panj Piyaras. The truth is that they weren't goats. It was she-goats (ਬਕਰੀਆਂ). He jhatka'd she-goats. Not he-goats." Wow. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard in relation to Sikhi.
    • Instead of a 9 inch or larger kirpan, take a smaller kirpan and put it (without gatra) inside your smaller turban and tie the turban tightly. This keeps a kirpan on your person without interfering with the massage or alarming the masseuse. I'm not talking about a trinket but rather an actual small kirpan that fits in a sheath (you'll have to search to find one). As for ahem, "problems", you could get a male masseuse. I don't know where you are, but in most places there are professional masseuses who actually know what they are doing and can really relieve your muscle pains.
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