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MokhamSingh

Introduction To Vairaag Shatak....rajah Bharthari

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First of all I do not understand why this thread has been allowed in a Sikh site where poetry written by a Nath (follower of Gorakhnath.) is being discussed in Such amanner as if it is the most sacred Psalm of the world , Did the person has not find solace in Gurbani , that raises genuine doubts about him being a real SINGH. If he is one could he not discuss at such lenght the Banis of Sidh Gost , Sukhmani Sahib and any other Banis . As we all know the Vairagya of the Genre the Sidhs were propagating ( it made Common Indian the kind of Coward which the Great Gurus of Us tried to remove .

in short the teachings of Sidhs are not in Tune with the philosophy of Sikh Faith and has no place to be discussed at this forum

Edited by jasvendrasingh
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tuhintuhin    621

^^ waheguru ji.....raja bhagirath met Guru Nanak Sahib which changed his life and he became a Gursikh.

fyi: some sidh jogis like gorakh nath became Guru sahib's followers too.

We should not raise our finger at anyone if we don't have enough knowledge about the topic.

Bhai Mokham Singh ji is very respected and learned Singh and he has earned this respect with Guru sahib's kirpa.

Edited by tuhintuhin
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First,i amnot contesting credentials of anybody including yourself, next is it proven fact that the poetry inder discussionwas written after ,as per you he became sikh of our first kaml murshid sahib.As far I know Bhrthari (not bhagirath as you refered ) who wrote this poetry was brother of king Vikramaditya ( who started Vikrami samvat since his accension on thron of Ujjayini & that dates back to 1500 alp years before the time of SG nanak deve ji ( the meeting historically is out of qudstion. Second the phillosophy of nath sampradaya is not in tune with sikh way & view of life which teaches not to run away from social life .

We may study scripturesof otherfaiths & various lines of thinking for comparartive study and update for answdring querries during discussions but quoting naths as gurmukhs very humbly speaking is taking things too far ( only awayward sikh may think on these lines)Have you come across any nath sect follower accepting tht Gorakhnath accepted Guru ji as his Guru,no you will not .I have personally visited HQ of nath sampraday at Gorakhpur and no found any such evidence . they teach idol worshipping .have their own scriptures . hence allway different from our faith.

Please make differention btween our faith n others and keep discussion on logical & historical facts only

Bhul chuk maaf WGKKWGKF

^^ waheguru ji.....raja bhagirath met Guru Nanak Sahib which changed his life and he became a Gursikh.

fyi: some sidh jogis like gorakh nath became Guru sahib's followers too.

We should not raise our finger at anyone if we don't have enough knowledge about the topic.

Bhai Mokham Singh ji is very respected and learned Singh and he has earned this respect with Guru sahib's kirpa.

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First,i amnot contesting credentials of anybody including yourself, next is it proven fact that the poetry inder discussionwas written after ,as per you he became sikh of our first kaml murshid sahib.As far I know Bhrthari (not bhagirath as you refered ) who wrote this poetry was brother of king Vikramaditya ( who started Vikrami samvat since his accension on thron of Ujjayini & that dates back to 1500 alp years before the time of SG nanak deve ji ( the meeting historically is out of qudstion. Second the phillosophy of nath sampradaya is not in tune with sikh way & view of life which teaches not to run away from social life .

We may study scripturesof otherfaiths & various lines of thinking for comparartive study and update for answdring querries during discussions but quoting naths as gurmukhs very humbly speaking is taking things too far ( only awayward sikh may think on these lines)Have you come across any nath sect follower accepting tht Gorakhnath accepted Guru ji as his Guru,no you will not .I have personally visited HQ of nath sampraday at Gorakhpur and no found any such evidence . they teach idol worshipping .have their own scriptures . hence allway different from our faith

^^ waheguru ji.....raja bhagirath met Guru Nanak Sahib which changed his life and he became a Gursikh.

fyi: some sidh jogis like gorakh nath became Guru sahib's followers too.

We should not raise our finger at anyone if we don't have enough knowledge about the topic.

Bhai Mokham Singh ji is very respected and learned Singh and he has earned this respect with Guru sahib's kirpa.

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the Headlines of this Section reads -

This section is for articles and discussions related to Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, Banis of Bhai Gurdas Ji, Bhai Nand Lal Ji, Janam Saakhi

and other important Sikh scriptures.

Now can the Administrator please clarify that book under reference falls under which of these catagories specified in the Heading when it is not a bani of Dasam Pitaji , Jan am Saakhi , written by bhai Nand Lalji /Bhai Gurdaas Ji - do the 1adminidtrators think it is an important sikh scripture ?

Please do not try to ridicule my querry it is a serious Question about what can be discussed with devotion and what to be discussed critically vis a vis Gurbani & compared to Gurmat


the Headlines of this Section reads -

This section is for articles and discussions related to Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, Banis of Bhai Gurdas Ji, Bhai Nand Lal Ji, Janam Saakhi

and other important Sikh scriptures.

Now can the Administrator please clarify that book under reference falls under which of these catagories specified in the Heading when it is not a bani of Dasam Pitaji , Jan am Saakhi , written by bhai Nand Lalji /Bhai Gurdaas Ji - do the 1adminidtrators think it is an important sikh scripture ?

Please do not try to ridicule my querry it is a serious Question about what can be discussed with devotion and what to be discussed critically vis a vis Gurbani & compared to Gurmat

This question is directed to the Administrators of the Site

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Bhai Mohkam Singh ji , after the Formal Gur Fateh , Would i request you humbly that vairag as stated in Gurbani is different from that which is proclaimed in the book referred by you , have you studied and understood enough of Gurbaani , Im afraid you need some more , else you wouldnot have been so impressed by the nath mat who ran away from difficulties of routines of life and started living in woods , there was no feeling of SARBAT DA BHALA in their minds , after achieving so many Ridhi & sidhis became Ahankaris .And the way of life shown by our great Gurus teaches us to be VICHE GIRHI VICHE UDASI and the first tenets of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji were- KIRT KARO , NAAM JAPO - VAND CHAKO (while naaths were living parasites of our society )

In general , as said earlier I am not against discussing books of other faiths critically , not on equal footings with Gurbani & baani of sikhs who spent thier lives in company of Satgurus perfectly in tune with the teachings of Sikhi

hence any literature which leads the reader to renunciation(sanyaas) way is not acceptable to be discussed as equivalent to Gurbaani .because the final teachings of these books are not in tune with Sikh way of Life , overall the decision lies with the Administrators which may still like to allow such things which confuse the minds of Lay persons in Sikhi

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Mr Mohkam singh -

-Did you learn about Vairag fromm Reading this book only and not from Gurbaani?

-Do you concern renunciation of the word and becoming begger avery big virtue ( which is diametrically opposite to the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib)?

- in your opinion were the naths jogis were free from the vices of Krodh & ahankar & jelousy - which did not show from thir behaviour with Baba Sri Guru Nanak dev Ji

My straight question to you is - did you not find teachings of Guru Sahib enough to awaken the Vairaag in you ? that you find it necessary to emphasise the need to refer to that book.

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MokhamSingh    608

SriGuruGranthSahib Maharajh is full of Bairaag; Gurbaani emphasises the need for detachment, whilst remaining a part of society. The Granth "Vairaag Shatak", or any other Granth will never be on a par with SGGS.

Vairaag Shatak gives beautiful examples of the torment caused by over indulgence, and the extreme attachment to materialism. Rajah Bharthari became tyaghi, prior to Baba Nanak coming to earth; hence Bharthari's methods are not completely in line with Gurmat. The bottom line, however, is that Raja Bharthari's vairaag teaches one the signifance and bliss of tyagh; if we take the Granth in the context of Gurbani, then we can benefit from that tremendously.

"Vairaag Shatak", amongst many other sanatan Granths have been studied, in conjunction with SGGS Ji, in all the puratan Taksals, and still do so today.

Nothing can ever replace SGGS, but the study of sanatan Granths can expand on the teachings contained therein.

If my translations have caused any offence, then I apologise unreservedly; my intention is not to replace SGGS, in any way, but to gain a deeper understanding of the philosophy contained within.

Thank you for taking the time to point out the error of my ways; at my age, I should not be using this forum, since it is, after all "voice of the youth".

A very big heartfelt thanks to the Sangat, and the Admin for allowing to share my views.

Waheguru....

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N30S1NGH    2,988

Thanks so much Mokham Singh for great seva and your above post. Just to expand on Mokham Singh post. Here is damdami taksal syllabus to learn old traditional sikhi:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/67189-lack-of-bhramvidya-in-the-panth/page-1

In order to be gyani in Sikh Theology and have understanding of gurbani you need to have through understanding of nine granths before hand.. The nine granths are

Chanaka Raajneeti
Sarkutavali
Bhavrasamrit
Vichar Mala
Vairag Shatak
Parbodh Chandar Natak
Adhiatam Parkash
Birti Parbhakar
Vichar Sagar

These are only taught in Bhindra now all this vidiya has not existed at Mehta since Sant Jarnail Singh Ji stopped teching during the Dharam Yudh Morcha. Thse granths are needed as the basis to understand gurbani then further work can be done by learning the Vedant Paribhasha, Upnishads, Moksh Panth Parkash, Adhyatam Parkash, etc

Only after these are studied should you start on the gazals of bhai nand lal and the works of Bhai Gurdas Ji.

Giani Harbhajan Singh Ji Dhudhike Wale and Baba Hari Singh Ji Randhawe Wale are possibly the best ustaads at the moment for all these granths as many of the other ustaads have only worked up to vichar sagar and not even heard of the birti parbhakar.

They are taught before you start any gurbani, they are your foundation to understanding gurbani, they dont effect the arths but are the foundations fr it. They are your early schooling. It is the same as if you ever wanted to do a degree you need your years of schooling before to understand the details to something like astronominal aeronuticals or quantam gravity physics. The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the most difficult of any granth as it is easy to read but the meanings are an endless ocean and without the necessary pre education you cant fully comprehend the teachings in either Gurbani or Ithaas.

Chanak Raajneeti was written around 2000 years ago
Sarkutavali was written by Pandit hardayal who was linked to Guru Amardas Ji's lineage
Bhavrasamrit was by Pandit Gulab Singh Nirmala
Vichar Mala by Anath Das Udasi
Vairag Shatak by Bharthari who was one of the Sidhs who met Sri Guru NanakDev Ji
Parbodh Chandar Natak by Pandit Gulab Singh Nirmala
Adhiatam Parkash by Pandit Sukhdev Singh Nirmala
Birti Parbhakar by Pandit Nischal Das
Vichar Sagar by Pandit Nischal Das
Edited by N30S1NGH
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The under lying message in Vairaag Shatak is Vairaag {renunciation}; Gurbani stresses the importance of Vairaag, in order to break free from Kaam/krodh/lobh/moh/ahankar.

What made India a nation of cowards, was not Vairaag; the thing that made India a nation of sub-servients, was spiritual corruption, the attachment to materialism, and the distancing of folk from self discipline.

This Granth teaches one the importance of Vairaag, and the need for self discipline etc. Rajah Bharthari used physical renunciation; becoming a beggar, in essence.

Gurmat teaches us to work for a living; to help the needy too, in a charitable manner.

The bottom line is VAIRAAG; if it can be learned from this Granth, there is no harm.

Anything that distances us from Kaam/krodh/lobh/moh/ahankar, is definitely worth reading.....

Waheguru....

Mr Mohkam Singh Ji ,

WJKK WJKF , I can feel from your expressions that you are feeling agitated by my POV , yo clarify my position first , I am not that young as you have thought me to be , i am in late fifties , second certain points I have raised about are Supremacy of Gurbani for Khalsa , Second counter the points raised by Veer Tuhintuhin , icertainly not want to disrespect anybodty but alongwith what may main point is - the treatises of other faith cannot be compared with the wrirtings of Samkali Singhs of Guru sahiban and the later Singhs . For comparative & critical study every body should read the books (for this reason only the Guru sahib himself sent singhs to kashi - the Nirmala Singhs , even I have spent my childhood at aNirmal Ashram studying the Gurmat , study of Vedangas , and at later Stage of Life studied western thought too , yet at the stage where I am nearing Sixties , My faith in SGGS is as sound as it was in teens

I never meant to insult any body , if you felt that way , my aplogies

FATEH

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Thanks so much Mokham Singh for great seva and your above post. Just to expand on Mokham Singh post. Here is damdami taksal syllabus to learn old traditional sikhi:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/67189-lack-of-bhramvidya-in-the-panth/page-1

Mr whoever , you are not getting my pov , Bharthari who wrote this book existed 1500 years before Guru nanak Dev ji - THAT IS HISTORY

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jpsingh2    92

why do you mean naths are a parasite to society? from what I know they are similar to siddhas who made great contributions to society eg invention and innovation of music, medicine, literature. Even Gorakh naths teachings where influencial in Punjab for the better.

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No idea why every body is so much advocating for Naths.if post of JP singh to be followed .even einstein has made contribution to society,should we learn sikh traditions &theology from him too?Why being singhs we should as much try to put our feet on 2 boats.My family & we are 2nd gen Sikhs ,if same things are being seen here to(following brahmins,naths n following to their whims) why you ppl are reverting to brahmanvad.there is ample treasure of knowledge in SGGS please try to find iut .we do not need nonsense from elsewhere.

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