• advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
UKLondonSikh

Four Of The 5 Pyaaray Were Not Punjabi

72 posts in this topic

Thanks 10th regiment ... yep if every1 of us keep telling every1 else we know ... 1day non-Sikhs (most importantly) will truly get Vasakhi is about + what it means ... instead of all this party-vibe atmosphere ... that apne youth being encouraged to down a beer or some drug to "celebrate"

In today's day+age Khalsa Fauj can be achieved through the medium of the UN to ensure that things like genocides like Rwanda + DR Congo don't happen again ...

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks 10th regiment ... yep if every1 of us keep telling every1 else we know ... 1day non-Sikhs (most importantly) will truly get Vasakhi is about + what it means ... instead of all this party-vibe atmosphere ... that apne youth being encouraged to down a beer or some drug to "celebrate"

This emerging trend is, to be frank, beginning to pee me off big-time. Our youngsters thinking our holiest days are a reason to party and down alcohol. I can see a time in the future when even Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Gurpurab will have idiotic "Sikhs" thinking it's okay to celebrate with a drink, much like people do at Christmas.

Vaisakhi Parties??!!? Now unless everyone gathered together at this "party" is about to take Amrit ( :biggrin2: ), I really don't want to know what happens at these so-called Vaisakhi Parties.

Of course you'll get the odd smart-ar5e saying "I'm not celebrating the Sikh festival - I'm celebrating the Punjabi harvest" but they know what the score is. They're just taking the mick.

Look, Hindus, Muslims, Indian-Christians can celebrate the harvest all they want. I'm very, very happy for them to celebrate the harvest but Sikhs who think they can forgo the religious significance of this day and join the secular celebrations as a reason to get plastered need to get their heads looked at.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But in a sense kalyugi it's kind of our fault ... if people knew what Vasakhi was actually about ... i reckon all the sharabi crew might even give it a break for 1day! Those that know just have to push the message harder ... but the bhangra labels are killing us + much as i say hats off to D.Bal for doing Sikh Channel ... we have to hit him with feedback that his other station is doing our youngsters harm in terms of the caste baqwaas, alcolhol baqwaas + "punjabi version of 50cent mentality". For all the honest Sikhs that know ... we can't compete with a tv station ... so we got to try cut the root by polite persuasion initially of Davinder Bal for starters

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's strange UKLondonSikh, but up until the age of 10 I only ever knew of Vaisakhi defined in terms of the Panj Pyaare, Amrit di daat, etc. That was all that particular date of April 13th meant to me. It was only as I got older did I learn about the crop being taken in and the cultural aspects of the occasion back home. But by then Vaisakhi was entrenched as a religious event in my mind and hopefully that's how it remains.

If Sikh kids are told what Vaisakhi is before the TV channels and the wayward relatives get their claws into them, nothing else matters IMO. The child will always revere Vaisakhi for it's religious significance before anything else.

BTW before anyone asks, my upbringing was not suffocating or anything like that. I wasn't indoctrinated by my parents; in-fact they were very hands-off and allowed me to discover and learn by myself. The only times they ever talked to me in detail about religion was when I approached them. It was never "This is what happened in history, this is what you must do..". Maybe that's why I still hold the religion in high regard because I kinda discovered the intricacies of the faith myself without being force-fed everything?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True Paji + i think it very much depends on family ... perhaps your family were more religious than others families back then where the dad is having a glassy to celebrate this harvest nonsense ... what it leads on to ... is how mentoring of (particularly) Sehajdhari youth (in a non-judgemental way by Gursikhs) is critical. Obviously mentors would not be restricted to Gursikhs anyway of course. As far as I heard it from Giani i respect ... no point "celebrating" a harvest festival when others on this planet going hungry ...

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True Paji + i think it very much depends on family ... perhaps your family were more religious than others families back then where the dad is having a glassy to celebrate this harvest nonsense ... what it leads on to ... is how mentoring of (particularly) Sehajdhari youth (in a non-judgemental way by Gursikhs) is critical. Obviously mentors would not be restricted to Gursikhs anyway of course. As far as I heard it from Giani i respect ... no point "celebrating" a harvest festival when others on this planet going hungry ...

Agree with this. Gursikhs who have the seva of educating Sikhs about the faith really need to be magnanimous when educating non-Gursikhs. People these days are very touchy and impatient, and if they feel they are being criticised or judged (even with justification at times) they will ignore even wise words and turn against the message-giver.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Definitely Paji (kaljugi) mentoring is something we need to make compulsory at our Gurdwara like on N30S1NGH 's "Dream Gurdwara" thread. Influencing youngsters straying off the tracks in a non-judgemental way without excessive expectation of them becoming Amritdhari will really move us forward. I think that if we realise that true Amritdhari qualities can only really be exhibited in the top 1% at best ... then we will realise why only 5 Gursikhs stood up out of a sangat of fifty thousand. The key ingredient for a greater Amritdhari population who match the qualities of having a heart "overflowing with love" (and to stand out in a crowd) that Guru Gobind Singh Ji expected of them ... is a greater pool of Sehajdhari brothers and sisters that believe in the basics. We can hardly expect any Khalsay in countries like Iraq overnight, can we? But the Panj Pyaaray's individual backgrounds as 80% non-Punjabi's prove (despite the Sangat in 1699 congregating in Punjab which on paper ought to have perhaps meant a greater percentage of Punjabi's amongst the beloved five) that Sikhi is a universal message and that with the suffering going on globally at present ... we need a new Khalsa Fauj for this day + age to be re-activated under the auspices of the UN.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Definitely Paji (kaljugi) mentoring is something we need to make compulsory at our Gurdwara like on N30S1NGH 's "Dream Gurdwara" thread. Influencing youngsters straying off the tracks in a non-judgemental way without excessive expectation of them becoming Amritdhari will really move us forward. I think that if we realise that true Amritdhari qualities can only really be exhibited in the top 1% at best ... then we will realise why only 5 Gursikhs stood up out of a sangat of fifty thousand. The key ingredient for a greater Amritdhari population who match the qualities of having a heart "overflowing with love" (and to stand out in a crowd) that Guru Gobind Singh Ji expected of them ... is a greater pool of Sehajdhari brothers and sisters that believe in the basics. We can hardly expect any Khalsay in countries like Iraq overnight, can we? But the Panj Pyaaray's individual backgrounds as 80% non-Punjabi's prove (despite the Sangat in 1699 congregating in Punjab which on paper ought to have perhaps meant a greater percentage of Punjabi's amongst the beloved five) that Sikhi is a universal message and that with the suffering going on globally at present ... we need a new Khalsa Fauj for this day + age to be re-activated under the auspices of the UN.

Well, no. In this day and age if you really want to enter into prachaar and vichaar seva for the benefit of Sikhi you will WANT to take amrit, in terms of not being called out for being a hypocrite - which many, many people are quick to do. But I do feel that once you begin on that particular path the pull of taking Amrit is irresistible.

It will show committment and dedication. If not, then what exactly are you (the educator) wishing people will learn if he / she hasn't taken that step themselves? Let's not get the Khalsa Fauj confused with a general, all-encompassing "Sikh Fauj" of which every Sikh - keshdhari or not - should feel they belong to. The Khalsa Fauj will always be the benchmark and something to aspire to.

To bypass and dismiss Gursikhi just because it isn't truly present within everyone who takes Amrit defeats the whole purpose of being a baptised Sikh. In that case nobody should ever bother taking Amrit because not many will ever live up to the ideals a Gursikh should subscribe to! That's clearly not the way to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, no. In this day and age if you really want to enter into prachaar and vichaar seva for the benefit of Sikhi you will WANT to take amrit.

>>Yep Paji ... i agree with you on that (to a degree) ... but if that limits the number of prachaariks and pretty much excludes Tamil Sikhs or Sindhi Sikhs as two examples ... where does that get us?

It will show committment and dedication.

>>True

If not, then what exactly are you (the educator) wishing people will learn if he / she hasn't taken that step themselves?

>>I think that the spiritual message to get someone to Sehajdhari first is important ... as a pre-cursor to Khalsa Sant-Sipahi. In the context of mentors I absolutely believe that Sehajdhari can still make good mentors to Sehajdhari kids.

Let's not get the Khalsa Fauj confused with a general, all-encompassing "Sikh Fauj" of which every Sikh - keshdhari or not - should feel they belong to. The Khalsa Fauj will always be the benchmark and something to aspire to.

>>Yep I know what you mean Paji ... but I kind of had in mind a global conscription system for all countries to feed soldiers into a UN peacekeeping force ... of which I had imagined Sikhs as a whole would comprise 0.5% of volunteers and asli Khalsay an even smaller percentage ... for example to have stopped genocides like Rwanda + DR Congo in recent history which were way worse in numerical terms than our own recent ghallughara in 1984.

To bypass and dismiss Gursikhi just because it isn't truly present within everyone who takes Amrit defeats the whole purpose of being a baptised Sikh.

>>The more true Gursikhs the better Paji ... but Kesdhari Sikhs drinking + doing the rest of the things that Sikhi prohibits simply weakens the Khalsa image as a whole (though not the Khalsa ideal). And I just don't see all future growth in non-Punjabi Sikh numbers as coming from full GurSikhs ... i anticipate that the best we could hope for is 95% sehajdhari's which would still give a greater pool for new true committed Khalsay to emerge from.

In that case nobody should ever bother taking Amrit because not many will ever live up to the ideals a Gursikh should subscribe to!

>>I definitely don't think there's any point a person taking Amrit if they simply don't believe in what Khalsa's are meant to be about deep within their heart or never intend to abide by the disciplined lifestyle they are expected to commit to.

That's clearly not the way to go.

>>When it comes to true Khalsay who are an inspiration, Paji, i honestly think "less" could be "more" if you see my point?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All the time - but especially so at Vasakhi - we as a Panth need to communicate facts like the geographic origin of our Panj Pyaaray as widely as possible. Too many of our own community don't realise these and allow themselves to pigeon-hole Sikhi to Majha and Malwa only (since Doaba is a Hindu majority region since Indira + her casteist Jatt Congress became aggressive in funding the growth of Dera Ballan and the Balmiki Sabha's there in order to destroy the ethos of saanjhay Gurdwaray). I'm not from the AKJ and nor do I always agree with them but we should commend them for looking to help the poor outside of Punjab as they notably did in Madhya Pradesh recently.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On Vasakhi 1699 after the first two Khalsay had stood up ... Guru Gobind Singh Ji (the sixth Khalsa) gave three more calls. Mohkam Chand, a Gujarati calico printer/tailor from DwarkaNagar, Himmat Rai, a water-bearer from Jagannath Puri in Orissa, and Sahib Shah, a barber from Bidar (south India), stood up one after another and advanced to offer their heads.

... a minority of the wider Punjabi community is Sikh ... most Punjabi's are Muslims and there are more Hindi speaking "Punjabi's" in the historic parts of pre-1966 Punjab.

So we as Sikhs need to fight back against this nonsense portraying Sikhs as the equivalent of Punjabi's as they seek to limit the truth to a small part of Punjab only.

Even the Muslim Jatts that killed 300,000 Sikhs in 1947 and the Hindu Jatts like Sajjan Kumar laugh at the ridiculousness of some Sikhs associating an ancestry with their name as a mark of pride given the fact that even the vast majority of Jatts are Muslim and Hindu ...

So again we as Sikhs need to fight against our Panth being associated with any particular ancestry backgrounds (because that's exactly what our enemies want)

So let's be clear anybody in 2012 who proclaims their ancestry background from the rooftops is not a Sikh and Punjabiyat has no relavance to Sikhi. Anybody into Bhangra please tell your favourite artists that you will not buy their records if they continue to promote alcohol + caste on behalf of a Muslim record label like Moviebox.

Sikhi is falsely portrayed by the Panth's enemies and for the record let me state that i think a billion or so Hindu's are generally good people (the 800 million or so Hindu's who live in poverty I consider as Sikh in my eyes anyway ... before someone misinterprets my stab at the Panth's enemies)

Good point, but dont forget the first one Bhai Daya Singh ji was from lahore and punjab, but sikhs were all over india.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah Paji at least we Punjabi's had one Gursikh amongst the Panj Pyaaray ... can you imagine what it would have said about us Punjabi's if all of the Panj Pyaaray were non-Punjabi ... but then again I suppose the fact that 200 years ago at the start of the 19th Century a staggering 95% of Punjabi's were Muslims and Hindu's says a lot. Even as recently as1947, we were only 13% of the Punjabi population so Punjab definitely is not the future of Sikhi despite it being the historic cradle.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Adding to the unity in diversity point: another problem with punjabiasation of sikhi is the sehajdhari problem. Less than 10% of punjabi sikhs are amritdhari whereas 90% of non Indian sikhs are amritdhari. Sehajdhari concept has a role to play but it has become the norm to be lifelong sehajdhari (many with cut hair), and punjabi ethnicity or even being brown skinned seems like an automatic entitlement to anand karaj etc. I'm we all recognise that taking gurus amrit is the solution to the rot. Diversity will strengthen sikhi kaum through interactions and strengthening of sikhi religiously.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah its important to realize this and recognize Sikh does not equal Punjabi. Guru Gobind Singh ji was born in Bihar and died in Maharashtra, and a lot of his writing were in Braj Bhasha, not Punjabi.

Punjabi culture does not equal Sikh way of life

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sikhism is also termed as Punjabi nationalism by many.



Sikhism is also termed as Punjabi nationalism by many.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sikhism is also termed as Punjabi nationalism by many.

Sikhism is also termed as Punjabi nationalism by many.

These must be the views of narrow minded people who

do not have any understanding about Sikhism and that our religion is a

universal religion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Punjabis are so bad, it doesnt stop those of us in the West, thousands of miles away, from doing something else.

Unfortunately even if Punjab disappeared into a blackhole our problems here in the West would still exist along with our impotence and apathy. But I guess it's fun to act like one of the big religions and blame others.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At the same time lets not narrow down the 5 Pyares to just racial backgrounds and their origin whether they were from low or high castes. Daas came across a moment reading Gurmukh Parkash by Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale where he mentions that the 5 Pyares were avatars of bhagats. I don't remember exactly who was who but I do remember him mentioning that Bhai Daya Singh Ji was an incarnation of Bhagat Namdev Ji and Bhai Himmat Singh was an incarnation of Bhagat Dhanna Ji. Its Akal Purakh's khel to show us kaljugi jeevs that in reality it is only Him pervading everywhere and the racial/ethnic/cast/nationality labels do not really matter! I wish I could find that little excerpt again and share it with the Sangat but I would have to go through the whole granth!

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At the same time lets not narrow down the 5 Pyares to just racial backgrounds and their origin whether they were from low or high castes. Daas came across a moment reading Gurmukh Parkash by Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale where he mentions that the 5 Pyares were avatars of bhagats. I don't remember exactly who was who but I do remember him mentioning that Bhai Daya Singh Ji was an incarnation of Bhagat Namdev Ji and Bhai Himmat Singh was an incarnation of Bhagat Dhanna Ji. Its Akal Purakh's khel to show us kaljugi jeevs that in reality it is only Him pervading everywhere and the racial/ethnic/cast/nationality labels do not really matter! I wish I could find that little excerpt again and share it with the Sangat but I would have to go through the whole granth!

I'm not sure how he would know who is an incarnation of who !!!

We should respect and know Bhai Himat singh as Bhai Himat singh ONLY and Bhai Daya singh as Bhai Daya Singh ONLY..etc...

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure how he would know who is an incarnation of who !!!

We should respect and know Bhai Himat singh as Bhai Himat singh ONLY and Bhai Daya singh as Bhai Daya Singh ONLY..etc...

How will they prove that there baba ji is brahamgyani.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bhai Daya Singh Ji - Luv (Son of Bhagwan Ramchandar Ji Maharaj)

Bhai Dharam Singh Ji - Bhagat Dhanna Ji

Bhai Himmat Singh Ji - Phandak (The hunter ("Biyaad") who captured "Chattarbhuj Panchhi Bhagwan")

Bhai Mohkam Singh Ji - Bhagat Namdev Ji

Bhai Sahib Singh Ji - Bhagat Sain Ji



How will they prove that there baba ji is brahamgyani.

Was this supposed to be sarcastic?

Are you doubting the avasthaa of Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindraan Wale?

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now



  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Good informative reply by Akalifauj paji. Also when getting your blood tests done, request for Vitamin D study and Vitamin B12. If you're inside all day, your Vitamin D maybe affected. So get them done also. 
    • Did something traumatic happen to you as a child?  Anxiety is an over reaction of the mind to some stimulus that it can't understand or faced a traumatic event and is associating certain things, thoughts, or places that bring on the attacks. From the time you were 14 to now, your mind may have developed the ability to understand whatever it can't understand is not going to harm you anymore. But still has some triggers that it can't Overcome. Over time the mind is able to develop coping strategies. Next time they come on, note down where you are, what you were doing and what you were thinking.  Many times being in a certain place triggers them. This place may have nothing to do with why they started but this place triggers them because there is a subconscious thought tied up with the place. Calming your nerves involves being in the moment.  If you are reading a book, focus on reading the book and don't let your mind wander.  If your mind wanders.  Use self talk.  Tell yourself, I am reading and I am focused on this task now.  Tell yourself, Guru Sahib is with you and there is nothing to worry about or there is no reason to be scared.  Tell yourself as many times it is needed.  Anxiety attacks are not random.  They may seem random because its very difficult to figure out what is going on and trying to fight off the attack at the same time. 
    • LOL another Jatt hater. So only jatts cut their hair? Only jatts drink/nasheh etc? Listen bro, you have made yourself sound stupid as your buddy jacf2. Only thing that is right that you said, is that you can's compare Mahapurshs and Shaheeds. But if you want to do comparisions and ratios, then why dont you do one if you really want to go down that route about how many Shaheed Kharkoo Singhs were Jatt and how many were from the castes you mention? I think you will find its a stupid argument to be having. Yeah brother it hurts me seeing the state of our people, seeing most apneh regardless of caste, particularly in Punjab as moneh, struggling to find a Keshdhari munda in the pinds. But trust me, this aint just limited to Jatts. Either way, now is the time to turn it back, by doing something positive. Despite any marayada/jatha/personal issues, lets support those making a difference. Support prachariks going into pinds and bringing Sikhi to people e.g. Giani Pinderpal Singh, Ranjit Singh Dhadhriawale (whatever your views, he the main man in Punjab bringing masses into Sikhi), or whether its supporting those who are tackling grooming e.g. Mohan Singh SAS, Sikh Youth and even your average anakhi punjabis who are stepping it up. Overall point, lets do something constructive and positive, rather than pull each other down over caste, jatha, gender, social class and political views. United we stand, divided we fall...
    • REGISTRATION IS NOW OPEN!! Join us for this year's Kaurs United International Camp in beautiful Victoria BC, from August 14-17!! What makes Kaurs United Camps unique?
      It is the uplifting sangat of Khalsa sisters, awakening discussions, inspirational workshops, unifying ambiance, celestial blessings, spiritual power, personal growth, and so much more. Rarely does such an opportunity come for Kaurs to be in each other’s company and laugh, cry, learn, and grow. This camp was created to help you become the Kaur you long to be. Follow the link below to register:  https://kaurs.wufoo.eu/forms/q1ig7e00yueqdn/ Source -http://heyevent.com/event/zhg7eh34dwdwaa/kaurs-united-international-camp-2017-hukam
    • We are fortunate to be able to assist the SEWA Gurdwara Sahib in preparing, transporting and serving a meal for the Atlanta Metro Task Force homeless shelter. We’ll meet at the Gurdwara (10590 Woodstock Road, Roswell) at 11:00 a.m. and prepare the food until about 4:00 p.m. The food is transported to the shelter and then served at 5:00-6:30 or 7:00, depending on the number to be served. You’re also welcome if you can’t remain for the entire day – whatever time you can give is greatly appreciated! Please let Rev. Melanie (678-825-4099) know if you plan to attend. http://heyevent.com/event/hixi6gjlykhbya/interfaith-homeless-langar-seva-sewa-gurdwara-sahib