Jump to content

Xferring Farmland From Punjab --> Usa


Guest farm
 Share

Recommended Posts

Thats a lame answer on every level. Prices of agricultural land have been going up in doaba every single day continously since the 1950's since the the people left en-masse to England. Where was your magical 'Residential Development' then ? It goes up because the rural dispora creates a sellers market. In other words, for every acre for sale there are at least a dozen in the diaspora chasing it...thus outbidding each other. Its been like that in doaba for the last 60 years....without any 'residential development' in the horizon. And now, with the malwais also finally being part of the diaspora, malwa is starting to experience the same thing. Obviously the outskirts of Ludhiana is the exception to the general rule because the wealth and growth of Ludhiana city has been phenomenal.....but the Ludhiana example is unique to Ludhiana. The lands of most of us are far away from any small kazba let alone large mega city.

Anyway, I've noticed alot of Canadians, after pressure from their ill-informed children, do sometimes sell the ansestoral land. Perhaps because of a sign of the times we live in, the UK Sikhs by and large tend to hang on to the 1950's and 60's ideals of land and thus hardly ever sell. It is very rare to find a UK Sikh family that is willing to sell.

Hey it's the thread creator again.

Well, this goes both ways, farmland isn't only going up in Punjab. The farming capital of the USA has land going up as well and will continue to go up. A grape farmer with 90 acres can easily make 400,000 dollars a year whereas a cotton farmer in Punjab will make 9 lakh tops a harvest. What I'm trying to say is Punjab's farmland isn't the best, but it is good farm land. Central California farmland has been cultivated much later than Punjab farmland and thus is more fertile (correct me if i'm wrong).

On a personal level, if the relatives who are in control of our zameen isn't cooperating with us and giving us a share then what's the point of having farmland that we can't control. My family, including me has been to this day AGAINST selling farmland and have trusted elders to take care of it but the new generation is after only money, nothing else. We will still have the house in the pind and may keep some farmland, but practically speaking why would we keep something that isn't forming some kind of reward. 9 lakh (around 20,000 USD) compared to 400,000 USD a harvest of grapes.

Another thing is, giving tekha out while being abroad is very risky business for NRIs, even if done on papers. We do have connections, but the problem is so can other people. These things happen on a daily basis where someone can take kabza over zameen and then you're stuck running around in the courts for 10-20 years while spending money/time on the lawyer/dates. The best thing would have a trustworthy direct family member control it, but if no one is trustworthy, then what's the point?

Just some of my thoughts. Also, it's not about money, it's about having something for my parents to ease the rest of their life on and being able to work on the farm with my dad.

Just a question bro, do you have farmland in Punjab?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
Guest OzzySingh

Hi there _farm_

Allow me to share with you my knowledge on this matter. My information will be as reliable as it gets.

For those of you who are wondering where I claim to get my knowledge from, allow me to explain below.

My parents currently spend 90% of their time in Punjab, India even though we are settled outside Punjab in Australia. I myself always spend my spare time here in Punjab helping my father to manage our holdings.

For the past 27 years my 59 year old father has been building up our family acreage in Punjab and today our family is reaping the benefits. Even today my father does sodhe (land dealings) on a regular basis. To this date we have well over a hundred acres in our name.

Ok, in order to help your brainstorming I'll list out the pro's and con's (in no specific order)

Firstly as has been rightfully said above, you must be extremely careful in disclosing your personal information (how many acres you have / where they are located, etc etc) to others including family. Sadly today in Punjab (and India) Paisa is Pardaan (Money Rules). Therefore the number one rule is do not trust anyone outside your immediate family, as sadly even family will scam family for all they have. People are so greedy over here in Punjab they have no issue in looting you for every dollar/pound you have, regardless of whether they are family or not. NRIs are constantly getting ripped off big time by local property dealers as well as local buyers/sellers just for money's sake. So if you ever decide to sell up I recommend not asking your relatives over in Punjab to help but to sell yourself after doing your homework.

Secondly, your right, zameen prices are jumping up so much in value it is ludicrous. To be frank, having land in Punjab today is currently one of the most if THE most highly rewarding investment one can have. The average typical acre of land in Punjab 7 years ago would of been valued between 4-6 lakh. Note this is a proven fact, not some crappy I think I know it all gup shup, we bought 17 acres 7 years ago near our pind in Tehsil. Nakodar, Dist. Jalandhar, back in 2005 for 5 lakh a kila (acre). Guess what? Earlier this year we found a buyer and got them to sign a 9 month biana at 38 lakh per kila. 33 lakh rupee profit per acre, that adds up to 561 lakh rupee profit, to put that into perspective, at today's exchange rate that's around a £680,000 profit by investing only £95,000 7 years ago.

A perceived con is that owning land in Punjab is sort of a gamble, but the truth is that it is not some huge risk that some people make it out to be. In the 27 years that my father expanded his initial 8 acres (given to him by his father) we have acquired and registered as mentioned previously over 100 acres. In that whole time we have never had a single acre taken from us. And my father is an NRI. Thats substantial. The main reasoning for this is that the record keeping system in Punjab is simply terrible. Everywhere from your local electricity daftar to the local tehsila, information is stored in books and then left on shelves for many years. Only recently has the Punjab government bothered to implement electronic record keeping and even that is coming along at a slow pace. You may be wondering what the hell does record keeping have to do with anything? Well it's obvious, if the Punjab government is unable to keep track of who is buying land and where and at what rate then there is little to fear about land being taken as long as you keep mum about it and don't go around telling everyone etc.

I could go on for ever but Im just gonna wrap things up by saying hold onto your land, and sell in a few years, land prices are going to keep rising up but as of now they have currently slowed down (The reason for this is that the Akali party have been re-elected here in Punjab which came as a slight shock to everyone, this is because for the past 20 years or so the government has always switched between Congress and Akali, and land prices rise fastest when the Congress party is in power, due to their more liberal values as opposed to the conservative Akali party). Also I can guarantee you that prices will definitely at some point stop rising as fast as they are rising now regardless of which party is in power.

In my humble opinion i recommend you sell most or all of your zameen in 7-10 years. This will allow you to make the most out of selling your land without actually losing out too much by waiting another 20 years or so etc.

By all means keep a few acres if u desire but anyways that was my 2 cents.

That's me done.

I'm looking forward to more of your opinions on this matter and don't hesitate to ask any more questions if you have any.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest ludhianalion

_ozzysingh_ - what a great post! I really appreciate your honesty and the fact you shared your (considerable) knowledge.

My wife and I were, some weeks ago, considering selling part of our landholding in order to invest the funds in property here. We know the market and we're less likely to suffer problems. However, we went against the idea and thought we would see what the next five years brings.

My father-in-law believes we ought to be investing our savings in purchasing adjoining land - similar thought process to ozzy but have we missed the boat? Prices in Ludhiana zilla do seem to be creeping up on a monthly basis...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Three things --

1. Buy land anywhere you like in this world - it does go up -- dharteee maaa always gives.

2. Nothing goes up for ever.

3. We are depression conditions in the west - east will follow and crash scenrio is very very likely as west will not come out of this era for coupleof decades - just look at Japan have they come out -they were the first to have issues.

Punjab - there is no future for NRI's there or their kids - which is sad - best is to sell and invest abroad in teh west where at least you know it's yours and you don't need to pay someone orfeed someone for years to take care of your land as in india.

Greed -- always has a bad ending - lalach is simply suicide no matter which way you look at it .

Saying that I want to sell some land in the Phagwara area - any one interested plesae mail me on here .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest OzzySingh

To S1ngh:

Hello S1ngh I acknowledge your curiosity and will gladly give you a generalised listing but please understand I would not like to disclose too much information for reasons of security and safety, especially this being the Internet haha :)

What I will write below is a rough roundabout answer of how many acres I have and the Dist they are located in. The roundabout answer is as said above; to not give a concrete answer.

Tarn Taran: 15-20 (all in one spot)

Jalandhar: 40-60 (split into 3 different areas)

Ludhiana: 20-30 (one spot)

Nawanshahr: 20-30 (2 places inc a plot)

To LudhianaLion,

Your very welcome. Upon reading thread I felt compelled to help out and ensure people realised how the so called 'system' works.

Yeah as said before I would personally sell in around 5 years or so.

From my perspective it seems that 5 years from now the average acre will be around 50-60 lakh per acre but it can vary of course due to location.

I feel that this is when prices will start to dramatically slow down in growth and hence would be the best time to sell. :)

To give you an idea our family intend on beginning to start selling our acre in as said before 7-10 years, we estimate that by then the average acre of land (that we own) will hopefully reach 70-80lakh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah as said before I would personally sell in around 5 years or so.

.

I feel that this is when prices will start to dramatically slow down in growth and hence would be the best time to sell. :)

Hang on a minute. You can't just pull decisions out of the air. You have to tell us why the non-stop constant 60 year growth is suddenly gonna come to a standstill in 5 years time (Doaba). Do you know someone who has a brother in law who has an auntie working at the Pentagon who has reliably informed them that the world will come to an end in 5 years time ?

Also, I'm not saying I disbelieve you regarding your landholdings, but I must say that the locations do seem quite unusual to say the least. Normally, with very little cross-region marriage, most landowners only own land in specific region...as this is where the family tradition lies. Very rarely, you do sometimes find people that own land in both Doaba and Malwa. However, this is quite unusual. You however, have somehow managed to become a landowner in Doaba, Malwa AND Majha !! If I had to guess I would say that you are the only agricultural landowner in Punjab to have acheived this feat. Can you explain how this unusual and rare state of affairs came about ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to agree with west london singh jee - ozzysingh u seem to have the medusa touch man.

To predict what is going to happen to land or anything else is just MADNESS as you don;t know what is going to happen to you in the next minute.- However saying that:

Land is dhartaa mata - and she will give always without a doubt.

secondly - 3 businesses if one does with heart - no matter as they will always be required by mankind and that is:

1-- roti -- Food

2. Kapra -- Clothing

3. Makaan- Housing

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest OzzySingh

Hi WLS and Kss

I understand your skepticism on the matter and that's fine. I dot expect anyone to believe me, especially because it seems impossible to own so much land in today's time.

But I'm happy to explain. First of all in regards to acquiring so much land, please note zameen prices were not always so high here. The kila of land bordering a pakki sarak now in Doaba that is being 'valued' at 35lakh was only 5 lakh 7 years ago and was only 10000 rupees in the 1970s/1980s.

Without getting into too much detail, ever since my old man arrived in the UK in the early 1970s he always used to go on about how he wanted to save up and buy land back home. We had a few grocery shops in the UK that my older siblings and parents ran when I was a kid and although we could of bought that 'new' BMW or moved into a nice house my old man always used to fly back to India every few years and spend most of our savings/income to buy more and more

As for how come we have land in all 3 areas of Punjab well it's not exactly hard is it? Our ancestral home is in Jalandhar Dist, Nakodar Teh. If you know your geography Nakodar is on the edge of Jalandhar and Ludhiana Dist. We live 15kms away from a bridge that goes over the Sutlej. Once your over, guess what? Your in Ludhiana.

In sorry but what you seem to be saying is 'wow omg you have land in all 3 different areas of Punjab!?!? Impossible!'

Well derp we have been established in the UK from 1970s until mid millennium when we moved to Australia.

I could write my whole family history here 'bruv' but let's be realistic and say enoughs enough.

As for me somehow being able to predict' land prices will stop rising'

Hahaha, it's my opinion guys I'm not stating it's a fact, hence why I said I feel that may happen. Hell I want to zameen to keep shooting up too as nearly all of our family wealth is in the dirt and fields of Punjab.

But we need to be thinking logically hence why I 'feel' that will likely happen. If your interested In knowing why I think that please read on otherwise save yourself a long read.

But please remember this is my opinion and we're all entitled to one.

The fact is, the agricultural value of land today is decided by the owner and the owner alone. This is usually your typical Jatt zameendar. If he hears that someone nearby sold their zameen for double his price he will immediately contact a local dealer and bump up his prices. There is no government body pushing the prices up, infact the government seems to be slow in realising how much the land in Pubjab is jumping up.

The collector rate/sarkaari rate is what the government thinks the land in a certain area is worth. Every single kila of zameen in the Punjab has an assigned collector rate. Collector rates are used for tax purposes when selling/buying land (the higher the collector rate the more the buyer has to pay in tax at the time of registry) Right now you would extremely lucky in finding zameen that has a collector rate that is higher than a 1/4 or 1/3 or it's asking price.

Likewise though there are a number of things occurring in the Punjab that seem to indicate farming is and will continue to slow down.

For example the water table has been pushed down beyond belief. Uneducated farmers are abusing free water so much it's beyond belief.

The tube wells that only went down 40-60 feet back in the day are gone sorry but that's how it is.

If you can find me a tube well (motor) that is not more than a hundred feet below ground I'll give you a cookie.

There tons of other stuff too that indicate farming is going downhill.

In an article by the Tribune India it was stated that between 2006-2008 the average harvest of chona weighed between 45-50 quintals per acre.

Today the average harvest of chona in october/November is not more than 40 quintals per acre.

The Sindh and Rajasthani deserts are expanding slowly as steadily into the Punjab every year.

The Punjab government has done a few things to improve the future of farming in Punjab, like implementing a ban of transplanting paniri into kehts ready for chona until June 10 every year, but this is too little too late.

Interesting there was another article in the Tribune India (Punjab Section) saying that uneducated farmers keep on burning their fields after harvesting their wheat and turning the leftover wheat stalks into toori (animal feed).

As of now it is very disgusting to go out in Punjab (Yes I'm currently here in India) There is smoke everywhere and in every direction up look someone has set their field on fire just because they are too lazy to clear it themselves ready for chona.

I know I've written a huge post and I could go on all day (I would love to) but my fingers are starting to hurt haha.

What do you guys think?

Just remember I'm not proclaiming to know all but the way things are going there is a strong indication that Zameen isn't always going to quadruple every 4 years sorry.E.g You can see a slow in growth even today.

I'm done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest OzzySingh

One more quick thIng, yes it does seem in that post you quoted WLS, that I was coming off as a psychic future teller.

Forgive me, I meant to say that hang on for 5 years or so and see for yourself how the situation is and the judge whether you would like to sell.

It's up to each and every person for themselves to decide whether they wish to sell or not. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share


  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • yeh it's true, we shouldn't be lazy and need to learn jhatka shikaar. It doesn't help some of grew up in surrounding areas like Slough and Southall where everyone thought it was super bad for amrit dharis to eat meat, and they were following Sant babas and jathas, and instead the Singhs should have been normalising jhatka just like the recent world war soldiers did. We are trying to rectifiy this and khalsa should learn jhatka.  But I am just writing about bhog for those that are still learning rehit. As I explained, there are all these negative influences in the panth that talk against rehit, but this shouldn't deter us from taking khanda pahul, no matter what level of rehit we are!
    • How is it going to help? The link is of a Sikh hunter. Fine, but what good does that do the lazy Sikh who ate khulla maas in a restaurant? By the way, for the OP, yes, it's against rehit to eat khulla maas.
    • Yeah, Sikhs should do bhog of food they eat. But the point of bhog is to only do bhog of food which is fit to be presented to Maharaj. It's not maryada to do bhog of khulla maas and pretend it's OK to eat. It's not. Come on, bro, you should know better than to bring this Sakhi into it. Is this Sikh in the restaurant accompanied by Guru Gobind Singh ji? Is he fighting a dharam yudh? Or is he merely filling his belly with the nearest restaurant?  Please don't make a mockery of our puratan Singhs' sacrifices by comparing them to lazy Sikhs who eat khulla maas.
    • Seriously?? The Dhadi is trying to be cute. For those who didn't get it, he said: "Some say Maharaj killed bakras (goats). Some say he cut the heads of the Panj Piyaras. The truth is that they weren't goats. It was she-goats (ਬਕਰੀਆਂ). He jhatka'd she-goats. Not he-goats." Wow. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard in relation to Sikhi.
    • Instead of a 9 inch or larger kirpan, take a smaller kirpan and put it (without gatra) inside your smaller turban and tie the turban tightly. This keeps a kirpan on your person without interfering with the massage or alarming the masseuse. I'm not talking about a trinket but rather an actual small kirpan that fits in a sheath (you'll have to search to find one). As for ahem, "problems", you could get a male masseuse. I don't know where you are, but in most places there are professional masseuses who actually know what they are doing and can really relieve your muscle pains.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use