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hgsingh
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Bruce lee created his martial art by taking aspects from different martial arts that work and leaving out the garbage

Khaalis you go against bruce lee by going back and learning the traditional martial art over the more modern advanced martial art

The modern martial art that took aspects from several traditional martial arts that worked and left out the garbage

And all martial arts come out of older martial arts and everyone respects traditional martial arts but the modern martial arts are more better

Khaalis what you say is you think the laptop from 2003 is much better cause its older then a laptop from 2010 only a dumby would think that but that's what you saying when it comes to martial arts

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Guest Ksingh5

Bruce lee created his martial art by taking aspects from different martial arts that work and leaving out the garbage

Khaalis you go against bruce lee by going back and learning the traditional martial art over the more modern advanced martial art

The modern martial art that took aspects from several traditional martial arts that worked and left out the garbage

And all martial arts come out of older martial arts and everyone respects traditional martial arts but the modern martial arts are more better

Khaalis what you say is you think the laptop from 2003 is much better cause its older then a laptop from 2010 only a dumby would think that but that's what you saying when it comes to martial arts

You are going nowhere with this discussion, it’s clear in your responses that you are not reading, what others have written.

Your argument has no depth, Fair enough you have an opinion but opinion is all that is. You have not backed your arguments with any facts but just loose opinions.

You repeat number of times in your posts that you have exposed them, exposed them to what?

It’s also very clear that you have no knowledge in your subject matter that is in focus.

Your comparison to a martial art and a laptop speaks for itself. The reason why a laptop from 2010 will be far superior then laptop of 2003 is because the functional mechanics of the hardware has been vastly improved by increasing the speed of the CPU and superior graphics. These are actual physical changes to the hardware of the laptop. So the comparison is flawed.

The human mechanics have not changed over thousands of years, we still have 2 arms and 2 legs, unless you have evolved into Arachnids (8 legged spider) then things are different. Martial arts of the new have changed with the times because the world is politically stable and has evolved into competing arts with rules

This simply has been proven by you many times in your posts by stressing, martial artists should compete.

Even a person with no knowledge of Martial arts would understand, for you to compete, there is a need of a boundary and rules. How can a Martial art compete in a competition, when their main aim is to kill or brake bones.

So how would you use this Modern martial art with multiple numbers, is this training given to you when you join a Modern martial art class? But as you have said they compete in competitions, so they must be trained in a way to win the competitions.

During a street fight you do not have rules, people will fight you in numbers if they can. You will be kicked in the head, legs will be broken and you may even get stabbed.

Does the modern martial arts implement these scenarios within their training? Or are they strictly training you for competitions?

If you would truly like to expose these old martial arts, why are you wasting your time stressing your point on this forum. Why don’t start your own classes?

As you have said somewhere in your posts, you are a Martial arts expert? Which some may disagree with.

On a serious note, what are you trying to prove?

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Thank You KSingh Ji, glad to see I have not been wasting my time...

Had a few spare minutes, so will share a little more now that I know some 'intelligent' people are interested.

Traditionally Muay Thai was did not have weight divisions (most historically practiced arts did/do not).

Muay Thai is an art which uses power. Basically, the bigger you are, the better. This is why very quickly, Russians/Americans/Europeans dominated the competition scene and weight divisions were first introduced. Same is true for boxing, TWD, Karate or any other martial sport. If you are a small guy, and are good at these arts, and do well in competitions - then that is fine. But if you come across someone bigger and stronger who has had similar training (even if not as much) you are in trouble. These arts do not specialise in multiples or weapons, so for streets or warfare, they are only semi-successful. And they definately do not focus on efficiency, quite the opposite. You have to train extremly hard to develop the strength, fitness and power to be successful in these arts, not to mention the individual technical aspects. This is why the 'combat' versions of Muay Thai - Muay/Chaya, Muay Boran and Bokator, don't rely on strikes and blocks alone. They specialise in leverage, locks and breaks also, and strike when safe, rather than that being the 1st option. In a fight, hitting someone contiuously is time/energy wasting, you just want to disable the person, hitting does not achieve this quickly, especially if the guy has experience in fighting (any experience). In sports, that is the reason fights are timed with rounds and rest periods, because of the level of energy expended. The street has no bell.

Some Japanese, Chinese and Filipino arts however rely on leverage, positioning, eliminating the use of blocks, same directional parrys, tactics (baiting) and efficient energy generation/use (internal). These in my opinion are more advanced arts, as reliance on size and strength does not matter. This has traditionally been necessary for South East Asians who are physically smaller than people from the rest of the world. Helio Gracie is a good example of a small (originally very feeble guy) who used a superior traditional eastern art to beat modern/western arts which relied on strength/size ie boxing. But that was in a sports context too.

I mentioned before in this thread that the Israelis are going more towards Japanese Ninjitsu movements, which are totally opposite to Krav (apples and pears).

Here is one good example, Roy Elghanayan, probably the foremost Krav expert in the world (if not in the top handful). He teaches Krav (because that is his national art and also a lucrative business due to its great advertising and popularity), Krav is still popular amongst soldiers in Israel and some western countries because it's easy to learn and effective with aggression/strength. But he has also started up his own form of Jujitsu (which is simply an element of Ninjitsu).

He teaches this to Israeli Special Forces. Krav, although a good 'basic' fight method, is easy to learn for the average jo (and soldier) who only have a short time to learn something. But it also relies on strength and utilises much blocking. It is good as in it has some good finishing psychology, but it is strike intensive, not great for multiple or blades in my opinion (it does not specialise in weapons, although it teaches you basic defences against them, including the cross block, which would get both hands cut instead of one against a mediocre blade user). The good thing about Krav is its training method, this is what makes it quite unique amongst many arts, it focuses a lot on reality scenario. But in traditional arts, the same is true, progressing in the old arts basically meant going from training blades and sticks to real ones, and form 20% energy use to something like 80% (still not full but extremely dangerous). It also meant agressive multiples (open hand and weapons).

Here are a few videos showing Roys different styles (Krav and his adopted Jujitsu):

His students:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZd8-_KwLiw&feature=related

Not really impressed with this. Blocks only work against weaker people, and what the woman does is highly unrealistic (if it were a strong male attacker). The martial arts that Sikhs learn should be equally easy and realistic for a smaller lady to use.

Here he teaches Israeli special forces Krav:

This is ok, but not energy efficient and highly risky. It may work for Roy who has a lifetime of martial arts experience, but to 'catch' an attack out of thin air (see 10 sec) is hugely unrealistic, any good martial artist will tell you that.

Look at this also:

Look at 41 sec, putting your arm in front of a knife like that against someone with the most basic experience with a knife would get your wrist arteries cut in a second.

Plus, they fight linear, Krav relies on aggression and strength, not much footwork.

Here is an example of his jujitsu:

(interesting series, these MMA guys go and train in many traditional arts around the world, and always make a clear distinction that what they are learning is an art of death, as opposed to what they do, sport. They have nothing but respect for the traditional arts. BECAUSE they got off their sofa and made the effort to meet and train with these people, rather than believing hyped up fanatical MMA talk.

As you can see the 2 styles are totally different, JJ relies on leverage, positioning, evasion, going with the attack (rather than opposing it/blocking) etc etc. This style is much better against blades and multiples in my opinion.

Here is a better video by David Haliva, who I mentioned in this thread before. See the difference in the video between how the Special Forces Police naturally act with their basic Krav training and how they respond with Ninjitsu principles, make up your own mind. You will see the Japanese techniques rely on intelligent positioning and body mechanics rather than brute force and aggression. The big difference here is that David is using combat principles i.e. stand up quick fighting/finishing, as oppoed to Roys Jujitsu, which see's him doing a lot of dojoesque movements, going to the floor etc. You cannot afford to go to the floor on the street, you will get battered if there is more than one person. If you have to go to the floor - then what you do there should be fast, and be back up on your feet before the 2nd/3rd person gets any opportunity. There are good Filipino/Indonesian styles which teach you to fight from the floor against guys standing up. Basically controlling/destroying the opponents footwork. Here is a video of David.

I must stress these videos are ok for the trained eye to recognise good and bad principles, but not for learning techniques, there are too many subtleties that the camera does not capture, which can only be learnt from a skilled teacher, in person, who will take you through the learning methodology and correct, progressive development.

I do not have anything against aggressive styles - but some work better than other in my opinion. There are styles which condition your arms to not block an attack, but destroy an attack - one such example is Hung Gar, these guys develop iron like hands and arms, some what similar to the shins of Thai Boxers, and they will literally put their arms through your arms. This is different from a block. At the same time, Muay Thai kicks are definately superior for strength, but not for tactics. South Chinese boxing and Indonesians have tactical low level kicks, which destroy knees, ankles, break your balance etc, all under the radar (no advertising). Other Chinese arts also do super hard conditioning like Chow Gar. You would only understand this when you meet a proper practitioner and spar with them.

Anyways, to lighten the mood, here is one for HGSingh - fan of the Israelies. Did you know... Israel has its own ancient secretive thousands of year old killer art.....based on their ancient sacred scirpture, the Torah (literally).... strangely though, it looks a lot like Jujitsu with some nice decorative detail from Kung Fu?

MLOL - Enjoy:

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Ingh5 and khaalis you guys are dumber then retards and its like talking to the idiots who believe 9 11 was inside job but don't have any evidence it was inside job just claims

I have mentioned many mma fighters come from traditional backgrounds but they all say mma is superior to traditional martial arts cause its more effective

75 percent of traditional martial arts schools say the same stupid thing their martial art is to dangerous to compete in

Khaalis you have proivided nothing about israel wanting to leave krav maga for eastern martial arts but I do know special forces from england take aspects from traditional martial arts but spend most their time learning ji jitsu boxing krav maga and muay thai

All these martial arts that claim they can take on mulitple attackers can't otherwise the navy seals would be focusing on their martial arts rather then muay thai boxing ji jitsu and krav magha

Every traditional martial art claims to be the most dangerous and they can take on mulitple attackers cause that was the intended goal when the martial art was being created but most of them can't do this

This is why you guys are stupid cause people claim this is what the purpose of the martial art is to do doesn't mean it can do it that is why in no rules one on one fighting tournments the traditional martial arts got their butts kicked by muay thai fighters boxers sambo fighters wreslters ji jitsu fighters judo

But to again show how stupid you are khaalis I already said all modern martial arts come out of older martial arts like brazilion ji jitsu You <banned word filter activated>

Khaalis explain this why do the top soldiers in the world train in mma martial arts

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No rules tournments showed in the 90's the martial arts that claim they can take on multiple attackers can't cause they lost in no rules tournemtn were you had two guys from different martial arts fight with no rules and the fighters that won were muay thai boxers wrestlers ji jitsu judo

Now to end debate and show how stupid you are why do top soldiers in the world choose to train in mma martial arts for hand to hand combat and krav maga

And way mma was born was from no rules fighting tournemtns to see which martial arts are best and what was shown were the best martial arts were muay thai boxing wrestling ji jitsu sambo judo

Also if the traditional martial arts you guys talk about could take on multiple attackers then special forces soldiers would focus more time training in those martial arts then mma and krav maga but they can't take on multiple attackers and that's why special forces train in mma and krav maga

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Sashasoormaa your the stupid one

Ksignh 5 sashasoormaa and khaalis I'm going to end debate here and expose how stupid you guys are

Why did martial arts like muay thai wrestling ji jitsu sambo judo work best in no holds bared fighting tournments

Answer cause they work the best

Khaalis why did most traditional martial artist fail in these tournments cause you can't catch punch's and do this or that and I've trained in traditional martial arts I've mentioned this and all traditional martial arts schools try to teach people how to avoid a punch grab their neck and do this and that but those tehcniques don't work against a person who knows how to fight and that's why I'm telling everyone these techniques look cool in deomonstrations but when you see these guys spar they are unable to use them and why did they not work in no holds bared fighting??

Khaalis first thing you said before boxers and muay thai fighters use gloves for training actually that's wrong they use their hands so they can cause little micro fractures in the bones to make them stronger

And muay thai and boxing isn't for bigger stronger guys when it comes to street fighting I've seen guys with boxing and muay thai training end fights with guys ir size within seconds reason being you learn to become a riker in muay thai and boxing

But to show how stupid you three are why does the united states military have mma tournments and use mma techniques in their hand to hand combat

Answer cause these techniques are the best form of hand to hand combat and the military is going to focus on training their soldiers on the best form of hand to hand combat and not waste time and money training them in something that can only be used in the ring

If traditional martial arts were more effective then mma then navy seals and us military would focus their time and energy on training in those arts and not mma

And green berets trainmilar to mma fighters when it comes to hand to hand combat

Now isreal and united states military focus on learning as much as they can from all martial arts and use as many tools from as many martial arts as they can but their is a reason they focus on mma the most

Take niddar singh's hand to hand combat system from his videos they look cool in demonstrations but don't work in real life and will get you hurt if your against someone who knows how to fight and if these guys ever release videos of them sparring you won't see students using techniques. From what they learned in deomonstrations just like most traditional martial arts schools

U talked about gracie family kicking peoples butts using techniques from eastern martial arts to show how stupid you are how many times has it bin mentioned modern martial arts like ji jitsu take aspects from other traditional martial arts take what works and leaves out the garbage and that's why they work best and better then traditional martial arts

That's why gracie family defeated fighters from boxing kung fu ninjitsu karate and many other martial arts backgrounds in no holds bared tournments and they defeated mostly guys from traditional martial arts backgrounds

And please name me one mma fighter who got off the couch and learned traditional martial arts while training mma and says traditional martial arts are deadly and mma is just a sport

And you need to use your own advice get off the couch and train and learn martial arts and mma isn't just hype its the real deal that's why the us military train in it for hand to hand combat an have competitions

So khaalis get off the couch you fatso cause you just exposed whjy you hate mma cause you need to be physically fit to be able to use it and stop believing the hype when it comes to traditional martial arts otherwise most people who trained in traditional martial arts would bdangerous fighters which they are not

No one is sitting on the couch just believing mma hype cause thype about mma its the real deal

Reason you took shots at mma being for people only physically fit is cause you are brutally out of shape and know I exposed what a waste of time a lot of martial arts schools are when you got fat black belts

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History on how the ufc begun

The gracie family for decades challenged and had accepted all challenges from different martial arts masters in no rules one on one fighting to show how effective their martial art was and they dominated

In brazil you had vale tudo tournments which was no rule fighting were you could bite a guys eye out if you wanted to see which martial art was best for one on one fighting

Ps if a maral art can't win a one on one fight they can't take on multiple attackers

So some americans saw what was going on in brazil and decided to have a pay per view event which was a tournment were you took the best martial artists from different martial arts and have them fight to see which martial art was best

Their were no judges and no rounds and no clock you fought till a fighter was knocked out or submitted

The way they marketed ufc 1 was to see which martial art is best

At the time they were not trying to create a sport and ufc was spose to be a one time event but cause money was made on ufc 1 they went on to do 2 and 3 and kept going

What happened to the ufc was it got banned on paper view in many states porn was on payperview but ufc was banned

In most of america it was banned and ufc was going bankrupt cause they couldn't market it and their were very little sponcers and the ufc begun losing a lot of money but they tried changing it and they added rules judges and so on but the ufc was still going under and the gracie family got mad at rules being added cause they said the purpose of the ufc was to show americans which martial arts work best but once rules got added the gracie family left ufc

But in the begining what america saw was the same thing that happened in brazil in vale tudo tournments that martial arts like muay thai dominated all other martial arts in stand up and ji jitsu dominated all martial arts in ground and martial arts like wrestling boxing sambo judo were destroying most martial arts

Mma is mixed martial arts so its learning many disiplines but people got to see which martial arts worked best so those were the martial arts people trained in so mma came to be begining people wanted to see which martial arts worked best when people got to see which martial arts worked best people started training in those martial arts so muay thai boxing ji jitsu wrestling judo and sambo

And that's mma

American military trains mma and has tournments and they don't got the time to waste theirs a reason they train fighters in mma and have tournments cause they see it as best form of hand to hand combat

They spend more money then anyone else to produce the best military in the world and their good at cruhing armies but bad when it comes to changing people hence why they crushed iraq military in less3 weeks and the talibon within few weeks but don't have support of the people and is why they got stuck in iraw and afghanistan and they aint changing people in afghanistan cause their wasting time killing talibon

Their is so much evidence out their mma working better then traditional martial arts but very little evidence of traditional martial arts working against mma

Traditional martial arts make claims of how effective what they teach is but fail to prove it

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