Is Listening To Music Bad For Gurskih

[Mehtab Singh]

Sikhi is not dogmatic, like how many so called know it alls (not necessarily you) make it out to be. That's what makes it beautiful and unique. Anyway, I'm not saying you should listen to what ever you want, obviously there has to be limits. For example, hardcore gangster rap is obviously a no no. But what gets to me is when you lot say anything but kirtan is off limits. That's where it becomes pretty extreme and quite frankly, silly. It depends on what is being said in the song, the level of spirituality of the listener and the intentions to listen to it. Every case is different. Things are not black and white at all.

Fair enough and valid points, thus well taken. Now here is an open challenge. Listen to nothing but keertan for the next 1 month. Come back a month later and try listening to anything else and honestly confess if you didn't feel like puking. If you do, you've got your answer, if you don't, you'd still know what rocks your boat.

[Akal Warrior]

Just curious...to the people who say that anything but Kirtan is wrong..do you ever watch TV or movies? How about reading the newspaper or surfing the web for non-Gurbani related things (funny pictures, interesting articles etc.) Would that be considered wrong too?

[Kalsingh]

Why do you call it dogma (rule that you don't like, if you liked it then you wouldn't have spoken against it) when another calls it following Satguru's Hukam (Pyare). The poster above you has given a Shabad that tells us exactly waht not to do and what to do. YOu see this as dogma. We all don't have enough pyare for Maharaj, but when you refer to it as dogma, then you reveal something of your jeevan. YOu seriously lack a deeper pyare for Maharaj. A husband and wife get tried sometimes from listening to their spouse talk, when they have been married for a long time. Then they go find some quiet time alone or find a activity (chilling with the boys) to do that get's them far away from their spouse. When we say i can listen to the faithless cynic, then we are utlimately saying, Maharaj I am tried of listening to/reading Gurbani in katha, kirtan, Dhadhi, paat form. So I need a break. Some take a couple hour break and some take a day break and the really unfortunate souls take year or many life time breaks. Essentially, Gurbani doesn't give us a feeling of contentment (we lack the ability to understand Gurbani). Have you ever seen a dog filled with love for his owner, where the dog can't control himself and is jumping allover the owner. But when the owner leaves the dog is alright for a bit, but then completely gets depressed because his owner isn't there with him. Another can come, but the dog lays in the same position depressed and sings his owners praises all day, wishing the owner will come back. But as soon as the owner comes back the dog regains all it's energy and is a completely different dog.

Gurbani tells us to do paat 24/7. You see this as dogma, but a Gursikh see's this as being in love. Just like you don't tell yourself to breath and your body is in love with the breath. Gursikhs don't have to force the 24/7 pyare for Maharaj. Just like how the fish can't live without water for a second, a Sikh can't live without Gurbani for a second. Gurbani gives us the metaphor how a bride longs for her husband to come back home and can't live without him. Another person or a group of friends can come to the house, but the bride is still waiting for her husband and the feeling of separation is not departing. In the same way we need to develop the pyare for Maharaj. When the husband comes home, then the bride is filled with joy and content. This bride will not search else where for love and Satguru tells us we need to learn from this and love Maharaj this way.

Read it and this is the message Maharaj is giving us

AiBmwnu Koie Koie Koie KoeI hau mo kau siqgur mMqRü idRVwey ]3] abhimaan khoe khoe khoe khoee ho mo ko sathigur ma(n)thra dhrirraaeae ||3|| I have destroyed, destroyed, destroyed my pride, since the True Guru implanted His Mantra within me. ||3||

This line is from the shabad the above poster from your post pasted a link too.

Only Five, <edited> That shabad, you have taken out of context. A faithless cynic is one who does not believe in God and bangs on about and glorifies maya in their lyrics. Of course it is not good to listen to their songs. Read my post again you, that's exactly what I said!

However, there are songs and artists out there which talk about things in life and deep things too, and these artists believe in God. They are not faithless cynics! People who can relate to that, you're still telling me they can't listen to that music?

Like Akal Warrior says, don't you let your kids or yourself or whoever listen to the news, watch moderate tv, read the newspaper etc? Because if you do, then you are a hypocrite. <edited>.

[Mehtab Singh]

Just curious...to the people who say that anything but Kirtan is wrong..do you ever watch TV or movies? How about reading the newspaper or surfing the web for non-Gurbani related things (funny pictures, interesting articles etc.) Would that be considered wrong too?

Lets stay on topic. This topic was started only about music, not TV or news or researching stuff online. Please start a separate thread on that.

[Only five]

Only Five, <edited> That shabad, you have taken out of context. A faithless cynic is one who does not believe in God and bangs on about and glorifies maya in their lyrics. Of course it is not good to listen to their songs. Read my post again you, that's exactly what I said!

However, there are songs and artists out there which talk about things in life and deep things too, and these artists believe in God. They are not faithless cynics! People who can relate to that, you're still telling me they can't listen to that music?

Like Akal Warrior says, don't you let your kids or yourself or whoever listen to the news, watch moderate tv, read the newspaper etc? Because if you do, then you are a hypocrite. <edited>.

The problem here is you are speaking about relativity. You put forth the idea that the non-believer in God is worse than the guy who has some faith in God (Full faith would make him a Gurmukhs, which your artist clearly are not). The Shabad which was posted to you says both are faithless cynics. The non-believer is completely lost in ego and the other artist, song writer is lost in singing his own praises (I know this much about God so i am going to make a song about it). Some are completely faithless cynics and some are to a degree, but at the end we are all faithless cynics. Only Gurbani, Gurmukhs, Gursikhs are faithful. I agree with Mehtab Singh, you should listen to a month of kirtan and nothing else. The shabad that was posted to you also says the following:

rsnw Agh Agh gun rwqI nYn drs rMgu lwey ] rasanaa ageh ageh gun raathee nain dharas ra(n)g laaeae ||

My tongue is imbued with the Praises of the inaccessible and unfathomable Lord, and my eyes are drenched with the Blessed Vision of His Darshan.

The songs and artist that you say have faith in God, are they filled with faith to this level of praise of Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj? If you answer this question honestly, then you will understand what is meant by faithless cynic and what is meant by faithful.

Lastly, the idea that you need to compete with me or another to be referred as a better Sikh needs to be erased from your mind. You or Akal Warrior would not ask such question of do you watch tv, read newspaper, etc if you understood this Shabad. Seriously there is not limited space in Sachkhand, where you compete with another.

[HDSH]

:dry2:

If listening to anything other than kirtan is "wrong", then I suppose we should stop doing dhadhi vaara and kavishri in our Gurdwaras

[Only five]

:dry2:

If listening to anything other than kirtan is "wrong", then I suppose we should stop doing dhadhi vaara and kavishri in our Gurdwaras

:dry2:

How so

[Kalsingh]

The problem here is you are speaking about relativity. You put forth the idea that the non-believer in God is worse than the guy who has some faith in God (Full faith would make him a Gurmukhs, which your artist clearly are not). The Shabad which was posted to you says both are faithless cynics. The non-believer is completely lost in ego and the other artist, song writer is lost in singing his own praises (I know this much about God so i am going to make a song about it). Some are completely faithless cynics and some are to a degree, but at the end we are all faithless cynics. Only Gurbani, Gurmukhs, Gursikhs are faithful. I agree with Mehtab Singh, you should listen to a month of kirtan and nothing else. The shabad that was posted to you also says the following:

rsnw Agh Agh gun rwqI nYn drs rMgu lwey ] rasanaa ageh ageh gun raathee nain dharas ra(n)g laaeae ||

My tongue is imbued with the Praises of the inaccessible and unfathomable Lord, and my eyes are drenched with the Blessed Vision of His Darshan.

The songs and artist that you say have faith in God, are they filled with faith to this level of praise of Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj? If you answer this question honestly, then you will understand what is meant by faithless cynic and what is meant by faithful.

Lastly, the idea that you need to compete with me or another to be referred as a better Sikh needs to be erased from your mind. You or Akal Warrior would not ask such question of do you watch tv, read newspaper, etc if you understood this Shabad. Seriously there is not limited space in Sachkhand, where you compete with another.

Mate, it baffles me how you come to the conclusion that I feel I need to compete with you to become a better Sikh, I have no idea where you get this idea from and don't really want to know to be honest!

Now you are saying I don't understand the shabad. Why do you make personal attacks?

My point is that Sikhi is not black and white. Please look at the word itself for God's sake. Sikh means learner. You can never have a perfect sikh until he/she becomes a brahmgiani. You clearly find it very very difficult to accept and understand that every person is on their own journey, some are closer to what they should be, some or not as close but they are still Sikhs (learners).

Obviously, the ultimate aim is to be imbued with bani 24/7 but there is less than one per cent who are truly that. Even yourself, if you were what you preach, you wouldn't be on this forum engaging in these pointless (sorry but they are, as we completely have different views on these matters) debates or discussions.

The artists I refer to are not necessarily singing their own praises. They are talking about philosophical things and trying to relate to people on their level. This can be very therapeutic in fact and help one develop in life and yes spiritually too.

[HDSH]

:dry2:

How so

Perhaps it wasn't clear from the post, I was being sarcastic

Edit: Just realized my reponse above wouldn't help, allow me to explain.

Dhadi vaar and kavishri are also not classified as Gurbani Kirtan. So then, if all non-kirtan songs are to be shunned then lets shun dhadhi and kavishri as well.

What people are saying here is like saying: oh look, tabla/harmonium is used in a kotha (where prostitutes dance, used to happen in old times a lot) so lets stop using it in Kirtan. Just because something is used in bad ways does not mean it can also not be used in good ways. Things are typically never black and white so lets try to avoid treating them as such.

[Only five]

Mate, it baffles me how you come to the conclusion that I feel I need to compete with you to become a better Sikh, I have no idea where you get this idea from and don't really want to know to be honest!

Because you asked me if i watch tv, read newspaper, etc.

Now you are saying I don't understand the shabad. Why do you make personal attacks?

If i said you don't understand the Shabad and this is a personal attack then you saying I took the Shabad out of context is also a personal attack. But you saying i took the Shabad out of context is not a personal attack and your opinion that disagrees with me. And i disagree with you, but I don't disagree with you because it's my opinion. At the end of this post i am going to post a katha by Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Maharaj. Take the time out to listen to it.

My point is that Sikhi is not black and white. Please look at the word itself for God's sake. Sikh means learner. You can never have a perfect sikh until he/she becomes a brahmgiani. You clearly find it very very difficult to accept and understand that every person is on their own journey, some are closer to what they should be, some or not as close but they are still Sikhs (learners).

Bhai Sahib, Veer ji, Baba ji, one of your first post in this thread started off by saying everyone is wrong and extreme. If you took the meaning of Sikh to heart, then you would have said, i am still learning so how do i know what is right and wrong. So i can't say someone is wrong or right. I am still learning. Also i know some are further down their jeevan than me and obviously these Baba ji's are getting their facts from somewhere else, so maybe instead of calling others extreme. I should ask them and only say you are taking Shabad out of context once i have heard a Brahmgyanis katha on the Shabad and the Brahmgyani says they are wrong. I completely understand that everyone is on a different level and i have stated this many times in other posts. What you don't like is when i or another tells us the right way of doing stuff. Then you jump out of your seat and start jumping up and down to get everyone to follow the level your at. If you want to listen to artist, then by all means, but don't bring Sikhi down to your level.

Obviously, the ultimate aim is to be imbued with bani 24/7 but there is less than one per cent who are truly that. Even yourself, if you were what you preach, you wouldn't be on this forum engaging in these pointless (sorry but they are, as we completely have different views on these matters) debates or discussions.

Actually it's not obvious for some because they still want to say i can listen to music. It's like this....a runner that wants the gold medal and be the fastest runner in the world doesn't say, hey i still can eat fatty food, which will slow me down. He's not trying to be the fattest runner, but the fastest. Yes we know you have a different opinion and you voiced it loud by calling others extreme. Any more rocks my way will be just fine, make sure they are large in size.

The artists I refer to are not necessarily singing their own praises. They are talking about philosophical things and trying to relate to people on their level. This can be very therapeutic in fact and help one develop in life and yes spiritually too.

Next time you do Sri Japji Sahib da paat listen very carefully to where Maharaj is saying everyone is speaking. Specifically pauri 2 also pauri 21. Sri Anand Sahib da paat tells us don't listen to kachi Bani. Maharaj tells us in this paat to go to the Guru and sing his praises. The objective of this game is to keep rising toward Satguru's direction. If we can run, then run, if the fat of maya is holding our legs down, then speed walk, if the fat of maya has taken over our lungs and and we feel like a big fat block, then start walking, if the fat of maya doesn't even let you get out of the chair or bed, then deprive the fat of it's source, so you can get to the level of walking.

So here is the katha.

audios / Katha / Puratan Katha / Sant Gurbachan Singh (Bhindran wale) / Guru Granth Sahib Larivaar Katha /

Raag Sri Raag Ang 60