Jatts and Sikhi

[hanuman]

Caste is not part of sikhi. My question is why we single out one caste when it comes to this issue? Some Jats are known to be proud of their farming heritage and lifestyle, and have taken it to the point where they write songs about it. There are also folk tales of famous jats.

But becuase of this the Jats are the primary target when it comes to the caste issue, because they are more open in the fact they are jat. If we were to split Punjab up, Jats make up 60-70 percent of the population. If there were any other caste with the majority, im pretty sure we would be talking about them being the problem of caste.

But as stated in another thread, Sikhi wants to stop ALL of this and not just by accusing one particular group. The fact is, every caste deals with their own be it Tarkhon, aluwalia, darji etc. This is because of lifestyle similarities and thinking. This is why castes tend to marry into the same caste, so there is no 'culture shock'. However, if we truly lived by Gurbani, we would truly have the same lifestyle. This, however, is not even near the reality of things.

All this being said, i see the real problem with the non-jat castes who, becuase of whatever insecurity it maybe, open up 'Caste Only' Gurdwaras which in my mind goes against everything having a Gurdwara represents. An example of this is Ramgarhia Gurdwaras sprouting up everywhere. As well, the Gurdwaras where people from particular castes only go to. I dont see any Jat Gurughars and i dont see Jats choosing one gurdwara to go to just because other Jats go there.

The jat caste maybe wrong, but we are focusing too much on them being anti-sikh, and TOTALLY forge

tting about the ENTIRE caste problem. Lets not ignore the problem with Jats, but lets not forget about everyone else too who is guilty.

[stopsingh]

Caste is not part of sikhi. My question is why we single out one caste when it comes to this issue? Some Jats are known to be proud of their farming heritage and lifestyle, and have taken it to the point where they write songs about it. There are also folk tales of famous jats.

But becuase of this the Jats are the primary target when it comes to the caste issue, because they are more open in the fact they are jat. If we were to split Punjab up, Jats make up 60-70 percent of the population. If there were any other caste with the majority, im pretty sure we would be talking about them being the problem of caste.

But, like i stated in another thread, Sikhi wants to stop ALL of this and not just by accusing one particular group. The fact is, every caste deals with their own be it Tarkhon, aluwalia, darji etc. This is because of lifestyle similarities and thinking. This is why castes tend to marry into the same caste, so there is no 'culture shock'. However, if we truly lived by Gurbani, we would truly have the same lifestyle. This, however, is not even near the reality of things.

All this being said, i see the real problem with the non-jat castes who, becuase of whatever insecurity it maybe, open up 'Caste Only' Gurdwaras which in my mind goes against everything having a Gurdwara represents. An example of this is Ramgarhia Gurdwaras sprouting up everywhere. As well, the Gurdwaras where people from particul

ar castes only go to. I dont see any Jat Gurughars and i dont see Jats choosing one gurdwara to go to just because other Jats go there.

The jat caste maybe wrong, but we are focusing too much on them being anti-sikh, and TOTALLY forgetting about the ENTIRE caste problem. Lets not ignore the problem with Jats, but lets not forget about everyone else too who is guilty.

Most caste issues are tagged with Jats, but has anyone ever seen a Gurdwara named with the intention of linking it with Jats ?

It is usually Ramgharia (thakaan) etc who make caste an issue by specifically using Ramgharia in the name of the Gurdwara.

[sikhlionz]

it is ridiculous that caste is even still an issue confronting the panth

Some members of the cobbler caste choose to set up gudwaras named guru ravidas gurdwara and have different nishaan flags to the traditional khanda nishaan sahib ji. On this point i hope from my heart they would meet halfway on this issue and my personal opinion is try Guru Ramdas ji Gurdwara which would please all concerned. Considering any 1 bhagat alone as Guru would cause emphasis on certain areas of Gurbani over others thus why guru dhanna gurdwaras dont pop up. Only in entirity can SGGS be proclaimed Guru Sahib ji.

However on the whole to their credit Thurkhan and Cobbler, etc. Gurdwaras are still run to good standards but little niggling problems with committees discriminating against other castes often occur

Not just caste, even in the panth there is segregation based on sects like jathae or cults like Radhaswamis. When it came to caste and culture people were asked which pend they were born in. With sects; people are asked which Gurdwara they took amrit.

there have been members of ALL sects, castes, creeds, denominations, groups, etc. that have given shaheedi in our religion or contributed to Guru Sahib or the functioning of the Panth

instead of this segregation let's just stand as 1 panth

peace

[Guest mehtab]

GURU NANAK GURDWARA

GURU RAM DAS GURDWARA

GURU ARJAN DEV GURDWARA

GURU TEGH BAHADUR GURDWARA

I love these names! Why can't we have such names!

[sikhlionz]

i'm advocating their use

[stopsingh]

GURU NANAK GURDWARA

GURU RAM DAS GURDWARA

GURU ARJAN DEV GURDWARA

GURU TEGH BAHADUR GURDWARA

I love these names! Why can't we have such names!

We do have such names :TH: . Its just that certain sections of the Sikh quam prefer to use names with descriptives like Ramgharia etc etc.

[HardeepSinghKhalsa]

I think it is ridilous having a Gurdwhara named after Ramgharia, that means only tharkhans can do mutha teekh their. I am not a tharkhan, but i still go their every morning, they dont say nothing to me. In the next 2 generations the caste system will finish. Its mostly the older people who believe in caste. I asked this man why do you call this gurdwhara Ramgharia and he said because in south africa (about 50 years ago) the jatts use to win the votes and the tharkhans hardly never use to win the votes. That why they named the Gurdwhara Ramgharia, only Tharkahns can be members. He also said any one can come hear, but only the members can be Tharkhan. I thought to myslef fair enough init.

[SSB]

Its mostly the older people who believe in caste

true i have many argumentys with my grandmopther about caste system because she believes in it

[DhadiMania]

all caste is just mere supirotity over others.

when the aryans invaded india, they asigned many people to do certain work (i.e. the people of kalinga will be farmers, while this part of india will be woodworkers) and it went on as so. but many people began to emigrate to other cities. but the caste system was basically groups of people doing work. the aryans then mapped out which groups were better than the other groups (i.e. jatts were more superior than turkhans because they gave food and turkhans made shelter but, they got their strength from jats.) and the aryans kept on doing things as so.

this use of caste system just went over the top in the time of the gurus. i.e. if your work had something to do with mud, you couldnt worship god. but the gurus sorted that out.

In the next 2 generations the caste system will finish.

you would be very suprised about that. the school i go to (city of leicester school), alot of the youth are heavily influenced by the punjabi culture. there was one girl, who acts like a man, and she constantly hangs around with jats. i have never seen her with a turkhan. clearly with people like her. the caste system will carry on and on and on. i mean look at the lyrics "jat this, jat that". but these people singing about jats, there not exactly farmers are they? there working in the western world now. no where near living in punjab.

hey hanuman, why dont you take this matter to the gya

nis at your gurdwara, you said to me once you learnt alot from them. see what they say.

bhol chukke muaff

[HardeepSinghKhalsa]

Vaheguru Jee Kaa Khalsa Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh!!

We put so much energy into the caste system, but if we put the amount of energy we put into the caste system, into sikhi we could get some where. People don't understand, the Khalsa panth could be very very strong if we all become good sikhs. And if our khalsa panth does become strong, we would'nt be going through problums like Guru Granth Sahib Jee's saroops being disrespected in ek niwas and british libary. So please drop the caste system and if we do become better sikhs we will realise how better it is and you will think why did i follow the caste system in the first place. Who ever follows the caste system, you could ruin it for all the others who dont.