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Marriage, The Perception Of Beards And Turbans, And The Future Of Our Religion (My Story)


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@ california sardar - You're trying too hard. I'm getting a headache just reading about your efforts. Chill out and let it happen naturally. If it doesn't, then there must be a reason for that as well.

Why are you thinking about your kid's Sikhi appearance when you aren't even engaged to be married yet?!? Cross that bridge when you arrive at it!

You remind me of a Sikh Woody Allen. :biggrin2:

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Souns devius 2try n hook a gal by lyin

. N c bit sad 2 . Hav u tried bein yo self . If u hav then it myt b sumtin rong wi u. Try go 2 sum assertivnes traini . Gals luv a guy dat knoz ow 2treat em ryt. But it sounz lyk u no got 2 tha stage o evn meetin galz. Try doin a speech sumwherz n c if u pull ;). N don't b 2fussy neithr

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  • 3 weeks later...

Guys, the more I think about it the more I realize just why kesh is important for spiritual growth.

If you are going to keep your kesh, you are going to have to let go of the natural desire humans have to be perceived as attractive or popular or trendy. You are going to have to keep your lust for the opposite sex in check. You are going to have to control many of the desires that humans are consumed by.

I thought if I tied the nicest, most impressive looking pag and if I fixed up my beard and tied it perfectly (so that it would look short, but still natural ... not all greasy and unnatural with the excessive fixer or gel or spray) it would make a difference.

Surely some of those girls who love listening to bhangra songs sung by singers with impressive pags and trimmed beards would look at me and say "he's kind of cute."

But no, it doesn't really matter what I do. A pag is a pag and an uncut beard is an uncut beard. Why take a second look, if you're a girl, when you can just find a mona so easily?

I tried to look at myself in the mirror and instill some sense of pride (or even arrogance). "Look at me, I'm a sardar. I'm descended from the powerful zamindars." I tried to pretend I had some special (secular) status. You know all those bhangra songs talking about "putt sardaran de". They aren't talking about sardars in a religious sense. It's about an obsession with some sort of perceived status that comes with belonging to a certain social group. I tried to feel proud of my appearance in a non-religious, secular way. Because that's what most girls are attracted to, I thought. I tried to be more proud of my "jatt" background than my "sikh" background, because that's how I thought I needed to present myself. (I apologize for referencing a caste.)

Well, my attempts to claim some sort of status, to feel like I was part of some exclusive group, that it was all my birthright ... they amounted to nothing and did not help.

Girls who express an attraction to those who are culturally punjabi/jatt are generally specific about excluding the cultural aspects that I was hoping they would include (kesh and pag)

Having a well-recognized jatt surname does not make you part of some group or give you any acceptance. The "mainstream" punjabi/sikh/jatt crowd will never accept you, period. Blood doesn't matter.

Perhaps this is what Guru Gobind Singh Ji intended when he told us to keep our kesh. Perhaps we are only realizing it in this day and age. There is no social status, or popularity or sex appeal attached to keeping your kesh and wearing a pag. If you are going to do it, you can't do it these days for artificial reasons (at least in the West). You are going to have to keep your ego and desire in check and do it for religion and nothing else.

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Guys, the more I think about it the more I realize just why kesh is important for spiritual growth.

If you are going to keep your kesh, you are going to have to let go of the natural desire humans have to be perceived as attractive or popular or trendy. You are going to have to keep your lust for the opposite sex in check. You are going to have to control many of the desires that humans are consumed by.

I thought if I tied the nicest, most impressive looking pag and if I fixed up my beard and tied it perfectly (so that it would look short, but still natural ... not all greasy and unnatural with the excessive fixer or gel or spray) it would make a difference.

Surely some of those girls who love listening to bhangra songs sung by singers with impressive pags and trimmed beards would look at me and say "he's kind of cute."

But no, it doesn't really matter what I do. A pag is a pag and an uncut beard is an uncut beard. Why take a second look, if you're a girl, when you can just find a mona so easily?

I tried to look at myself in the mirror and instill some sense of pride (or even arrogance). "Look at me, I'm a sardar. I'm descended from the powerful zamindars." I tried to pretend I had some special (secular) status. You know all those bhangra songs talking about "putt sardaran de". They aren't talking about sardars in a religious sense. It's about an obsession with some sort of perceived status that comes with belonging to a certain social group. I tried to feel proud of my appearance in a non-religious, secular way. Because that's what most girls are attracted to, I thought. I tried to be more proud of my "jatt" background than my "sikh" background, because that's how I thought I needed to present myself. (I apologize for referencing a caste.)

Well, my attempts to claim some sort of status, to feel like I was part of some exclusive group, that it was all my birthright ... they amounted to nothing and did not help.

Girls who express an attraction to those who are culturally punjabi/jatt are generally specific about excluding the cultural aspects that I was hoping they would include (kesh and pag)

Having a well-recognized jatt surname does not make you part of some group or give you any acceptance. The "mainstream" punjabi/sikh/jatt crowd will never accept you, period. Blood doesn't matter.

Perhaps this is what Guru Gobind Singh Ji intended when he told us to keep our kesh. Perhaps we are only realizing it in this day and age. There is no social status, or popularity or sex appeal attached to keeping your kesh and wearing a pag. If you are going to do it, you can't do it these days for artificial reasons (at least in the West). You are going to have to keep your ego and desire in check and do it for religion and nothing else.

Well said, brother.

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I'll probably get criticised (or 'stick' as they call it in England) for this but aside from the Gursikh bibis, I really don't hold Sikh girls in high esteem. They're all walking cliches with the same base desires and motivations across the board. Not that the guys are any better but we're talking about the females in this instance. (Actually there are a handful of non-Gursikh bibis who have their head screwed on right, but they shun Sikh guys and prefer white men as long-term partners. Again I guess that's a reflection on Sikh guys - or is it?).

When was the last time you struck up a conversation with a Sikh girl about literature or non-Bollywood / Panjabi music? When did they express a desire in politics, culture, the outside world - basically anything beyond their own hollow existence and the materialistic, shallow world they've been raised in? There's no desire for self-improvement or self-reflection on their part.

Stick them in tight-fitting black jeans and a low-cut top (and no, I've not been looking but I'm also not blind) and you can't tell which is which. A good man with something to offer beyond the superficial should not have to fish amongst these potential slim pickings for a life partner, because you'll spend most of your life trying to please her and attain her approval when in reality the void in HER soul cannot ever be filled by the material things in life.

Become the best Sikh you can be, and even if you struggle with the kesh and dhari aspect of Sikhi at least try to work towards that goal whilst keeping your principles and morals in-tact and allow Sikhi to linger on your mind. Then hopefully, with God's grace, you will meet the right girl who has such a lot to offer you...

....beyond her looks which will fade once she hits 30, and she'll end up resembling your potential mother-in-law. No amount of trips to the salon and the gym are going to fix that particular problem! :lol2:

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don't judge a book by it's cover have you seen how many girls rastafarians get they look the same as us some of them are more worse with dreadlocks. It's all about who you are as a person, the issue with islamic terrorists is they are full of hate you can see love off someones face. People want to live with a personality not the outside, even guys with huge stomachs get beards, the hippies get girls. No woman likes low self esteem or low confidence and you shown it with your post above, get a confidence boost.

If anyone bases a marriage on looks or the outside shell it won't ever last hence why we see huge divorce rates, one big factor in marriage is money and being a guy it's easier for guys then girls. People use kesh as an excuse if the people you seen in your small area don't like kesh then they are simply what you call shallow travel around a bit you will see people who will look at your as if they are blind get to know you and see how you talk or react. Also there is someone right for you, if you are not much of a talker putting butter on it or sugar coated words then you can get someone like you who will equally like you for what they share in common with you.

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california_sardar - looks like you have come to my conclusions expressed in earlier posts in this thread. You are right, doesn't matter how well you tie your dhari or pag or how well you groom yourself to fit in - You will never.

At this point of realisation you need to decide where you stand and what you want to do. To go through this it is hard but essential in travelling spiritually. Otherwise wearing a pag you just pass through life as if you were just an old person. This is why dukh is the medicine, it forces you to re-look at things...........best of luck brother.

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  • 2 months later...

california_sardar - looks like you have come to my conclusions expressed in earlier posts in this thread. You are right, doesn't matter how well you tie your dhari or pag or how well you groom yourself to fit in - You will never.

At this point of realisation you need to decide where you stand and what you want to do. To go through this it is hard but essential in travelling spiritually. Otherwise wearing a pag you just pass through life as if you were just an old person. This is why dukh is the medicine, it forces you to re-look at things...........best of luck brother.

You are right. The conclusions you expressed in your earlier posts were right on target.

In this day and age, a young man wanting to keep his Sikh identity in tact must be prepared to go through life without a community to call his own (unless you want to count the increasingly small and scattered population of keshdari Sikhs). To make such a decision, one must be prepared to let go of many worldly desires and truly travel a spiritual path.

I've resigned myself to the fact that that's just the way it is and the way it will be. I've made my choice and am prepared to live out my life under these circumstances.

The question, however, for everyone here: is this satisfactory or acceptable for our quam? How many people can stand alone?

Perhaps I will be ok and maybe you will all be ok as well. But what is going to happen to our community as a whole?

It all sounds ok in theory: only the truly strong will remain, and perhaps that's how it should be. It will eliminate the weak.

But let me ask all of you: are you prepared for the keshdari Singh to be reduced to a fringe figure you read about in books and see once in a while when you visit Harmandar Sahib?

If not, can we try to do anything to prevent this? Should we? Or is this vaheguru's will?

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