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Khalasthan86

Can One Be Shasterdhari Without Amrit?

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Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh

In Sikhi, is it permitted for one to be Shasterdhari

without Amrit?

As, I was listening to Kathaa by Sant Jarnail Singh Jee,

and He was mentioning become Shasterdhari.

but he didnt mention anything about being shasterdhari and Amritdhari.

dont get me wrong, i know sant jee said become amritdhari.

but can we be equipped with shasters if we're still not amritdhari???

Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh

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An Amritdhari is supposed to be shasterdhari. Think of it this way. A cop has the right to carry firearms. Other citizens need permit and then have other restrictions as well. For the most part they won't be carrying their gun openly even if they have a permit/license for it. A cop however is in uniform and always wears it on the outside. Thats how I understand it. An Amritdhari has made a commitment and thus carries shasters. A non-Amritdhari has not. No one will stop a non-Amritdhari from carrying shasters, but he/she doesn't have that kind of responsibility the way an Amritdhari does.

Take Amrit and no one will ask you why you're wearing a shaster! :)

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Take Amrit

I Wish! :waheguru:

I just think i'm not that rehearsed in Rehat. :L:

So... Can I be Shasterdhari without Amritdhari? :lol:

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You can carry shastar, but you'll be like the brahmins that wear the sacred thread around their necks as a sign of high spirituality, but inside they are empty.

Read Mehtab Singh's post.

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You can carry shastar, but you'll be like the brahmins that wear the sacred thread around their necks as a sign of high spirituality, but inside they are empty.

Read Mehtab Singh's post.

but aren't all Kakkars equal? :BL:

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Has any one ever used their shaster here to protect themselves or someone else?

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but aren't all Kakkars equal? :BL:

Sure they are and some have more responsibility than others. Carrying the Kirpan has a higher responsibility. People that are wanting to take Amrit should be taking up the five kakkar before they take Amrit. The five kakkar are about taking the grace of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj. You can wear, keep whatever kakkar you want without Guru Sahib's grace, but the person is still hollow. The grace comes first then the Kakkar.

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having to take amrit before wearing shashtar is an old wives tale. Guru Ji does not limit self-defence or defence of weaker people, only to those who have taken amrit. Think about it.

Pir Buddhu Shah was not amritdhari, but was shastardhari, as well as his 500 mureeds. The Udasi SAnt who fought in Bhangani was not amritdhari, but was shastardhari.

At the time of 6th Guru, no-one took Khande ki pahul, but the AKal sena were shastardhari.

Too much superstition and Brahman thinking in Panth at this time.

and Guru Ji also tells us, :

Bina Kes Shastarnan na diya deedare...

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having to take amrit before wearing shashtar is an old wives tale. Guru Ji does not limit self-defence or defence of weaker people, only to those who have taken amrit. Think about it.

Pir Buddhu Shah was not amritdhari, but was shastardhari, as well as his 500 mureeds. The Udasi SAnt who fought in Bhangani was not amritdhari, but was shastardhari.

At the time of 6th Guru, no-one took Khande ki pahul, but the AKal sena were shastardhari.

Too much superstition and Brahman thinking in Panth at this time.

and Guru Ji also tells us, :

Bina Kes Shastarnan na diya deedare...

If you read the post carefully then Mehtab Singh and I have stated to the origional poster you can wear shastar without Amrit, but The Gurus Grace is the most important part. Gurbani says this over and over. And bringing up incidents when Khande da Amrit was not introduced is shooting in the dark. So those points are irrevelant. If you want to speak in those terms then why even believe in miri and piri when it was not introduced by Satguru Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji Maharaj.

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having to take amrit before wearing shashtar is an old wives tale. Guru Ji does not limit self-defence or defence of weaker people, only to those who have taken amrit. Think about it.

Pir Buddhu Shah was not amritdhari, but was shastardhari, as well as his 500 mureeds. The Udasi SAnt who fought in Bhangani was not amritdhari, but was shastardhari.

At the time of 6th Guru, no-one took Khande ki pahul, but the AKal sena were shastardhari.

Too much superstition and Brahman thinking in Panth at this time.

and Guru Ji also tells us, :

Bina Kes Shastarnan na diya deedare...

I clearly said, no one is going to sue you if you wear a shastar and haven't taken Amrit. Its the responsibility that varies. A non-Amritdhari will not hesitate to remove his/her shastar for whatever reason, an Amritdhari will NEVER remove it, unless ofcourse its the unfortunate removal while boarding an airplane, after which an Amritdhari would do Ardas and put it back on. Some GurSikhs don't consume anything as long as there is no kirpan on them during their flight. Yes your examples are valid, but remember those were times of war when both Amritdharis and non-Amritdharis were fighting against a tyrant regime. Sant Jarnail Singh Jee Khalsa Bhindranwale also asked all Sikhs to have weapons to protect themselves from a tyrant regime. We are talking about 2 different scenarios.

I am not sure which country you are from. If you are a non-Amritdhari in a western country which respects Sikhs, please feel free to carry an AK-47 next time you go to purchase groceries. It will become very clear who is a Brahman and who isn't :)

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Before the onset of the modern world i.e. post WW2 - it was common for people of all cultures to be armed to one extent or another. In many cultures this is still the case - but mostly in old world cultures or rural areas - be it Europe, Middle East, Nepal, Indonesia etc etc.

Even in the US one has a right to carry arms dependant on the state laws etc.

In the UK however, only 'amritdhari' Sikhs have the right to carry 'blades' in the form of the kirpan etc.

If you want to be armed - there are many legal ways of doing that. If you want to be armed with kakaar i.e. kara/kirpan - then it is a matter of your consiousness - as these are gifts from Dasam Patshah to his Singh Khalsa.

If you are worried about being attacked etc, then in all honesty - kakaars are not your saviour (although nothing would make me happier to see another Singh take Khande de Pahul).

Real defence comes from knowledge - vidya - of fighting. The real weapon is therefore you. Shastar are just an extension of our limbs.

For a Singh - the association with Shastar is more complex and deep - as all Singhs are "supposed" to have vidya of yudh. Sadly today we have a whole generation of youths who have no idea about Khalsa Dharma - and those that look the part, seldom have any realistic/usable knowledge of being able to use their kara or kirpan (or themselves for that matter) in a fight/weapons/multiple situation. Sadly, in most cases - their kara and kirpan are simply cheaply bought, low quality symbols rather than expensive/quality/usable shastar. Then we have a new growing generation of antique collectors - who likewise a simply creating mini museums - but do not invest time, money or dedication in learning real combat and therefore being able to use their collectables.

If you want to defend yourself - learn a real combat art which uses simple, efficient, devastating movements - which can be transposed from any inanimate object to open hands. That way you will be a formidable/deadly opponent for anyone - even armed with a ball point pen or credit card.

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So those points are irrevelant.

Yes your examples are valid...

Nothing like conformity in the Panth is there?

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Nothing like conformity in the Panth is there?

You need to read more carefully Singh. Look at what is being called irrevelant and why. Unity is there, but you cant see it. Your Brahman comment is being called irrevelant and dont you see how you thought like a brahman in your own post.

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My mamaji asked a Nihung Singh who showed us his collection of antique shaster, he also made shaster. His reply was simple, he said even if you haven't taken amrit, you can still be shastertari. If you can't protect someone else, you can at least protect yourself.

Either way, our goal is to take Amrit and adopt a GurSikhi life...Can we just agree there.

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Well in my opinion, being shastardhari involves knowing how to use the weapons efficienntly in battle, which only comes through immense training, rather than just wearing them.

For answering your question, yes, anyone can be shastarsdhari, anyone can carry them, but a gursikh takes it one step further. He/she is a sant-sipahi, with b ot miri and piri, not just the shastar.

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Well in my opinion, being shastardhari involves knowing how to use the weapons efficienntly in battle, which only comes through immense training, rather than just wearing them.

For answering your question, yes, anyone can be shastarsdhari, anyone can carry them, but a gursikh takes it one step further. He/she is a sant-sipahi, with b ot miri and piri, not just the shastar.

Being AMritdhari will put your mind into an advantageous position as you will have mental discipline over your five chor which can tip you over in battle to being reckless and therefore dangerous to yourself . Being a shasterdhari surely means being the best warrior you can be ...and I believe that history has shown that having amrit is an definite plus.

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