Beadbi At Ramgarhia Gurdwara, Graham Street, Birmingham

[MentalSingh]

Excuses, excuses, excuses. My children don't even make as many as you do Sikhpaji. Get to the topic. Yes education must start at home but the Gurdwara also has to play an important part of that education. If your family are not on the right path and the Gurdwara is not then what chance have we got?

All Gurdwara need to provide a environment that reflects sikhi in the highest order. It needs to be a place of purity. Get your own house (Gurdwara) in order first before you can start preaching sikhi to the masses. How many amritari Sikhs have been blessed at RST? You talk about others but you cannot even get your own house in order first.

Think what you are doing now as your actions today will create deep problems tomorrow for the sangat. Dont play the excuse game. You know it's wrong and yet you still need to justify it to yourself. You are probably a meat and & sharab drinker yourself and are probably druelling over a Xmas turkey with a glass of wine with the family. Wake up cos when when the true Khalsa come for you, you will be swept away with firm

[Only five]

Malkeet Singh Ji, apparently the Akal Takht had a meeting which lasted three days to clarify eating meat amongst sikhs where all the senior scholars were asked to give a verdict, after the three days they could not decide whether meat is prohibited in sikhism or not. Inderjit Singh Khalsa, Hazoori Ragi Jatha were part of the meeting and advised of this and we have written to the Akal Takht asking them for clarification and till today there has been no response.

Read the Sandesh on Gurdwaras and having meat and alcohol in them or any building owned by the Gurdwara or run by a Gurdwara. Meat and alcohol are not allowed. And if you have a problem with the Nihang Singhs and want to use them as a excuse, first go an protest at Sri Hazur Sahib and see what response you get.

Secondly you mention 25 million members, its ashame that the majority of them even some of those who are Amrit Dhari get thier children married in front of the Gurur Granth Sahib and tell the Gurdwara not to do speeches as they have paid £50000 for a lunch venue where there is meat, drinking and dancing and thier son's take thier pagh off, have a shave, drink and eat meat.

How can a person be Amritdhari when he shaves. Your confusing punjabis with Amritdharis. This tells us, you know very little about Sikhs.

Are these the 25 millions you are talking about ? Education for this must start at home. Don't blame the gurdwara instituions where a lot of people do give thier time and effort. I have heard people complain that the Gurdwara Sahib charge £250.00 for conducting the complete wedding ceremony inlcuding hire for tea an milni's whereas these same Amrit Dhari's have no issue to fulfill thier childrens pleasure and spend thousands on meat and drinks outrside.

What an individual does is not a reflection on Sikhi. But what a Gurdwara does is a clear representation of Sikhi. This kind of thinking probably works in your sharabi circles, but not here.

The Gurdwara as I have heard before promotes ni meat and alchol by giving the hall free if there will be vegetarian dinner without drinks and dancing but only 2 families in the last year have accepted this.

I am not condoning anyone's actions but when people tell me of a Sandesh to be implemented and the indivduals who attempt to implement this attend wedding of close family where they have meat and drinks I feel it hypocritical.

This has nothing to do with Gurdwaras running halls with meat and alcohol. You really are trying hard to defend your friends alcohol and meat, but it don't work. If you want them to change they change yourself. But your using it as a way to get your meat and alcohol halls up and running under Gurdwaras. This shows what your up too.

And Mental Singh, why dont you get an upto date original verdict from the Akal Takht on thier views and publish it, as your arguments continue about the Sandesh from them. I am still awaiting a reply as are other Gurdwara and we have spoken to them but we have not had anything in writing. I look forward to seeing an upto mandate from them.

Gurmat doesn't allow alcohol and meat in Gurdwaras. The Sandesh reinforces Gurmat.

[Balait_da_Sher]

I really think that Mental Singh is bitter and from an opposition party at the gurdwara the way he is speaking. So sad talking about beadbi when £88k of the sangats money is missing from the car park income, .................................

If anyone is diverting attention from the real issue's affecting Sikhism it is you Mental Singh, come forward with your real name if you are a Guru Ji Ka Sikh. If you do not have the guts then delete your profile from this forum. Sikhs do not need stirrers in thier community.

WJKK WJKF

sikhpaji, so sangat should not discuss beadbi because 88k has gone missing from car park's income? Is that the going rate for respect of guruji?

Mental Singh Ji, glad i struck a nerve like you did with Pyara Singh Bhogal and you were proud of it, Satkaar Sewadaars do not havce a fixed address or telephone number so why are they representing the UK Sangat, how many members are there of the UK Sangat that they represent ? There are over 4000 members at the gurdwara in Birmingham alone, so if all the 15 instituions get together there will be approx 20000 members how many of these are represented against Satkaar Sewadars. We need to talk to recognised bodies nbot an email address and a mobile phone number.

I am sure there were were hundreds of thousand followers of the Guru Gobind Singh ji at Anandpur sahib but only 5 stood up. So whether it is one or one hundred thousand Sikhs who raise their voice against beadbi, they need our support.

Finally,I cannot believe that this topic/issue has been discussed so much. How stupid are we that we cannot understand that any thing purchased with sangat's money should not be used for any activity that is contrary to the beliefs of Sikhi.

[Aman0001]

I cant believe this Sikhpaji guy is defending beadbi with these pathetic excuses, where do these people come from.

[Charan Singh]

The attitude of sikhpaji is disgraceful & shameful.

With all due respect I think satkaar are being to polite to this committee, they clearly have no respect for sikh principles and gurmat. It's time to communicate our outrage at the committee of ramgharia sikh temple. Why not just organise a protest these comming weekends to communicate how offended and upset sikhs around the country are.

Sangat jeo, just organise a protest, we'll all be there.....

[GurSa Singh]

Sangat ji,

I came accross this shabad today. It felt relevant to this thread after reading the attitude seen above by people like sikhpaji and the committee of RST. This Shabad is by Guru Angad Dev Ji Maharaj in Raag Malaar on ang 1288

salok ma 2 ||

Salok, Second Mehla:

naao fakeerai paathisaahu moorakh pa(n)ddith naao ||

The beggar is known as an emperor, and the fool is known as a religious scholar.

a(n)dhhae kaa naao paarakhoo eaevai karae guaao ||

The blind man is known as a seer; this is how people talk.

eilath kaa naao choudhharee koorree poorae thhaao ||

The trouble-maker is called a leader, and the liar is seated with honor.

naanak guramukh jaaneeai kal kaa eaehu niaao ||1||

O Nanak, the Gurmukhs know that this is justice in the Dark Age of Kali Yuga. ||1||

[Bir_Rass]

oh my guru jee, all for £700 they are willing to spit on what guru gobind singh said to us it makes my blood boil we have to stop this or we are not sikh's of the guru...

fateh

[Aman0001]

I agree with Charan Singh, organise a demonstration and we'll all be there......

[K Singh 82]

I agree with Charan Singh, organise a demonstration and we'll all be there......

i too agree with you both...its been weeks now and its become beyond a joke - the committee are clearly making a mockery of Sikhi!

We need to organise a protest!

[khalistan_zindabaad]

It seems the commitee or members of the gurdwara sahib community are trying every trick they have to move the attention of the sangat away from the current issue, wether they say about jathka, wether about caste or other issues.

If we forget the meat issue just for a second - just for the sake of controversy, then the bigger issue is alcohol - that isnt a controversy that the panth has not decided over - its a clear no. So wether you serve meat or not, alcohol is a definate NO, likewise meat, bangra, dirty songs, half dressed women/men etc all that happens at the premises is all against gurmat.

Please lets not debate over this - its clear and simple - its WRONG - we dont need to debate.

If your not cussing mental singh, then its the validity of satkaar campaign, if its not that then you bring caste into it, if that gets resolved then its akaal takht havnt decided on meat, etc etc the tactics are good - but im afraid are pathetic.

Sorry if i have offended anyone, just raising some concerns over the length and indepth arguments which have no validity.