No Amrittharis Being Called Khalsa?

[Son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji]

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

I had this discussion with my veer using private messages and because of the flow of discussion, I thought it would be good for the forum if we just have this discussion in public. It would give others the chance to put in their views aswell. I hope to learn from all of you regarding this 'issue'.

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

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Author: Son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

Veer ji, this is the third time you have addressed Bhai Udham Singh Ji and Bhai Udham Singh Ji Khalsa. Please understand that ONLY Punj Pyare of Guru Sahib can give the title of Khalsa to a person. And sad for us and Bhai Sahib himself, he didn't NOT go to Guru Sahib to take Khanda-baate-ki-pahul. I'm pretty sure if Bhai Sahib had a chance he surely would have gone to Punj Pyare to take amrit, as he changed his life immensly in jail. But please understand, calling a non-amritthari with the title Khalsa is not right. I'm not saying Bhai Sahib wasn't a good person. So do not take me wrong.

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

Author: GABROO KHALISTAN DAH

i know what ur saying, but look at BHAI SUKHA AND JINDA SINGH JI KHALSA, we alla dress they as pooran parsaye khalsaye rite?

they where also without amrit.

bhai udam singh ji did'nt change in jail, he just fell into bana in jail, bani wuz always iwth him

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Author: Son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji

Bhai Sukha and Jinda's last wish was that they be allowed to take Guru Sahib's amrit but sadly they wren't allowed to do so. Just wearing baana doesn't not make anyone Khalsa, it's the amrit of Guru that does. And if u think these ppl already had amrit, they did they dream up taking khanda baate ki pahul?

We not not in the position of bestowing the title Khalsa to anyone. ONLY Punj Pyare can do that. So please understand the status of Punj Pyare and do not challange them. I hope u understand. Thanks

Author: GABROO KHALISTAN DAH

bhai uduam singh ji had the same position, its just that the truth about him as been twisted for yrs at the hands of hindians.

bro i'ld never dare challenge the panj pyaare, but i ca conflict in accordance with other mahan shaheed sikhs here

another example would be bai dilawar singh ji khalsa, not amritdhari, but keshadhari who did his action

Author: Son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji

Guru Gobind Singh Ji said: Khalsa meroo satgur poora

So you are saying that non amrittharis can be called Satgurus?

What's so hard about this to understand?

Just want to clarify, are you amritthari urself?

Author: GABROO KHALISTAN DAH

no i'm not i've clarified i'm a non-sikh so many times

so now we get to the point of whats so hard 2 understand..........

sorry it is.... i'm asking u to look at the shaheeeds of khalistan u think they dont' deserve the rite of khalsa?

they gave more then ne one....they gave their heads....automatically becoming a khalsa.......

plus its propoganda get used to it

[Son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji]

for everything Bhai Sukha and Jinda did I think Guru Sahib will give them another chance to take amrit. And if I am not mistaken, they also did ardas to Guru Sahib to bless them with Amrit the 'next time'.

And why should be get used to the 'propaganda'? And which one are you talking about?

[Guest SikhForLife]

o guru pyareo..

khalsa is a state .. we cant judge who is a khalsa and who is not by their actions..

only vaheguru really knows..

so stop judging.. they gave their life.., thats it.. end it there.. period.. who is khalsa who is not.. i say we shouldnt call anyone khalsa.. (the purest one).. let God be the judge..

no real khalsa calls himself a khalsa.. then why should we call them?

[Son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji]

no real khalsa calls himself a khalsa.. then why should we call them?

that's not really the point, according to Rehitnaame no one should even call himself Bhai, so according to what to you said, calling anyone Bhai would be considered wrong too.

in Sikhi, Khalsa is one who has taken Khanda baate ka Amrit. So there is nothing wrong is addressing Amrittharis Khalsas.

let God be the judge..

Totally agree with that. Let ONLY GOd judge which non-amritthari is Khalis!

we cant judge who is a khalsa and who is not by their actions..

so stop judging.. they gave their life.., thats it.. end it there.. period..

errr... a

bit of contradition there!

[me moorakh mugadh]

o guru pyareo..

khalsa is a state .. we cant judge who is a khalsa and who is not by their actions..

only vaheguru really knows..

so stop judging.. they gave their life.., thats it.. end it there.. period.. who is khalsa who is not.. i say we shouldnt call anyone khalsa.. (the purest one).. let God be the judge..

no real khalsa calls himself a khalsa.. then why should we call them?

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

agreed khalsa means pure a non amritdhari or a person who is not a sikh ,but both have good deeds and they live their life purely are khalsas but it would be much better if they both become guru walla so that they can become more good and leed their life according to guru wich they both belive, my 2 percent bhul chuk maaf :D )

[S1ngh]

Those who gave away their life for freedom.. They did it for their Community. It's not necessary that they HAVE to be religious quality..

Udham singh.. i don't know what he did.. but i respect him whatever he did jee.. But if he wasn't a propa sikh just like Bhagat singh, then why force to name him as a propa sikh.. .. Yes they fought good and Did brillant that not common person can or have guts to do.. but they don't have to be named as khalsa or good religious person.. It's really rare for a person to have all qualities..

Sorry for going off topic.. but this is what i think.. just 2 cent of my stupid brain.. B)

[Akaali]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa

Waheguru ji ki fateh

Pyari Sat Sangat ji,

I agree with all of your views. There are two sides to this discussion as well. Sukh & Jinda didn't take amrit, which doesn't make them a Khalsa (the pure one). Remember, Our father Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji said: "Rainhi rahey soi sikh mera", Now, I'm a moorakh and don't know much about the lives of Sukha & Jinda, but if they didn't do their nitnem, worship the almighty, or even didn't keep their panj kakaarz they're not part of Khalsa. Another thing, Waheguru had a plan for those Gursikhs, which was to lay their lives down for the panth which they did, with true beleifs.

Now speaking about being Khalsa...Khalsa is a form of itself. A chinese guy who has no knowledge of Sikhi can also be a Khalsa. Khalsa means 'pure'...God is 'pure', Guru is 'pure' so if one is pure, then why does it really matter?

Remember Guru pyareo, Guru Gobind Singh ji maharaj, raised his Khalsa to the status of the Guru, since he, himself took amrit from the panj pyaray....this is an example itself of how important it is to take amrit from the panj pyaray...Bhul chuk maaf!

My two cents... :St:

Waheguru ji ka khalsa

Waheguru ji ki fateh

[rjp_kaur]

waheguru ji ka khalsa,

waheguru ji ki fateh ji

i think some1 who doesnt take amrit and dies for dharm and desh is called "surma" <<<<is right expression

and some1 who has taken amrit and is in rehat and is a "pooran gursikh" is called "Khalsa"

if i said anything wrong<<<< maaf karna ji

tuhadi nimaani jahi sis

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fatehji

[Guest SikhForLife]

heres my two cents on the definition of Surma

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=3968

the translation is a little off in my opinion!

gagan dhamaamaa baajiou pariou neesaanai ghaao ||

khaeth j maa(n)ddiou sooramaa ab joojhan ko dhaao ||1||

sooraa so pehichaaneeai j larai dheen kae haeth ||

purajaa purajaa katt marai kabehoo n shhaaddai khaeth ||2||2||

its talking about physical and MENTAL battlefield

our mind in itself is a big battle zone.. we have to fight all the evil things// he is a surma who fights these evil vices and never leaves or surrenders..

so either way.. it gives a clear definition of surma

vjkk vjkf

[GABROO KHALISTAN DAH]

the reasons for the 2 parties not taking amrit wuz a reason out of their hands, in jail bouth wehre denied the holly nectar.

Now i fail to understand how can some1 c them as non-sikhs, non-khalsa's, when they did what they did, and yerned what they yerned (amrit).