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Incentive To Be Religious?


Guest C0nfus3d
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Guest C0nfus3d

Gurfateh all,

I am lost, so I turn to the sangat and ask for help. I have a few questions raising in my mind... I hope you can assist.

I have been actively trying to settle my mind on why one must be religious and follow the path to the one true creator. Amidst this, I started thinking what is the incentive to be religious? This lead me to contemplate the wonders of akalpurakh and creation itself. Obviously it is not my place to comprehend the ways of akalpurakh but I am usually able to satisfy my curiosity. As far as I know, in the beginning only the primodial void existed and then at the will of the akalpurakh the universe was created. Similarly, with his will everything will immerse into the void again. I then thought:

-what's the point of being religious or not religious in that case? If our soul is the essence of the almighty himself then it will be absorbed into the almighty, irrespective of whether we are good or evil....?

If existence is ceased then the light of god will re-immerse within him. Why? because our souls are (as far as I know and have read / been told) a part of god, ageless and pure. However, I am further astounded by this.... If our souls are a part of (or the essence of) the almighty - then that means they are totally pure, uncorrupted and unchangeable... so we must assume that the soul or light of god CANNOT be altered or influenced by any maya.

- if this is the case, what gives us our nature? - I have assumed our true identity is within our soul - but the more I think about it, It can't be - the soul must surely be a generic vessel there must be another 'layer' on top which defines an entity.

- when we cross over into reincarnation - this must mean that I (the entity) must cross over as well as the soul? - how else would the concept of reincarnation and karma function?

I am well and truly confused and looking to re-affirm my faith. I look forward to your replies, but please, if you do not understand the questions, please do not slander or post useless comments as that will not really help me or anyone else in my situation. All I would like to find is an answer which helps me to retain my faith in sikhi and keep to my rehat.

Gurfateh!

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I would have answered this question, but then I read the last line,

"All I would like to find is an answer which helps me to retain my faith in sikhi and keep to my rehat."

A true Sikh could be in a state of mind where he does not understand anything and still will have full faith in Sikhi. So it sounds like your on a mission to destroy others faith in Sikhi. You forgot one part, of God, which is he can destroy whatever he creates. So if you want to be unfaithful and not follow your rehat then you will be destroyed.

If existence is ceased then the light of god will re-immerse within him.

Where has God gone where the light will re-immerse within him? God is right here, it's your mind that does not allow you to see him. You write with the conclusion that God is far away and the light is somewhere here, near to you and far from God. The light is already in the Lord and the Lord is in the light, there is no need to re-immerse with him. The Lord is in the human and the human is in the Lord. IF the Lord was not in the light then the light does not exist, so there is no re-immersing happening at all. Develop the eyes to see God and you'll see him as only one.

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Guest C0nfus3d

I would have answered this question, but then I read the last line.

A true Sikh could be in a state of mind where he does not understand anything and still will have full faith in Sikhi. So it sounds like your on a mission to destroy others faith in Sikhi. You forgot one part, of God, which is he can destroy whatever he creates. So if you want to be unfaithful and not follow your rehat then you will be destroyed.

Veer ji,

I thank you greatly for your response.. but I do not understand why you would interpret my limbo spiritual state as a "mission of destroy others faith!!" As you know spirituality and spiritual experiences are unique... I have NOT renounced sikhi, on the contrary I want to become a better sikh and attempt to become closer to my creator! so - I humble urge you veer-ji, if you can answer my questions with ease, please do so - it will assist me and god knows how many others that read these threads.

Where has God gone where the light will re-immerse within him? God is right here, it's your mind that does not allow you to see him. You write with the conclusion that God is far away and the light is somewhere here, near to you and far from God. The light is already in the Lord and the Lord is in the light, there is no need to re-immerse with him. The Lord is in the human and the human is in the Lord. IF the Lord was not in the light then the light does not exist, so there is no re-immersing happening at all. Develop the eyes to see God and you'll see him as only one.

Thank you for this part of your answer, I understand what you are trying to say - but I was getting at the "planes/dimensions of existence" which is pretty much the same thing as you saying god is here but you cannot experience him! EG: as it stands we exist on two or more planes - soul + body, as spiritual people we try to "see" or access the planes of spiritual awareness. (eg, through meditation and naam simran one can open their chakra's and attune one to leave their sookham body at will..) Perhaps I was not clear about the context in which I posed my earlier statement. When existence or creation ceases, we will no longer exist on multiple planes... Gurbani states everything will re-immerse into the primordial void from which it emerged. I hope this clears up exactly what I was asking.

The only reason I wrote the last line of the post is to avoid people giving misleading, useless and pointless answers - such as "you have to believe", "you're a heretic" etc.... but it seems by writing that I have caused you some offence and its had the exact opposite effect! Again I thank you for replying and look forward to your response.

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I think you've got some very valid questions, I have often thought of similar things in the past and would value gurmat based answers from some of the learned members on this forum.

I shall give my humble understanding with regards to your questions, but i truly hope others will expand on them.

"-what's the point of being religious or not religious in that case? If our soul is the essence of the almighty himself then it will be absorbed into the almighty, irrespective of whether we are good or evil....?"

We are all trapped in the eternal cycle of reincarnation. We are constantly dying and being reborn, only god knows how many times! This is clear from gurbani, and im sure you already know this. Gurbani does say that the whole creation is constantly being created and destroyed. We are trapped in this cycle also. Its only once we reach an avastha where we are truly one with vaheguruji that we leave this cycle, which is reiterated clearly in gurbani, as im sure your aware also?

It may seem a pretty sweet concept of getting another chance to live on this earth, i mean we have it pretty good in the western world. Id love to be alive 100years in the future, imagine how awesome the latest Playstation or wii would be in the future lol

But im sure that you have seen and experienced the ups and downs of life. Even with complete freedom to buy/do whatever you want in this world, you will never feel complete happiness and contentment within. I have come to realise this myself recently.

"If our souls are a part of (or the essence of) the almighty - then that means they are totally pure, uncorrupted and unchangeable... so we must assume that the soul or light of god CANNOT be altered or influenced by any maya"

Gurbani does say that god is within us all. The pureness of vaheguruji is somewhere deep within us all. however our ego and mind stop us from accessing this pureness. I guess we are like a rain drop which is polluted with the dirt or our past sins. vaheguru is the purest, cleanest ocean. We need to purify ourselves to become like the ocean and merge back with it.

I guess my understanding with regards to this is to appreciate that the soul and the body are two separate things? Its our human body, which contains many complex systems which are controlled by our brain and cns, which cause us to perceive maya as truth. And are responsible for our attachment, lust,ego,anger, greed etc Once we start living spiritually, we slowly become attuned to our soul...the pureness of vaheguru and with this we learn to condition and control our mind, and slowly lose our attachment to maya.

These are just my humble opinions, I am hardly a prime example of a sikh so i appologise if i am saying something which is untrue/disrespectful. I hope that you can understand some of the thoughts i am trying to express. I look forward to other members responses.

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Gurfateh all,

-what's the point of being religious or not religious in that case? If our soul is the essence of the almighty himself then it will be absorbed into the almighty, irrespective of whether we are good or evil....?

If existence is ceased then the light of god will re-immerse within him. Why? because our souls are (as far as I know and have read / been told) a part of god, ageless and pure.

This is what Guru Sahib says about the soul being pure or not?

This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Saarang on Pannaa 1224

swrg mhlw 5 ]

saarag mehalaa 5 ||

Saarang, Fifth Mehla:

mYlw hir ky nwm ibnu jIau ]

mailaa har kae naam bin jeeo ||

Without the Name of the Lord, the soul is polluted.

iqin pRiB swcY Awip BulwieAw ibKY TgaurI pIau ]1] rhwau ]

thin prabh saachai aap bhulaaeiaa bikhai t(h)agouree peeo ||1|| rehaao ||

The True Lord God has Himself administered the intoxicating drug of corruption, and led the mortal astray. ||1||Pause||

koit jnm BRmqO bhu BWqI iQiq nhI kqhU pweI ]

kott janam bhramatha bahu bhaa(n)thee thhith nehee kathehoo paaee ||

Wandering through millions of incarnations in countless ways, he does not find stability anywhere.

pUrw siqguru shij n ByitAw swkqu AwvY jweI ]1]

pooraa sathigur sehaj n bhaettiaa saakath aavai jaaee ||1||

The faithless cynic does not intuitively meet with the Perfect True Guru; he continues coming and going in reincarnation. ||1||

rwiK lyhu pRB sMimRQ dwqy qum pRB Agm Apwr ]

raakh laehu prabh sa(n)mrithh dhaathae thum prabh agam apaar ||

Please save me, O All-powerful Lord God, O Great Giver; O God, You are Inaccessible and Infinite.

nwnk dws qyrI srxweI Bvjlu auqirE pwr ]2]79]102]

naanak dhaas thaeree saranaaee bhavajal outhariou paar ||2||79||102||

Slave Nanak seeks Your Sanctuary, to cross over the terrible world-ocean, and reach the other shore. ||2||79||102||

Your whole post is based on the soul being pure and above Guru Sahib tells us the soul is polluted. Which means it is not pure because it is without the name of the Lord.

- if this is the case, what gives us our nature? - I have assumed our true identity is within our soul - but the more I think about it, It can't be - the soul must surely be a generic vessel there must be another 'layer' on top which defines an entity.

- when we cross over into reincarnation - this must mean that I (the entity) must cross over as well as the soul? - how else would the concept of reincarnation and karma function?

If the soul is pure as you say then why does the soul cross over to birth and death. A pure soul would be in Sachkand. Again you have based you reasoning on a false concept of the soul being pure, whether doing good or bad deeds.

What you have come up with is the way the Christians believe and Gurbani shows us the true state of the soul.

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Guest C0nfus3d

Gurfateh all,

OnlyFive Paaji, thanks for your wonderful post.

However, my question was:

why should one be religious if when creation ceases (IE, Janam maran, the world, the universe doesn't exist...) everything will either be destroyed or be absorbed back into nothingness/or the almighty.

This is my main question, the rest of the post is some of the offspun thoughts of my mind which arise from this central question - This is what I'm thinking about:

One's purpose is to try and strive to remember the almighty - the result of this is that you will attain a spiritual state in which you can escape reincarnation.. (whether you want to or not, because gurbani states one should do simran without any desire of mukhti)

The alternative is that you do NOT remember the almighty and are trapped within maya and continue in reincarnation till the end of time - janam maran for a person is over in an instant? because he or she does not actually remember what they have been through? Anyway - the end result is that when he wills his creation to cease you will either be destroyed and only he will remain or he will absorb his creation and again only he will remain.

I have not come up with Christian school of thought, because their beliefs do not make sense to me at all.. A dear, just, kind god will not condemn 60% of the world population to be damned FOREVER in hell just because they are not Christian, the same goes for Muslims. Christians also believe in original sin (a sinful soul that cannot be in the presence of god) which isn't what I'm getting at.

I look forward to your reply paaji, I thank you again for your time and wisdom.

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However, my question was:

why should one be religious if when creation ceases (IE, Janam maran, the world, the universe doesn't exist...) everything will either be destroyed or be absorbed back into nothingness/or the almighty.

This is my main question, the rest of the post is some of the offspun thoughts of my mind which arise from this central question

This is like asking- whats the point in living when we are going to die anyway so why do we bother with working, eating sleeping when none of it counts? The answer to this and your question put bluntly is that we have no choice. We have to live, we have to do good otherwise we are going to be going around in circles as energy keeps getting converted from one form to another.

Now your probably thinking yeah but all the souls become one big pool and yes its true that the world is destroyed. But its also re-created again. The process of that is not understood but once you are destroyed its not the end...the cycle still repeats itself as the world is re-created and that pool is sent to earth again....but there is an escape which does not involve this destroy world and re-create world.

So in this state of complete freeness you are not sent to live earth....now to free yourself completely you have to become a certain type of energy. Actually, I think its best if we imagine ourselves as energy. So in this life we are an energy. Energy is constantly changing. Some types of energy are destructive (lightening) whilst others are productive (heat). The next time you meet someone think what type of energy they are.

With Humans our thoughts, intentions, words and actions amongst other factors make us a certain type of energy and there is a level which is reached where the energy is able to escape completely. So the aim is to make yourself as good as that makes you a better energy type and even if you don't escape completely your still close enough to being free.

Its difficult for me to describe this fully but imagine if your thief who just cares about yourself. You become amazingly rich through exploitation. The world admires you but when you sleep in the night the subconsious reflects your true energy and it is this energy level which decides what happens next so there is no 'i will talk' my way out of it or one religion is better than another. Its all just down to you.

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Gurfateh all,

OnlyFive Paaji, thanks for your wonderful post.

However, my question was:

why should one be religious if when creation ceases (IE, Janam maran, the world, the universe doesn't exist...) everything will either be destroyed or be absorbed back into nothingness/or the almighty.

This is my main question, the rest of the post is some of the offspun thoughts of my mind which arise from this central question - This is what I'm thinking about:

This might be your main question, but the question is based on false knowledge. Like the soul being pure no matter what. Also in my first post I told you that things are also destroyed by Waheguru. Then I added those that don't want to follow satguru will see the end result of being destroyed. So some or majority don't get re-immersed with Waheguru. Also how can you re-immerse into the Lord when in the first place you were not immersed in the Lord. We surely came from the Lord, but that does not mean we are immersed into Waheguru. The more you write the clearer it becomes you don't real believe in Waheguru, but are a skeptic. A Sikh never writes nothingness/or the almighty becuase they know Waheguru does exist and there is no such thing as nothingness. So why be religious, one answer would be so you are not destroyed by Waheguru. Keeping in mind that being destroyed and re-immersing are two different things and not one and the same. When Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji came to this universe, he was one with Waheguru, though to mere mortals he was seen as separate. What I am saying is that you need to develop the eyes to see what is one with Waheguru and still has an identity as the one and what is separate, which will be destroyed at his will. If you come up with that re-immerse and destroyed are the same thing, then you are describing a limited God that can't destroy his own creation. Lastly coming from the Lord and immersing into Waheguru are not the same thing.

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Guest C0nfus3d

This might be your main question, but the question is based on false knowledge. Like the soul being pure no matter what. Also in my first post I told you that things are also destroyed by Waheguru. Then I added those that don't want to follow satguru will see the end result of being destroyed. So some or majority don't get re-immersed with Waheguru. Also how can you re-immerse into the Lord when in the first place you were not immersed in the Lord. We surely came from the Lord, but that does not mean we are immersed into Waheguru. The more you write the clearer it becomes you don't real believe in Waheguru, but are a skeptic. A Sikh never writes nothingness/or the almighty becuase they know Waheguru does exist and there is no such thing as nothingness. So why be religious, one answer would be so you are not destroyed by Waheguru. Keeping in mind that being destroyed and re-immersing are two different things and not one and the same. When Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji came to this universe, he was one with Waheguru, though to mere mortals he was seen as separate. What I am saying is that you need to develop the eyes to see what is one with Waheguru and still has an identity as the one and what is separate, which will be destroyed at his will. If you come up with that re-immerse and destroyed are the same thing, then you are describing a limited God that can't destroy his own creation. Lastly coming from the Lord and immersing into Waheguru are not the same thing.

Gurfateh All,

Dear Only Five, I thank you once again for your reply... I do not understand why you think I do not believe in waheguru and why you would try to brand me as a non sikh just because I have raised some questions? Tell me, when does a sikh stop learning? Since when does guru sahib forbid his sikhs to question? Please don't make such comments as they cause me pain - A sikh can't even ask a fellow sikh some questions without the fear of being branded a skeptic or non sikh?

Personally speaking, my spiritual life has been very cyclical - this is to say that I have high times when spiritually I feel empowered and the bond with waheguru is super strong, then there are other times when that bond is more distant - why? because I am a simple person, indulging in all the worldly tasks perhaps more then I should.. therefore when I resolve the queries that arise in my mind, it only strengthens my bond in sikhi! My way of thinking is: If I've asked the question - my guru has an answer - whether I can I see it my self is a different thing, sometimes it comes to me, sometimes it comes through another person or the sangat.

As for the concept of the "naad" or the "nothingness" or the "void" I have only learnt that from Gurbani. One such reference is: "Arbad, narbad dhundoo kaaraa, dharn na gugana hukum apaaraa" ang 1035. This means for countless ages there was utter darkness (nothingness), no heaven or earth. The will of Akaal reigned everywhere. No day no night, no sun, no moon. Only Akaal stayed in solitary meditation. Therefore AFAIK, akaalpurakh emerged from the nothingness himself.... this is the state things will go back to when he wills it.

However, I do like the second part of your answer and it makes sense so I thank you for that. Despite this, the basic question of would anything DIFFERENT happen to a no spiritual soul/entity at the end of creation? still stands though.. perhaps I have phrased it incorrectly but it has nothing to do with pure/impure state. I look forward to your reply.

PS: Dear malkeet paaji, Thank you for your reply.. it was inspiring.

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Gurfateh All,

Dear Only Five, I thank you once again for your reply... I do not understand why you think I do not believe in waheguru and why you would try to brand me as a non sikh just because I have raised some questions? Tell me, when does a sikh stop learning? Since when does guru sahib forbid his sikhs to question? Please don't make such comments as they cause me pain - A sikh can't even ask a fellow sikh some questions without the fear of being branded a skeptic or non sikh?

I already explained why your a skeptic and not a Sikh, but here again I'll show you. This is what you said word for word

why should one be religious if when creation ceases (IE, Janam maran, the world, the universe doesn't exist...) everything will either be destroyed or be absorbed back into nothingness/or the almighty.

Like I said before a Sikh knows only Waheguru exist. But for you the skeptic who does not know, like you write above 'nothingness/or the almighty'. When this is written it clearly shows you don't believe in Waheguru because you believe either everything goes back to nothingness/or Waheguru. Then further to show you are the skeptic this is what you write in this post. Here it is word for word coming from you.

Therefore AFAIK, akaalpurakh emerged from the nothingness himself.... this is the state things will go back to when he wills it.

As you say Akaal Purakh emerged from the nothingness. You believe nothingness is higher than Akaal Purakh(before you wrote nothingness is equal to Akaal Purakh). This clearly shows you don't understand mool mantar or purposely avoid Mool Mantar to push your own agenda here. As it say in Mool Mantar Akaal Purakh is self existent. Waheguru did not come from or emerge from anything. Even the tuk you present of a shabad does not say Akaal Purakh emerged from nothingness. Although it is a long shabad I am going to place it here, so the rest can learn from your mistakes. <BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break">

mwrU mhlw 1 ] (1035-9)

maaroo mehlaa 1.

Maaroo, First Mehl:

Arbd nrbd DuMDUkwrw ] (1035-9, mwrU, mÚ 1)

arbad narbad DhunDhookaaraa.

For endless eons, there was only utter darkness.

Drix n ggnw hukmu Apwrw ] (1035-10, mwrU, mÚ 1)

Dharan na gagnaa hukam apaaraa.

There was no earth or sky; there was only the infinite Command of His Hukam.

nw idnu rYin n cMdu n sUrju suMn smwiD lgwiedw ]1] (1035-10, mwrU, mÚ 1)

naa din rain na chand na sooraj sunn samaaDh lagaa-idaa. ||1||

There was no day or night, no moon or sun; God sat in primal, profound Samaadhi. ||1||

KwxI n bwxI paux n pwxI ] (1035-11, mwrU, mÚ 1)

khaanee na banee pa-un na paanee.

There were no sources of creation or powers of speech, no air or water.

Epiq Kpiq n Awvx jwxI ] (1035-11, mwrU, mÚ 1)

opat khapat na aavan jaanee.

There was no creation or destruction, no coming or going.

KMf pqwl spq nhI swgr ndI n nIru vhwiedw ]2] (1035-11, mwrU, mÚ 1)

khand pataal sapat nahee saagar nadee na neer vahaa-idaa. ||2||

There were no continents, nether regions, seven seas, rivers or flowing water. ||2||

nw qid surgu mCu pieAwlw ] (1035-12, mwrU, mÚ 1)

naa tad surag machh pa-i-aalaa.

There were no heavenly realms, earth or nether regions of the underworld.

dojku iBsqu nhI KY kwlw ] (1035-12, mwrU, mÚ 1)

dojak bhisat nahee khai kaalaa.

There was no heaven or hell, no death or time.

nrku surgu nhI jMmxu mrxw nw ko Awie n jwiedw ]3] (1035-12, mwrU, mÚ 1)

narak surag nahee jaman marnaa naa ko aa-ay na jaa-idaa. ||3||

There was no hell or heaven, no birth or death, no coming or going in reincarnation. ||3||

bRhmw ibsnu mhysu n koeI ] (1035-13, mwrU, mÚ 1)

barahmaa bisan mahays na ko-ee.

There was no Brahma, Vishnu or Shiva.

Avru n dIsY eyko soeI ] (1035-13, mwrU, mÚ 1)

avar na deesai ayko so-ee.

No one was seen, except the One Lord.

nwir purKu nhI jwiq n jnmw nw ko duKu suKu pwiedw ]4] (1035-14, mwrU, mÚ 1)

naar purakh nahee jaat na janmaa naa ko dukh sukh paa-idaa. ||4||

There was no female or male, no social class or caste of birth; no one experienced pain or pleasure. ||4||

nw qid jqI sqI bnvwsI ] (1035-14, mwrU, mÚ 1)

naa tad jatee satee banvaasee.

There were no people of celibacy or charity; no one lived in the forests.

nw qid isD swiDk suKvwsI ] (1035-15, mwrU, mÚ 1)

naa tad siDh saaDhik sukhvaasee.

There were no Siddhas or seekers, no one living in peace.

jogI jMgm ByKu n koeI nw ko nwQu khwiedw ]5] (1035-15, mwrU, mÚ 1)

jogee jangam bhaykh na ko-ee naa ko naath kahaa-idaa. ||5||

There were no Yogis, no wandering pilgrims, no religious robes; no one called himself the master. ||5||

jp qp sMjm nw bRq pUjw ] (1035-15, mwrU, mÚ 1)

jap tap sanjam naa barat poojaa.

There was no chanting or meditation, no self-discipline, fasting or worship.

nw ko AwiK vKwxY dUjw ] (1035-16, mwrU, mÚ 1)

naa ko aakh vakhaanai doojaa.

No one spoke or talked in duality.

Awpy Awip aupwie ivgsY Awpy kImiq pwiedw ]6] (1035-16, mwrU, mÚ 1)

aapay aap upaa-ay vigsai aapay keemat paa-idaa. ||6||

He created Himself, and rejoiced; He evaluates Himself. ||6||

(Guru Sahib is speaking about Waheguru here and Waheguru created himself, which means he did not emerge from nothinginess.)

nw suic sMjmu qulsI mwlw ] (1035-16, mwrU, mÚ 1)

naa such sanjam tulsee maalaa.

There was no purification, no self-restraint, no malas of basil seeds.

gopI kwnu n gaU guoAwlw ] (1035-17, mwrU, mÚ 1)

gopee kaan na ga-oo go-aalaa.

There were no Gopis, no Krishna, no cows or cowherds.

qMqu mMqu pwKMfu n koeI nw ko vMsu vjwiedw ]7] (1035-17, mwrU, mÚ 1)

tant mant pakhand na ko-ee naa ko vans vajaa-idaa. ||7||

There were no tantras, no mantras and no hypocrisy; no one played the flute. ||7||

krm Drm nhI mwieAw mwKI ] (1035-18, mwrU, mÚ 1)

karam Dharam nahee maa-i-aa maakhee.

There was no karma, no Dharma, no buzzing fly of Maya.

jwiq jnmu nhI dIsY AwKI ] (1035-18, mwrU, mÚ 1)

jaat janam nahee deesai aakhee.

Social class and birth were not seen with any eyes.

mmqw jwlu kwlu nhI mwQY nw ko iksY iDAwiedw ]8] (1035-18, mwrU, mÚ 1)

mamtaa jaal kaal nahee maathai naa ko kisai Dhi-aa-idaa. ||8||

There was no noose of attachment, no death inscribed upon the forehead; no one meditated on anything. ||8||

inMdu ibMdu nhI jIau n ijMdo ] (1035-19, mwrU, mÚ 1)

nind bind nahee jee-o na jindo.

There was no slander, no seed, no soul and no life.

nw qid gorKu nw mwiCMdo ] (1035-19, mwrU, mÚ 1)

naa tad gorakh naa maachhindo.

There was no Gorakh and no Maachhindra.

nw qid igAwnu iDAwnu kul Epiq nw ko gxq gxwiedw ]9] (1035-19, mwrU, mÚ 1)

naa tad gi-aan Dhi-aan kul opat naa ko ganat ganaa-idaa. ||9||

There was no spiritual wisdom or meditation, no ancestry or creation, no reckoning of accounts. ||9||

vrn ByK nhI bRhmx KqRI ] (1036-1, mwrU, mÚ 1)

varan bhaykh nahee barahman khatree.

There were no castes or social classes, no religious robes, no Brahmin or Kh'shaatriya.

dyau n dyhurw gaU gwieqRI ] (1036-1, mwrU, mÚ 1)

day-o na dayhuraa ga-oo gaa-itaree.

There were no demi-gods or temples, no cows or Gaayatri prayer.

hom jg nhI qIriQ nwvxu nw ko pUjw lwiedw ]10] (1036-2, mwrU, mÚ 1)

hom jag nahee tirath naavan naa ko poojaa laa-idaa. ||10||

There were no burnt offerings, no ceremonial feasts, no cleansing rituals at sacred shrines of pilgrimage; no one worshipped in adoration. ||10||

nw ko mulw nw ko kwjI ] (1036-2, mwrU, mÚ 1)

naa ko mulaa naa ko kaajee.

There was no Mullah, there was no Qazi.

nw ko syKu mswieku hwjI ] (1036-3, mwrU, mÚ 1)

naa ko saykh masaa-ik haajee.

There was no Shaykh, or pilgrims to Mecca.

reIAiq rwau n haumY dunIAw nw ko khxu khwiedw ]11] (1036-3, mwrU, mÚ 1)

ra-ee-at raa-o na ha-umai dunee-aa naa ko kahan kahaa-idaa. ||11||

There was no king or subjects, and no worldly egotism; no one spoke of himself. ||11||

Bwau n BgqI nw isv skqI ] (1036-4, mwrU, mÚ 1)

bhaa-o na bhagtee naa siv saktee.

There was no love or devotion, no Shiva or Shakti - no energy or matter.

swjnu mIqu ibMdu nhI rkqI ] (1036-4, mwrU, mÚ 1)

saajan meet bind nahee raktee.

There were no friends or companions, no semen or blood.

Awpy swhu Awpy vxjwrw swcy eyho Bwiedw ]12] (1036-4, mwrU, mÚ 1)

aapay saahu aapay vanjaaraa saachay ayho bhaa-idaa. ||12||

He Himself is the banker, and He Himself is the merchant. Such is the Pleasure of the Will of the True Lord. ||12||

byd kqyb n isMimRiq swsq ] (1036-5, mwrU, mÚ 1)

bayd katayb na simrit saasat.

There were no Vedas, Korans or Bibles, no Simritees or Shaastras.

pwT purwx audY nhI Awsq ] (1036-5, mwrU, mÚ 1)

paath puraan udai nahee aasat.

There was no recitation of the Puraanas, no sunrise or sunset.

khqw bkqw Awip Agocru Awpy AlKu lKwiedw ]13] (1036-5, mwrU, mÚ 1)

kahtaa baktaa aap agochar aapay alakh lakhaa-idaa. ||13||

The Unfathomable Lord Himself was the speaker and the preacher; the unseen Lord Himself saw everything. ||13||

jw iqsu Bwxw qw jgqu aupwieAw ] (1036-6, mwrU, mÚ 1)

jaa tis bhaanaa taa jagat upaa-i-aa.

When He so willed, He created the world.

bwJu klw Awfwxu rhwieAw ] (1036-6, mwrU, mÚ 1)

baajh kalaa aadaan rahaa-i-aa.

Without any supporting power, He sustained the universe.

bRhmw ibsnu mhysu aupwey mwieAw mohu vDwiedw ]14] (1036-7, mwrU, mÚ 1)

barahmaa bisan mahays upaa-ay maa-i-aa moh vaDhaa-idaa. ||14||

He created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva; He fostered enticement and attachment to Maya. ||14||

ivrly kau guir sbdu suxwieAw ] (1036-7, mwrU, mÚ 1)

virlay ka-o gur sabad sunaa-i-aa.

How rare is that person who listens to the Word of the Guru's Shabad.

kir kir dyKY hukmu sbwieAw ] (1036-8, mwrU, mÚ 1)

kar kar daykhai hukam sabaa-i-aa.

He created the creation, and watches over it; the Hukam of His Command is over all.

KMf bRhmMf pwqwl ArMBy gupqhu prgtI Awiedw ]15] (1036-8, mwrU, mÚ 1)

khand barahmand paataal arambhay guptahu pargatee aa-idaa. ||15||

He formed the planets, solar systems and nether regions, and brought what was hidden to manifestation. ||15||

qw kw AMqu n jwxY koeI ] (1036-9, mwrU, mÚ 1)

taa kaa ant na jaanai ko-ee.

No one knows His limits.

(Guru Sahib is saying no one knows Waheguru's limits not like you say nothinginess.)

pUry gur qy soJI hoeI ] (1036-9, mwrU, mÚ 1)

pooray gur tay sojhee ho-ee.

This understanding comes from the Perfect Guru.

nwnk swic rqy ibsmwdI ibsm Bey gux gwiedw ]16]3]15] (1036-9, mwrU, mÚ 1)

naanak saach ratay bismaadee bisam bha-ay gun gaa-idaa. ||16||3||15||

O Nanak, those who are attuned to the Truth are wonderstruck; singing His Glorious Praises, they are filled with wonder. ||16||3||15|| ang 1036

However, I do like the second part of your answer and it makes sense so I thank you for that. Despite this, the basic question of would anything DIFFERENT happen to a no spiritual soul/entity at the end of creation? still stands though.. perhaps I have phrased it incorrectly but it has nothing to do with pure/impure state. I look forward to your reply.

PS: Dear malkeet paaji, Thank you for your reply.. it was inspiring.

<BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break">

It has been answered; you just refuse to accept the answer. Just like you refuse to accept Waheguru created himself. Also you did not answer a question of mine, so I'll again post the answer and a question of mine for you.

This might be your main question, but the question is based on false knowledge. Like the soul being pure no matter what. Also in my first post I told you that things are also destroyed by Waheguru. Then I added those that don't want to follow satguru will see the end result of being destroyed. So some or majority don't get re-immersed with Waheguru. So why be religious, one answer would be so you are not destroyed by Waheguru. Keeping in mind that being destroyed and re-immersing are two different things and not one and the same. When Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji came to this universe, he was one with Waheguru, though to mere mortals he was seen as separate. What I am saying is that you need to develop the eyes to see what is one with Waheguru and still has an identity as the one and what is separate, which will be destroyed at his will. If you come up with that re-immerse and destroyed are the same thing, then you are describing a limited God that can't destroy his own creation. Lastly coming from the Lord and immersing into Waheguru are not the same thing.

Also how can you re-immerse into the Lord when in the first place you were not immersed in the Lord???? We surely came from the Lord, but that does not mean we are immersed into Waheguru.

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