The Word "Ram Ram" In The Guru Granth Sahib

[MansWisdom]

There is no doubt that the gurus were the sargun saroop of waheguru as well. Guru gobind singh says this in dasam bani

"Hemkund Parvat Hai Jahan Sapat Shring sobhit Hai Tahan. Sapat Shring Tahan Nam Kahava. Pandu Raj Jahan Yog Kamaya. Tahan Hum Adhik Tapasya Sadhi. Mahan Kal Kalika Aradhi. Ehi Bidhi Karat Tapaya Bhaya. Dwai Te Ek Rup Hwai Gayo"

They became 1 there was no difference between guru and and akal purakh.

Paji is not that I don't have faith on gurbani is just that I don't have faith on the english translations too much. As in the past they have been proven wrong by brahmgianis before when I asked them specific tuks. Bani is very hard to understand.

But I was also told by mahapuraks that some avatars were infected by maya as well but waheguru came in another sargun saroop to help them. Gurbani is deep and beyond my understanding but daas with maharaj's kirpa will hopefully get veechar on these issues.

Hence another meaning of what I wrote above when avtars face problems akal purakh always intervenes and helps them

santan dukh pai te dukhi

sukh pai sadhan ke sukhi

..

.

[Bundha]

Bhaji, you say that this is going to be the last yuga. What has been said about KALKI - AVATAR who is the 24 incarnation of vishnu.

[MansWisdom]

I know but that was what I was told lol. But maybe satjug won't come maybe a different or a new era of the current jug? Maybe khalsa raj?

MAYBE PARLOH!!!! THEN MAYBE AGE WILL START AGAIN

What I was told was brief but I should of asked more on this..

[vjkaram]

Krishan is wahiguru and Raam is Wahiguru and so they are equal to Guru Nanak????????.

What a pathetic thinking! How can such people who call Raam and Krishan equal to Guru Nanak and further call them wahiguru, be called Sikhs. They are Hindus in guise of Sikhs.

What has become of this site? where are all the Kundalia Bir Khalsa? Gurbani is saying that there are millions or Raams in the dhoor of wahiguru and Gurbani is saying that Raam is gone and Ravan is gone but these hindu minded sikhs are saying that raam and krishan are wahiguru.

[Singhstah]

I know but that was what I was told lol. But maybe satjug won't come maybe a different or a new era of the current jug? Maybe khalsa raj?

MAYBE PARLOH!!!! THEN MAYBE AGE WILL START AGAIN

What I was told was brief but I should of asked more on this..

Or Maybe you need to start believing bani rather than be brainwashed by 'what you've been told'.

Anyway as to the actual topic, there is no way Sri Krishan Ji or Sri Raam can be compared to Guru Nanak who there is no other like, the proof is in our GURU, Gurbani. Gurbani states firstly that there is no one like our Guru, ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਜੇਵਡੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥

Saṯgur jevad avar na ko▫e.

No one else is as great as the True Guru.

ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਸੋਇ ॥

Gur pārbarahm parmesar so▫e.

The Guru is the Supreme Lord, the Transcendent Lord God.

No matter who says it no one can contradict bani, bani says it clear cut, there is no one else as great as the True Guru. Gurbani can also tell you the reasons why, one is NAAM.

What does Gurbani say about Satguru Ji and Naam?

A:ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਆਪਿ ਮਿਲਾਵੈ ਸੋਇ ॥

सतिगुरु दाता हरि नाम का प्रभु आपि मिलावै सोइ ॥

Saṯgur ḏāṯā har nām kā parabẖ āp milāvai so▫e.

The True Guru is the Giver of the Name of the Lord. God Himself causes us to meet Him.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਬੁਝਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਜੇਵਡੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥

सतिगुरि हरि प्रभु बुझिआ गुर जेवडु अवरु न कोइ ॥

Saṯgur har parabẖ bujẖi▫ā gur jevad avar na ko▫e.

The True Guru understands the Lord God. There is no other as Great as the Guru.

and what does Gurbani say about the devte/avtars and naam?

A:ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਸਿਧ ਬੁਧ ਤੇਤੀਸ ਕੋਟਿ ਮੁਨਿ ਜਨ ਸਭਿ ਚਾਹਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਤੇਰੋ ਨਾਉ ॥

Ḏẖanāsrī mėhlā 4. Cẖa▫orāsīh siḏẖ buḏẖ ṯeṯīs kot mun jan sabẖ cẖāhėh har jī▫o ṯero nā▫o.

Dhanaasaree, Fourth Mehl: The eighty-four Siddhas, the spiritual masters, the Buddhas, the three hundred thirty million gods and the silent sages, all long for Your Name, O Dear Lord.

How can there be a comparison between the devte who LONG for the sat naam, and the Satguru who is the sole giver of sat Naam!

How about another reason;

What else does Gurbani say about the Satguru?

A:ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਨਾ ਆਵੈ ਨਾ ਜਾਇ ॥

Saṯgur merā saḏā saḏā nā āvai na jā▫e.

My True Guru, forever and ever, does not come and go.

ਓਹੁ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੧੩॥

Oh abẖināsī purakẖ hai sabẖ mėh rahi▫ā samā▫e. ||13||

He is the Imperishable Creator Lord; He is permeating and pervading among all. ||13||

What else does Gurbani say about the devte?

A:ਰਾਮੁ ਗਇਓ ਰਾਵਨੁ ਗਇਓ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਬਹੁ ਪਰਵਾਰੁ ॥

रामु गइओ रावनु गइओ जा कउ बहु परवारु ॥

Rām ga▫i▫o rāvan ga▫i▫o jā ka▫o baho parvār.

Raam Chand passed away, as did Raawan, even though he had lots of relatives.

and

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਹੇਸਰ ਬਿਸਨ ਸਚੀਪਿਤ ਅੰਤ ਫਸੇ ਜਮ ਫਾਸਿ ਪਰੈਂਗੇ ॥

ब्रहम महेसर बिसन सचीपित अंत फसे जम फासि परैंगे ॥

Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu and Consort of Sachi (Indra) would ultimately fall in the noose of death.(Sri Dasam Granth Sahib)

Or how can we compare the ONE eternal Jot of Akaal Purakh himself to those who were born and died/will die who there are countless numbers of?

Clearly anyone who accepts Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as there Guru will have not even an iota of doubt left in their minds that the devte are not in the least bit comparable to the Daata of Naam Niranakar, Jagat Guru Satguru Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj to Guru Granth Panth Sahib Ji Maharaj.

[Singhstah]

-

[MansWisdom]

Or Maybe you need to start believing bani rather than be brainwashed by 'what you've been told'.

Just to let you know the mahapurakh that told me this was pooran and is very well known to the panth. Brahmgianis do not "brainwash" you rather they give you true gian of gurbani NOT JUST THE MINUTE GIAN YOU GET OF THE ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS OF THE INTERNET.

Gurbani states firstly that there is no one like our Guru, ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਜੇਵਡੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥

Saṯgur jevad avar na ko▫e.

No one else is as great as the True Guru.

Singh I humbly request that you dig deeper into gurbani rather than just plugging english translations of the internet your not interpretating them right.

The reason is that the term satguru doesn't just mean the sikh gurus only it means any avtar, pooran brahmgiani etc. The term satguru has been discussed by mahapuraks many times and even brahmgiani sant jagjit singh discusses the meaning. Please please listen to the veechar it can be found online.

Now replace the definition of satguru with what the brahmgianis say now it makes more sense doesn't it ji?

How can there be a comparison between the devte who LONG for the sat naam, and the Satguru who is the sole giver of sat Naam!

Sant Jagjit singh ji, sant isher singh ji, sant dalel singh ji, sant harnam singh ji, sant karam singh ji etc all mention satguru was in the existance in nirgun saroop from the beginning. They came as sargun saroop of ram chandar, krishan avatar, Guru avtar etc to spread naam. All avtars were pooran brahmgianis in their past life before they took form as avtars. For e.g. Guru gobind singh ji's past incarnation was dusht daman and his "satguru" was a rishi who gave him "nam" or charan paul amrit. Then once he became 1 he came as guru avtar in kal Jug.

Also if you have a chance to study any of the brahmgiani's writings above you will come to understand this. I used to think sikhi is the ONLY WAY. But after veechars and getting personal bachans from pooran brahmgianis daas has noticed how universal all brahmgianis are just like how universal waheguru is for everyone not JUST SIKHS. Also this is what sant jagjit singh ji said when a premi asked them that are sikhs only accepted to meet waheguru(Sachkand)? He said no, anyone from any dharam can. Making all the avtars sachkandis themselve otherwise the followers of another religion cannot meet god if their avatars won't sachkandis. Santji further explained that if waheguru favoured the sikhs more then he would of given the sikhs further privileges such as wealth while ppl of other religions would of been made poor, given them water while other religions would of been left thirsty and hungry. Clearly this is not the case and my point being all avtars and guru are the same comparing them is futile and all religions are equally pleasing to akal purakh.

Singh Ji you need to listen to veechar by brahmgianis as their knowledge is true and the english translation don't compare to their knowledge that are found on the internet as it was not written by gian vadis. 1 premi once asked how much more knowledge does a brahmgiani have compared to a person that is agiani? The answer given was a metaphor as the knowledge comparison can't be described. The metaphor given was that the agiani's knowledge is equivelent to a drop of water while a brahmgiani's knowledge is equivelent to the vast water of the oceans!

Also 1 more thing all the avtars and guru avtars were not born nor did they die. Veechar is done on this as well so please spend your time learning what this means. Look out for how the avtars bodies differ from ours and how they came into existance etc. You will get your answer.

So please please listen to veechars and educate yourself.

[MansWisdom]

Hence we can conclude that:

There is no difference between the gurus and krishan avatar, ram chandar, raja janak etc.

Har harjan dohi ik he bib bechar kich nah

God and gods lovers(brahmgiani, avtars, gurus etc) are 1 comparing them is futile

[harryss]

I think this should clear some doubts.

Bhagat Kabir,

ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥

Kabīr rāmai rām kaho kahibe māhi bibek.

Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction.

ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥

Ėk anekėh mil ga▫i▫ā ek samānā ek. ||191||

One 'Raam' is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself. ||191||

[alias]

i cant believe that no one has said that >> God has infinite number of names..

because god has been called raam, God, allah, vaheguru, the shabad koi bole raam raam koi bole khudaae was (one of the reasons) that this shabad got created..

we dont believe in the avtaars as God. this is y in dasam ji bani akkal ustat >> bhram, mehesk bishan sachipat ant phasae jum phaas parangae<<.. here dasam pitas is talking bout the avtaars. paarbharam in sggs, (just as is raghunaath, raan, gopal, syaam, hadhur, gobind, maadhav, damodar etc..)means god,, like >tu paarbharam parameswar jorn na aavaee...< >>tu paarbharam beant beant ji tere kya gun aakh...<<.

paaras parsiae, paras hoe (and paar na paae sake padmaapat)

this tuk, ang 27 shows what 'paar' means. so paar-bharam, like parameswar, param-eswar, and other such words like niranjan --> nir + anjan etc...

so paarbharam, is god. for the understanding to humanity, what the msg of god is, our gurus have used whats 'oredy out there' i.e. allah, raam, syaam etc.. to try make us undestand to unite under the unity and 'one-ity' of the brotherhood of humanity. same with the shabad (word) allah.

however at the same time, guru ji has explained also, that worshiping people as gods, raam chandr, shiv dude etc, aint gona get u no where..

and guru is not devi di poojak but akaalpurakh de pookak - in the dust daman flex, guru ji sez mahakaal, KAL KA aradhi... its KAAAL – KA. translation being that, makaal = jehera KAAL NU, kaal deen vaala, n thats hu I prayed (aaraad) to.. somt ppl say kalka together. its not, its its separate, kaal, ka. same place else where, deev kaal ka maat hamara. others say (kaala afgans/ das granthi virodhis..) that guru ji aint no devi poojak (yes this is good, we know this) so why would P:10 write >> deev KAALKA maat hamara<< hence dasam granth is wrong.. this is the stupid argument by the falatooz (my own made up word ) the real meaning is >> deev KAAL KA maat hamara<< my mata is the one that can kill the devis. deevi nu kaal karan vala. just like tum maat pita hum baarak...

plus, the falatooz say that in chaupi, >>Kirpa kari hum par jagmata..<< here they say again that guru ji is bowing to jagmata i.e. devi.. kaalka.. but again this is wrong, cus guru ji is talking bout the Father-Mother of the whole world.. just like tum maat pita hum baarak... plus, if guru ji was talking bout kaalka, y is it written kilbikh sakal dehe ko harTA, and dust dokhyan ko chai karTA.. because if guru ji was talking bout kalika, it would have said... >> kilbikh sakal dehe ko harTI, and dust dokhyan ko chai karTI. n we all know what it sez in chaupi...

heres summin....

when we say ima go sleep in jabi, we say, mai raam karna..

people used to believe ( and still do believe!) that if u meditate on god (by saying raam raam or whatever) then if u die then its good cus then we will go heaven (or a very happy nice place etc..)

this concept is in sikhi too.. die with the name of god on your lips/mind then we will go heaven.. same reason y we do sohela... bhav khandan is the sucha aarti. - which is y yet another reason we do aarti n that...

guru naanak dev maharaj and all our gurus were above all devis... when guru ji went in water 4 3 days, as they were going to heaven then to god, all the devis recognised gru naanak dev ji as akaalpurakh roop then each one of the devis gave guru ji their shakti to guru ji as a gift while guru ji went to akaal purakh.

this shakti was peshed to the khalsa panth via amrit..

KHALSAAA JIII!!!!!!

WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE POWERs and shaktis OF DEVI DEVTE!!!! BY OUR VERY OWN DHAN SATPURAKHAI GURU MAHARAAAJAIAA DA MAHARAAJA!! AAAP AKAALPURAKH ROOP!!! (pauri number 8 in amrit savayaee - jy nar sri pat...)

this IS eternalised fromcharan amrit into khanda dhaar (:D:D:D:D:D maut dhaat amrit!!) along with the eternalisation of our sadh sahhaita guru maha maha maha raaj (sggs)!

sikhi is like no other religon on the world. its our sikh dharam..

sucha janz are true sevaks. which is y guru ji has given us, blessed us naam and seva. rather the oppertunity and choice whether to do it or not... WE decide whether to be true jan. har-jan.

im debating whether to delete this las bit where i got bit 'excited' ....but ill jus leve it here...

p.s. it is wrong to compare sevas of mahapurashz. they are all sevaks of god. where we should aim to get to.. >>reesa kare tinaaria, jo sevehe dar khariaaha<< copy those dudes (sevaks) that stand at the gates of heaven, dargaha.

soz for bhuals.. do khima.. am moorakh

fateh jio