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Do You Have To Be Amritdhari To Wear Kirpan

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I don't eat meat nor do i drink.. i stopped a long time ago.

I'm not amritdhari, so i don't do paat every morning etc.. But i do keep my dhari etc, i wear a blue dastaar (personally i like tying it more than the normal black ones, even though it makes me looks more religious than i actually am lol)

Can i wear a Kirpan then .. Cuz i thought of this, i can wear Kara/Khanga etc, even if i did eat meat (get paahp i know), but wearing a Kirpan would sort of be in the same context kinda (even though i know it has a completely different meaning from the other K's)

I dont eat egg anymore, but i sometimes want to go back.. Cuz i need a lot of protien for my training. (Also the eggs we eat are unfertilized eggs in UK, so they never had a chance of becoming live offspring, in my mind of (science) thats how it works.. and so i think its ok to eat eggs)

So in my opinion all the 5 K's are equal, so wearing one is just the same as the other.

So could i wear a Kirpan and not be amritdhari yet, and what would happen if i ate an egg (even though in my mindset its apparently ok)

P.s. the reason for wearing a Kirpan is this (it may sound stupid, im sorry but hear me out)

I never really bothered with a Kirpan before.. Untill next year in uni, basically i didnt bother looking at housing for next year untill really late, i just with luck found a house with my friends, problem is its in a horrid run down area (20mins walk from uni .. and its to late to back down).. i have to walk through about 2-3 alleys ways to get to my house from uni, and theres graffitti everywhere, i see gangs of idiotic chavs, and genereally i would just fear for my safety walking home at nights thru those alleys, this is where the idea came from.. i need some sort of protection against <banned word filter activated> chavs with knives if they had 1, and Kirpan fits perfectly into my solution, though i pray i never have to use it .. so you see, its a just in case emergency type of thing.. but i dont wanna be putting too much paahp on my self if i did eat egg and carried a kirpan for example

But all in all my priority is 'my lifes safety' it is greater than 'what paahp i can recieve' :/

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some ppl wear a kirpan be4 they take amrit and the est of the kakkars to get used to the lifestyle and keeping the kakkars on their body,

start wearing a sarbloh kirpan it will feel amazing,but pleasse refrain from the 4 bujjar kurehits--eating meat, drinking, cuting hair and commiting adultery

wear it if u are a sehajdhari,

once u wear a kirpan its makin an outside statement that i am Guru Gobind Singh jis son,

so u kno wut i mean, like if u going to parties clubs bars, its no longer acceptable.

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I am going to sound a bit harsh but aren't there other ways to protect yourself? If you want to wear a kirpan before you take amrit so you could fix your rehat to take amrit, it would be perfectly fine. I just don't think you should wear a kirpan because of safety only. ( I know your trying to justifie it but even your own comments are saying safety is the biggest reason, until waheguru is your biggest reason, you aren't ready to wear the kirpan ). There are other means to protect yourself. so why this one? Unless you are ready to commit yourself to waheguru and that is the reason you wear a kirpan, you have no reason to wear it. And even if you do wear a kirpan it well not hold the same meaning as the 5 ks Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave us. It well just be a knife. sorry don't mean to hurt anyone feelings.

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A kirpan is for the person wishing to give his/her head, not for a person looking to save his/her a**.

If you are concerned about your safety and are intent on carrying something, and without commenting on the legality or wisdom in such an approach, you can can carry a hammer, a bat, a tire iron, a large screw driver, plastic gun (keep it hidden if the other guy has a real one) etc. You sure a bicep tattoo won't suffice? You can also get a job, or a more shifts etc. and move to a better neighborhood.

If all 5ks are equal, then it follows for a sehajdhari that every kakkar requires equal respect and consideration as to your purpose in making it part of you.

Kudos to you for coming as far as you have. In sum, you deserve to develop a better relationship with the kirpan than what you propose.

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I have to agree with the above two posts. I am not an Amritdhari yet and I still believe that you cannot get such an important kakkar without giving your head, You can carry a pocket knife, pepper spray, or just regular knife. Why a Kirpan?

Makes no sense to me.

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P.s. the reason for wearing a Kirpan is this (it may sound stupid, im sorry but hear me out)

I never really bothered with a Kirpan before.. Untill next year in uni, basically i didnt bother looking at housing for next year untill really late, i just with luck found a house with my friends, problem is its in a horrid run down area (20mins walk from uni .. and its to late to back down).. i have to walk through about 2-3 alleys ways to get to my house from uni, and theres graffitti everywhere, i see gangs of idiotic chavs, and genereally i would just fear for my safety walking home at nights thru those alleys, this is where the idea came from.. i need some sort of protection against <banned word filter activated> chavs with knives if they had 1, and Kirpan fits perfectly into my solution, though i pray i never have to use it .. so you see, its a just in case emergency type of thing.. o much paahp on my self but i dont wanna be putting toif i did eat egg and carried a kirpan for example

But all in all my priority is 'my lifes safety' it is greater than 'what paahp i can recieve' :/

never bothered with kirpan? bothered? why bother yourself with it now?

kirpan fits perfectly into my solution? are we suppose to change for waheguru or does he change for us? i am confused please explain.

o much paahp on my self but i dont wanna be putting toif i did eat egg and carried a kirpan for example? you have no self control, are you ready to carry a weapon, if that is how you view a kirpan. you can trust yourself not to eat eggs with kirpan on but you can trust yourself not to raise kirpan for very little thing? We always use kirpan as last resort, have you tried other ways to solve problem?

But all in all my priority is 'my lifes safety' it is greater than 'what paahp i can recieve' :/? the right to wear kirpan is earned by giving your head, you just admited you ain't ready to do that. please find a different something to protect yourself with.

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keep it is a shastar, don't worry, just dont wear it outside or show it to others as that would give the impression you are amritdhari which you shouldn't do (especially as you eat meat at the moment). As long as you don't do this I don't see any problem with you wearing it as a shastar. I would say if you wore it it might be the same in shape as other kirpans, but in principle I think its no longer a kirpan but a shastar, so no problemo. I would suggest this one, its actually useable and it doesn't matter its not sarbloh because ur not wearing it as kakkar (although sarbloh does have a lot of shakti) khalsakirpans.com artisan kirpan. Its pricey but better than the blunt stuff you get at gurdwarae.

Guru Mahraj does not want us walking around like sheep whoever we are, one of the main points of the Khalsa revolution in the 1600s was to give everyone the chance to defend themselves, the mughals wanted shastars for only mughals and now amritdharis should certainly not follow suit and keep shastars from those still getting there, your life is worth as much as any amritdharis.

*I do not suggest the use of a kirpan in any situation

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I started wearing all 5 kakaars 9 weeks before I took Amrit, to get used to wearing them forever. If you've made up your mind to take Amrit in the very near future, its best to start practicing the Gursikh lifestyle. However, if you're not sure that you'll take Amrit, or when you'll take it, then avoid it for now and give yourself some more time till you are totally certain.

Just my thoughts

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dagger%20flame%20ebony-damascus%20collab.%20ray%20smith.JPGI reccomend u get a blade or dagger, i have seen like small ones so maybe same size as a 6 inch kirpan, and u can get it with a belt that goes around your waist,,, iv seen a nihung singh with a dagger + belt on his thigh,,

So it only makes sense for u to wear kirpan if ur gonna stop eating meat and drinking,

Its simple, either u are a sehajdhari-practising sikh, or your still unsure,, in that case dont wear the kirpan, it is Guru Sahibs Beloved gift to his Khalsa-- and it must be kept with utmost respect, so if u eat meat then u touch ur kirpan as to move it to the side, ur doing beadbi straight up.

Go with what state of mind u are in right now, then u can build up ur confidence and strength to become a real sher(Lion) and proudly wear a kirpan on the outside as a symbol of love for your Guru and that u will not tolerate injustice !

i hope u the best veere!

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There is little point carrying a shastar if you dont have the training or knowedge on how to use it...in the case of a knife..your more likely to have it taken off you and having it used on you...You do realise should you stab someone with a shastar and not be able to prove justifiable force or self defecne...your likely to go to jail..Hence if you dont know the weapon and it's limitations, uses, boundaries...dont carry one.

Before you carry shastar learn how to respect the shastar, take up the relevant training. You can even use a reasonably large kara as a shastar doesnt have to be a knife, you can use keys...slyh etc.

I recommend you learn self defence and self preservtion, 1stly why cant you find an alternative safer route home through entries..where you know your more likely to end up in a situation...even if the other way is longer...if it's safer use it.

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But all in all my priority is 'my lifes safety' it is greater than 'what paahp i can recieve' :/

you wont be safe at all here or after if u do paap cus u will kamaa karam. we are here to bhorg karam..

kirpaan is generally the last kakaar that one is blessed with... if you are an abhlakhee (a dude thas preparing to take amrit or is read to take amrit), then u can.

for training, whey protien is the best. better than any meat and egg.. look it up.. all good shakes are going toward whey protien..

soz but its not ok to eat eggs. we are not here to harvest what we can from this world, and to try n get around the rules set by guru ji and our religon, but to come under hukam and follow the hukam.

we as sikhs do not rather, should not indulge in the pleasures of anything apart from aatamak ras cus every other ras is fika (tasteless).

if u wear a kirpaan for that reason, its not a kirpan. the actual word kirpaan means somthing u no - hopefully u will find it out for yourself.

you may get the dagger taken off you. what id do is carry somthing on my back, under my cloaths. or, jus make them ur mates but dont hang with them - it is possible!.

the kirpaan is to stand up against opression, not idol people that hurt ones ego. besides im sure that if it is more than 1 person in the gang, then u will find it hard to defete them and!, the last thing u wana do is provoke these kinda ppl..

know all the idiots and 'hard nuts' but, do NOT get into silly company or hang with them for longer.... uni is good for 'networking', but DO NOT GO OFF THE PATH!

it is possible....

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Puran GurSikhs like Bhai Gurdas ji, Bhai Kaniyeha Ji, Bhai NandLal ji didnot get Amrit di Daat from Panj Pyare during Dasam Pitaji's Time. Bcz if They would have got Amrit, There name should have been Bhai Gurdas SInghji, Bhai Kanihaa Singh ji or Bhai Nand Singhji. Nor they wore Kirpans and Shasters.

WHY DIDNOT THEY RECIEVE AMRIT DI DAAT and SHASHTERDHARI????

Bcz they were Puran Brhamgyanis. They had Braham Drishti. They saw Braham(Akal Purakh di Jot) Even in Enemies. So They were Naam Abiyasias Sikhs who did Suneha manea man kita bhao. Antar ghat thirath mal naao.

So there are some Facts in Sikh History which we would never understand,'Why Guruji Did this?'. That is why Bani Says ' Tu Beant kau Virla Jane, Gurprasad kao Shabad Pashane'

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ACtually, I believe they did take Amrit. But sometimes you have more than one singh with the same name. So they were known by their earlier names to differentiate them. There's Bhai Gurdass (from 5th gurus time) and Bhai Gurdass Singh from 10th gurus time.

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As i Said SUN SINGH JI ,

there are some Facts in Sikh History which we would never understand,'Why Guruji Did this?'. That is why Bani Says ' Tu Beant kau Virla Jane, Gurprasad kao Shabad Pashane'.

1. If we read Sikh History, On One side Few SIkhs are telling 5th Patshahi that Guruji should accept the Wedding Proposal of Chandu shah's Daughter beacuse Chandu Shah was the main Powerholder in Lahore. If we Donot accept the Proposal, He would Create problems for Guruji in Lahore. And on Other Side Lahore Sikhs are telling that ,;Guruji Donot Accept this Wedding Proposal, He Had insulted you'.

And we can see How Guruji accepted the Command of Lahore SIkhs and Didnot accept the Wedding Proposal and what all happened Afterwards.

2. Guru Arjun Dev ji Could have given the blessings for the Son to Mata Gangaji but Guruji Said,'Goto Baba Buddha ji to reicve the Boon for Son'

3. On One Side Guru Gobiind singh ji Said,' Sikho Wait for Half an Hour in Chamkaur di Gari[During Chamkaur di Jang] and I would Give Entrie Khalsa Raaj to you' and on one side 5 Payares give command to Guruji to Leave Chamkaur di Gari(Protection of Guruji).

4. One Side Guru Gobind singh ji Sache Patshah wanted to Kill Aurangzeb and Eliminate Moguls from Punjab. Guru Gobind singh ji went to Nanded and Ordered Baba Banda Bahadur to Eliminate the Raaj of Moguls from Punjab and Delhi. And On other side Guru Gobind singh ji gave Raj Tilak to Shah Jahan(Son of Auranzeb) and Shahjahan told Guruji,' Banda Bahadur is Creating Disaster for Moguls'. Guruji Replied to Shahjahan,' Donot Worry. Ohhda Kam Hojayega' and Sikh History is the Evidence that How Baba Banda Bahadur was Killed because He didnot |Follow 3 Khaas bachans of Guruji.

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4. One Side Guru Gobind singh ji Sache Patshah wanted to Kill Aurangzeb and Eliminate Moguls from Punjab. Guru Gobind singh ji went to Nanded and Ordered Baba Banda Bahadur to Eliminate the Raaj of Moguls from Punjab and Delhi. And On other side Guru Gobind singh ji gave Raj Tilak to Shah Jahan(Son of Auranzeb) and Shahjahan told Guruji,' Banda Bahadur is Creating Disaster for Moguls'. Guruji Replied to Shahjahan,' Donot Worry. Ohhda Kam Hojayega' and Sikh History is the Evidence that How Baba Banda Bahadur was Killed because He didnot |Follow 3 Khaas bachans of Guruji.

Uhmm Shah Jahan was Auranzeb's father. Auranzeb's son was Bahadur Shah.

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kirpaan is generally the last kakaar that one is blessed with...

who told you this?

traditionally the Kara was the last kakkar, but nowadays cos its the easiest to wear most people think its the first.

self-defence is not for the religious only, and sikhs used to wear weapons for almost 100 years before khande ki pahul was first used. everybody has the right to defend themselves but with kirpan there are some obligations that 1 should adhere to.ie be keshadhari and non-alcohol user, but as cisco singh ji has pointed out, a sikh should always learn how to use weapons and his first weapons are his body, then think about using kirpan.

someone has said never use a kirpan in any circumstance, then why bother to wear it? Kirpan even brandished will make someone think again about attacking you.

the rubbish about not eating meat, if you are going to wear kirpan is laughable, if you read history.

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Puran GurSikhs like Bhai Gurdas ji, Bhai Kaniyeha Ji, Bhai NandLal ji didnot get Amrit di Daat from Panj Pyare during Dasam Pitaji's Time. Bcz if They would have got Amrit, There name should have been Bhai Gurdas SInghji, Bhai Kanihaa Singh ji or Bhai Nand Singhji. Nor they wore Kirpans and Shasters.

WHY DIDNOT THEY RECIEVE AMRIT DI DAAT and SHASHTERDHARI????

Bhai Gurdas Ji, newphew of Guru Amar Das Ji, was given charan amrit, gurmantar and other rehats to be practiced every day. He mentions it himself in his Vaars. Second Bhai Gurdas Singh was contemporary of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Bhai Nand Lal Ji was given charan amrit as well as is clear from Bhatt Vahis. Charan amrit was changed to Khandi Ki Pahul. Both served the same purpose i.e. going through transformation of life socially, morally, ethically and spiritually. It meant receiving naam gurmantar from the guru and living a disciplined life based on ideals set forth by the Gurus. Since Bhai Nand Lal Ji had taken charan pahul there was no need for him to do it again.

Some historical texts mention him taking khandi ki pahul and his name became Bhai Nand Singh but his previous name stuck. Same happened with Bhai Kanhaeya Ji, Bhai Ram Kuar Ji (Bhai Gurbakhsh Singh), Mata Gujri Ji etc. Rehatnama and Tankhahnama by Bhai Sahib make it clear what the injunctions are. In either case he was guru wala Sikh.

Bhai Kanhaeya Ji took pahul from Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji and did sangat of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. There is no evidence to suggest that a Sikh who had taken pahul from one guru was required to take it again from the next guru. Again, he had received pahul and thus was guru wala. Dr. Trilochan Singh states that Sikhs who had taken charan pahul were not required to take Amrit again but it does not prove they were exempt. They were considered part of Khalsa. Sikhs these day are simply confusing themselves and undermining the importance of Amrit. Nirmalas, Udasis, Nihungs, Akalis etc simply meant one thing in early 18th century: Sikh or Nanakpanthi. Their roles were different but they were part of the same Khalsa brotherhood. No exceptions or exemptions.

One cannot be a Sikh without becoming guru wala. Whether a Sikh took charan pahul prior to 1699 or khanday ki pahul after 1699 did not matter as both went through the same process. However, after 1699 charan pahul was discarded all together and only five beloved ones performed Amrit ceremony. If you have any shred of evidence that any Sikh was exempt from taking Amrit and becoming guru wala or wearing any of the kakkars, please bring it forward.

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I know some nirmal and virkat brahm gianis that have not taken amrit and have merged with akal purakh without taking amrit. Of course amrit is important but it is not the only way....

As it comes down to this main question in life (as everyones aim is or should be this), can you still attain sachkand (merge with waheguru become puran) without kandei ki phaul the anwser is yes...

But 1 of the main reasons in taking amrit is if any sikh falls into hell by chance then he/she will be pulled out by their kes. (There is a sakhi on this where Guru Gobind singh showed someone who was doubting amrit and not keeping hair but I won't mention it now)

Also here is something for everyone to think about:

Who and what is khalsa?

Is becoming khalsa only for sikhs or can others in other religions become khalsa?

Also the points made by bijla singh ji are debatable as some gursikhs in the time of bhai nand lal did take kande ki phaul even if they had taken charan phaul before. But you can debate on whether they did not take amrit because they were pakhe with their religion and did not want to break their way of religion.

Also Mohinder Pal is right that bhai nand lal ji did not take amrit. There is actually a sakhi on this, but I will quickly summarise the points.

Bhai Nand Lal who was of different religion did not take amrit and had the same avasta (spirtual state) as Sant jarnail singh Khalsa bhindrawale of abnasi darshan (seeing waheguru everywhere and was sachkandi already). But the sikhs did not like this and they took him to Guru Gobind singh ji and guru gobind singh told him why you should take amrit about being pulled out of narak(as mentioned above) and bhai nand lal ji said if I fall in hell please grab me by my ears and pull me out lol. The Guru knew bhai nand lal Ji's avasta and didn't look down on him as the guru already knew he was already in liberated(sachkand) and had full kirpa from the guru ji regardless of him taking amrit.

..

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As it comes down to this main question in life (as everyones aim is or should be this), can you still attain sachkand (merge with waheguru become puran) without kandei ki phaul the anwser is yes...

No one can become guru wala without taking Amrit from Panj. Without True Guru no one can attain anything. Gurbani is clear on this and this is the Gurmat way of life.

But 1 of the main reasons in taking amrit is if any sikh falls into hell by chance then he/she will be pulled out by their kes. (There is a sakhi on this where Guru Gobind singh showed someone who was doubting amrit and not keeping hair but I won't mention it now)

Gursikhs are not concerned with heaven or hell. Gursikh life is to carry out the Will of Waheguru and follow Hukam of the Guru. Gursikhs don’t live pure way of life just for the sake of heaven. The sakhi that I have read and the way it is mentioned by sampardas is that Guru Sahib instructed Sikhs to keep hair so that in case they fall in hell, Guru sahib will grab their top knots and pull them out. Again, this is not a proof that can be accepted for your argument and sakhi is ridiculous.

Is becoming khalsa only for sikhs or can others in other religions become khalsa?

This is simply delusional thinking. Definition of Khalsa is very clear in Gurmat and Guru Sahib has given his own image, power and authority to Amritdhari Khalsa. Other religions don’t have the same concept.

But you can debate on whether they did not take amrit because they were pakhe with their religion and did not want to break their way of religion.

Guru Sahib started a distinct path and his aim was to unite the humanity under the same way of life. His entire life, mission and writings prove that he did not approve any other religion or way of life. Gurmat is love and does not believe in forcing others to leave their religion but this does not prove that Bhai Nand Lal Ji was not a Sikh. In fact, he was married to a Sikh woman who was a great influence on him. His own work and writings are ample proof that he was a Sikh. I do not know why you are judging him to be of other religion. Just like Bhai Gurdas Ji shed doubts about 6th Guru, Bhai Nand Lal Ji shed doubts about 10th Guru. Both played the same role.

There is actually a sakhi on this, but I will quickly summarise the points. Bhai Nand Lal who was of different religion did not take amrit and had the same avasta (spirtual state) as Sant jarnail singh Khalsa bhindrawale of abnasi darshan (seeing waheguru everywhere and was sachkandi already).

So the sakhi actually states that his avastha was as same as Sant Ji? Bhatt Vahis state that he took pahul and became a Sikh. What evidence do you have that he did not take Amrit and was a different religion? Again, his own work proves to whom he dedicated his life. Sakhis are not above Gurbani.

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Bijla Singh Ji, Rather than me answering your questions I suggest you go to gurmatveechar.com and listen to the purthan kathas. Especially from sant isher singh ji and the others listed there. Also some of the answers I addressed to your questions can be found by listening to Sant Jagjit Singh Harkowale. You can find the q&a listed on this forum by sunsingh.

By listening I bet you'll be surprised by finding out what khalsa is and who really is khalsa. Also you will discover what the meaning of satguru really is....

"No one can become guru wala without taking Amrit from Panj. Without True Guru no one can attain anything. Gurbani is clear on this and this is the Gurmat way of life."

Let me answer your questions with another question lol

Do you believe that no one was "guru wala" before Guru nanak dev ji took sargun form. Was bhagat kabeer Ji/ raja janak etc khalsa and guru wale? (as they were before guru nanak dev ji took sargun form)

"Gursikhs are not concerned with heaven or hell. Gursikh life is to carry out the Will of Waheguru and follow Hukam of the Guru. Gursikhs don’t live pure way of life just for the sake of heaven. The sakhi that I have read and the way it is mentioned by sampardas is that Guru Sahib instructed Sikhs to keep hair so that in case they fall in hell, Guru sahib will grab their top knots and pull them out. Again, this is not a proof that can be accepted for your argument and sakhi is ridiculous."

Actually there are 18 big naraks and charasi joon is narak as well. The definition of narak is different but it does exist ask a gian kandi he will recall as he can see this if you have doubts. There are many heavens as well but the aim of gursikh is to become lean with waheguru. But what you mention above that gursikhs should follow the hukum of waheguru is true. But that is not the final goal following hukum is required but that is one of the fundamentals needed to self realise. (Look at PJS veer ji posts about sant isher singh on self realisation). But after self realisation the aim of gursikh is to merge with akal purak the final contemplation on self.

Actually the sakhis are not just from standard katha vachiks or so called professors that have katabi gian only. They are actually from self realised souls (brahm gianis), so it would be wise to think before you say they are ridiculous.

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Do you believe that no one was "guru wala" before Guru nanak dev ji took sargun form. Was bhagat kabeer Ji/ raja janak etc khalsa and guru wale? (as they were before guru nanak dev ji took sargun form)

This question has been addressed many times on this forum. I am sure if you do search you will find many topics on it. Bhagats whose bani is enshrined in Guru Granth Sahib were Sikhs of Guru Nanak Sahib Ji and some bhagats lived during the time Guru Amardas Ji was on guruship. Gurbani answers how Janak, Ganika etc obtained mukti.

Actually there are 18 big naraks and charasi joon is narak as well. The definition of narak is different but it does exist ask a gian kandi he will recall as he can see this if you have doubts.

Gurbani doesn’t limit number of hells to 18 but I believe they do exist. My point was that Sikhs are not concerned about them. Whosoever follows Gurbani will never go to heaven or hell. Human birth is part of 84 joonis. Gurbani calls it a rare opportunity not hell.

Sakhis told by Sants are written in Sooraj Parkash, Mahima Parkash etc. Sampardas are not always correct and the sakhi you posted is ridiculous because Gurbani states that only Naam is the savior and no one will be recognized with their religion in court of God. Only deeds count.

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Like I said singh learn from the kathas....

"This question has been addressed many times on this forum. I am sure if you do

search you will find many topics on it. Bhagats whose bani is enshrined in Guru

Granth Sahib were Sikhs of Guru Nanak Sahib Ji and some bhagats lived during the

time Guru Amardas Ji was on guruship. Gurbani answers how Janak, Ganika etc

obtained mukti."

This question also answered in the kathas please listen. Tbh the forum's replies can't be compared to the kathas of brahm gianis

"Gurbani doesn’t limit number of hells to 18 but I believe they do exist. My

point was that Sikhs are not concerned about them. Whosoever follows Gurbani

will never go to heaven or hell. Human birth is part of 84 joonis. Gurbani calls

it a rare opportunity not hell."

Also of course human life is precious but I was talking about being a dog, maggot etc. But another reason is that charci joon is hell is that through these cycles 1 has to die and be born again and again. The pain is equivelent to 1000 scorpion bites when 1 is born and 1 dies hence it is a type of narak.

"ridiculous because Gurbani states that only Naam is the savior and no one will

be recognized with their religion in court of God"

Don't other religions have naam? I assure you hindus have naam so do muslims etc

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Real Purpose of Giving Charanamrit or Khande di Paul was to Activate the Real Amrit in Dasam Dwar(Trikuti).

But i am 100% sure that Akal Cannot be realized unless Chela has the Guidance of Guru(Vaho Vaho Gobind Singh Ape Gur Chela). Bhagat Kabeer's Guru was Guru Ramanand ji, Bhagat Tirloachan' s Guru was kabeer ji, Sukhdev Muni's Guru was Bhagat janak, Bhagat Dhru's and Prahlad's Guru was Narad Muni ji.

They all gave specific Ways to their Chelas to Realize their Souls(Man tu Jot Saroop Hain.Apna Mool Pachan). Also CharanAmrit is the Oldest Maryada since Satyug to turn the Seeker into Disciple(Chela).

After 9th patshahi, This Maryada was changed becuase Guruji must have forseen the future that if the CharanaAmrit maryada is contiued, than All would goto Different Fake Gurus and Take Charanamrit. Also the Main Objective of bringing out Khande di Phaul was to bring all sikhs under one Unity Flag-KHALSA-SINGH which is essential for Future Khalsa Raaj

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Yes very good points mohinder pal Ji. Guru is essential and thanks for clearing up what guru Ji means for everyone :D

Also your last point can be a possible reason why guru ji gave kande di phaul to stop people falling to fakes as well.

But I got to add there may be a lots of fakes but among them are few who are real as well. Like sant Jagjit singh said that you can get nam from the panj pyaree but also a puran brahm giani can give you naam as well. Like in the case of guru ramanand for bhagat kabeer ji, guru ramanand was puran hence could give naam to bhagat kabeer ji.

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Very true Manswisdom,

Apart from Panj Pyare, Khande da Amrit can be taken from Realized Souls(Puran Sant,Mahapursh, Brahmagyanis). Beacuse when 5 pyares were appointed for First time by Guruji, Guru ji made sure that those Panj Payres are Sir Tar Gali Meri Aao wale Gursikhs thats is why those Selected Ones went inside the Tmboo(Tent) and Nobody Knows what happened exactly in the Tent Even THough There was a Blood on Gurujis' Sword.

Please remember that First Guruji gave them AMRIT, and than They gave Amrit to Guruji and Other Gursikhs.

KHALSA MERO SATGUR POORA(Guru ji is Giving Satgurship to the Khalsa, Not just ordinary Sikhs like us who just took Amrit and are wearing Kirpan; but ACTUAL Pure KHALS Gurusiks[Puran SANT,MAHAPursh and Brhamgyanis)

JAB Eh gaye Biprin Ki Reet, Main na Karoon In Ki Parteet. Real meaning of Biprin ki Reet is Following your Own path intead of Gurujis path. All Know what had happened to AJAMAL when his GUru told him Strictly not to go from Inside the City and Shud go from Jungle side. He didnot follow His guru's Teaching and till the emd He Suffered Pain,Poverty. Only NARAYAN NARAYAN Saved him

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