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Do You Have To Be Amritdhari To Wear Kirpan


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But all in all my priority is 'my lifes safety' it is greater than 'what paahp i can recieve' :/

you wont be safe at all here or after if u do paap cus u will kamaa karam. we are here to bhorg karam..

kirpaan is generally the last kakaar that one is blessed with... if you are an abhlakhee (a dude thas preparing to take amrit or is read to take amrit), then u can.

for training, whey protien is the best. better than any meat and egg.. look it up.. all good shakes are going toward whey protien..

soz but its not ok to eat eggs. we are not here to harvest what we can from this world, and to try n get around the rules set by guru ji and our religon, but to come under hukam and follow the hukam.

we as sikhs do not rather, should not indulge in the pleasures of anything apart from aatamak ras cus every other ras is fika (tasteless).

if u wear a kirpaan for that reason, its not a kirpan. the actual word kirpaan means somthing u no - hopefully u will find it out for yourself.

you may get the dagger taken off you. what id do is carry somthing on my back, under my cloaths. or, jus make them ur mates but dont hang with them - it is possible!.

the kirpaan is to stand up against opression, not idol people that hurt ones ego. besides im sure that if it is more than 1 person in the gang, then u will find it hard to defete them and!, the last thing u wana do is provoke these kinda ppl..

know all the idiots and 'hard nuts' but, do NOT get into silly company or hang with them for longer.... uni is good for 'networking', but DO NOT GO OFF THE PATH!

it is possible....

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Puran GurSikhs like Bhai Gurdas ji, Bhai Kaniyeha Ji, Bhai NandLal ji didnot get Amrit di Daat from Panj Pyare during Dasam Pitaji's Time. Bcz if They would have got Amrit, There name should have been Bhai Gurdas SInghji, Bhai Kanihaa Singh ji or Bhai Nand Singhji. Nor they wore Kirpans and Shasters.

WHY DIDNOT THEY RECIEVE AMRIT DI DAAT and SHASHTERDHARI????

Bcz they were Puran Brhamgyanis. They had Braham Drishti. They saw Braham(Akal Purakh di Jot) Even in Enemies. So They were Naam Abiyasias Sikhs who did Suneha manea man kita bhao. Antar ghat thirath mal naao.

So there are some Facts in Sikh History which we would never understand,'Why Guruji Did this?'. That is why Bani Says ' Tu Beant kau Virla Jane, Gurprasad kao Shabad Pashane'

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As i Said SUN SINGH JI ,

there are some Facts in Sikh History which we would never understand,'Why Guruji Did this?'. That is why Bani Says ' Tu Beant kau Virla Jane, Gurprasad kao Shabad Pashane'.

1. If we read Sikh History, On One side Few SIkhs are telling 5th Patshahi that Guruji should accept the Wedding Proposal of Chandu shah's Daughter beacuse Chandu Shah was the main Powerholder in Lahore. If we Donot accept the Proposal, He would Create problems for Guruji in Lahore. And on Other Side Lahore Sikhs are telling that ,;Guruji Donot Accept this Wedding Proposal, He Had insulted you'.

And we can see How Guruji accepted the Command of Lahore SIkhs and Didnot accept the Wedding Proposal and what all happened Afterwards.

2. Guru Arjun Dev ji Could have given the blessings for the Son to Mata Gangaji but Guruji Said,'Goto Baba Buddha ji to reicve the Boon for Son'

3. On One Side Guru Gobiind singh ji Said,' Sikho Wait for Half an Hour in Chamkaur di Gari[During Chamkaur di Jang] and I would Give Entrie Khalsa Raaj to you' and on one side 5 Payares give command to Guruji to Leave Chamkaur di Gari(Protection of Guruji).

4. One Side Guru Gobind singh ji Sache Patshah wanted to Kill Aurangzeb and Eliminate Moguls from Punjab. Guru Gobind singh ji went to Nanded and Ordered Baba Banda Bahadur to Eliminate the Raaj of Moguls from Punjab and Delhi. And On other side Guru Gobind singh ji gave Raj Tilak to Shah Jahan(Son of Auranzeb) and Shahjahan told Guruji,' Banda Bahadur is Creating Disaster for Moguls'. Guruji Replied to Shahjahan,' Donot Worry. Ohhda Kam Hojayega' and Sikh History is the Evidence that How Baba Banda Bahadur was Killed because He didnot |Follow 3 Khaas bachans of Guruji.

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4. One Side Guru Gobind singh ji Sache Patshah wanted to Kill Aurangzeb and Eliminate Moguls from Punjab. Guru Gobind singh ji went to Nanded and Ordered Baba Banda Bahadur to Eliminate the Raaj of Moguls from Punjab and Delhi. And On other side Guru Gobind singh ji gave Raj Tilak to Shah Jahan(Son of Auranzeb) and Shahjahan told Guruji,' Banda Bahadur is Creating Disaster for Moguls'. Guruji Replied to Shahjahan,' Donot Worry. Ohhda Kam Hojayega' and Sikh History is the Evidence that How Baba Banda Bahadur was Killed because He didnot |Follow 3 Khaas bachans of Guruji.

Uhmm Shah Jahan was Auranzeb's father. Auranzeb's son was Bahadur Shah.

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kirpaan is generally the last kakaar that one is blessed with...

who told you this?

traditionally the Kara was the last kakkar, but nowadays cos its the easiest to wear most people think its the first.

self-defence is not for the religious only, and sikhs used to wear weapons for almost 100 years before khande ki pahul was first used. everybody has the right to defend themselves but with kirpan there are some obligations that 1 should adhere to.ie be keshadhari and non-alcohol user, but as cisco singh ji has pointed out, a sikh should always learn how to use weapons and his first weapons are his body, then think about using kirpan.

someone has said never use a kirpan in any circumstance, then why bother to wear it? Kirpan even brandished will make someone think again about attacking you.

the rubbish about not eating meat, if you are going to wear kirpan is laughable, if you read history.

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Puran GurSikhs like Bhai Gurdas ji, Bhai Kaniyeha Ji, Bhai NandLal ji didnot get Amrit di Daat from Panj Pyare during Dasam Pitaji's Time. Bcz if They would have got Amrit, There name should have been Bhai Gurdas SInghji, Bhai Kanihaa Singh ji or Bhai Nand Singhji. Nor they wore Kirpans and Shasters.

WHY DIDNOT THEY RECIEVE AMRIT DI DAAT and SHASHTERDHARI????

Bhai Gurdas Ji, newphew of Guru Amar Das Ji, was given charan amrit, gurmantar and other rehats to be practiced every day. He mentions it himself in his Vaars. Second Bhai Gurdas Singh was contemporary of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Bhai Nand Lal Ji was given charan amrit as well as is clear from Bhatt Vahis. Charan amrit was changed to Khandi Ki Pahul. Both served the same purpose i.e. going through transformation of life socially, morally, ethically and spiritually. It meant receiving naam gurmantar from the guru and living a disciplined life based on ideals set forth by the Gurus. Since Bhai Nand Lal Ji had taken charan pahul there was no need for him to do it again.

Some historical texts mention him taking khandi ki pahul and his name became Bhai Nand Singh but his previous name stuck. Same happened with Bhai Kanhaeya Ji, Bhai Ram Kuar Ji (Bhai Gurbakhsh Singh), Mata Gujri Ji etc. Rehatnama and Tankhahnama by Bhai Sahib make it clear what the injunctions are. In either case he was guru wala Sikh.

Bhai Kanhaeya Ji took pahul from Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji and did sangat of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. There is no evidence to suggest that a Sikh who had taken pahul from one guru was required to take it again from the next guru. Again, he had received pahul and thus was guru wala. Dr. Trilochan Singh states that Sikhs who had taken charan pahul were not required to take Amrit again but it does not prove they were exempt. They were considered part of Khalsa. Sikhs these day are simply confusing themselves and undermining the importance of Amrit. Nirmalas, Udasis, Nihungs, Akalis etc simply meant one thing in early 18th century: Sikh or Nanakpanthi. Their roles were different but they were part of the same Khalsa brotherhood. No exceptions or exemptions.

One cannot be a Sikh without becoming guru wala. Whether a Sikh took charan pahul prior to 1699 or khanday ki pahul after 1699 did not matter as both went through the same process. However, after 1699 charan pahul was discarded all together and only five beloved ones performed Amrit ceremony. If you have any shred of evidence that any Sikh was exempt from taking Amrit and becoming guru wala or wearing any of the kakkars, please bring it forward.

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I know some nirmal and virkat brahm gianis that have not taken amrit and have merged with akal purakh without taking amrit. Of course amrit is important but it is not the only way....

As it comes down to this main question in life (as everyones aim is or should be this), can you still attain sachkand (merge with waheguru become puran) without kandei ki phaul the anwser is yes...

But 1 of the main reasons in taking amrit is if any sikh falls into hell by chance then he/she will be pulled out by their kes. (There is a sakhi on this where Guru Gobind singh showed someone who was doubting amrit and not keeping hair but I won't mention it now)

Also here is something for everyone to think about:

Who and what is khalsa?

Is becoming khalsa only for sikhs or can others in other religions become khalsa?

Also the points made by bijla singh ji are debatable as some gursikhs in the time of bhai nand lal did take kande ki phaul even if they had taken charan phaul before. But you can debate on whether they did not take amrit because they were pakhe with their religion and did not want to break their way of religion.

Also Mohinder Pal is right that bhai nand lal ji did not take amrit. There is actually a sakhi on this, but I will quickly summarise the points.

Bhai Nand Lal who was of different religion did not take amrit and had the same avasta (spirtual state) as Sant jarnail singh Khalsa bhindrawale of abnasi darshan (seeing waheguru everywhere and was sachkandi already). But the sikhs did not like this and they took him to Guru Gobind singh ji and guru gobind singh told him why you should take amrit about being pulled out of narak(as mentioned above) and bhai nand lal ji said if I fall in hell please grab me by my ears and pull me out lol. The Guru knew bhai nand lal Ji's avasta and didn't look down on him as the guru already knew he was already in liberated(sachkand) and had full kirpa from the guru ji regardless of him taking amrit.

..

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As it comes down to this main question in life (as everyones aim is or should be this), can you still attain sachkand (merge with waheguru become puran) without kandei ki phaul the anwser is yes...

No one can become guru wala without taking Amrit from Panj. Without True Guru no one can attain anything. Gurbani is clear on this and this is the Gurmat way of life.

But 1 of the main reasons in taking amrit is if any sikh falls into hell by chance then he/she will be pulled out by their kes. (There is a sakhi on this where Guru Gobind singh showed someone who was doubting amrit and not keeping hair but I won't mention it now)

Gursikhs are not concerned with heaven or hell. Gursikh life is to carry out the Will of Waheguru and follow Hukam of the Guru. Gursikhs don’t live pure way of life just for the sake of heaven. The sakhi that I have read and the way it is mentioned by sampardas is that Guru Sahib instructed Sikhs to keep hair so that in case they fall in hell, Guru sahib will grab their top knots and pull them out. Again, this is not a proof that can be accepted for your argument and sakhi is ridiculous.

Is becoming khalsa only for sikhs or can others in other religions become khalsa?

This is simply delusional thinking. Definition of Khalsa is very clear in Gurmat and Guru Sahib has given his own image, power and authority to Amritdhari Khalsa. Other religions don’t have the same concept.

But you can debate on whether they did not take amrit because they were pakhe with their religion and did not want to break their way of religion.

Guru Sahib started a distinct path and his aim was to unite the humanity under the same way of life. His entire life, mission and writings prove that he did not approve any other religion or way of life. Gurmat is love and does not believe in forcing others to leave their religion but this does not prove that Bhai Nand Lal Ji was not a Sikh. In fact, he was married to a Sikh woman who was a great influence on him. His own work and writings are ample proof that he was a Sikh. I do not know why you are judging him to be of other religion. Just like Bhai Gurdas Ji shed doubts about 6th Guru, Bhai Nand Lal Ji shed doubts about 10th Guru. Both played the same role.

There is actually a sakhi on this, but I will quickly summarise the points. Bhai Nand Lal who was of different religion did not take amrit and had the same avasta (spirtual state) as Sant jarnail singh Khalsa bhindrawale of abnasi darshan (seeing waheguru everywhere and was sachkandi already).

So the sakhi actually states that his avastha was as same as Sant Ji? Bhatt Vahis state that he took pahul and became a Sikh. What evidence do you have that he did not take Amrit and was a different religion? Again, his own work proves to whom he dedicated his life. Sakhis are not above Gurbani.

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Bijla Singh Ji, Rather than me answering your questions I suggest you go to gurmatveechar.com and listen to the purthan kathas. Especially from sant isher singh ji and the others listed there. Also some of the answers I addressed to your questions can be found by listening to Sant Jagjit Singh Harkowale. You can find the q&a listed on this forum by sunsingh.

By listening I bet you'll be surprised by finding out what khalsa is and who really is khalsa. Also you will discover what the meaning of satguru really is....

"No one can become guru wala without taking Amrit from Panj. Without True Guru no one can attain anything. Gurbani is clear on this and this is the Gurmat way of life."

Let me answer your questions with another question lol

Do you believe that no one was "guru wala" before Guru nanak dev ji took sargun form. Was bhagat kabeer Ji/ raja janak etc khalsa and guru wale? (as they were before guru nanak dev ji took sargun form)

"Gursikhs are not concerned with heaven or hell. Gursikh life is to carry out the Will of Waheguru and follow Hukam of the Guru. Gursikhs don’t live pure way of life just for the sake of heaven. The sakhi that I have read and the way it is mentioned by sampardas is that Guru Sahib instructed Sikhs to keep hair so that in case they fall in hell, Guru sahib will grab their top knots and pull them out. Again, this is not a proof that can be accepted for your argument and sakhi is ridiculous."

Actually there are 18 big naraks and charasi joon is narak as well. The definition of narak is different but it does exist ask a gian kandi he will recall as he can see this if you have doubts. There are many heavens as well but the aim of gursikh is to become lean with waheguru. But what you mention above that gursikhs should follow the hukum of waheguru is true. But that is not the final goal following hukum is required but that is one of the fundamentals needed to self realise. (Look at PJS veer ji posts about sant isher singh on self realisation). But after self realisation the aim of gursikh is to merge with akal purak the final contemplation on self.

Actually the sakhis are not just from standard katha vachiks or so called professors that have katabi gian only. They are actually from self realised souls (brahm gianis), so it would be wise to think before you say they are ridiculous.

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