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The Truth About Anhad Shabad In Gurbani!


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Luckysingh veer and osingh veer are both correct. However i believe we are talking about different stages. Luckysingh veer, shabad surat- focus on dhuni of shabad is a beginning stage slowly one naturally transcendent to stage of nirvkalap samadhi - sunn samadhi is highest stage (please note sunn should not be confused with shuniya of nothingness/emptiness)- nirvkalap samadhi is thoughtless awareness/thoughtless supreme consciousness state. It also called anubhav parkash/bhramgyan avastha.

Antar sunan bar sunan taribhavan sunn masunnan.
The absolute Lord is deep within; the absolute Lord is outside us as well. The absolute Lord totally fills the three worlds.

Chauthe sunnai jo nar janai ta ko o pap na punan.
One who knows the Lord in the fourth state, is not subject to virtue or vice.

As a beginner cannot focus on nirvakalp smadhi (thoughtless awareness state) as his mind is pretty sargun or not moulded in stay in nirgun gyan avastha. According to Gurmat, beginner has to focus on shabad and its dhuni so shabad take one consciousness to upper realm and if one requires help with concentration to even focus on shabad only or its dhuni, one can concentrate to even more beginning stage - gur ki morat man mein dhyan (sargun), gur ka mantar gur ka shabad mantar man maan || (shuksham towards nirgun). Shabad dhuni element is part of shukhsam mandal, in advance stages- shabad/dhuni/dasam dwar will cease to exit, however the nirgun gyan which shabad is pointing to stays nothing else also called- anubhav parkash/nirvkalap samadhi/bhramgyan.

Please take a look at this thread: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/68495-nirvkaalaap-saamadhi/page-1 , also listen to sant isher singh ji rara sahib were everything explained in stages: http://www.sikhroots.com/audio/index.php?q=f&f=%2FLectures%2FSant+Baba+Isher+singh+Ji+-+Rara+Sahib%2FSant+Baba+Isher+Singh+Ji+Rara+Sahib+-+Atmik+Bachan

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Osinghji, I agree with your post totally.

I am not denying the method you mention and I do remember seeing the references and advice you mention.

I really don't know what stage or level I'm at, but I don't think I'm advanced or anything. However, I do remember that I used to listen to the sound when I first started. I also remember having some difficulty in trying to move to the mental and silent manas stage.

At that time I would also wonder if I was doing it correctly.

Then all of a sudden I found that if I empty my mind completely and get rid of all the clutter and then bring the focus on just the ONE Akaal purakh, that I could go into mental simran stage much easier. -I'm not sure if this came with time and practice, but I somehow felt that I had been doing it wrong!!!

-Like I say, I don't know if I had climbed up the simran ladder, but all of a sudden I felt that instead of focusing on the sound or vibration, I just had to focus on the 'nothingness' and be completely thoughtless. Then I would find I was doing deep, mental and silent simran.

This was the reason that I advise others to focus on this nothingness,- I hope you understand as I'm not trying to go against what you say. Maybe this was something that came with time and that all the time I was listening and feeling my vibration, it was helping me to become thoughtless.

- I'm not sure and I honestly can't answer that.

I'm sorry if you felt that I was speaking against your principles as that was not my intention.

I hope you understand why I felt that the secet is to clear and empty your mind and focus on nothingness, because now when I do that, then automatically all that is left is Akaal purakh because you can't clear his dhian from your mind!

Now, I find it quite easy to go into deep mental and silent simran and I can usually do it within seconds!

Usually I don't have to be audible for any longer than a minute, but at the same time I become thoughtless by focusing on the void of nothingness, this leaves me with just the one thought for the ONE.

Somehow with intuiton, this all made sense to me because before creation there was just the ONE Waheguru and this void. So if you pay attention to the void, it soon transorms into ALL Him.

It is kind of difficult to explain because when I look back, I can't understand why it was difficult to move on from the listening stage !!

The only explanation I can come with is that I wasn't doing it properly or I wasn't trying to be thoughtless!

I think that as Neo ji has stated it is about different stages.- although I have NEVER considered myself as moving up the ladder but simply as finding the right way through practice.

It is ALL with his grace that we get on the right track, no matter which station or platform we join the train.

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Veer LuckySingh jeeo, please do not apologise, we are all trying to find the correct jugti (technique) of simran so we can get closer to AkaalPurakh.

Daas agrees 100% with you that we must clear our minds of external thoughts when doing simran, bhai randhir singh jee mentions that during ishnaan at amritvela it is vital that we do path/simran and make sure our minds do not wonder, this way our minds will be more prepared to do simran. To clear the minds of external thoughts we have the ideal hathiyaars (weapons) of Gurbani and Gurmantar. From the moment we get up amritvela until we get ready for path/simran we must make sure our minds are not imbued in thoughts other than Naam and Baani.

Daas does not agree with your statement on focusing on a "void". You mention on focusing on AkaalPurakh through focusing on a void first, this I do not agree with and is not sanctioned by Gurbani. Surely we must follow Gurbani which mentions focusing on the dhuni of Naam.

What is greater than the dhuni of Naam! Naam is Wahiguru!

Focusing on void is part of other mats such as Buddhism but not Gurmat as far as daas understands.

I think when you say focus on "nothingness/void" you mean eliminating external thoughts in the mind which daas agrees with.

The mind of the Gurmuh is never "empty/void", forever Naam and Baani resound in the Gurmukh mind because Naam and Baani are the moorat (form) of AkaalPurakh for Gurmukhs.

By the way it is great to hear that a fellow Gurmukh is engaged in and has shaunk (interest) in japping Naam.

Daas may have made many mistakes above, simran is an advanced subject and only advanced students can really do vichaar on this subject.

May Guru Sahib Bless us with Naam Kamaee.

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Guest dasguruka

"I'm not sure how gurmat simran can be defined as focusing on sound only !"

Ang 943:

Shabad Guru, Surat Dhun Chela<

In Gurbani quoted above, Guru Nanak Dev jee is giving the updesh (lesson) that Shabad (Naam) is Guru and the Surat is the disciple of the Dhuni of the Guru (Naam). Here is clear bachan from Gurbani advising us to focus our surat (concentration/focus) on the dhuni (sound) of Gurmantar (Naam given by Panj Pyare at Amrit Sanchar). Here Guru Sahib has used the example of Guru and disciple (chela) for Naam and Surat.

In Jap jee Sahib bani that we recite daily, there comes the suneeai paurees i.e. suneeai sidh peer sun nath, suneeai dharat dhaval aakaash......

These paurees are indicating the importance of listening to and the rewards of listening to Naam.

Listening to the dhuni of Naam is sanctioned by Gurmat and many Gurmukh piare of high avastha.

Along with listening to the dhuni (sound) of naam, we must also have pyaar (love) and faith. We must japp naam with pyaar and faith.

I cannot recall any Gurmukhs advising focusing on a "void" or "nothingness" nor do I think Gurbani sanctions this. Rather daas would advise controlling the mind by blocking all other thoughts other than Naam and Gurbani entering the mind. One should make an effort to block external thoughts entering the mind during simran/paath.

A Gurmukh is forever in union with Parmeshar than how can their mind be "empty". Rather their mind is imbued in Naam and Gurbani.

Daas has read and heard about advanced stages in which naam is heard in the hirdai (heart) and naabhi (navel). However we should not try and focus our minds on these regions. It is best to japp naam with rasna (tongue) and listen to the dhuni. From this base everything else will happen automatically. We must learn to walk before we can run. The advanced stages of naam have been reached by first doing extensive and intense Naam Simran with rasna.

Also we can employ our surat to listen to naam internally, this is not an advanced stage but is important as we must also recite naam internally because it not always possible to japp naam in audible manner.

Bhul Chuk Maaf jee.

Thank You for your contribution in the discussion! I was confused because recently I had been doing paath just with my surat only and i could hear the vibrations and then I came across this post which made me doubt if I was doing it right! This just shows that there is are lots of treasures in the body and if someone discovers something by chance then they may start a whole new panth based on their discoveries! This also shows that regardless of the many ways out there to do simran we should stick with Gurmat because it leads to Naam Di Daat. Its easy to get carried away by following the easier paths; like bhai Sahib said he had to bring his surti to the lower realms and only then he could hear the anhad shabad. Maybe the two ways do crossover somewhere but naam simran is the correct way to go!

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osingh you are quite right that this is a deep subject. Actually, in fact one cannot discuss this topic theologically 100 percent only but one also have to bring gurbani, gurmat sidhant, along with various saints from all different jatha and samparda divine expereinces.

There are various ways to naam jap, with that being said regardless of different method, shabad surat remains central theme of it. Please see link http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/67671-meditation-techniques/ for more info, another way of naam jap which is swas gras- synchorinzing shabad with your breath- vahi - inhale and exhale guru and in over time naturally invoking- gurmukh rom rom har dhaivaie from navel.

It's imperative for everyone (including me off course) the passion we use to discuss these important topics use the same passion to do simran. Personally speaking in the past for months, i have spent many months talking about such topics without actually doing simran consistently pro-actively every day, just recently from past a year or so with maharaj kirpa i have been consistently doing simran, trying to do self-reflection with my mind, trying to do vichar with bibek etc, i have been feeling great by maharaj kirpa so i encourage everyone not only just discuss this topic not just contemplate on drinking water from the ocean while standing off-shore, just jump right in the ocean..!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Focusing on void is part of other mats such as Buddhism but not Gurmat as far as daas understands.

I think when you say focus on "nothingness/void" you mean eliminating external thoughts in the mind which daas agrees with.

Osinghji, I think you are correct in this manner.

I have just looked into this 'void' focus used in other meditation yogas and I realise that is NOT gurmat or exactly what i'm talking about.

I honestly felt that I was trying to describe an easier method of doing it and I realise that I am just infact 'eliminating all thoughts and feelings in an instance and bringing ALL focus onto Waheguru.

I also realise that my way of description can give the wrong impression because the void is not the idea at all in gurmat.

It is quite difficult to describe how exactly these thoughts get removed but one thing is for sure and that is 'Amrit Vela'

I can confirm that no matter what time of day I try to do simran, nothing comes anywhere near to amrit vela. The anand you get at that heavenly time is just not possible at any other time in my current day to day life. I also find it is the majic hour where I can easily remove all my external thoughts completely in a flash much easier.

If I ever miss it at amrit vela or it is done after 5.30 am, then I feel regret all day long. Because personally, I feel that I should be up by 3am so that I can do at least 2 to 2.5 hours.

I also feel that it has transformed me and helped mould me into a better and calmer person. In fact, I worry so little about anything that even if something disastrous is going on in my life, I am so calm and co-ordinated that my wife worries if something is actually wrong with me!! - She feels worried about why I am not worried or distessed !!!!

My biggest regret is why I didn't start simran a long time ago. I really wish that I had gone this way earlier in my past as I wouldn't have made the same mistakes.

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Veer LuckSingh99 jeeo, when i mention that using surti is not an advanced stage I was not talking about your avastha (spiritual level), daas has no idea what stage you are at and you could very well be at an advanced stage. Daas was talking about the jugti (technique) of using surti is not advanced in itself. Infact beginners must use surti to do path and simran. We do not always have a gutka sahib in hand and we cannot just do simran everywhere (i.e. shopping, doctors office, work........) When we cannot do paath with rasna (tongue) then this is ideal time to do paath and simran internally, then we can focus on the internal dhuni (sound) of naam and Gurbani.

Daas is pleased that you agree focusing on void is not part of Gurmat. Instead eliminating external thoughts and focusing on dhuni of Naam and Gurbani is part of Gurmat.

Daas agrees that amritvela abhiyaas is vital and brings the most anand, daas will even say that we cannot claim that we are Gursikhs if we do not do Naam simran at amritvela. Especially now in winter months, the nights are long and we should definitely strive to do simran and Gurbani path while the stars and moon are shining! When one has the great fortune of doing Naam-Gurbani at amritvela then one finds it easier to do simran during the daytime. Satguru Mehar Karan.

Daas agrees with veer Neo Singh jee in that although vichaar on Naam Simran is important in the end we will must actually do simran. Bhai Raghbir Singh jee Bir gives the example of swimming, we can learn about swimming and various techniques in books but until we actually get into the water we will ever be able to swim.

What I have have written above applies to me also, daas has no kamaee (spiritual earnings), daas does benti to Guru Sahib to bless his children with Naam Simran.

Maybe this shabad will inspire us to japp naam at amritvela:

Ang 459 -

bhinnee rainreeea chaamkan taare,

jaageh sant janaa mere raam pyare.

When the night is wet with dew and the stars are shining,

The beloved Gurmukh Sants of Raam (God) remain awake.

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