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.- Prabhjot Singh -.

.. Concept Of Kaal Purakh In Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji ..

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GPS    1,310

Kal is no different than waheguru. God is called by many names in Gurbani. When he brings us up, he

is called Gopal.When he kind to us we call him dayal. When he brings death to us he is called kal.

That is what Guru sahib has cleared in the beginning of Jaap sahib.

ਤ੍ਵ ਸਰਬ ਨਾਮ ਕਥੈ ਕਵਨ ਕਰਮ ਨਾਮ ਬਰਣਤ ਸੁਮਤਿ ॥੧॥

त्व सरब नाम कथै कवन करम नाम बरणत सुमति ॥१॥

Who can express all of your names, that is why wise people have called you by functional names.

Jaap sahib.

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alias    127

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear GPS Jee!

Gurdev bows to Kaalee saying this.

ਨਮੋ ਦੁਸਟ ਦੋਖਾਰਦਨੀ ਰੂਪ ਕਾਲੀ ॥

नमो दुसट दोखारदनी रूप काली ॥

Thou art the destroyer of tyrants in the manifestation of Kali, I salute Thee.

Kaalee must be Waheguru. Or do you think that Gurdev bowed in front of someone else also than the primal Waheguru?

Balbir Singh

this dont mean that kali is God/waheguru. this means that god created kali to kill off the dusht. jus like taihee durga saaj kai, daintaaa da naas karaaya.

and guruji bows to God, who created kaali to naas the demons.

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alias    127

Kal is no different than waheguru. God is called by many names in Gurbani. When he brings us up, he

is called Gopal.When he kind to us we call him dayal. When he brings death to us he is called kal.

That is what Guru sahib has cleared in the beginning of Jaap sahib.

ਤ੍ਵ ਸਰਬ ਨਾਮ ਕਥੈ ਕਵਨ ਕਰਮ ਨਾਮ ਬਰਣਤ ਸੁਮਤਿ ॥੧॥

त्व सरब नाम कथै कवन करम नाम बरणत सुमति ॥१॥

Who can express all of your names, that is why wise people have called you by functional names.

Jaap sahib.

jus to add to what veera above had said, in DG - bachittar naatak, there is a savayya that says >

>>

AOr sukwl sBY bs kwl ky eyk hI kwl Akwl sdw hY ] 84]

<<

meaning that kaal, and akaal are one of the same.

the duality of the world is there. there is this debate bout kaal and akaal, but we dont realise that they are both the same thing.

guru ji says, paap, pun doe ek samaana

paapa pun bhi saar na jaanai

kanchan loh samaan

ustat nindya naahin jai..

all these tuks show us the duality, the wandrous play, bachittak naatak of the universe.

it is for this reason guuru says, doe kar jor karo ardas / (slash) / mango ik daana etc..

also, we do not waa go to heaven nor hell. its not the aim for sikhs to go to heaven. we go through heaven nad mearge back into God himself.

guru ji says, anik tapsya karhe ahangkar, >>>narak surag fir fir avtaar<<<.

we will be forever in the tre bhavan chakar of sur nar asur. expanding this chakar of 'nar', we get the tre bhavan. and then further expansion, we get the maya type chakar within ourselves.

to mve away from dubidha, and bharam, is what we need to do. to do that ardaas that will finish the duality through suchi benti. then its all annand :feelingfree:

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GPS    1,310

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I honestly suggest you as a Sikh brother, please learn basic Punjabi. If you study this Pankiti carefully, no where does it say Kal and Akal are the same. Kal means death. Let's look at it thoroughly:

ਔਰ ਸੁਕਾਲ ਸਭੈ ਬਸ ਕਾਲ ਕੇ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕਾਲ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਦਾ ਹੈ || ੮੪|| What Guroo Saaheb is really saying is that everyone in this world faces death, but only Vaheguroo is exempt from Kaal (death), because Vaaheguroo ji is "Akaal" (free from death). Akaal is referring to Vaheguroo ji here alone. There are many names for Vaheguroo used extensively in Gurbani, but that does not mean we need to try to split Vaheguroo, all these names refer to the one Akaal Purakh ie Vaheguroo. The beliefs some people harbor are no different than the hindu beliefs of devi-devtay, according to me. Let's ponder upon this following Gurbani Pankiti:

ਪੂਜਹੁ ਰਾਮੁ ਏਕੁ ਹੀ ਦੇਵਾ ||

For Gursikhs, there is only one Deva (God), and that is Guru-Akaal Purakh Vaheguroo.

As for "Namo Kaal Kaaley" in Siri Jaap Sahib ji, this Tuk challenges Hindu belief of Shiv being the symbol of Death (Kaal). Hindus believe it is Shiv who is responsible for the death of all beings. But Guroo Gobind Singh jee Mahaaraaj has called Vaaheguroo "Kaal Kaaley", meaning He is even above and beyond Shiv, for Vaaheguroo ji is "Sarb Shaktee Shaalee". No where in Gurbani does the term "Kaal Purakh" appear. Sikhs have always called Vaaheguroo "Akaal Purakh"(the death free Supreme Being). The term "Kaal Purakh" would then mean one who is not exempt from death (kaal), therefore challenges Guroo Sahib, Gurmat.

bhulan chukan di khima bakhshni

daas;

Jaspreet Singh

I honestly suggest to you that please read the pankti carefully and in the below mentioned kal is referred to as waheguru .

ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕਾਲ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਦਾ ਹੈ

Also to be deluded of your lingering doubt please read beginning of bachitra Natak

that starts with " Sri Kal ju ki ustat". It should leave no doubt in anyone's mind what

is kal. So there is no difference between kal and akal. One is specification of waheguru

the other is functional name of waheguru.

Read also invocation of chaubis avtar for more clarification.

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GPS    1,310

ਨਮੋ ਕਾਲ ਕਾਲੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤਸਤੁ ਦਿਆਲੇ ॥

नमो काल काले ॥ नमसतसतु दिआले ॥

Salutation to Thee O Death-destroyer Lord! Salutation to Thee O Beneficent Lord!

ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲੇ ॥ ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਪਾਲੇ ॥੨੦॥

नमो सरब काले ॥ नमो सरब पाले ॥२०॥

Salutation to Thee O Annihilator Lord! Salutation to Thee O All-sustainer Lord!20

ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲੇ ॥ ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਦਿਆਲੇ ॥

नमो सरब काले ॥ नमो सरब दिआले ॥

Salutation to Thee O All-destroyer Lord! Salutation to Thee O Entirely Generous Lord!

Jaap sahib, dasam Granth

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GPS    1,310

this dont mean that kali is God/waheguru. this means that god created kali to kill off the dusht. jus like taihee durga saaj kai, daintaaa da naas karaaya.

and guruji bows to God, who created kaali to naas the demons.

Alias ji

You are absolutely correct.

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Kaljug Singh    37

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I honestly suggest you as a Sikh brother, please learn basic Punjabi. If you study this Pankiti carefully, no where does it say Kal and Akal are the same. Kal means death. Let's look at it thoroughly:

ਔਰ ਸੁਕਾਲ ਸਭੈ ਬਸ ਕਾਲ ਕੇ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕਾਲ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਦਾ ਹੈ || ੮੪|| W

For someone telling other people to learn Punjabi, you sure have little to no knowledge of the language itself.

You say "no where does it say Kal and Akal are the same" and then quote the pankti ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕਾਲ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਦਾ ਹੈ in the same sentence. You say, "What Guroo Saaheb is really saying...". Thanks, but we don't need you or your thick kala afghani anti-Dasam Granth brigade telling us what Guru Sahib really meant when it is clear as day.

Do you believe the entirety of Sri Dasam Granth is Gurbani? Please answer with a clear yes or no, there is no need to dissemble.

Regards,

K.

PS If you tell me to learn Punjabi or tell me to calm down, I'm going to have to hunt you down and eat your brain cell.

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GPS    1,310

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Calm down, let's talk with at least some degree of respect. NO need to snap at me or anyone over the issue or talk of Dasam Granth. Calm down. The reason Siri Guru jee has referred Vaheguru as "Kaal" is because Vaheguru is the strongest entity. No one can out beat Vaheguru. He alone is responsible and capable for the death of all. But He Himself does not face "Kaal", because he is "Akaal". And yes you are right in saying "One is specification of waheguru the other is functional name of waheguru."

PS learn Punjabi

I never wrote that akal faces death. Did I? If so, show me. if dayal is referred to as waheguru then what problem you have with kaal being

referred as waheguru? Just because you read somewhere people referring to kaal in derogatory terms.

Waheguru is creator as well as destroyer. As a destroyer he has been called as kal. I am yet to hear any reference from gurbani from you terming kaal

as something other than waheguru. Quote Gurbani to prove your point.Mere talks will not prove anything.

ਕਾਲ ਰੂਪ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਭਨੈਬੋ ॥

काल रूप भगवान भनैबो ॥

The Lord, Who is known as KAL;

ਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਲੀਨ ਜਗਤਿ ਸਭ ਹ੍ਵੈਬੋ ॥੩੪॥

ता महि लीन जगति सभ ह्वैबो ॥३४॥

All the world will merge in Him.34.

Chaubis avtar, dasam granth

Note: you seem to have very thick head. Do not you read kal being referred as destroyer lord? Then what is the point you are

arguing about.Give counter reference from Gurbani either SGGS ji or Dasam Granth sahib.

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Kaljug Singh    37

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You asked me:

Do you believe the entirety of Sri Dasam Granth is Gurbani? Please answer with a clear yes or no, there is no need to dissemble.

Rather, do I first believe in Guru Granth Sahib jee? I'm still trying to do that before I'm able to believe Satguru Patshah fully. It seems to me you are a very high Avastha Chardikala Gursikh, therefore, you have full faith in Guru Sahib. I'm glad for you, hope to become like you some day. Vaheguru. Wow. I'm in shock. Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru.

On one side we say Vaheguru is Akaal Purakh, but then again we're labeling Him as "Kaal Purakh"? Kaal means death, but Vaheguru is free from the cycle of births and deaths. Vaheguru has always been there, He is Aadh Sach, Jugaad, Hai Bhi Sach.

Funny, before the kala afghana group started this fuss over Dasam Granth, no one really had a general idea on this issue or topic, but the minute they sparked debates, we Sikhs jumped on the steam boat and started boasting over Dasam Granth, but we had no Jeevans.

If in Gurbani it says "Moorkhai Naal Naa Lujhiai" (Asa Ki Vaar), then what is the point over fighting with those who don't believe in Dasam Granth, meaning the kala afghana lobby. Do you really think they only doubt Dasam Granth? They doubt everything associated with Gurmat. Dasam Granth is just one aspect or part of Sikhi. There are many arms and legs of Gurmat. I don't need to have strong views as you, meaning I don't need to spark debates and go hunting for brain cells, and become a blood thirsty creature, just because someone does not believe Dasam Granth and questions it. Because that person is a moorakh, so there's no need in arguing with an moorakh. I won't talk anymore, I'll let your group or gang talk about this topic, seems like there is no love or respect for people here. Vaheguru. Take care..

bhulan chukan di khima bakhshni

Vaheguru ji kakhalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh!!!

Yep, I didn't think you were going to answer the question with any degree of honesty and without dissembling.

Ciao,

K.

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GPS    1,310
On one side we say Vaheguru is Akaal Purakh, but then again we're labeling Him as "Kaal Purakh"? Kaal means death, but Vaheguru is free from the cycle of births and deaths. Vaheguru has always been there, He is Aadh Sach, Jugaad, Hai Bhi Sach.

When he is referred as kaal or kaal purakh it does not mean that he dies. It means he is destroyer Lord or he brings

death to us, his creation. he is also called dayal or per you as dayal purakh, gopal purakh etc.? Anything within space

and time has to face end. God known as kaal brings that to us.

I hope you get it.

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GPS    1,310
I won't talk anymore, I'll let your group or gang talk about this topic, seems like there is no love or respect for people here. Vaheguru. Take care..

No one has disrespected you. Only clarifications have been sought. Instead of giving clarifications

you choose to run away. That is what revisionists do.

Do not you read kaal being referred as destroyer God in Dasam granth sahib. Then what is your doubt.

Keep in mind that we are mere mortals and do not have head to misinterpret writings of Guru sahiban.

Writings of all Gurus from ist to tenth is gurbani and we respect those as word of God.

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