Did Guru Gobind Singh Ji Worship Shiva ?

[Guest amar_jkp]

I am getting mssages from Hindu fanatic that God of Guru Gobind Singh ji is Shiva . He claims that in chupai shahib it states "khao maha dev sadah shiv .

I need help to answer him back .

Plzzzzzzz post on this topic .

[ms514]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਨ੍ਰਿਬਿਕਾਰ ਨ੍ਰਿਲੰਭ ॥ ਆਦਿ ਅਨੀਲ ਅਨਾਦਿ ਅਸੰਭ ॥

निरंकार न्रिबिकार न्रिल्मभ ॥ आदि अनील अनादि अस्मभ ॥

The Lord is Formless, Sinless and shelterless: He is the Primal Power, Blemishlless, Behinningless and Unborn;

ਤਾਕਾ ਮੂੜ੍ਹ ਉਚਾਰਤ ਭੇਦਾ ॥ ਜਾਕੋ ਭੇਵ ਨ ਪਾਵਤ ਬੇਦਾ ॥੩੯੧॥

ताका मूड़्ह उचारत भेदा ॥ जाको भेव न पावत बेदा ॥३९१॥

The fool claims boastfully about the knowledge of His secrets, which even the Vedas do not know.391.

ਤਾਕੌ ਕਰਿ ਪਾਹਨ ਅਨੁਮਾਨਤ ॥ ਮਹਾਂ ਮੂੜ੍ਹ ਕਛੁ ਭੇਦ ਨ ਜਾਨਤ ॥

ताकौ करि पाहन अनुमानत ॥ महां मूड़्ह कछु भेद न जानत ॥

The fool considers Him a stone, but the great fool does not know any secret;

ਮਹਾਂਦੇਵ ਕੌ ਕਹਤ ਸਦਾ ਸ਼ਿਵ ॥ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਕਾ ਚੀਨਤ ਨਹਿ ਭਿਵ ॥੩੯੨॥

महांदेव कौ कहत सदा शिव ॥ निरंकार का चीनत नहि भिव ॥३९२॥

He calls Shiva "The Eternal Lord, "but he does not know the secret of the Formless Lord.392.

ਆਪੁ ਆਪੁਨੀ ਬੁਧਿ ਹੈ ਜੇਤੀ ॥ ਬਰਨਤ ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਤੁਹਿ ਤੇਤੀ ॥

आपु आपुनी बुधि है जेती ॥ बरनत भिंन भिंन तुहि तेती ॥

According to one;s won intellect, one describes Thee differently;

ਤੁਮਰਾ ਲਖਾ ਨ ਜਾਇ ਪਸਾਰਾ ॥ ਕਿਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਸਜਾ ਪ੍ਰਥਮ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥੩੯੩॥

तुमरा लखा न जाइ पसारा ॥ किह बिधि सजा प्रथम संसारा ॥३९३॥

The limits of Thy creation cannot be known and how the world was fashioned in the beginning?393.

(www.sridasam.org)

Hindi provided for your friend. The message from the verses states that many claim to know God - through claims of Vedic knowledge, through worshipping stones, through considering the One Almighty to be Mahadev (that devta who is also called Shiva). This passage describes how people who claim to know the Almighty are all subjecting the Almighty to their limited intrepretations, but in reality, the Almighty is much greater than their human intellect and knowledge.

Then, you have Ganjnama by Bhai Nand Lal Sahib, which is in praise of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, that nails the coffin shut. While praising Guru Sahib, Bhai Nand Lal Ji writes:

SAD HAZAARAAN SULS-O SUDS KHIDMAT GUZEEN

V SAD HAZAARAAN RUBEH-O TISYA KHAAK NASHIN

Lacs of gods and shastras have chosen to serve him (Guru Gobind Singh Ji); lacs of Vedas and heavens are under his command.

SAD HAZAARAAN ASHR-O SULS-O SULSOON SITA-INDEH-E BARGAAHASH

SAD HAZAARAAN EESHAR-O BRAHMAA V ARSH-O KURSI KHAHIND-EH-E PANAAHASH

Lacs of gods and angels praise the splendor of his (Guru Gobind Singh Ji) palace; lacs of gods like ***Shiv*** and Brahama are wishing to be near his throne for protection.

http://zafarnama.com/Download/ganjnama.pdf

So no, Guru Sahib did not worship Shiva - it was the other way around. Same for Chandi/Durga. Those who claim that Guru Sahib worshipped Chandi to make the Khalsa should do well to remember that the same Durga was the red clothed woman who used to sweep Guru Nanak's Dharamshala and collect the Charan Dhoor of the Sadh Sangat and used that to bestow blessings upon those who worshipped her.

[Guest Bloom]

Also In My Opinion,

The Hindu Fanatic Is Very Foolish. He Does Not Even Go The Next Sri Pangtee? He Does Not Even Go The Prior Sri Pangtees?

LOL.

Even The Sri Pangtees He Is Quoting (Attempted English Transliteration) Are :

Mahadev Ko Kehat Sada Shiv. Nirankaar Ka Cheenat Naheh Bhiv.

English Reflection: Those Who Consider Mahadev (In The Context Here Of That Shiva) As The Powerful Lord; They Have No Clue Of The True Formless Lord. (In Other Words: Ignorant People Consider Shiva As The Lord).

Also, You Can Refer To Sri Chopai Sahib, It is Quite Clear. Sri Chopai Sahib Makes It Quite Clear That Shiva Is Within The Plays of Kaal (Death and Destruction: Within Time). In Other Words, Shiva Is NOT The Lord. As Shown Above, The Very Next Pangtee After Which The Hindu Fanatic Quoted, It Very Clearly Shows That Ignorant People Consider and Call Mahadev (That Shiva In This Context) The Lord.

Understand That Names Can Be Used in Different Contexts. For Example: Raam. Raam Can Refer To Akaal Purakhs Form That Is Within All; Or Can Be Used In The Context To Refer To Someone Named Raam. So Here Shiva Is Being Used In Context of The Shiva of Brahma/Vishnu/Shiva. But The True Shiv, The True All Powerful Lord, Is Akaal Purakh.

Here Dasam Patshah Is Showing That Ignorant People Consider Shiva (Of Brahma/Vishnu/Shiva) As The Lord.

Bhul Chuk Mauf.

Dhan Dhan MahaRaajan Deh MahaRaaj Dhan Sri GuruGranth Sahib Ji Dhan!!!!!

Dhan Dhan Sri Dasam Patshah Bani Dhan Dhan Sri DasamGranth Sahib Ji Dhan!!!!!

Dhan Dhan Jeevanee RehitVaan Panj Pyareh, Khande-Pahul Amrit, and Khalsa Rehit!!!!!

Dhan Dhan Ang Sang Sri Panj Kakaars Sahib!!!!! Dhan Dhan Being Saved From Bajjar Kureits!!!!!

Dhan Dhan Amrit Vela!!!!! Dhan Dhan Simran!!!!! Dhan Dhan NishKhaam Seva!!!!!

Dhan Dhan 7 Baanee NitNem!!!!! Dhan Dhan Sehaj Paaths!!!!!

Dhan Dhan Pooran BrahmGyaanee Bhai Gurdas Ji Baanee!!!!!

Dhan Dhan Pooran BrahmGyaanee Bhai Nand Lal Singh Ji Baanee!!!!!

Dhan Dhan Pooran BrahmGyaanee Bhai Gurdas Singh Ji Baanee!!!!!

Dhan Dhan Dhan RehitNaamaas of Khalsa!!!!!

Dhan Dhan BrahmGyaan Baanee in The Palace of Guru Gobind Singh Ji!!!!!

Dhan Dhan Gurus' Raags and Chands!!!!! Dhan Dhan Gurus' Instruments!!!!!

Dhan Dhan Gurus' Vegetarian/Vegan Langar That Feeds and Will Feed the World!!!!!

Dhan Dhan Loving Shastars of Khalsa!!!!! Dhan Dhan Gurus' Nishaan Sahib Flag and Nagaaraa!!!!!

Dhan Dhan ENTIRE Palace of Guru Gobind Singh Ji!!!!!

Dhan Dhan True Khalsa Dharma!!!!! Dhan Dhan True Khalsa Dharma Aashikhs!!!!!

[TejiKaur]

WaheGuru Ji

i try to avoid religous debates esp with ppl who r trying to distort Sikhi but sometimes its unavoidable and ppl wont leave u alone so i had that a little while ago

look at the comments on my youtube profile and read them and u will see

this is a hindu man ten plus years elder than me

he wrote some crap and then i didnt reply first few times but later i had too

http://www.youtube.com/tejikaur

read down a couple of Angs that is just stuff from Guru Granth Sahib ji which automatically denounces the bascis of Hinduism (polytheism, rituals, the river ganges, fasting, te caste system, hindu scriptures ect..) and shows it as a seperate faith

i didnt want to argue with him so i soley used bani

but yeah above Guru Ji says

The fool does not know the difference between God and a stone , He (this fool) calls the great lord shiv but does not know the secrets of the etternal Lord

In Jaap Sahib Guru Gobind Singh Ji says Alaah Hai, and Razak Raheem, does this mean he worshipped the Muslim God Allah? No In Akal Ustat Guru Ji explains that there is only one formless lord above the mosque and mandir . Guru Ji says

ram raheem puran koran anek kahay mat ik na manyo- ram raheem puranas the koran say many things but i dont believe in even one of their teachings

he then makes it clear in the dohra that he has abandoned all these doors all this duality to worship you (the one Lord) alone

bottom line - many places exist where Guru Ji makes it clear that there is noone but one akal purakh and Guru Gobind Singh calls his mission that of idol smasher (not literally he would never break idols/ Maharaj had respect but he smashed the ideas of duality in Hinduism)

In Sawaiya Sahib Guru Ji talks about the ridicoulesneess of the shiv ling- Kahoon lai pahun pooj dario sir kahoon lai ling gare latkaro - and tells us that the world is lost wandering is such rituals and they lose on the mystery of the formless Lord

in Shabad Hazare Patsahi 10- Guru Ji boldly states not to recognize anyother but the one Lord

Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Dasam Pita Jis Bani both state this countless times

ur friend needs to get his head out of his...............use your imagination

sada bhull chukk maaf karna ji

WaheGuru Ji Kaa Khalsa

WaheGuru Ji Kee Fateh

[GPS]

Chandi is described as Kirpan, symbol of akal purakh, in Chandi di vaar.

ਸੱਟ ਪਈ ਜਮਧਾਣੀ ਦਲਾਂ ਮੁਕਾਬਲਾ ॥

स्ट पई जमधाणी दलां मुकाबला ॥

When the trumpet, enveloped by the hide of the male buffalo, the vehicle of Yama, sounded, the armies attacked each other.

ਧੂਹਿ ਲਈ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਣੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਮਿਆਨ ਤੇ ॥

धूहि लई क्रिपाणी दुरगा मिआन ते ॥

Durga pulled her sword from the scabbard.

ਚੰਡੀ ਰਾਕਸਿ ਖਾਣੀ ਵਾਹੀ ਦੈਤ ਨੂੰ ॥

चंडी राकसि खाणी वाही दैत नूं ॥

She struck the demon with that Chandi, the devourer of demons (that is the sword).

ਕੋਪਰ ਚੂਰਿ ਚਵਾਣੀ ਲੱਥੀ ਕਰਗ ਲੈ ॥

कोपर चूरि चवाणी ल्थी करग लै ॥

It broke the skull and face into pieces and pierced through the skeleton.

Chandi di vaar

Banis of dasam Granth are of metaphorical nature and hard for ignorant to understand

And furtehr

ਪਾਖਰ ਤੁਰਾ ਪਲਾਣੀ ਰੜਕੀ ਧਰਤਿ ਜਾਇ ॥

पाखर तुरा पलाणी रड़की धरति जाइ ॥

And it further pierced through the saddle and caparison of the horse, and struck on the earth supported by the Bull (Dhaul).

ਲੈਦੀ ਅਘਾ ਸਿਧਾਣੀ ਸਿੰਗਾਂ ਧਉਲ ਦਿਆਂ ॥

लैदी अघा सिधाणी सिंगां धउल दिआं ॥

It moved further and struck the horns of the Bull.

ਕੂਰਮ ਸਿਰ ਲਹਿਲਾਣੀ ਦੁਸਮਨ ਮਾਰਿ ਕੈ ॥

कूरम सिर लहिलाणी दुसमन मारि कै ॥

Then it struck on the Tortoise supporting the Bull and thus killing the enemy.

ਵੱਢੇ ਗਨ ਤਿਖਾਣੀ ਮੂਏ ਖੇਤ ਵਿਚ ॥

व्ढे गन तिखाणी मूए खेत विच ॥

The demons are lying dead in the battlefield like the pieces of wood sawed by the carpenter.

ਰਣ ਵਿਚ ਘੱਤੀ ਘਾਣੀ ਲੋਹੂ ਮਿਝ ਦੀ ॥

रण विच घ्ती घाणी लोहू मिझ दी ॥

The press of blood and marrow has been set in motion in the battlefield.

ਚਾਰੇ ਜੁਗ ਕਹਾਣੀ ਚਲਗਿ ਤੇਗ ਦੀ ॥

चारे जुग कहाणी चलगि तेग दी ॥

The story of the sword will be related in all the four ages.

ਬਿਧਣ ਖੇਤਿ ਵਿਹਾਣੀ ਮਹਿਖੇ ਦੈਤ ਨੂੰ ॥੧੯॥

बिधण खेति विहाणी महिखे दैत नूं ॥१९॥

On the demon Mahisha the period of agony occurred in the battlefield.19.

ਇਤੀ ਮਹਿਖਾਸੁਰ ਦੈਤ ਮਾਰੇ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਆਇਆ ॥

इती महिखासुर दैत मारे दुरगा आइआ ॥

In this way the demon Mahishasura was killed on the arrival of Durga.

ਚਉਦਹ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਰਾਣੀ ਸਿੰਘ ਨਚਾਇਆ ॥

चउदह लोकां राणी सिंघ नचाइआ ॥

The queen caused the lion to dance in the fourteen worlds.

ਮਾਰੇ ਵੀਰ ਜਟਾਣੀ ਦਲ ਵਿਚਿ ਅਗਲੇ ॥

मारे वीर जटाणी दल विचि अगले ॥

She killed a great number of brave demons with matted locks in the battlefield.

ਮੰਗਨ ਨਾਹੀ ਪਾਣੀ ਦਲੀ ਹੰਕਾਰਿ ਕੈ ॥

मंगन नाही पाणी दली हंकारि कै ॥

Challenging the armies, these warriors do not even ask for water.

ਜਣੁ ਕਰੀ ਸਮਾਇ ਪਠਾਣੀ ਸੁਣਿ ਕੈ ਰਾਗ ਨੂੰ ॥

जणु करी समाइ पठाणी सुणि कै राग नूं ॥

It seems that listening to the music, the Pathans have realized the state of ecstasy.

ਰਤੁ ਦੇ ਹੜਵਾਣੀ ਚਲੇ ਬੀਰ ਖੇਤ ॥

रतु दे हड़वाणी चले बीर खेत ॥

The flood of the blood of the fighters is flowing.

ਪੀਤਾ ਫੁਲ ਅਯਾਣੀ ਘੁਮਣਿ ਸੂਰਮੇ ॥੨੦॥

पीता फुल अयाणी घुमणि सूरमे ॥२०॥

The brave warriors are roaming as if they have ignorantly consumed the intoxicating poppy.20.

ਹੋਈ ਅਲੋਪ ਭਵਾਨੀ ਦੇਵਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਰਾਜ ਦੇ ॥

होई अलोप भवानी देवां नूं राज दे ॥

Bhavani (Durga) disappeard after bestowing kingdom on the gods.

ਈਸਰ ਦੀ ਬਰਦਾਨੀ ਹੋਈ ਜਿਤੁ ਦਿਨ ॥

ईसर दी बरदानी होई जितु दिन ॥

The day for which Shiva granted the boon.

ਸੁੰਭ ਨਿਸੁੰਭ ਗੁਮਾਨੀ ਜਨਮੇ ਸੂਰਮੇ ॥

सु्मभ निसु्मभ गुमानी जनमे सूरमे ॥

The proud warriors Sumbh and Nisumbh were born.

ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਦੀ ਰਾਜਧਾਨੀ ਤੱਕੀ ਜਿਤਣੀ॥੨੧॥

इंद्र दी राजधानी त्की जितणी॥२१॥

They planned to conquer the capital of Indra.21.

ਇੰਦ੍ਰਪੁਰੀ ਤੇ ਧਾਵਣਾ ਵਡ ਜੋਧੀ ਮਤਾ ਪਕਾਇਆ ॥

इंद्रपुरी ते धावणा वड जोधी मता पकाइआ ॥

The great fighters decided to rush towards the kingdom of Indra.

ਸੰਜ ਪਟੇਲਾ ਪਾਖਰਾ ਭੇੜ ਸੰਦਾ ਸਾਜੁ ਬਣਾਇਆ ॥

संज पटेला पाखरा भेड़ संदा साजु बणाइआ ॥

They began to prepare the war-material consisting of armour with belts and saddle-gear.

ਜੁੰਮੇ ਕਟਕ ਅਛੂਹਣੀ ਅਸਮਾਨੁ ਗਰਦੈ ਛਾਇਆ ॥

जुमे कटक अछूहणी असमानु गरदै छाइआ ॥

An army of lakhs of warriors gathered and the dust rose to sky.

ਰੋਹਿ ਸੁੰਭ ਨਿਸੁੰਭ ਸਿਧਾਇਆ ॥੨੨॥

रोहि सु्मभ निसु्मभ सिधाइआ ॥२२॥

Sumbh and Nisumbh, full of rage, have marched forward.22.

Chandi di vaar

No mortal other than Guru sahib can write such a beautiful, soul stirring poetry.See teh word pathani used in chhand 20. Chhand 19 clearly states that this story is of Tegh or kirpan whcih is symbol of God to fight injustice and undo tyranny.

For persons without faith it will take millions of years to understand writings of our father guru who apart from being a Guru was a literary giant of extraordinary calibre that world is yet to produce.

[kuthaman]

I am getting mssages from Hindu fanatic that God of Guru Gobind Singh ji is Shiva . He claims that in chupai shahib it states "khao maha dev sadah shiv .

I need help to answer him back .

Plzzzzzzz post on this topic .

The Dasam Granth makes these statments on the Nature of Shiva. If you need help interpreting them please ask

Source - sridasam.org

Page 35, Line 4

He hath created and destroyed Brahmas and Rudras (Shivas).

Page 41, Line 11

Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu and Consort of Sachi (Indra) would ultimately fall in the noose of death.

Page 43, Line 13

Many Rudras (Shivas) of ghastly appearance are there; many unique Ramas and Krishnas are there. 10.40.

Page 48, Line 8

If the Lord is realised by the practice of austerities, then none is more austere than god Shiva; if the Lord meets by the recitation of Vedas, then none is more conversant with the Vedas than the god Brahma: there is also no great performer of asceticism than Sanat Kumar (the son of Brahma).

Page 48, Line 10

There was one Shiva, who passed away and another one came into being; there are many incarnations of Ramchandra and Krishna.

Page 71, Line 9

The gods Shiva, Indra and Brahma repeat `Neti, Neti` about Him.3.183.

Page 75, Line 11

But the Vedas, Shiva, Rudra and Brahma could not Know His mystery and the secret of His notions.

Page 86, Line 2

Millions of Indras are at His service. Millions of the Yogi Rudras (Shivas stand at His Gate.

Page 88, Line 7

Shiva also could not know His limits; the adepts (Siddhas) alongwith Naths and Sanak etc. meditated upon Him.

[apnepart2]

As per RIG VEDA the oldest VEDA, SHIV was a tribal who roamed jungles and took great pleasure in killing humans.

[Guest amar_jkp]

As per RIG VEDA the oldest VEDA, SHIV was a tribal who roamed jungles and took great pleasure in killing humans.

Can u provide source on this.

[apnepart2]

Did the hindu guy provide you with any sources? I would advise to read Sikh scriptures and understand them before arguing with fools.

BTW heres the verse from Rig Ved (translated)

the worshipper prays to the beast (as described in ved) rudra

"do not kill those of us who go on two feet , or those of us who go on four feet"

apparently shiv killed cattle too.

[.- Prabhjot Singh -.]

apnepart2 veerjeo, i have no gyan of vedas but what you have posted here is quite interesting. Could you kindly give us a link where you got the verse from?