84 Joons And Present Life

[Guest Kulwant]

We complete 84 joons and after doing those 84 joons we get this human life... as in this life we can communicate and become one with god to rid ourselves of anything.....

What about children in the world who are born into pure poverty/disease infested areas and either die very quickly (Short life span) or simply live a poor lifestyle such as the slums of India, Africa, etc.

If 84 is the 'punishment" and where we go after we don't make anything in this life, then how come these humans who have assumable just completed their 84 joons to become humans, have a very bad/poor lifestyle.

If it's karm, then what does 84 joons actually do? Delay time? Since we don't feel anything or felt anything in the 84 joons, literally it should take only a second...

What do you think? Why is this?

[singh987]

We complete 84 joons and after doing those 84 joons we get this human life... as in this life we can communicate and become one with god to rid ourselves of anything.....

What about children in the world who are born into pure poverty/disease infested areas and either die very quickly (Short life span) or simply live a poor lifestyle such as the slums of India, Africa, etc.

If 84 is the 'punishment" and where we go after we don't make anything in this life, then how come these humans who have assumable just completed their 84 joons to become humans, have a very bad/poor lifestyle.

If it's karm, then what does 84 joons actually do? Delay time? Since we don't feel anything or felt anything in the 84 joons, literally it should take only a second...

What do you think? Why is this?

The way it has always been explained to me is, that, you are born into the this world in accordance to your past karam - and that kudrat, places you in the environment in which you are most likely to succeed, thereby giving you the shot at the true way of life.. A learned singh told me to think of it as natural selection! So - if your pot of bhagti is almost full, kudrat will only give you the necessary number swaas that you need or have earned for this human life.. if you fail in your purpose you go back into the cycle. People have bad lifestyles because of 'free will' they basically fall into the classic traps set up by maya/5 bhoots and deviate from their true purpose in life...

I don't think the ethos behind the 84 joons is that your salvation is delayed. The concepts of time, space and age need to be looked at from sikhi's perspective - Think of this, your soul, if you believe is an essence of god (or light of god) then it has no age - it is as old as the lord himself and it will eventually immerse into the lord. Therefore, even the slightest moment spent 'separate' from the one alakpurakh cannot be quantified or perceived by us...

Going through 84 joons in my opinion is more about kurdat exerting it's power and disappointment at us for failing the test of life.. Let's face it no man is going to be able to comprehend kudrat,karam,and maya completely!

I too had similar questions - but have given up seeking answers because there is no point!!!!!

Why did god create me specifically? (it was his will? why did he need to do this?)

what did I do to forget god and why did he let this happen?

I think you have to draw the line at some point and simply have 'faith'. It's human nature and coded into our very genes that we try and understand the workings of the world and the almighty!

If I or another person satisfies your thirst for knowledge today, you will draw up new doubts/questions in your mind very soon and start pursuing them.. at least that's what happens to me, It's the way we work!! But veerji, there is no point in doing this - it's not going to achieve anything, our time is better spent in remembering the almighty!

[singh987]

Anyone else have any views? I thought this was a very good question raised by the poster.

It's weird that everyone makes like 20 replies to useless and pointless topics, but no-one takes part in a worthwhile discussion!!

[SunSingh]

We complete 84 joons and after doing those 84 joons we get this human life... as in this life we can communicate and become one with god to rid ourselves of anything.....

What about children in the world who are born into pure poverty/disease infested areas and either die very quickly (Short life span) or simply live a poor lifestyle such as the slums of India, Africa, etc.

If 84 is the 'punishment" and where we go after we don't make anything in this life, then how come these humans who have assumable just completed their 84 joons to become humans, have a very bad/poor lifestyle.

If it's karm, then what does 84 joons actually do? Delay time? Since we don't feel anything or felt anything in the 84 joons, literally it should take only a second...

What do you think? Why is this?

Karma must be paid off both in 84 lakh joon and in human janams. I don't look at it as a punishment from God, I see it as simply cause and effect, it is punishment from one's own actions. if a person jumps off a cliff, they will suffer the consequences, simple cause and effect.

[singh987]

Karma must be paid off both in 84 lakh joon and in human janams. I don't look at it as a punishment from God, I see it as simply cause and effect, it is punishment from one's own actions. if a person jumps off a cliff, they will suffer the consequences, simple cause and effect.

Thats a good way to look at it paaji, but, if cycle of birth and death is the effect, then what is the cause? Why am I in it!

[SunSingh]

b/c of stuff you did

b/c of feeling of separation from God. tbh, Bani says it's all his khed. I think that's the best way of looking at it, I don't think we can get deeper than that w/o reaching a higher avastha. Others can expand on this explanation though.

[singh987]

b/c of stuff you did

b/c of feeling of separation from God. tbh, Bani says it's all his khed. I think that's the best way of looking at it, I don't think we can get deeper than that w/o reaching a higher avastha. Others can expand on this explanation though.

Yea, it can be mind boggling to understand! What I meant was, why are people put into the cycle after creation? (it has to be under his hukam right?)

so I guess I was asking, once I, the entity am created, i'm put in the cycle - without having done anything? - in accordance to his will..

he creates me, he tests me... :s

lol, I guess some things can never be understood! or at least not till the right avastha is reached.

[Guest jaswinder kaur]

what was we before 84 lacs yoni's...???????.......

[Guest work]

I think you have to draw the line at some point and simply have 'faith'. It's human nature and coded into our very genes that we try and understand the workings of the world and the almighty!

If I or another person satisfies your thirst for knowledge today, you will draw up new doubts/questions in your mind very soon and start pursuing them.. at least that's what happens to me, It's the way we work!! But veerji, there is no point in doing this - it's not going to achieve anything, our time is better spent in remembering the almighty!

Your right, love knows no Logic, and God is All Love!

[m4ndy]

I have a lot of questions about this subject because it's intreasting to know about life after death and the time before one was born. Not many people like talking about death but it's a fact of life which is certain for everyone.

8.4 million life forms is quite a lot, is this our first time here as humans because if we calculate when Sikhism first began minus that from our birth year, is that how long it took to complete 8.4 life forms?

It's only a matter of time before the soul gets tired since only the body changes but the soul stays the same which is why some people are born with disabilities from the past actions in previous life. so in effect the soul is actually immortal since the whole of humanitys aim is to merge with god, otherwise we face the hurt again in life forms and carrying out duties to one another. Rebirth and death will keep carrying on then we will see the gate of rebirth and begin the cycle again.

Why is this 8.4 so exact? Aren't some animals becoming extinct what happens then? Is being an animal close to be born a human again? And being insects is the lower chain of the cycle? Why is it we don't remember the actions of the previous life?