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K. SINGH DEEP

Caste System In Sikhi [Late S. K.Singh Deep Ji's last message for all of us]

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GURU roop Sadh Sangat jeeo,

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.

Caste system realy needs to be eradicated from Sikhi.

But no one is doing some thing for practical implication of the same and everybody

just talks ,gives quotes from Gurbaani . Can any body from so called higher castes

can marry his daugtrer/son to a boy /daughter from so called lower caste? If yes,

it is O.K. and if no , please forgive me , we are only so called Sikhs or BHEKHI SIKHS

and not real SIKHS.

I being an Amritdhari ,wanted to marry an Amritdhari SIKH Girl in 1979-80 and

advertised in a leading Punjabi news papper mentioning especially "Caste no bar"but

got response from only 2 references one was from Sandhu Jats and another from

Ahluwalia family.Because I had decided for inter caste marriage and that too without

dowry and with Baraat of only 5 persons including Myself ,Ihad no option other than the

Ahluwalia familys Girl who ( now my SINGHANI )was Amritdhari too. Though I had to

make all out and very hard efforts to get my mother agreed for it.

One of my brothers daughter has married a boy from RAVIDASIA family and

the farher of the girl who is my elder brother ,though participared in the marriage

and has also perfomed the Rasam of PALLA PHARANA, is not in talkative terms with

his daughter and her husband and does not allow the couple to enter his house.

I call him BEIMAAN because is hostile in the court of SIKHI and GURU by participating

the marriage ceremony in the presence of GURU GRANTH SAHIB as father of the Girl

but now hasitates to accept the relationship due to society.

So to eradicate the caste system from SIKHI we shall have to be bold enough

to accept rather welome such stories.

Bhul chuk Khnma

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

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It is very true that something needs to be done about jaat paat. But sadly amritdharis let alone other still believe in caste. I got discriminated against just because I wasn't a so called jatt. But remember those who believe in caste Guru Sahib will never accept them.

Jo Sikha Ko Puche Jaat Soh Sikh Nahi Mero Aad Jugaad (Those who ask a sikh's caste, they are not my sikh, they never were, and they never will be) --Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Jee Maharaj)

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It is very true that something needs to be done about jaat paat. But sadly amritdharis let alone other still believe in caste. I got discriminated against just because I wasn't a so called jatt. But remember those who believe in caste Guru Sahib will never accept them.

Jo Sikha Ko Puche Jaat Soh Sikh Nahi Mero Aad Jugaad (Those who ask a sikh's caste, they are not my sikh, they never were, and they never will be) --Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Jee Maharaj)

Bhai Nand Lal (Singh) ji in his Rehatnama ,has mentioned at a place:-

"Amrit ko paani kahe ,Sikh ki poochhahe jaat.

Kahe GOBIND SINGH Nand Lal ji ,so sikh jampur jaat."

Whenever we ask some sikh as to which jaat he/she belongs,we

are marching ahead towards NARAK.

Bhul chuk Khima ,

Waheguru ji ka Kkalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.

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It is very true that something needs to be done about jaat paat. But sadly amritdharis let alone other still believe in caste. I got discriminated against just because I wasn't a so called jatt. But remember those who believe in caste Guru Sahib will never accept them.

Jo Sikha Ko Puche Jaat Soh Sikh Nahi Mero Aad Jugaad (Those who ask a sikh's caste, they are not my sikh, they never were, and they never will be) --Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Jee Maharaj)

Right on.

I mean I am a "jatt" but i never think that it's a sense of pride or something. I don't believe in the caste system at all. I hate when people discriminate others. It makes me sick.mad.gif

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It is very true that something needs to be done about jaat paat. But sadly amritdharis let alone other still believe in caste. I got discriminated against just because I wasn't a so called jatt. But remember those who believe in caste Guru Sahib will never accept them.

Jo Sikha Ko Puche Jaat Soh Sikh Nahi Mero Aad Jugaad (Those who ask a sikh's caste, they are not my sikh, they never were, and they never will be) --Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Jee Maharaj)

Right on.

I mean I am a "jatt" but i never think that it's a sense of pride or something. I don't believe in the caste system at all. I hate when people discriminate others. It makes me sick.mad.gif

Then if you are not married yet, you should marry a bibi who is from non-Jatt family :)

If you are married, make sure your kids marry non-Jatts :)

Deal??? :)

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It is very true that something needs to be done about jaat paat. But sadly amritdharis let alone other still believe in caste. I got discriminated against just because I wasn't a so called jatt. But remember those who believe in caste Guru Sahib will never accept them.

Jo Sikha Ko Puche Jaat Soh Sikh Nahi Mero Aad Jugaad (Those who ask a sikh's caste, they are not my sikh, they never were, and they never will be) --Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Jee Maharaj)

Right on.

I mean I am a "jatt" but i never think that it's a sense of pride or something. I don't believe in the caste system at all. I hate when people discriminate others. It makes me sick.mad.gif

Then if you are not married yet, you should marry a bibi who is from non-Jatt family :)

If you are married, make sure your kids marry non-Jatts :)

Deal??? :)

Thats a good deal lol

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Guru pyaryo,

I married a non Jat but AMRITDHARI SINGHANI in 1980 and

now in 2007 my elder son too married a non Jat Girl and I am proud

of the same with blessings of Sacha Patshah Dhan Sri Guru Granth

Saheb ji.

Bhul chuk khima, Wahegru ji ka Khalsa Wahegru ji ki Fateh

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Yeah, try telling that to my parents. They said if i married a "non-jatt" they would never accept her. Well, I'm still young and have a long time to think about it.biggrin.gif

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Yeah, try telling that to my parents.
Thats exactly what I want YOU to do :)
They said if i married a "non-jatt" they would never accept her. Well, I'm still young and have a long time to think about it.biggrin.gif
All the best then :)

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vaise why even get in jat pat at all. Why not, just "not ask" the jaat paat. U meet a girl/boy, see if you click, and never ask that question. move on if you do, otherwise keep going.

Eventually, you would have a life partner what god have written for you, from the jat you are from or not. I don't think God would have wanted to create divisions on who is bigger or better and who is not. God must have just planned to make one human form to get this soul chance to get out of birth-death cycle. But now that there are too many humans (souls in this universe given chance to evolve), we created another drama here on this earth.

I wish we could just see that original plan waheguru jee have for us.

9th Guru jee says

mwns ko jnmu lInu ismrnu nh inmK kInu ]

maanas ko janam leen simaran neh nimakh keen ||

You obtained this human life, but you have not remembered the Lord in meditation, even for an instant.

I believe Guru Gobind Singh jee says this

Manas ki jaat sabe eke pehchanbo : All Humans are of one and treat all humans equally

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Waheguru ji mehar karan taa ke asin Baaman vaad, Jatt vaad ,Bhapa vaad,

.................te hor anek vaadan to uchche utthh ke SIKHI de raste utte

chalan da jatan kar sakiye. Dhan guru Granth Sahib ji mehar karan

sanu saryan nu apni sikhiya/Gurmat bakhshan ta ke asin Jaat paat to

uuper utthh ke SIKHI nu samajh sakiye.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fareh

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Gurujee te Hukam kar chukke ne, par je Sikh sunan nu tiyaar nai fer ki ho sakda?

kbIr swcw siqguru ikAw krY jau isKw mih cUk ]

kabeer saachaa sathigur kiaa karai jo sikhaa mehi chook ||

Kabeer, what can the True Guru do, when His Sikhs are at fault?

AMDy eyk n lwgeI ijau bWsu bjweIAY PUk ]158]

a(n)dhhae eaek n laagee jio baa(n)s bajaaeeai fook ||158||

The blind do not take in any of His Teachings; it is as useless as blowing into bamboo. ||158||

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vaise why even get in jat pat at all. Why not, just "not ask" the jaat paat. U meet a girl/boy, see if you click, and never ask that question. move on if you do, otherwise keep going.

Eventually, you would have a life partner what god have written for you, from the jat you are from or not. I don't think God would have wanted to create divisions on who is bigger or better and who is not. God must have just planned to make one human form to get this soul chance to get out of birth-death cycle. But now that there are too many humans (souls in this universe given chance to evolve), we created another drama here on this earth.

Well my parents were very strict on caste, and i was engaged to someone in my own caste. With waheguru's kirpa that bad engagement broke down, then they were suddenly ok with me finding my own guy outside of the caste.

But after i've been on shaadi.com they are not too keen on the idea anymore....ive found that a lot of families are not willing to accept a daughter-in-law from a different caste. I tell my parents about every guy i have spoken to on there (becuase i don't want to do something that they disapprove of), and the amount of times i have said to them i'm not in contact with x person anymore, turns out caste would be an issue...is really bad! It has sort of confirmed what their fears were before; that i would be treated differently or looked down on if marrying someone from a different caste.

I personally think it wouldn't work if marrying into a family that are big on caste, even if your partner wasn't. Because it already creates a divide and it would be a horrible position to put your husband in!

So, it would be awesome for everyone to be able to go out there and marry someone they love regardless of caste, but in reality i think us as a sikh community are a very long way from getting there.

Apologies if i have offended anyone.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh

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After I hear countless stories about how their parents are strict about caste etc., I have one answer to all these people. GUys/gals you are going to get married to someone sooner than later. YOu are going to have kids and they are going to grow up. And you need to really really make sure that you don't teach your kids about jat pat at all. Some of it they are going to learn from sikhi camps, schools etc., community in general. But make sure you tell them you are ok with their kids choice. you are blind/deaf/immune to the caste disease.

Lets not carry over the caste disease to next generation.

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There is no harm in having caste. It's just a title of your forefathers and nothing else. The main problem within Sikhism is caste based discrimination. Try to work on getting rid of caste based prejudice, which is the main concern, Sikh society facing at this time. We are Sikhs and everyone is our brothers/sister.

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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

"There is no harm in having caste. It's just a title of your forefathers and nothing else."

Goes against the command of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, who stated the only accepted last names are Singh and Kaur. Also, this was and is the basis of discrimination against other humans, which is against the bachan of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, "Manas Ki Jaat Sahbae Eake Pechanbo". If you want to see the reality of caste, go visit any pind in India and it will become very apparent as to why caste = bad.

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ਅਗੈ ਜਾਤਿ ਨ ਜੋਰੁ ਹੈ ਅਗੈ ਜੀਉ ਨਵੇ ॥

Agai jatte na jor hai agai jeeo navae ||

In the world hereafter, Caste and power mean nothing; hereafter, the soul is new.

ਜਿਨ ਕੀ ਲੇਖੈ ਪਤਿ ਪਵੈ ਚੰਗੇ ਸੇਈ ਕੇਇ ॥੩॥

Jin kee laekhai patt pavai changae saeee kaee ||3||

Those few, whose honor is confirmed, are good. ||3||

(Asa ki Vaar, Salok before pauri no. 11)

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I salute to k singh deep for initiating such relevent topic, actually we guys always find some excuse to

interprete the things our way (for those who think there is nothing bad in caste system ), not even sparing

gurbani.I personally know veer deep ji , he spent his life perfectly according to Gurmat , and passed away

recently on 5 Apr 2010 after brief illness . let us all pray that his soul stays in unison with the great Creator

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Oh Waheguru Ji! I had emailed him not so long back to enquire about his health but got no replies. Oh Waheguru ji, please keep our brother's soul in your feet. I feel so sad right now :(

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I salute to k singh deep for initiating such relevent topic, actually we guys always find some excuse to

interprete the things our way (for those who think there is nothing bad in caste system ), not even sparing

gurbani.I personally know veer deep ji , he spent his life perfectly according to Gurmat , and passed away

recently on 5 Apr 2010 after brief illness . let us all pray that his soul stays in unison with the great Creator

Waheguru....Mehar Kari Dateya....

:sad:

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cast system has been making inroads in Sikhism, because after the departure of last Guru the Apostasy or downfall of true sikhi began. Ever since the truth has been being replaced by ignorance regarding the true message of the Guru.When Gurus were present among the saints they kept the sangat on the straight and narrow path of righteousness. They had the spiritual power to withstand the pressure of the world around them. History shows that those Sikhs would rather lay down their lives for the sake of truth than scum to it. But it is a different picture today.I see Sikhs with 5 ks doing all kinds of ignoble things.

The big stumbling block the Sikhs have erected for themselves is believing Guru Granth as the 11th guru , when the gurbani tells us that the Guru has ascended to Devpuri and he is a living being. How can a book of instructions impart that which Guruji bestowed upon his Sikhs. Was there a shortage of holy books in the days of the Gurus on the Indian soil. Nay, Guruji brought back that which was lost among the Hindu pandits and Muslim Mullas.They restored the true ordinances and principles and provided light and truth to their Sikhs so that they can connect with the Almighty. The scholars and gianis cannot give you light. The only thing they can give is the explanation of the past history, going round and round in circle.All religions are doing the same old thing. The Sikh Holy scripture is full with nuggets of gold, pealrs and gems. But who will interpret the word of God? Only one who is sent from above ,like Guru Nanak.

Almighty God, Wheguru, has been sending his messenger in every age (yug). So when guru Nanak ji came with a message from God, he did not direct his followers to fallen sects of the day. He did not say that the holy scriptures of Hindus, Muslims and Christians were wrong, but rather he said that glories of that God has been sung by past devotees.

ਪੂਰਨ ਪੁਰਖ ਅਚੁਤ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਜਸੁ ਵੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਣੀ ਗਾਇਆ ॥

पूरन पुरख अचुत अबिनासी जसु वेद पुराणी गाइआ ॥

Pūran purakẖ acẖuṯ abẖināsī jas veḏ purāṇī gā▫i▫ā.

The Vedas and the Puraanas sing the Praises of the Perfect, Unchanging, Imperishable Primal Lord.

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥

बेद कतेब कहहु मत झूठे झूठा जो न बिचारै ॥

Beḏ kaṯeb kahhu maṯ jẖūṯẖe jẖūṯẖā jo na bicẖārai.

Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false.

The books cannot give you mukti. .So Sikhs will have do pray for and seek after that same true samgat of saints which has been restored by the Lord. I give a clue, it is not to be found among the present Sikhs. They will have to look for it outside. It is there on this earth. I belong to such sant mandal.

Wahegur ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki fathe.

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Jat marry non jat this means nothing if you are sikh. If u r a sikh u r not jat nor non jatt u r just a sikh. Saying jat etc is sin itself.

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