Ravidasi Followers Of Baalan Dera Start A New Faith

[BiggChan]

To the best of my knowledge, Bhagat Ravidass Ji did not form a religion in his name whereas 'sab sikhan nu hukam hai, guru manio granth'. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji installed Guruship to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji themself. Are leaders at Dera Ballan saying they are on par with Bhagat Ravidass Ji in order that they can make these decisions to form a new faith?

May be the 'stern' words of Singh Sahib Giani Gurbachan Singh have come about due to angs of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj being used to compile a new text. Simply not acceptable. harjits4, you claim Bhagat Ravidass Ji as your 'Guru'. If one of his limbs were removed without his hukam and worshipped by a man made faith, I doubt you would like it. Yet you seem to have no objections to the 'leaders' at Dera Ballan taking the same step with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. May be the lack of respect for Guru Ji is the problem here.

[kuthaman]

I hate to say it, but it is probably better. A lot of the Ravidassias and Sikhs have had many arguments all over the internet. Many people reject the caste system, but this is probably better for both communities. They are free to develop in what ever way they choose. What numbers does Dera Ballan have and also what is your personal belief?

[sikhlondon]

this al hapen becz our pupilz hav no gud minds fr undstnd evrithng dats main problm

[sikhlondon]

watevr s hapen its result of unjustice in society n castism in in society n lower caste s victem of this unjustice so diz all nt surprised me watevr hapen i hav seen dat some where in punjab in guru ghar lower caste hav seprate place fr 'prasaad' dats nt gud is anione of u hav raise hand agnst of them noooooo so why we r talking abt it ????????

[apnepart2]

watevr s hapen its result of unjustice in society n castism in in society n lower caste s victem of this unjustice so diz all nt surprised me watevr hapen i hav seen dat some where in punjab in guru ghar lower caste hav seprate place fr 'prasaad' dats nt gud is anione of u hav raise hand agnst of them noooooo so why we r talking abt it ????????

Rubbish! They are capable of building seperate gurdwaras where they cannot be discriminated. No discrimination happens at any Historical Gurdwara connected to Gurus and under SGPC control. their designs are sinister in nature and politically motivated. only a handful followers of dera are involved which has no real mass following.

meanwhile...

10 Ravidassi leaders held

Dharmendra Joshi

Tribune News Service

Jalandhar, February 6

Amid reports of placing shortly at some religious places, the holy book "Amritbani Satguru Ravidass Maharajji" of the newly declared religion "Ravidass Dharam" by Dera Sachkhand Ballan a few days back, the district police arrested 10 leaders belonging to the Ravidass community from their houses in the wee hours today.

Confirming the arrests, DC Ajit Singh Pannu told The Tribune that the suspected persons had been taken into custody as they were planning to remove Guru Granth Sahib forcibly from some religious places due to which the feelings of a community could have been hurt.

In reply to a question, he said more persons planning to do the same would be arrested soon. He asked this correspondent to contact SSP RK Jaiswal for further details, but the latter could not be contacted despite repeated attempts.

Most of the arrested persons belong to the BSP and Ambedkar Sena (Mool Niwasi). All these persons were taken to Sadar police station after taking them into custody from their respective houses located in different parts of the district.

However, later some persons were released whereas three are still in police custody. According to police sources, the three persons including Ambedkar Sena (Mool Niwasi) state president Harbhajan Suman, its activist Brajesh Kumar Gauri and a local BSP leader Sukhwinder Tony have been booked under Sections 153 A, 295, 295 A and 120 B of IPC.

The police sources further said the places of several other Ravidassis allegedly instigating their community members were also being raided to arrest them.

One of the released persons, Sukhwinder Kotli, state general secretary of the BSP and sarpnach of Kotli Than Singh, told The Tribune a police party including Sadar SHO raided his house at around 4 am. They were asked to accompany them on the pretext of their meeting with some senior police officials.

Later he and some other persons including Dharampal Lesriwal were released after other BSP leaders met the DC and the SSP in this regard.

Criticising the Parkash Singh Badal-led SAD-BJP government for harassing Ravidass community members, Kotli said they would soon react according to the future course of action being decided by BSP state president and Rajya Sabha member Avtar Singh Karimpuri.

[singhawk]

1.99.99 ramdasia are people with low caste backgrounds

2.They form 10 - 15 percent of sikhs and 60 - 65 percent in hindus

3.SC BC and other people combined form 55 percent of indian population

4.Ramdasia religion is to combine this 55 percent not as a sect but as a religion

Ramdasia refers to Weavers who were previously followers of Bhagat Kabir and Ramdasia is referring to followers of 4th Sikh Guru Ramdas Jee who himself took weavers into their sharan when several thousand weavers become part of Sikh religion. This is where term ramdasia came into picture. It is not about Hindu diety "Ram" or "Sita".

Ravidasia and Ramdasia are separate terms and should not be used interchangeably. :| Ravidasia are the followers of Bhagat Ravidas whose baani is imbibed in the Guru Granth Sahib and Ramdasia were previously followers of Bhagat Kabir whose baani is imbibed in the Guru Granth Sahib.

I dont see any reason for a confusion here :6 I dont understand how come someone post that ramdasia is a religion when Guru Ramdas was a Sikh Guru ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

True Sikh is a Sikh and has no Caste.

WJKWJF

Singh Hawk

[SunSingh]

I understand the desire to avoid discrimination. I am just wondering, what is Dera Baalan doing to curtail acts of violence against Sikhs such as the one AK47 noted below? Such acts of violence are unacceptable. Keep in mind that when the killings in Vienna happened, the highest authority in Sikhism, The Akaal Takht Sahib, as well as numerous Sikh groups inlcluding kharkoo groups, condemned it.

If they want to be recognized as a seperate group of people thats understandable. Their entitled to their beliefs.

Recently in India I witnessed 1 of their parades. In which they were walking by doing bhangra playing tunes like "ankhi put chammara deh". Thats fair enough aswell.

But Alot of them were carrying unsheathed swords raised in the air, hockey sticks, baseball bats and iron rods which felt intimidating. Shouting slogans calling the Vienna Sikhs terrorists.

All this was going on with a photo of Bhagat Ravidass ji at the front of the Parade.

In 1 pend i know of, the sarpanch is Ravidassi. The jatts in that particular pend had no problem with that. But when it all kicked off recently in Vienna, the same Sarpanch and his goons were going round burning Sikh Shops and businesses down while leaving the Ravidassi ones untouched. They were smashing up cars that had Sant Bhindranwalle Stickers on them.

The sarpanch got a beating and few of his goons were murdered in that pend for that.

We all hear the symphatisthing stories too often about how they are the down trodden minority that we treat badly. But bear in mind, its this same down trodden minority that is the majority and will be smashing up your homes, shops, cars if it kicks off again.

Just a word of warning.

When lucha saudhas body guard shot a sikh dead. I noticed Sikhs didnt go round singling out and burning/smashing every so called low caste shop and business.

IN jallandhar the train carriages that got burnt are still sitting there and it can be seen today. Such behavior is unnacceptable.

[apnepart2]

How can Dera condemn when the acts of violence are being done by the dera itself? Number of Ravidasi places of worship had sought police protection as Dera men had made threatening calls to remove Guru Granth Sahib. The major people arrested include memebrs of Punjab BSP. Dera has no right to take bani of Bhagat Ravidas from Guru Granth Sahib as the Granth is the only main source of Bani included in it. If they want to establish seperate faith they should get Bani of Bhagat Ravidas from somewhere else. Why don't they try getting it from Bhagat Ravidas via their Guru? They have no right to take bani from Guru Granth Sahib on the pretext that its author was Chamaar. That is direct attack on Sikhi. If you dont want to follow rehat of Sikhs then how can you take their Bani and form another faith from it? Get your own Bani not from Guru Granth Sahib.

[Bir_Rass]

this problem is so against sikhism, if some1 could say around 310 years ago to allow the caste system and unite 2getha but no, how pathetic...

[harjits4]

To the best of my knowledge, Bhagat Ravidass Ji did not form a religion in his name whereas 'sab sikhan nu hukam hai, guru manio granth'. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji installed Guruship to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji themself. Are leaders at Dera Ballan saying they are on par with Bhagat Ravidass Ji in order that they can make these decisions to form a new faith?

May be the 'stern' words of Singh Sahib Giani Gurbachan Singh have come about due to angs of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj being used to compile a new text. Simply not acceptable. harjits4, you claim Bhagat Ravidass Ji as your 'Guru'. If one of his limbs were removed without his hukam and worshipped by a man made faith, I doubt you would like it. Yet you seem to have no objections to the 'leaders' at Dera Ballan taking the same step with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. May be the lack of respect for Guru Ji is the problem here.

BiggChann Ji:

Jai Gurudev:

I can understand your feelings because you revere GGS as a living guru but we never did and would never and this was the point of conflict. This is not to imply that we disrespect it in any manner. We believed in bani rather than the medium it is written on and we allowed both mona or anybody else to read it. Off couse GGS being a holy book has its inherent respect but we didn't believe in the rituals of airconditioning it, making it go to sleep, wake it up, providing it heat in winter specifically etc. If sikhs do it than that's fine, we have no issue with it. If GGS is a shared granth than one group can't enforce their mariada on everybody since sharing inherently implies that it is respected and worshipped equally by all. We addressed Ravidass as Guru and sikhs didn't like it so it is better to take own route.

If I take your analogy of cutting the limbs than how many limbs Guru Nanak Dev Ji cut. Satguru Naamdev, Satguru Sain, Baba Sheikh Farid, Bhagat Rama Nand were all senior to Guru Nanak Dev ji and obviously weren't alive when Guru nanak took their bani and included in GGS. How did he ask them? Moreover, GGS is a compiled Granth and Guru nanak Dev or Sikhs, I am afrain to say, don't get ownership of Guru ravidass Bani or other bani of other's saints. What if kabir panthis come and ask you to give back Satguru Kabir's bani? So analogy of yours, I am sorry to say is more based on your personal feelings.

You may argue that it is living but then again, it is not for us. For us Ravidassias it has been used as a reason to murder innocent ravidassias right in its front. Now which living guru would allow that...? Where was the living guru when innocent worshippers were stabbed in Vienna or a child's throat was almost slashed with gatra sahib ji and held at ransom. You may talk about beadbi but true living guru would never allow cold blooded murder of anybody. That is not the job of a guru but that is the job of a blood thirty monster. Living guru forgives and leaves it up to almighty to take care of things.