Yoga west

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

bhai sahib je, go read the entire shabad

dont look at that one line

n BIjY rwgI nwdI byid ]

n bheejai raagee naadhee baedh ||

He is not won over by music, songs or the Vedas.

n BIjY surqI igAwnI joig ]

n bheejai surathee giaanee jog ||

He is not won over by intuitive wisdom, meditation or Yoga.

n BIjY sogI kIqY roij ]

n bheejai sogee keethai roj ||

He is not won over by feeling sad and depressed forever.

n BIjY rUpNØI mwlNØI rMig ]

n bheejai roopa(n)aee maala(n)aee ra(n)g ||

He is not won over by beauty, wealth and pleasures.

n BIjY qIriQ BivAY nµig ]

n bheejai theerathh bhaviai na(n)g ||

He is not won over by wandering naked at sacred shrines.

n BIjY dwqNØI kIqY puMin ]

n bheejai dhaatha(n)aee keethai pu(n)n ||

He is not won over by giving donations in charity.

n BIjY bwhir bYiTAw suMin ]

n bheejai baahar bait(h)iaa su(n)n ||

He is not won over by living alone in the wilderness.

n BIjY ByiV mrih iBiV sUr ]

n bheejai bhaerr marehi bhirr soor ||

He is not won over by fighting and dying as a warrior in battle.

n BIjY kyqy hovih DUV ]

n bheejai kaethae hovehi dhhoorr ||

He is not won over by becoming the dust of the masses.

lyKw ilKIAY mn kY Bwie ]

laekhaa likheeai man kai bhaae ||

The account is w

ritten of the loves of the mind.

nwnk BIjY swcY nwie ]2]

naanak bheejai saachai naae ||2||

O Nanak, the Lord is won over only by His Name. ||2||

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Pheena]

I have read the entire shabad bhai sahib. Here i'll post the entire verse.

gauVI mhlw 5 ] 

Gauree, Fifth Mehl: 

gaVI mhlw 5 ] 

ga-orhee mehlaa 5. 

   

gur kY bcin moih prm giq pweI ] 

Through the Guru`s Word, I have attained the supreme status.

gur kY bcin moih pmé giq pweé ] 

gur kai bachan mohi param gat paa-ee. 

   

guir pUrY myrI pYj rKweI ]1] 

The Perfect Guru has preserved my honor. ||1|| 

guir pUrY myrI pYj rKweé ]1] 

gur poorai mayree paij rakhaa-ee. ||1|| 

   

gur kY bcin iDAwieE moih nwau ] 

Through the Guru`s Word, I meditate on the Name. 

gur kY bcin iDAweAo moih nwa ] 

gur kai bachan Dhi-aa-i-o mohi naa-o. 

   

gur prswid moih imilAw Qwau ]1] rhwau ] 

By Guru`s Grace, I have obtained a place of rest. ||1||Pause|| 

gur prswid moih imilAw Qwa ]1] rhwa ] 

gur parsaad mohi mili-aa thaa-o. ||1|| rahaa-o. 

   

gur kY bcin suix rsn vKwxI ] 

I listen to the Guru`s Word, and chant it with my tongue. 

gur kY bcin suix rsn vKwxI ] 

gur kai bachan sun rasan vakhaanee. 

   

gur ikrpw qy AMimRq myrI bwxI ]2] 

By Guru`s Grace, my speech is like nectar. ||2|| 

;

gur ikrpw qy Amãq myrI bwxI ]2] 

gur kirpaa tay amrit mayree banee. ||2|| 

   

gur kY bcin imitAw myrw Awpu ] 

Through the Guru`s Word, my selfishness and conceit have been removed. 

gur kY bcin imitAw myrw Awpu ] 

gur kai bachan miti-aa mayraa aap. 

   

gur kI dieAw qy myrw vf prqwpu ]3] 

Through the Guru`s kindness, I have obtained glorious greatness. ||3|| 

gur kI deAw qy myrw vf prqwpu ]3] 

gur kee da-i-aa tay mayraa vad partaap. ||3|| 

   

gur kY bcin imitAw myrw Brmu ] 

Through the Guru`s Word, my doubts have been removed. 

gur kY bcin imitAw myrw Brmu ] 

gur kai bachan miti-aa mayraa bharam. 

   

gur kY bcin pyiKE sBu bRhmu ]4] 

Through the Guru`s Word, I see God everywhere. ||4|| 

gur kY bcin pyiKAo sBu bRHäu ]4] 

gur kai bachan paykhi-o sabh barahm. ||4|| 

   

gur kY bcin kIno rwju jogu ] 

Through the Guru`s Word, I practice Raja Yoga, the Yoga of meditation and success. 

gur kY bcin kIno rwju jogu ] 

gur kai bachan keeno raaj jog. 

   

gur kY sMig qirAw sBu logu ]5] 

In the Company of the Guru, all the people of the world are saved. ||5|| 

gur kY sNig qirAw sBu logu ]5] 

gur kai sang tari-aa sabh log. ||5|| 

   

gur kY bcin myry kwrj isiD ] 

Through the Guru`s Word, my affairs are resolved. 

gur kY bcin myry kwrj isiD ] 

gur kai bachan mayray kaaraj siDh. 

   

gur kY bcin pwieAw nwau iniD ]6] 

Through the Guru`s Word, I have obtained the nine treasures. ||6|| 

gur kY bcin pweAw nwa iniD ]6

] 

gur kai bachan paa-i-aa naa-o niDh. ||6|| 

   

ijin ijin kInI myry gur kI Awsw ] 

Whoever places his hopes in my Guru, 

ijin ijin kInI myry gur kI Awsw ] 

jin jin keenee mayray gur kee aasaa. 

   

iqs kI ktIAY jm kI Pwsw ]7] 

has the noose of death cut away. ||7|| 

iqs kI ktIEy jm kI Pwsw ]7] 

tis kee katee-ai jam kee faasaa. ||7|| 

   

gur kY bcin jwigAw myrw krmu ] 

Through the Guru`s Word, my good karma has been awakened. 

gur kY bcin jwigAw myrw krmu ] 

gur kai bachan jaagi-aa mayraa karam. 

   

nwnk guru ByitAw pwrbRhmu ]8]8] 

O Nanak, meeting with the Guru, I have found the Supreme Lord God. ||8||8|| 

nwnk gu{ ByitAw pwrbRHäu ]8]8] 

naanak gur bhayti-aa paarbarahm. ||8||8||

Awsw mhlw 5 ] 

Aasaa, Fifth Mehl: 

Awsw mhlw 5 ] 

aasaa mehlaa 5. 

   

bwhru Doie AMqru mnu mYlw duie Taur Apuny Koey ] 

He washes outwardly, but within, his mind is filthy; thus he loses his place in both worlds. 

bwh{ Doe ANq{ mnu mYlw due Tar Apuny KoE ] 

baahar Dho-ay antar man mailaa du-ay tha-ur apunay kho-ay. 

   

eIhw kwim k®oiD moih ivAwipAw AwgY muis muis roey ]1] 

Here, he is engrossed in <admin-profanity filter activated> desire, anger and emotional attachment; hereafter, he shall sigh and weep. ||1|| 

eéhw kwim k®oiD moih ivAwipAw AwgY muis muis roE ]

1] 

eehaa kaam kroDh mohi vi-aapi-aa aagai mus mus ro-ay. ||1|| 

   

goivMd Bjn kI miq hY horw ] 

The way to vibrate and meditate on the Lord of the Universe is different. 

goivNd Bjn kI miq hY horw ] 

govind bhajan kee mat hai horaa. 

   

vrmI mwrI swpu n mreI nwmu n suneI forw ]1] rhwau ] 

Destroying the snake-hole, the snake is not killed; the deaf person does not hear the Lord`s Name. ||1||Pause|| 

vrmI mwrI swpu n mreé nwmu n suneé forw ]1] rhwa ] 

varmee maaree saap na mar-ee naam na sun-ee doraa. ||1|| rahaa-o. 

   

mwieAw kI ikriq Coif gvweI BgqI swr n jwnY ] 

He renounces the affairs of Maya, but he does not appreciate the value of devotional worship. 

mweAw kI ikriq Coif gvweé BgqI swr n jwnY ] 

maa-i-aa kee kirat chhod gavaa-ee bhagtee saar na jaanai. 

   

byd swsqR kau qrkin lwgw qqu jogu n pCwnY ]2] 

He finds fault with the Vedas and the Shaastras, and does not know the essence of Yoga. ||2|| 

byd sws» ka qrkin lwgw qqu jogu n pCwnY ]2] 

bayd saastar ka-o tarkan laagaa tat jog na pachhaanai. ||2|| 

   

auGir gieAw jYsw Kotw FbUAw ndir srwPw AwieAw ] 

He stands exposed, like a counterfeit coin, when inspected by the Lord, the Assayer. 

aGir geAw jYsw Kotw FbUAw ndir srwPw AweAw ] 

ughar ga-i-aa jaisaa khotaa dhaboo-aa nadar saraafaa aa-i-aa. 

   

AMqrjwmI sBu ikCu jwnY aus qy khw CpwieAw ]3] 

The Inner-knower, the Searcher of hearts, knows everything; how can we hide anything from Him? ||3|| 

ANqrjwmI sBu ikCu jwnY as qy khw CpweAw ]3] 

antarjaamee sabh kichh jaanai us tay kahaa chhapaa-i-aa. ||3|| 

&

nbsp;  

kUiV kpit bMic inMmunIAwdw ibnis gieAw qqkwly ] 

Through falsehood, fraud and deceit, the mortal collapses in an instant - he has no foundation at all. 

kUiV kpit bNic inMmunIAwdw ibnis geAw qqkwly ] 

koorh kapat banch nimmunee-aadaa binas ga-i-aa tatkaalay. 

   

siq siq siq nwnik kihAw ApnY ihrdY dyKu smwly ]4]3]42] 

Truly, truly, truly, Nanak speaks; look within your own heart, and realize this. ||4||3||42||

siq siq siq nwnik kihAw ApnY ihrdY dyKu smwly ]4]3]42] 

sat sat sat naanak kahi-aa apnai hirdai daykh samaalay. ||4||3||42|| 

[Mkhalsa]

If one reads all the shabads about yogis, you will realize that guru sahib is describing a gursikh and saying that is a true yogi, much as guru sahib has described a true hindu and a true muslim and it has ended up being the description of a gursikh. But I have seen quite a few lines that say that yogic tantras etc are useless without the true name.

meditational practices of others are useless to us, why would we want to participate in them? we have the true meditational practice, the one that will bring us to sachkhand, to meditate in the ways of others is to deny our own gurmat and proper way. All the other ways are entirely useless. I have tried other ways, and basically they will confuse the heck out of you and really mess up your avastha and simran.

[Pheena]

If one reads all the shabads about yogis, you will realize that guru sahib is describing a gursikh and saying that is a true yogi, much as guru sahib has described a true hindu and a true muslim and it has ended up being the description of a gursikh. But I have seen quite a few lines that say that yogic tantras etc are useless without the true name.

When you say Gursikh are you implying a Sikh (ie: Amritdhari) ? It is not a matter of Majority of line are against yogis then they must be wrong...what of those words that i have posted? Is there a contradiction then or do we lack the knowledge on what the guru is actually are trying to tell us? Can both of them be right?

Also can you please tell me what you think the meaning of True Name is?

meditational practices of others are useless to us, why would we want to participate in them? we have the true meditational practice, the one that will bring us to sachkhand, to med

itate in the ways of others is to deny our own gurmat and proper way. All the other ways are entirely useless. I have tried other ways, and basically they will confuse the heck out of you and really mess up your avastha and simran.

You create your own boundries. It is one thing to follow one single path, but it is another to condemn the other path because it is useless to you. Bro, how is you saying, " All the other ways are entirely useless." any different from a muslim saying the only way to god is to be a Muslim? BTW do you ever eat out like food from different countries and stuff?? The only way i can undesrtand you point is thru this analogy. You can eat out once a while to experience other foods from different cultures. but in the end you always come back to Roti and Daal. The experience you gain from other cultures is just as importan in making you realize the broadness of foods that are available. Just because you are eating roti and daal, does not mean chinese food cannot diminish your hunger....Yes one can choose by their desire or what they feel will benefit them accordingly, but one has no right to say that it cannot dimish your hunger....for YOU it might not work, but it works for the chinese.

As for it confusing the heck out of you, that is dependt upon the individual. Not everyone is confused by Physics...for soem its complete gibersh, for others they enjoy it.

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

bhai pheena ke,

i hear wat ure trying to say

but the bottom line is

the only way to please vaheguru je, get sach khand, and mukhti is devition to vaheguuru je with a pure heart through naam simran, bani, sewa

thas wat will get u to vaheguru je

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Ryu Hayabusa]

For many births we were yogis, christains. muslims, hindus, sikhs, bhuddists etc. no one can say another path is useless, we have lessons to learn and are on this earth plane to find our true selves. God loves his creation and has created many paths for all of us, we cannot say others are useless. If you feel Sikhism is the greatest path then that is great (take advantage of this path because you are not gauranteed this in the next birth) but don't belittle other paths.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

[Mkhalsa]

pheena i understand what you are saying. But you have not experienced the gurmantar and the power it holds over ones heart. Guru sahib tells us all other ways are fruitless for us. if you want to be a gursikh, be a gursikh, theres no two ways about it, you cant be partly sikh and still do other things which are not gurmat, you cant have it both ways. remember sikhi is a fine path and one has to follow it carefully.

and ryu hyubasha makes a bit of sense.

anyway, if you want to gurmat answer, I have given it. given that this is a sikh forum, thats all that matters.

[Pheena]

pheena i understand what you are saying. But you have not experienced the gurmantar and the power it holds over ones heart. Guru sahib tells us all other ways are fruitless for us. if you want to be a gursikh, be a gursikh, theres no two ways about it, you cant be partly sikh and still do other things which are not gurmat, you cant have it both ways. remember sikhi is a fine path and one has to follow it carefully.

and ryu hyubasha makes a bit of sense.

anyway, if you want to gurmat answer, I have given it. given that this is a sikh forum, thats all that matters.

Mkhalsa ji, if i haven't experienced the power of the Gurmantra, then yuo haven't experienced the power of Yoga. If you had, you wouldn't call it ManMut. I am not saying one HAS to practice Yoga or so forth, but do not deny its potential. One has the right to choose a path and try to get into spirituality any way he can.

I apologize veer, but you have much to learn of what other Arsenals exist on this path. Yes you can only do naam simran and that will be enough to get you there, there is no doubt in my mind about that. But i do not consider Yoga Manmut as you so eligantly put it. Be open of other spiritual methods. Yoga is universal, just as jap/simran is. It is not copyrighted by the religion of Sikhism.

Ryu makes Complete sense, not, a bit of sense

r>

click on the link below perhaps you can broaden your gurmat knowledge.

http://sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness/vie...opic.ppa?t=4006

[harminder]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Here is an article by Yuktanand Singh Ji On sikhnet on Yoga and Kundalini(Kundalini is main thing practised by 3HO).

I found it helpful in understanding whats real place of Yoga in sikhi and otherwise.I hope others can also benefit from it.

Gurfateh

****

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....33;OpenDocument

***

Someone asked me a question about Kundalini. I would like to share my thoughts about Yoga and Kundalini with the Sangat. A short answer to this question, "What does Gurbani say about Kundalini," would be, not much. This word occurs only once in Gurbani, "Kundalini rises in Sat Sangat" (SGGS 1402:10).

Patanjali writes, "Yoga is removal of mind's noise. Then, the observer can become established in view of the Self." Gurbani does not oppose this form of Yoga. Rather Gurbani supports it. All the Shabads that seem to censure 'Yoga' condemn, in fact, only the physical activities and rituals touted as Yoga. Gurbani does not oppose the practice of correct Yoga that is suited for the modern people of this age. Educated Sikhs need to grow out of their phobia of this term.

Practice of, correct conduct (Yama), correct diet (Part of Niyama), correct posture (Asana), correct breathing (Prananyama), control of the senses (Pratyahara), mental concentration (Dharana), and meditation (Dhyana), to name just a few, are natural elements of a truly devoted Sikh's daily lifestyle. Correct form of '

;Yoga' is the natural outcome of a Sikh's submission to the Guru. However, it is practiced as subservient to the practice of Naam Simran. When a sincere desire to see god is awakened inside, one cannot help practicing the above naturally. Those who condemn these components, without any practice of their own, will continue to wander off the path.

Yoga exercises do not lead to God realization, per se. Most of the time they result in an obsession with the body and its functions, because they are self-directed, without submission to the Guru. Practice of different postures or some other physical disciplines as means to liberation, is not supported anywhere in Gurbani, either. Such acts only help boost one's ego. However, weights and martial arts training would also boost one's ego also. Should we condemn them too? Yoga is condemned in Gurbani if it dominates our outlook and makes us preoccupied with the body and its functions, if it keeps us away from Naam Simran and inner Bhakti, or if it turns into a mere show of rituals. There is no harm in following simple yoga exercises to improve health, including practice of simple Pranayama. We need to regard Yoga just like other exercises, only for what they are worth, no more and no less.

As we know, the word Kundalini refers to the energy (Prana), represented by a symbolic snake that is coiled up and sleeping at the level of Mooladhara Chakra. Under proper conditions, this energy rises through the Sushumna. Sushumna is a channel that runs from the base of spine to head. In ordinary humans the Sushumna is dormant and never used. As this channel opens, the energy rises and passes through each of the seven Chakras. Different qualities and perceptions are intensified at each Chakra. In Hatha Yoga and Raja Yoga, the control of Prana is accomplished through various exercises, including Pranayama, control of breath and energy in the channels called Ida and Pingala that run on either side of the Sushumna. However, according to Gurbani, cleansing of mi

nd, as a result of following Guru?s teaching leads to the knowledge and opening of the energy channels naturally (SGGS 974:6).

http://www.sikhnet.com/sggs/translation/0974.html

Gurbani does not dwell upon this subject because, rising of Kundalini is a manifestation of enlightenment, while, enlightenment is not a result of raising the Kundalini. Producing a symptom artificially does not lead to a particular condition. The same way, Kundalini cannot be raised to the Sahasrara (the highest) Chakra without enlightenment. Gurbani does not place the cart before the horse. A Sikh, therefore, seeks enlightenment rather than being busy raising the Kundalini. This is discussed at the end of "Sidh Gosht" (SGGS 944-6). We could say that the Sikh way of raising the Kundalini is the "pull" method (Kundalini rising naturally through pull of Gurbani) rather than the "push" method (desperate personal efforts) of a Yogi.

Kundalini is simply a way of describing the phenomena that occur in the body and, at the finer energy levels during our spiritual advancement. Even though certain exercises may help concentrate the energy in Sushumna, doing so by itself can not lead to enlightenment and the ultimate aim of Yoga is not fulfilled (SGGS 946:5). In fact energy directed to higher Chakras without proper direction and Bhakti under the guidance of Guru, leads to erratic and sometimes disastrous consequences. For instance, the earliest consequence of rising Kundalini would be intensified desire for sex, to release the pent-up energy. If Bhakti is not strong enough to subdue this urge for the higher aim, you can imagine how far one can advance spiritually.

A fruit that is ripened slowly and naturally, on the branch is much sweeter than the one that is plucked early and forced to ripen artificially (SGGS 1109:2). The same way, when Prana is controlled and channeled properly as a natural consequence of Naam Simran and following Guru

's teaching, the results are much sweeter. This is one reason that Guru Ji did not dwell upon controlling the Prana. As stated in the beginning, Kundalini rises spontaneously when we are in Sat Sangat. The animal desires are controlled easier through Sat Sangat also, and this results is success.

A common problem is that we do not know how to be in Sat Sangat. Mere sitting in a Gurudwara or Singing Gurbani is not Sat Sangat. We believe, and we claim a lot based upon what Gurbani says about the greatness of Sat Sangat, but this activity has little influence upon us. We have very little to show and to prove, the benefits and an uplifting of our own personality by Sat Sangat. This shows that something is missing. We need to learn how to be in Sat Sangat.

Humbly

Yuktanand Singh

[Pheena]

Excellent Post Harminder ji...Thanks for sharing.