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Ghulam Singh

Yoga west

25 posts in this topic

Hey guys,

I found out there there is a 3ho or Gora Singh yoga center in downtown vancouver, what is your take on yoga.

I was thinking of learning it actually, and try to get more flexible and stuff. Has anyone heard of caperio as well?

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my opinion of yoga.

its just like meditation really. simran, but just in different positions. i guess yoga can tackle your kaam, krodh, lobh, moh and ahnkar.

yoga keeps you calm. and to be calm is what you need to be a true gursikh.

i say its good.

go for it.

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I think yoga is good to do, relieves the stress in the body and you can do sit and do meditation for alot longer becuase there is no nagging stresses in the body. If you do yoga before meditation you will also find that your mind does not wander around nearly s much as it used to.

I don't know about 3HO yoga though, I heard that is not real Kundalini yoga.

Personally I don't need to go to yoga classes, all I need is my dvd player and a few dvds:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...?v=glance&s=dvd

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...?v=glance&s=dvd

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Sat Sri Akal:

Good exercise and means to get flexibility.

Assocation with Sikhism: None.

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the 3ho kud... wat ever i cant spell, yoga has spread to the UK . never been cause it was for women. even if it hadnt im to lazy any way :wub: @

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Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

yoga will not help u against kaam krodh lobh moh and hankar

yoga will help u in fexibilty

it will not get u to sach khand

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

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Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

yoga will not help u against kaam krodh lobh moh and hankar

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Correction, it can certainly assist you in controlling your mind, The mind is where all of those 5 desires lie. It is simply breating exercises which center your mind into calmness and composure. Its relaxes your body. If done with great effort, it certain can be a Great aid in doing Simran and other meditational Techniques.

but remember Yoga is not only for the purpose of exercise, it has other great benefits which are equal to doing meditation..given that it is being done correctly with the right technique.

Edited by Pheena

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According to gurmat (I have talked to many many singhs about this) it is perfectly fine in the sense of a way to excercise, stretch and calm the mind. Anything beyond that, ie using it as a way to meditate, is manmat. Why? because guru sahib has taught us the true way of meditation and puts down the yogic meditations repeatedly in gurbani.

One can use gurmat meditation, ie naam simran, while doing yogic excercises but one cannot use yogic meditation as it will be fruitless.

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Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

mkhalsa hit it right on the spot

simran and bani and sewa can defeat 5 doots

not yoga

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

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According to gurmat (I have talked to many many singhs about this) it is perfectly fine in the sense of a way to excercise, stretch and calm the mind. Anything beyond that, ie using it as a way to meditate, is manmat. Why? because guru sahib has taught us the true way of meditation and puts down the yogic meditations repeatedly in gurbani.

One can use gurmat meditation, ie naam simran, while doing yogic excercises but one cannot use yogic meditation as it will be fruitless.

The Gurus do not speak ill of Yoga, but they speak Ill of the Practioners of Yoga (the Yogis) who are lost in their ego of being a Yogi by mere symbols or by simply the actions of a yogi.

gauVI mhlw 5 ] 

Gauree, Fifth Mehl: 

gaVI mhlw 5 ] 

ga-orhee mehlaa 5. 

   

jog jugiq suin AwieE gur qy ] 

I came to the Guru, to learn the Way of Yoga.

jog jugiq suin AweAo gur qy ] 

jog jugat sun aa-i-o gur tay. 

   

mo kau siqgur sbid buJwieE ]1] rhwau ] 

The True Guru has revealed it to me through the Word of the Shabad. ||1||Pause||  mo ka siqgur sbid buJweAo ]1] rhw

a ] 

mo ka-o satgur sabad bujhaa-i-o. ||1|| rahaa-o.

gauVI mhlw 1 ] 

Gauree, First Mehl: 

gaVI mhlw 1 ] 

ga-orhee mehlaa 1. 

   

AiDAwqm krm kry qw swcw ] 

Those who live a spiritual lifestyle - they alone are true. 

AiDAwqm kmé kry qw swcw ] 

aDhi-aatam karam karay taa saachaa. 

   

mukiq Bydu ikAw jwxY kwcw ]1] 

What can the false know about the secrets of liberation? ||1|| 

mukiq Bydu ikAw jwxY kwcw ]1] 

mukat bhayd ki-aa jaanai kaachaa. ||1|| 

   

AYsw jogI jugiq bIcwrY ] 

Those who contemplate the Way are Yogis.

Eysw jogI jugiq bIcwrY ] 

aisaa jogee jugat beechaarai. 

   

pMc mwir swcu auir DwrY ]1] rhwau ] 

They conquer the five thieves, and enshrine the True Lord in the heart. ||1||Pause||  pNc mwir swcu air DwrY ]1] rhwa ] 

panch maar saach ur Dhaarai. ||1|| rahaa-o. 

   

ijs kY AMqir swcu vswvY ] 

Those who enshrine the True Lord deep within, 

ijs kY ANqir swcu vswvY ] 

jis kai antar saach vasaavai. 

   

jog jugiq kI kImiq pwvY ]2] 

realize the value of the Way of Yoga. ||2|| 

jog jugiq kI kImiq pwvY ]2] 

jog jugat kee keemat paavai. ||2|| 

The Gurus have presented yoga in their own way. It is not to say this is the only way that would be a prematur

e assumption and ignorent on our part.

gur kY bcin kIno rwju jogu ]

Through the Guru`s Word, I practice Raja Yoga, the Yoga of meditation and success. gur kY bcin kIno rwju jogu ]

gur kai bachan keeno raaj jog.

The Guru's word (his Bachan) are the instructions of a master on the Proper Technique. One must be taught how to do Yoga for it to be fruitfull, Taught by a master who himself is Enlightened.

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Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

bhai sahib je, go read the entire shabad

dont look at that one line

n BIjY rwgI nwdI byid ]

n bheejai raagee naadhee baedh ||

He is not won over by music, songs or the Vedas.

n BIjY surqI igAwnI joig ]

n bheejai surathee giaanee jog ||

He is not won over by intuitive wisdom, meditation or Yoga.

n BIjY sogI kIqY roij ]

n bheejai sogee keethai roj ||

He is not won over by feeling sad and depressed forever.

n BIjY rUpNØI mwlNØI rMig ]

n bheejai roopa(n)aee maala(n)aee ra(n)g ||

He is not won over by beauty, wealth and pleasures.

n BIjY qIriQ BivAY nµig ]

n bheejai theerathh bhaviai na(n)g ||

He is not won over by wandering naked at sacred shrines.

n BIjY dwqNØI kIqY puMin ]

n bheejai dhaatha(n)aee keethai pu(n)n ||

He is not won over by giving donations in charity.

n BIjY bwhir bYiTAw suMin ]

n bheejai baahar bait(h)iaa su(n)n ||

He is not won over by living alone in the wilderness.

n BIjY ByiV mrih iBiV sUr ]

n bheejai bhaerr marehi bhirr soor ||

He is not won over by fighting and dying as a warrior in battle.

n BIjY kyqy hovih DUV ]

n bheejai kaethae hovehi dhhoorr ||

He is not won over by becoming the dust of the masses.

lyKw ilKIAY mn kY Bwie ]

laekhaa likheeai man kai bhaae ||

The account is w

ritten of the loves of the mind.

nwnk BIjY swcY nwie ]2]

naanak bheejai saachai naae ||2||

O Nanak, the Lord is won over only by His Name. ||2||

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Edited by khalistani

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I have read the entire shabad bhai sahib. Here i'll post the entire verse.

gauVI mhlw 5 ] 

Gauree, Fifth Mehl: 

gaVI mhlw 5 ] 

ga-orhee mehlaa 5. 

   

gur kY bcin moih prm giq pweI ] 

Through the Guru`s Word, I have attained the supreme status.

gur kY bcin moih pmé giq pweé ] 

gur kai bachan mohi param gat paa-ee. 

   

guir pUrY myrI pYj rKweI ]1] 

The Perfect Guru has preserved my honor. ||1|| 

guir pUrY myrI pYj rKweé ]1] 

gur poorai mayree paij rakhaa-ee. ||1|| 

   

gur kY bcin iDAwieE moih nwau ] 

Through the Guru`s Word, I meditate on the Name

gur kY bcin iDAweAo moih nwa ] 

gur kai bachan Dhi-aa-i-o mohi naa-o. 

   

gur prswid moih imilAw Qwau ]1] rhwau ] 

By Guru`s Grace, I have obtained a place of rest. ||1||Pause|| 

gur prswid moih imilAw Qwa ]1] rhwa ] 

gur parsaad mohi mili-aa thaa-o. ||1|| rahaa-o. 

   

gur kY bcin suix rsn vKwxI ] 

I listen to the Guru`s Word, and chant it with my tongue

gur kY bcin suix rsn vKwxI ] 

gur kai bachan sun rasan vakhaanee. 

   

gur ikrpw qy AMimRq myrI bwxI ]2] 

By Guru`s Grace, my speech is like nectar. ||2|| 

;

gur ikrpw qy Amãq myrI bwxI ]2] 

gur kirpaa tay amrit mayree banee. ||2|| 

   

gur kY bcin imitAw myrw Awpu ] 

Through the Guru`s Word, my selfishness and conceit have been removed. 

gur kY bcin imitAw myrw Awpu ] 

gur kai bachan miti-aa mayraa aap. 

   

gur kI dieAw qy myrw vf prqwpu ]3] 

Through the Guru`s kindness, I have obtained glorious greatness. ||3|| 

gur kI deAw qy myrw vf prqwpu ]3] 

gur kee da-i-aa tay mayraa vad partaap. ||3|| 

   

gur kY bcin imitAw myrw Brmu ] 

Through the Guru`s Word, my doubts have been removed. 

gur kY bcin imitAw myrw Brmu ] 

gur kai bachan miti-aa mayraa bharam. 

   

gur kY bcin pyiKE sBu bRhmu ]4] 

Through the Guru`s Word, I see God everywhere. ||4|| 

gur kY bcin pyiKAo sBu bRHäu ]4] 

gur kai bachan paykhi-o sabh barahm. ||4|| 

   

gur kY bcin kIno rwju jogu ] 

Through the Guru`s Word, I practice Raja Yoga, the Yoga of meditation and success. 

gur kY bcin kIno rwju jogu ] 

gur kai bachan keeno raaj jog. 

   

gur kY sMig qirAw sBu logu ]5] 

In the Company of the Guru, all the people of the world are saved. ||5|| 

gur kY sNig qirAw sBu logu ]5] 

gur kai sang tari-aa sabh log. ||5|| 

   

gur kY bcin myry kwrj isiD ] 

Through the Guru`s Word, my affairs are resolved. 

gur kY bcin myry kwrj isiD ] 

gur kai bachan mayray kaaraj siDh. 

   

gur kY bcin pwieAw nwau iniD ]6] 

Through the Guru`s Word, I have obtained the nine treasures. ||6|| 

gur kY bcin pweAw nwa iniD ]6

gur kai bachan paa-i-aa naa-o niDh. ||6|| 

   

ijin ijin kInI myry gur kI Awsw ] 

Whoever places his hopes in my Guru, 

ijin ijin kInI myry gur kI Awsw ] 

jin jin keenee mayray gur kee aasaa. 

   

iqs kI ktIAY jm kI Pwsw ]7] 

has the noose of death cut away. ||7|| 

iqs kI ktIEy jm kI Pwsw ]7] 

tis kee katee-ai jam kee faasaa. ||7|| 

   

gur kY bcin jwigAw myrw krmu ] 

Through the Guru`s Word, my good karma has been awakened

gur kY bcin jwigAw myrw krmu ] 

gur kai bachan jaagi-aa mayraa karam. 

   

nwnk guru ByitAw pwrbRhmu ]8]8] 

O Nanak, meeting with the Guru, I have found the Supreme Lord God. ||8||8|| 

nwnk gu{ ByitAw pwrbRHäu ]8]8] 

naanak gur bhayti-aa paarbarahm. ||8||8||

Awsw mhlw 5 ] 

Aasaa, Fifth Mehl: 

Awsw mhlw 5 ] 

aasaa mehlaa 5. 

   

bwhru Doie AMqru mnu mYlw duie Taur Apuny Koey ] 

He washes outwardly, but within, his mind is filthy; thus he loses his place in both worlds. 

bwh{ Doe ANq{ mnu mYlw due Tar Apuny KoE ] 

baahar Dho-ay antar man mailaa du-ay tha-ur apunay kho-ay. 

   

eIhw kwim k®oiD moih ivAwipAw AwgY muis muis roey ]1] 

Here, he is engrossed in <admin-profanity filter activated> desire, anger and emotional attachment; hereafter, he shall sigh and weep. ||1|| 

eéhw kwim k®oiD moih ivAwipAw AwgY muis muis roE ]

1] 

eehaa kaam kroDh mohi vi-aapi-aa aagai mus mus ro-ay. ||1|| 

   

goivMd Bjn kI miq hY horw ] 

The way to vibrate and meditate on the Lord of the Universe is different. 

goivNd Bjn kI miq hY horw ] 

govind bhajan kee mat hai horaa. 

   

vrmI mwrI swpu n mreI nwmu n suneI forw ]1] rhwau ] 

Destroying the snake-hole, the snake is not killed; the deaf person does not hear the Lord`s Name. ||1||Pause|| 

vrmI mwrI swpu n mreé nwmu n suneé forw ]1] rhwa ] 

varmee maaree saap na mar-ee naam na sun-ee doraa. ||1|| rahaa-o. 

   

mwieAw kI ikriq Coif gvweI BgqI swr n jwnY ] 

He renounces the affairs of Maya, but he does not appreciate the value of devotional worship. 

mweAw kI ikriq Coif gvweé BgqI swr n jwnY ] 

maa-i-aa kee kirat chhod gavaa-ee bhagtee saar na jaanai. 

   

byd swsqR kau qrkin lwgw qqu jogu n pCwnY ]2] 

He finds fault with the Vedas and the Shaastras, and does not know the essence of Yoga. ||2|| 

byd sws» ka qrkin lwgw qqu jogu n pCwnY ]2] 

bayd saastar ka-o tarkan laagaa tat jog na pachhaanai. ||2|| 

   

auGir gieAw jYsw Kotw FbUAw ndir srwPw AwieAw ] 

He stands exposed, like a counterfeit coin, when inspected by the Lord, the Assayer. 

aGir geAw jYsw Kotw FbUAw ndir srwPw AweAw ] 

ughar ga-i-aa jaisaa khotaa dhaboo-aa nadar saraafaa aa-i-aa. 

   

AMqrjwmI sBu ikCu jwnY aus qy khw CpwieAw ]3] 

The Inner-knower, the Searcher of hearts, knows everything; how can we hide anything from Him? ||3|| 

ANqrjwmI sBu ikCu jwnY as qy khw CpweAw ]3] 

antarjaamee sabh kichh jaanai us tay kahaa chhapaa-i-aa. ||3|| 

&

nbsp;  

kUiV kpit bMic inMmunIAwdw ibnis gieAw qqkwly ] 

Through falsehood, fraud and deceit, the mortal collapses in an instant - he has no foundation at all. 

kUiV kpit bNic inMmunIAwdw ibnis geAw qqkwly ] 

koorh kapat banch nimmunee-aadaa binas ga-i-aa tatkaalay. 

   

siq siq siq nwnik kihAw ApnY ihrdY dyKu smwly ]4]3]42] 

Truly, truly, truly, Nanak speaks; look within your own heart, and realize this. ||4||3||42||

siq siq siq nwnik kihAw ApnY ihrdY dyKu smwly ]4]3]42] 

sat sat sat naanak kahi-aa apnai hirdai daykh samaalay. ||4||3||42|| 

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If one reads all the shabads about yogis, you will realize that guru sahib is describing a gursikh and saying that is a true yogi, much as guru sahib has described a true hindu and a true muslim and it has ended up being the description of a gursikh. But I have seen quite a few lines that say that yogic tantras etc are useless without the true name.

meditational practices of others are useless to us, why would we want to participate in them? we have the true meditational practice, the one that will bring us to sachkhand, to meditate in the ways of others is to deny our own gurmat and proper way. All the other ways are entirely useless. I have tried other ways, and basically they will confuse the heck out of you and really mess up your avastha and simran.

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If one reads all the shabads about yogis, you will realize that guru sahib is describing a gursikh and saying that is a true yogi, much as guru sahib has described a true hindu and a true muslim and it has ended up being the description of a gursikh. But I have seen quite a few lines that say that yogic tantras etc are useless without the true name.
When you say Gursikh are you implying a Sikh (ie: Amritdhari) ? It is not a matter of Majority of line are against yogis then they must be wrong...what of those words that i have posted? Is there a contradiction then or do we lack the knowledge on what the guru is actually are trying to tell us? Can both of them be right?

Also can you please tell me what you think the meaning of True Name is?

meditational practices of others are useless to us, why would we want to participate in them? we have the true meditational practice, the one that will bring us to sachkhand, to med

itate in the ways of others is to deny our own gurmat and proper way. All the other ways are entirely useless. I have tried other ways, and basically they will confuse the heck out of you and really mess up your avastha and simran.

You create your own boundries. It is one thing to follow one single path, but it is another to condemn the other path because it is useless to you. Bro, how is you saying, " All the other ways are entirely useless." any different from a muslim saying the only way to god is to be a Muslim? BTW do you ever eat out like food from different countries and stuff?? The only way i can undesrtand you point is thru this analogy. You can eat out once a while to experience other foods from different cultures. but in the end you always come back to Roti and Daal. The experience you gain from other cultures is just as importan in making you realize the broadness of foods that are available. Just because you are eating roti and daal, does not mean chinese food cannot diminish your hunger....Yes one can choose by their desire or what they feel will benefit them accordingly, but one has no right to say that it cannot dimish your hunger....for YOU it might not work, but it works for the chinese.

As for it confusing the heck out of you, that is dependt upon the individual. Not everyone is confused by Physics...for soem its complete gibersh, for others they enjoy it.

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Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

bhai pheena ke,

i hear wat ure trying to say

but the bottom line is

the only way to please vaheguru je, get sach khand, and mukhti is devition to vaheguuru je with a pure heart through naam simran, bani, sewa

thas wat will get u to vaheguru je

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

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For many births we were yogis, christains. muslims, hindus, sikhs, bhuddists etc. no one can say another path is useless, we have lessons to learn and are on this earth plane to find our true selves. God loves his creation and has created many paths for all of us, we cannot say others are useless. If you feel Sikhism is the greatest path then that is great (take advantage of this path because you are not gauranteed this in the next birth) but don't belittle other paths.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Edited by Ryu Hayabusa

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pheena i understand what you are saying. But you have not experienced the gurmantar and the power it holds over ones heart. Guru sahib tells us all other ways are fruitless for us. if you want to be a gursikh, be a gursikh, theres no two ways about it, you cant be partly sikh and still do other things which are not gurmat, you cant have it both ways. remember sikhi is a fine path and one has to follow it carefully.

and ryu hyubasha makes a bit of sense.

anyway, if you want to gurmat answer, I have given it. given that this is a sikh forum, thats all that matters.

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pheena i understand what you are saying. But you have not experienced the gurmantar and the power it holds over ones heart. Guru sahib tells us all other ways are fruitless for us. if you want to be a gursikh, be a gursikh, theres no two ways about it, you cant be partly sikh and still do other things which are not gurmat, you cant have it both ways. remember sikhi is a fine path and one has to follow it carefully.

and ryu hyubasha makes a bit of sense.

anyway, if you want to gurmat answer, I have given it. given that this is a sikh forum, thats all that matters.

Mkhalsa ji, if i haven't experienced the power of the Gurmantra, then yuo haven't experienced the power of Yoga. If you had, you wouldn't call it ManMut. I am not saying one HAS to practice Yoga or so forth, but do not deny its potential. One has the right to choose a path and try to get into spirituality any way he can.

I apologize veer, but you have much to learn of what other Arsenals exist on this path. Yes you can only do naam simran and that will be enough to get you there, there is no doubt in my mind about that. But i do not consider Yoga Manmut as you so eligantly put it. Be open of other spiritual methods. Yoga is universal, just as jap/simran is. It is not copyrighted by the religion of Sikhism.

Ryu makes Complete sense, not, a bit of sense

r>

click on the link below perhaps you can broaden your gurmat knowledge.

http://sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness/vie...opic.ppa?t=4006

Edited by Pheena

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Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Here is an article by Yuktanand Singh Ji On sikhnet on Yoga and Kundalini(Kundalini is main thing practised by 3HO).

I found it helpful in understanding whats real place of Yoga in sikhi and otherwise.I hope others can also benefit from it.

Gurfateh

****

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....33;OpenDocument

***

Someone asked me a question about Kundalini. I would like to share my thoughts about Yoga and Kundalini with the Sangat. A short answer to this question, "What does Gurbani say about Kundalini," would be, not much. This word occurs only once in Gurbani, "Kundalini rises in Sat Sangat" (SGGS 1402:10).

Patanjali writes, "Yoga is removal of mind's noise. Then, the observer can become established in view of the Self." Gurbani does not oppose this form of Yoga. Rather Gurbani supports it. All the Shabads that seem to censure 'Yoga' condemn, in fact, only the physical activities and rituals touted as Yoga. Gurbani does not oppose the practice of correct Yoga that is suited for the modern people of this age. Educated Sikhs need to grow out of their phobia of this term.

Practice of, correct conduct (Yama), correct diet (Part of Niyama), correct posture (Asana), correct breathing (Prananyama), control of the senses (Pratyahara), mental concentration (Dharana), and meditation (Dhyana), to name just a few, are natural elements of a truly devoted Sikh's daily lifestyle. Correct form of '

;Yoga' is the natural outcome of a Sikh's submission to the Guru. However, it is practiced as subservient to the practice of Naam Simran. When a sincere desire to see god is awakened inside, one cannot help practicing the above naturally. Those who condemn these components, without any practice of their own, will continue to wander off the path.

Yoga exercises do not lead to God realization, per se. Most of the time they result in an obsession with the body and its functions, because they are self-directed, without submission to the Guru. Practice of different postures or some other physical disciplines as means to liberation, is not supported anywhere in Gurbani, either. Such acts only help boost one's ego. However, weights and martial arts training would also boost one's ego also. Should we condemn them too? Yoga is condemned in Gurbani if it dominates our outlook and makes us preoccupied with the body and its functions, if it keeps us away from Naam Simran and inner Bhakti, or if it turns into a mere show of rituals. There is no harm in following simple yoga exercises to improve health, including practice of simple Pranayama. We need to regard Yoga just like other exercises, only for what they are worth, no more and no less.

As we know, the word Kundalini refers to the energy (Prana), represented by a symbolic snake that is coiled up and sleeping at the level of Mooladhara Chakra. Under proper conditions, this energy rises through the Sushumna. Sushumna is a channel that runs from the base of spine to head. In ordinary humans the Sushumna is dormant and never used. As this channel opens, the energy rises and passes through each of the seven Chakras. Different qualities and perceptions are intensified at each Chakra. In Hatha Yoga and Raja Yoga, the control of Prana is accomplished through various exercises, including Pranayama, control of breath and energy in the channels called Ida and Pingala that run on either side of the Sushumna. However, according to Gurbani, cleansing of mi

nd, as a result of following Guru?s teaching leads to the knowledge and opening of the energy channels naturally (SGGS 974:6).

http://www.sikhnet.com/sggs/translation/0974.html

Gurbani does not dwell upon this subject because, rising of Kundalini is a manifestation of enlightenment, while, enlightenment is not a result of raising the Kundalini. Producing a symptom artificially does not lead to a particular condition. The same way, Kundalini cannot be raised to the Sahasrara (the highest) Chakra without enlightenment. Gurbani does not place the cart before the horse. A Sikh, therefore, seeks enlightenment rather than being busy raising the Kundalini. This is discussed at the end of "Sidh Gosht" (SGGS 944-6). We could say that the Sikh way of raising the Kundalini is the "pull" method (Kundalini rising naturally through pull of Gurbani) rather than the "push" method (desperate personal efforts) of a Yogi.

Kundalini is simply a way of describing the phenomena that occur in the body and, at the finer energy levels during our spiritual advancement. Even though certain exercises may help concentrate the energy in Sushumna, doing so by itself can not lead to enlightenment and the ultimate aim of Yoga is not fulfilled (SGGS 946:5). In fact energy directed to higher Chakras without proper direction and Bhakti under the guidance of Guru, leads to erratic and sometimes disastrous consequences. For instance, the earliest consequence of rising Kundalini would be intensified desire for sex, to release the pent-up energy. If Bhakti is not strong enough to subdue this urge for the higher aim, you can imagine how far one can advance spiritually.

A fruit that is ripened slowly and naturally, on the branch is much sweeter than the one that is plucked early and forced to ripen artificially (SGGS 1109:2). The same way, when Prana is controlled and channeled properly as a natural consequence of Naam Simran and following Guru

's teaching, the results are much sweeter. This is one reason that Guru Ji did not dwell upon controlling the Prana. As stated in the beginning, Kundalini rises spontaneously when we are in Sat Sangat. The animal desires are controlled easier through Sat Sangat also, and this results is success.

A common problem is that we do not know how to be in Sat Sangat. Mere sitting in a Gurudwara or Singing Gurbani is not Sat Sangat. We believe, and we claim a lot based upon what Gurbani says about the greatness of Sat Sangat, but this activity has little influence upon us. We have very little to show and to prove, the benefits and an uplifting of our own personality by Sat Sangat. This shows that something is missing. We need to learn how to be in Sat Sangat.

Humbly

Yuktanand Singh

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I think with the concept of yoga, it totally depends on how you use it and what expectations you have of it. If you want to use yoga as an exercise then you'll experience it differently... If you use yoga as a tool to enhance one's consciousness, then you will also experience it differently. Similarly, if you use meditation/naam simeran and have an expectation to reach a higher spiritual level, then your experience of it will be different again. What I believe is that with any of these methods, we should not have any expectations. For example, if we are doing naam simeran, and we only do it because we think we'll reach God, then it's not as effective than if you're doing simeran from your heart and soul without any expectation - but you're doing it from pure love. So basically, my point is that Yoga can either be beneficial or useless to a person, depending on how they use it and how they practice it. If you use yoga as a way to connect to God and to remember our source of existence with every breath that you take in, then I don't think it's a problem, because it's just another method of meditation.

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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Someone asked me a question about Kundalini. I would like to share my thoughts about Yoga and Kundalini with the Sangat. A short answer to this question, "What does Gurbani say about Kundalini," would be, not much. This word occurs only once in Gurbani, "Kundalini rises in Sat Sangat" (SGGS 1402:10).

Patanjali writes, "Yoga is removal of mind's noise. Then, the observer can become established in view of the Self." Gurbani does not oppose this form of Yoga. Rather Gurbani supports it. All the Shabads that seem to censure 'Yoga' condemn, in fact, only the physical activities and rituals touted as Yoga. Gurbani does not oppose the practice of correct Yoga that is suited for the modern people of this age. Educated Sikhs need to grow out of their phobia of this term.

Practice of, correct conduct (Yama), correct diet (Part of Niyama), correct posture (Asana), correct breathing (Prananyama), control of the senses (Pratyahara), mental concentration (Dharana), and meditation (Dhyana), to name just a few, are natural elements of a truly devoted Sikh's daily lifestyle. Correct form of 'Yoga' is the natural outcome of a Sikh's submission to the Guru. However, it is practiced as subservient to the practice of Naam Simran. When a sincere desire to see god is awakened inside, one cannot help practicing the above naturally. Those who condemn these components, without any practice of their own, will continue to wander off the path.

Yoga exercises do not lead to God realization, per se. Most of the time they result in an obsession with the body and its functions, because they are self-directe

d, without submission to the Guru. Practice of different postures or some other physical disciplines as means to liberation, is not supported anywhere in Gurbani, either. Such acts only help boost one's ego. However, weights and martial arts training would also boost one's ego also. Should we condemn them too? Yoga is condemned in Gurbani if it dominates our outlook and makes us preoccupied with the body and its functions, if it keeps us away from Naam Simran and inner Bhakti, or if it turns into a mere show of rituals. There is no harm in following simple yoga exercises to improve health, including practice of simple Pranayama. We need to regard Yoga just like other exercises, only for what they are worth, no more and no less.

As we know, the word Kundalini refers to the energy (Prana), represented by a symbolic snake that is coiled up and sleeping at the level of Mooladhara Chakra. Under proper conditions, this energy rises through the Sushumna. Sushumna is a channel that runs from the base of spine to head. In ordinary humans the Sushumna is dormant and never used. As this channel opens, the energy rises and passes through each of the seven Chakras. Different qualities and perceptions are intensified at each Chakra. In Hatha Yoga and Raja Yoga, the control of Prana is accomplished through various exercises, including Pranayama, control of breath and energy in the channels called Ida and Pingala that run on either side of the Sushumna. However, according to Gurbani, cleansing of mind, as a result of following Guru?s teaching leads to the knowledge and opening of the energy channels naturally (SGGS 974:6).

http://www.sikhnet.com/sggs/translation/0974.html

Gurbani does not dwell upon this subject because, rising of Kundalini is a manifestation of enlightenment, while, enlightenment is not a result of raising the Kundalini. Producing a symptom artificially does not lead to a particular condition. The

same way, Kundalini cannot be raised to the Sahasrara (the highest) Chakra without enlightenment. Gurbani does not place the cart before the horse. A Sikh, therefore, seeks enlightenment rather than being busy raising the Kundalini. This is discussed at the end of "Sidh Gosht" (SGGS 944-6). We could say that the Sikh way of raising the Kundalini is the "pull" method (Kundalini rising naturally through pull of Gurbani) rather than the "push" method (desperate personal efforts) of a Yogi.

Kundalini is simply a way of describing the phenomena that occur in the body and, at the finer energy levels during our spiritual advancement. Even though certain exercises may help concentrate the energy in Sushumna, doing so by itself can not lead to enlightenment and the ultimate aim of Yoga is not fulfilled (SGGS 946:5). In fact energy directed to higher Chakras without proper direction and Bhakti under the guidance of Guru, leads to erratic and sometimes disastrous consequences. For instance, the earliest consequence of rising Kundalini would be intensified desire for sex, to release the pent-up energy. If Bhakti is not strong enough to subdue this urge for the higher aim, you can imagine how far one can advance spiritually.

A fruit that is ripened slowly and naturally, on the branch is much sweeter than the one that is plucked early and forced to ripen artificially (SGGS 1109:2). The same way, when Prana is controlled and channeled properly as a natural consequence of Naam Simran and following Guru's teaching, the results are much sweeter. This is one reason that Guru Ji did not dwell upon controlling the Prana. As stated in the beginning, Kundalini rises spontaneously when we are in Sat Sangat. The animal desires are controlled easier through Sat Sangat also, and this results is success.

A common problem is that we do not know how to be in Sat Sangat. Mere sitting in a Gurudwara or Singing Gurbani is not Sat Sangat. We believe, and we claim a lot based upon what Gurbani says about the greatness

of Sat Sangat, but this activity has little influence upon us. We have very little to show and to prove, the benefits and an uplifting of our own personality by Sat Sangat. This shows that something is missing. We need to learn how to be in Sat Sangat.

Humbly

Yuktanand Singh

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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

The quotation marks do not copy well in this program. So I decided to post again, with some additions. Someone asked me about the seat of Consciousness in the body. The Sidh group had asked this question from Guru Nanak Dev Ji, and his answer is discussed in the Sidh Gosht (SGGS 944:9) particularly in 58th through 67th verses. They can be read here:

http://www.sikhnet.com/sggs/translation/0944.html

Discussion of this subject can be as complicated as we want it to be. According to the ancient scriptures, there are three forms of bodies (Sharira) that overlap, and then, there are seven Chakras (energy centers). Gurbani does not find these details very important. This is why they are not elaborated. Just like, wearing clothes. Regardless of how many layers or where they connect to each other, they are still clothes.

Here is one way of looking at this: Where is the consciousness located in a body that we experience in a dream? Wakeful life is quite similar to our dreams in many ways. The only difference is that it is much stronger, persistent, and it is shared by others, because, it is a "dream" of the world mind. But this concept is useful only to understand the mentalistic nature of reality, not that the world is not real. S Dalip Singh Ji has tried to touch, at other discussion groups, the importance of understanding our dreams in order to understand the nature of our existence. It may help to read his writings also, for diversity.

Another way to view this phenomenon would be through an example of the radio. Wher

e exactly, is the music situated, what part of the radio is connected to the signals of sound, and where are those signals located? In the same way, the consciousness is not limited to the body. But, we are imprisoned in the body only because of ignorance and constant erroneous conditioning through many lifetimes (SGGS 651:1).

Each one of the above is severely limited in describing reality because living beings are different than these examples. Gurbani tells us that consciousness does reside in a particular area in the body. Knowing the general area of the seat of consciousness in our body helps us understand some of our spiritual experiences. This could be the only reason that it is mentioned in Gurbani. Guru Nanak emphasizes right from the start that Shabad (and therefore, consciousness) is all pervading (SGGS 944:12). Therefore, it is important to know that meditation is not confined to these centers.

It is also important to understand that, the seat of consciousness is not in some anatomic structure in the body. Organs of the body do not harbor consciousness. Physical evidence points to brain as the control center. However, some day, when we can transplant the brain, we will find that brain is also only a medium, just another instrument.

Let us explore, briefly, the Sidh Gosht. There are several important terms thrown at the reader. To emphasize that "Mann" (mind) cannot be contained in the body, it is called an elephant, in addition to the reason that mind is very hard to control. Then there is mention of "Traisat Ungulvaaee" (the Ten-finger-breadth measure) (SGGS 944:9) and "Hirda" (Heart level, the fourth Chakra) "Naabh Kamal" (Lotus at the navel level, the third Chakra) in the subsequent verses.

I do not want to bore everyone with details. The heart and navel levels are the centers where the other two of our three bodies communicate with the visible body. Everyone knows instinctively that the seat of consciousness is at the heart level. This center is located where we poin

t with our own hand when we point at ourselves. It is ten-finger-breadths (which is, simply the distance between each Chakra) above the navel. The nature of the mind is such that wherever the attention is, that is where the mind is. But, when the mind is still, the consciousness rests at the heart level (SGGS 945:11).

We will notice that while the Sidh group wants to discuss the centers inside body, Guru Nanak Dev Ji leads them to find Naam and Shabad, in the heart, which is all pervading. This is one major difference between the Yoga and Sikh Panth. When Shabad enters the inner consciousness, the mind finds that it is connected to the universe, because Shabad pervades everything (SGGS 945:12). As you know, just like rays from the sun, or drops from the sea, we are all connected to God, Waheguru (SGGS 846:17).

Please forgive me if I made any mistake in describing Gurmat.

Humbly

Yuktanand Singh

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waheguru jee ka khalsa! waheguru jee kee fateh!!

from what i've read and understand of gurbani when it comes to yoga is that when you are doing naam simran you are not meant to try and control your breathing.

swaas swaas is meant to be done with your natural breathing pattern. while walking, eating (saas giraas), working...everything you do in your daily life you should be doing simran with your natural breathing.

yoga is a great way to get into shape and keep flexible and fit enough to sit longer during keertans, while doing simran etc etc. and it's an excellent way to keep healthy.

but i think in terms of yoga being used as a form of naam simran it doesnt' have anything to do with sikhi.

bhul chuck maaf karna jee

bismaadh kaur

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Think of it this way: To cross the world ocean and reach the shores of God-realization we need to ride across in a ship. Naam is that ship. Think of the path of Kundalini Yoga as another ship. If you put one foot in one ship, and the other foot in the other ship, you will drown.

Sikhi marg and kundalini yoga marg are different. Another difference: To open the dasam dwar Sikhi relies on God's Grace. Kundalini yoga uses force, which could be dangerous. pray.gif

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