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Who makes it to Sachkhand?

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Today I wanna know more bout Sachkhand. I have attended Bhog of Akhandpaaths for many individuals who have died. Generally I have seen that regardless of whether the person was Amritdhari or not, the secretary says "Sachkhand nivasi...." Many of these people claimed to be of a caste like Jatt, they used some last name like Dhillon, they cut their hair, they didn't do paath as prescribed, basically they were the opposite of a Gursikh.

So now I'm wondering...if these kinda ppl can make it to Sachkhand, then what's the point of being a Gursikh? :T:

Secondly, how do we know if someone is in Sachkhand? Is it even necessary for someone like the secretary at the Bhog or at the funeral service to say "Sachkhand nivasi phlana Singh..." Do we need to be told if a person has made it to Sachkhand?

I dunno...maybe I'm juz being too narrow minded. :lol:

Below is what Mkhalsa ji posted in my other thread (Why did God give different messages?):

Regarding everyone going to waheguroo/sachkhand, here is a good post from tapoban.org...

QUOTE 

Author: Kulbir Singh

Date: 08-18-03 07:53

Someone mentioned that Khands are merely s

piritual states and not actual realms where Bhagats reside. According to Gurbani (Siri Jap jee Sahib) there are 5 khands above our place of dwelling i.e. this world including solar system and other stars we see.

DHARAM KHAND

Pauri 34 of Siri Jap jee Sahib explains Dharam Khand. This is the khand where our soul goes to after death. This is where Dharam Rai is stationed. Almost every religion explains this khand in some form or the other. This Khand is huge and this is where heavens and hells are. Dharam Rai has an army of millions and millions jammdoots who control the whole Dharam Khand. Siri Jap jee Sahib summarizes this Khand as follows:

There are countless seasons, waters, fires, fires and low-lands like Pataal. Amidst such wide variety of things is the land of Dharam Khand. There countless kind of creatures reside. These creatures are there suffering punishments or getting rewarded for their good deeds. Everybody is judged according to their deeds done on Karam Bhoomi (our Earth or likes of it). The darbar of Dharam Rai is based on truth. Panch Jan i.e. the accepted Gursikhs get recognition and respect there. Such Gursikhs are recognised by the nishaan (symbol, or mark) on their forehead that appears as we do bhagtee of True Naam. All this may seem like fiction here but once we get there, we will realize how true it is (Nanak, Gaiyaan jaapai jaaye).

GYAAN KHAND

No matter who one is, everyone has to come to Dharam Khand. Gursikhs go there as well as Manmukhs. The difference is that when the Gursikhs arrive there, no record of them is found there and because of the divine mark on their forehead, they are very well respected there. Manmukhs on the other hand get stiff punishments there and are sent to hell and thereafter back to earth to go through the 8.4 million forms, depending on their karma.

Gursikhs and other good people who are above heaven move on to the next khand i.e. Gyaan Khand. This is a very huge Khand and references to this Khand too are found in va

rious religious books. This is where most of the prophets and saints of other religions fall.

The ones who worship Siri Krishna, Vishnu jee, Shiv jee, and Mohammadans etc. fall in this Khand. This is where Baikunth i.e. residing place of Siri Krishna and his devotees, Buddha, and other great religious leaders are. This place is very beautiful and there are countless Krishna, Shiv jees, Buddhas there. The bhagats like Dhru reside in this Khand. This Khand is very great Khand and only fortunate ones reach here. The only drawback is that the residents of this Khand are not eternal. When Vaheguru takes back his creation, this Khand gets destroyed.

SHARAM KHAND, KARAM KHAND AND SACH KHAND

This is the third Khand and hereon it is impossible to describe the Khands. Sharam Khand and the two Khands above this i.e. Karam Khand and Sach Khand are beyond description. One thing is for sure that the way we are today, we cannot comprehend anything there in Sharam Khand. For this reason when one reaches this Khand, one gets new senses, mind, intelligence and surti. The reason is that with old senses and mann, budh, we cannot comprehend anything there. Sharam Khand is essential for Bhagats before they can enter Karam Khand and Sach Khand. Sharam Khand is like prep Khand for entering Karam Khand and Sach Khand. This Khand is extremely beautiful. Everything there is just too beautiful to describe. Guru Sahib just says that no one should bother to describe anything there as it would be futile and such person who tries to say anything about this Khand have to regret.

Karam Khand and Sach Khand exist in such fashion as a house and varaandaah exist. Varaandah is like the outskirts of a house but within the boundery of the property. Normally the top of the varandaah is ceiling. From Karam Khand one can view the inside of the house and know what is going on inside but can’t go inside. There is immense Anand (Bliss) in this Khand. Only real warriors who have subdued all bikaars can enter this Khand. This Khan

d – Karam Khand is accessible mostly to Gursikhs of Guru Nanak Dev jee but some rare ones who do kamaayee of Kirtam Naam (qualitative names like Raam, Gobind etc.) and give their best shot to it, but are not Gursikhs of Guru Nanak can reach Karam Khand. Both Karam Khand and Sach Khand are eternal Khands.

Sachkhand is accessible only to Gursikhs. There Vaheguru resides in comprehensible form to Gursikhs. Gursikhs stay absorbed in the bliss of Darshan of Vaheguru. Sach Khand is huge and the whole creation including other 4 Khands are within Sach Khand. Sach Khand surrounds the whole creation and is inside the whole creation. In essence Sach Khand is Vaheguru himself. In Sach Khand, the bhagats don’t lose their identity. The Ten Gurus occupy the top position along with Vaheguru. It is futile to write anything about it. Guru Nanak Sahib has written that to describe Sach Khand is like chewing iron (Nanak, Kathna KaraRaa Saar).

Dasam Duaar is a shortcut to Sach Khand. It is like a door to Sach Khand. Sitting here, one can have all the Anand of Sach Khand and know what is going on there.

When I hear naive stories of some pro-Raagmala people, I only can do afsos at their meagre thinking and intelligence. One of the story has been spread by a so called sant and it narrates how when Bhai Sahib died and was being taken to Sach Khand, he was stopped by the doormen outside Sach Khand. They told Bhai Sahib that since he did not read Raagmala, he cannot enter Sach Khand. What can you say of such childish stories. People who spread such stories have no idea what Sach Khand is and what Dasam Duaar is. Bhai Sahib used to stay in Sach Khand even while he was in this Earth. For him death was no change at all. Who would have stopped him from going to Sach Khand? And there are doormen in Sach Khand? All this is totally abusrd and nonsense.

What I have written is based on reading Gurbani, Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee’s books, Bhai Sahib Vir Singh jee’s b

ooks and talking to Gursikhs. If I have written anything against Gurmat, Sangat Baksha lavay, Guru Sahib baksh layen.

Daas,

Kulbir Singh

I think this is another example of LAXITY in the system. I think some ppl don't wanna admit that some have gotten themselves stuck in 8.4 million joons. :wub: Example: we know the man was big time sinner cuz he lied to ppl and did other crap in his life thats against Gurmat...but at his funeral service and at his Bhog the speakers say he was SUCH a GOOD guy and he was a VERY LOVING person, blah blah blah. Sure, thats all good, we should focus on the good things a person did. But I think that if every time I go to a funeral they say the person is a Sachkhand nivasi, then theres something wrong. no.gif

Lets juz take this quick example. There are many Gursikhs in the world who have died, and as we assume, they are now Sachkhand nivasis. I don't live according to the Gurmat way, but when I die if the speakers call me a Sachkhand nivasi, won't that be the biggest joke ever? :) Thats why I think Sachkhand wasn't meant for everyone who dies here. I'm sure theres lots more ppl who get themselves stuck in the 8.4 million joons.

of course, I could be wrong. So share your thoughts/opinions or facts/Gurbani. :)

thanx.

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Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

This is a really interesting topic. I have been wondering about this myself. It's ironic how when someone dies they are talked about as a Gurmukh, regardless about how their lives were lead. I suppose this is probably done as a sensitve gesture to the family of the deceased.

A real GurMukh will know themselves that they have made it to Sachkhand. They will know their day and time of depature to Sachkhand. I suppose in reality it's of no concern to anyone else apart from that individual, so in that respect saying "Sachkhand nivasi...." at someones funeral is a waste of time.

I read something in 'Society of Saints' written by Sant Jagjit Singh Herkowalwalay about around the departure of Sant Jwala Singh. Need to re-read that section and I will post what was written as I remember it was quite interesting and relevant to this discussion.

Look forward to some good responses on this topic.

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Many of these people claimed to be of a caste like Jatt, they used some last name like Dhillon, they cut their hair, they didn't do paath as prescribed, basically they were the opposite of a Gursikh.

Waheguru doeant look into Caste, we're all just as dear as each other to Waheguru.

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Not only Gursikhs/Gurmukh goto sachkhand, any true devotee/bhagat of Akaal Purkh goes and resides in the feet of the lord.

He/she could be born of any religion, as long as they have true love/devotion for the lord, they will goto sach khand.

My two cents! ^_^

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Veer Khalsa Jee, I don’t think a person of any religion can go to Sachkhand. To begin with their goals are all separate.

Sikh’s goal is Sachkhand

Muslim’s goal is Janat (with many hoors, a big mansion etc).

Hindu has a number of different goals.

-Vaishnava Hindu’s goal is “Vaikunth”.

-Shaivate Hindu’s goal is “Kelaash Parbat”.

-Average Hindu wants swarag (the abode of Inder Dev).

-Some Hindu’s want Brahmpuri, which is the abode of Brahma.

I don’t see how a Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jew etc all of whom have different goals can get Sachkhand, and that too without getting Naam. I think that we have made many Gurmukhi terms like Brahmgiani, Sachkhand, Sant very cheep. We just award these terms to every Tom, <admin-profanity filter activated>, and Harry out there without thinking whether or not that person deserves these terms.

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thanks for the textbook answer singh ji.. :wub:

Bhagat Kabeer ji, Bhagat Ravidass ji, Bhagat Fareed ji, ....... Need I say more?

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ooh and BHAGAT DHANNA JI!

Daas recently wrote response to this article - but no1 responded :wub:

here it is

bhull chukk maaf

GurFateh

Are Sikhs some kind of 'chosen people'

I thought Sikhi thought that -

'Jin prem kio tin hi Prab Payo'

and Not that those who follow the teaches of only the Gurus can come to Sach Khanda

and those who follow the loving teachings of Jesus or someone can NOT come to sachkhanda

also

the 5 'stages' of Khands you have told us - is 'Sach khand' the only one that merges into Waheguru

so its like a point system instead - only if ur 100% u merge with VAheguru

If ur a 'Mohammadan' you don't merge with Waheguru, but ur on stage 2/5 no matter how much devotion you have?

Something doesn't make sense - Cause f im not mistaken - Guru NAnak Dev jee didn't say, that those who follow my teachings are 'choosen people'

rest will only come to a certain level.

Bhagat Dhanna Jee - if Im not mistaken, Bhagat jee found God in a Stone - jus cause he didn't use the 'Sikh method' means he didn't come to Such Khand ?

Everyone before the Guru's time - out of all the millions of people living

no1 went to Sachkhand - do SIkhs have a monopoly over Sach Khand?

Bhul chuk di khima bakhsni

WAheguru ji

ka Khalsa

Waheguru ji ki Fateh

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Not only Gursikhs/Gurmukh goto sachkhand, any true devotee/bhagat of Akaal Purkh goes and resides in the feet of the lord.

He/she could be born of any religion, as long as they have true love/devotion for the lord, they will goto sach khand.

My two cents! ^_^

Actually a non gursikh who has really meditated on waheguru's name still cannot go to sachkand as you have to follow the guru's way, which is by being a gursikh. The guru is described as the ladder to Waheguru. When you have reached Sachkhand you have reached Waheguru!

However that non gursikh can reach karam khand (second highest), and in karam khand you can see sachkand but not go in there.

Read the 1st post properly!

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Everyone before the Guru's time - out of all the millions of people living

no1 went to Sachkhand - do SIkhs have a monopoly over Sach Khand?

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

No religion is the same there are a lot of contradicitons between each. From reincarnation to drinking wine. Meat eating, smoking, cutting of hair are all conflictions between different religions.

As a Sikh I believe in what my Guru is telling me and aim to follow the path that is clearly shown to me. As a Sikh you need to have a 110% confidence in Guruji.

Gurbani discusses Sackhand and tells us a the way to get to Sachkhand. Whether it conflicts with the Islamic or Christian way or any other religion is of no concern to us. We just focus on our path.

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Actually a non gursikh who has really meditated on waheguru's name still cannot go to sachkand as you have to follow the guru's way, which is by being a gursikh. The guru is described as the ladder to Waheguru. When you have reached Sachkhand you have reached Waheguru!

However that non gursikh can reach karam khand (second highest), and in karam khand you can see sachkand but not go in there.

Read the 1st post properly!

Ok, so you're trying to say, if someone without a Guru, but has the most love for akaal purkh, and devoted his entire life in living a good way, never hurt others, and lets just say did everything the gurus said for the sake of arguement, BUT never had a Guru in his/her life, cannot be let in though the doors of sachkhand? :wub:

I doubt any of us have been to sachkhand, so who are we to say who CAN or CAN'T goto sachkhand, simply we have not a single clue.

Who was Guru Nanak Dev ji's guru, he was directed by the teachings of God, not of a presence of anyone, but only of Akaal Purkh. Sure, you have to follow certain teachings for which you do sadh sangat, Guru sahib did sangat of many sants/mahapurkhs.

sqsMgiq sqgu

ru pweIAY Aihinis sbid slwih ]1] rhwau ]

The True Guru is found in the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation. Day and night, praise the Word of His Shabad. ||1||Pause||

The teachings are GURU itself, the basic concept of Sikhi, and those same teachings are in SGGS, without the teachings one can't reach akaal purkh. Bhagat Kabeer ji, Bhagat Fareed ji, Bhagat Dhanna ji, all had the same teachings, who was their Guru? It was the same teachings.

Therefore, you don't necessarily have to have a Guru, but rather the teachings inshrined within you to get to that stage.

Bhul chuk muaf! ^_^

Edited by Khãlsã

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Veer ji, 110% belief exists that the path of the Guru will lead to Sach Khand, but there is no doubt that

'JIn Prem Kio Tin hi Prabh Payo'

Like Bhagat Dhanna ji

bhull chukk maaf, and thanks for your wonderful post ^_^

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

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Bhagat Kabeer ji, Bhagat Ravidass ji, Bhagat Fareed ji, ....... Need I say more?

Khalsa Jee it’s interesting you mentioned this. They have an similar topic concerning this going on in the Tapoban forum in which it is argued that the Bhagats were all contemporaries and Sikhs of Guru Nanak Dev Jee. The link is:

http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.ppa?f=1...1&i=8841&t=8841

I’m convinced after reading that thread that the Bhagats were infact Sikhs and had met Guru Nanak Dev Jee. It makes perfect sense once you read the facts on that thread.

Edited by Singh47

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Guest mehtab

1st it was whether simran by non amritdharis is of any use

then it was whether non-Sikhs no matter how pure they are can make it to sachkhand

i have a suggestion : lets open up an agency which guarantees entry to sachkhand once u register. the only criteria u have to meet is that u take amrit and become a sikh. it doesnt matter if u have any love for God or Guruji, or if u are humble, or have any Gurmukh qualities mentioned in SGGS. Just take Amrit and we guarantee u that u will make it to sachkhand. In case u don't, please send us a postcard saying u didn't make it coz dharamraj kicked ur butt saying u r full of filth, and we will refund all ur money.

this way u can convince ppl to take amrit without actually having to stand upto the standards that are required to be maintained, and hey, u just started a whole new business of selling religion like christians and muslims!

way to go!

Edited by Rochak Malang

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Singh47 jee ^_^ ,

thanks for the link...i REALLY learnt alot from the posts made there. However as it was stated there by a member; whether Bhagats/Sufis met Guru Sahib(an) does not mean that they became Sikhs, as we like to define the term, ie one who takes Amrit and believes only in SGGS,etc. There could have been mutual understanding and spiritual love between Guru Sahiban and Bhagats, hence their Banis is in SGGS [and they asked for this also]. No doubt, Bhagats could have met Guru Sahiban as souls, or after they left the physical robe.

But for me, Sikhi is eternal...always existed, as God has always existed and SaachKhand has always been there. Bhagats had similar thoughts on how to come closer to God, and therefore they are called Bhagats and people with high spirits. Always have people existed how loved God...and SaachKhand has always been open for God's devotees.

Even though the Bhagats has become 'Sikhs', it does not matter who is going to SaachKhand. These are two seperate discussions.

Edited by Deep Singh

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lol rochak, that's a great idea, imagine how many people'd write back lol. But seriously, if people had read the article at the top, they would have seen this.

Sachkhand is accessible only to Gursikhs.

There's actually a very plausible explanation for this. It isn't because one religion is favored over another or anything, it's because in gurbani it says that god is inaccessbile to anybody that cuts their hair. That means, that you can reach any other level except for sachkhand no matter how pure you are.

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