Punjabi Girl Marrying Gora

[Guest guest]

Are you actually expecting someone to answer to this out right ignorance and total disregard of all the Gurus. IT's all about winning arguement at anyone stake. Just by your questioning you have insisted that Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji replaced Guru Nanak Dev ji's teachings and made his own up. Instead of spoon feeding the answer to you, here are some question that will help in answering your questions.

Which Guru introduced the first kakkar to us?

Was anything that Guru Nanak Dev ji taught taken out and replaced or just left out?

Did Sikhi take birth and did the Khalsa Panth take birth?

Who was Guru Nanak Dev ji?

Which Guru started the Khalsa Panth?

Which Guru picked up the sword?

Answer those above question honestly and you will have the answer. You'll appreciate the answer more this way, when one has to work to get it.

Bhai saahib, I did not mean to raise this as a question (rhetorical) but rather to justify my point and I stand corrected, I should not have used such extreme wording to try and make my point, however I did not mean to imply that that dasam pita "made up" his teachings. I simply don't agree with what 'Bloom' was saying. Kise nu guru sahib naal jori da hunda, don't claim akaalpurakh's sharan to be JUST your own or just the khalsa's. How do we know if taking darshan of guru sahib and going through the anand kaaraj will not be a life changing experience for these people? for all I know this might be what they need to live a much more spiritually rewarding life.

I am not in a position to pass judgement on them so I think everyone should have the opportunity to be with mahraaj in any way they can. Hum nahi changey burra nahi koi.

What is dhan dhan shri guru granth sahib ji mahraaj? - our living guru, the essence of our 10 paathshaah's, their very jot. This is what I see sitting on the throne in front of me.. I don't think it's acceptable for amrit dhaari piyarey to say "only my being here is justified". Isn't this the same as christians saying "accept christ as your saviour or forever be damned to hell?" I'm sorry but what about the rest of the population? - I hope you see my point.

Being sikh, and/or amrit dhaari should not grant you any special status. You have to practice by walking on the path of righteousness to gain any spiritual relevance. Even then it will be a long long long time before you or any other paapi being can pass judgement on another. Our Guru's recognised the spirituality of people from other faiths, what more do people need?? I am in no position to advice anyone, but I believe we should stop indulging our haumai and realise we're not special, we're not great, we're just like every other being out there and it is only with guru's grace will we be able to experience the almighty.

Bhul chuk maaf....

[Guest Bloom]

In My Opinion,

Everyone is Invited to Guru Sahibs' Darbaar SatSangat and Pangat! Absolutely! They are here to experience, feel the love, bliss, greatness, beauty of Guru Sahib! Learn Sikhi! Be Inspired! Feel Love! Every Human Being is Lovingly Invited to Guru Sahibs' Darbaar and Pangat!! Always!!!!!

But Maryada is Extremely Important! The symbolism is Extremely Important! The MOST important is DHARMA! You have 'cultural/traditional/anything goes Types who have Polluted the DHARMA and Truth of Sikhi! Sikhi is About Joining with Akal Purakh! Not about 'Do What You Want'.

GuruGranth Sahib Ji talks about the Sins of Alcohol and Meat! How can someone take Laavaan and then indulge in those things that are condemned? GuruGranth Sahib Ji talks about being Bemukh, Manmukh and Patit and the Great Sins attached to this!; How can someone Take Laavaan and then indulge in those things that are condemned? GuruGranth Sahib Ji Talks about When One is Niguraa; and the Great Sins attached to That!; How can someone Take four Laavaan and then remain a Niguraa? ETC!

I am not saying that Guru Doesn't Love All!! GURU DOES!!!!! I am saying there are certain Things that are Meant for Sikhs! And this Includes Anand Karaj. Anand Karaj is a Spiritual Dharmic Union; it involves Akal Purakh, Guru, and Souls. It is About DHARMA!

But I understand where you are coming from; what to do with all those people who are well….'punjabis'? On One Side it is Pushing Them Away; and on the Other it is Upkeeping Dharma! I say Upkeep Dharma! Then They will Truly Benefit by Seeing what is True Dharma, and Then They will Wish to Become Sikhs. If Not!; Good Riddance.

In My Opinion; It will Even Bring Those Closer to Guru Sahib and They Will Become RehitVaan Sikhs Themselves, where they would Perhapas have Never Become True Sikhs Their Entire Lives, because Dharma was sacrificed for 'Their Haumai, Ignorance and Chaah (desire)!'

Only RehitVaan Amritdhaari Anand Karajs' Between Singh and Kaur (who are committed to Keeping Rehit WHOLE LIFE)!!!!!

Chardi Kala!!

[Guest Bloom]

I also want to say; I don't want anyone to leave sikhi; in fact, I want them to Increase Their Love for Sikhi and Sikh Dharma!!!!!

Dhan Dhan Khalsa/Sikh Dharma!!!!!

Dhan Dhan RehitVaan Panj Pyareh, Khande-Pahul Amrit, and Khalsa Rehit!!!!!

Chardi Kala!!!!!

[Guest Gupt]

Regarding the wedding I heard that it will also be happening. Also another note the gurdwara up the street Gurdwara Singh Sabha has put a stop to all these weddings and has a firm stance.

Also heard that Guru Gobind Singh gurdwara also has a hall next to the gurdwara and they still use this. Wanted to know does the gurdwara own this building?

To the poster Bradford do u live local? and can u have a word with the commitee members? and try and ask or put forward some questions?

[Only five]

Are you actually expecting someone to answer to this out right ignorance and total disregard of all the Gurus. IT's all about winning arguement at anyone stake. Just by your questioning you have insisted that Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji replaced Guru Nanak Dev ji's teachings and made his own up. Instead of spoon feeding the answer to you, here are some question that will help in answering your questions.

Which Guru introduced the first kakkar to us?

Was anything that Guru Nanak Dev ji taught taken out and replaced or just left out?

Did Sikhi take birth and did the Khalsa Panth take birth?

Who was Guru Nanak Dev ji?

Which Guru started the Khalsa Panth?

Which Guru picked up the sword?

Answer those above question honestly and you will have the answer. You'll appreciate the answer more this way, when one has to work to get it.

Bhai saahib, I did not mean to raise this as a question (rhetorical) but rather to justify my point and I stand corrected, I should not have used such extreme wording to try and make my point, however I did not mean to imply that that dasam pita "made up" his teachings.

Your questions prove nothing and it raises no point whatsoever.. Again answer the questions I presented and you'll get why you didn't make no point.

I simply don't agree with what 'Bloom' was saying.

What Bloom has said holds merit and you don't understand what he is saying.

Kise nu guru sahib naal jori da hunda, don't claim akaalpurakh's sharan to be JUST your own or just the khalsa's.

Then tell yourself to take Amrit from the Punj Pyare and tell rest of the 'sikhs' you 'defend' to take Amrit. Bloom is telling peopl to take Amrit in a indirect way. When you take Amrit from the Punj Pyare then you become a son or daughter of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji. Now is this joining or a person to the Guru or breaking them. The sangat can decide for themselves here.

How do we know if taking darshan of guru sahib and going through the anand kaaraj will not be a life changing experience for these people? for all I know this might be what they need to live a much more spiritually rewarding life.

If you want to talk this way then tell me, how do you know the very person your speaking about isn't the Lord himself. Don't play these games. Your emotional games won't work here. Tell these people to take Darshan of Guru Sahib by reading the Anand Karaj and actually find out with they are committing too. What do they not get the same Darshan. When they walk go to the Gurdwara and Gurbani is being read do they not get that Darshan. It's that lack of committment you defend and call Darshan.

I am not in a position to pass judgement on them so I think everyone should have the opportunity to be with mahraaj in any way they can. Hum nahi changey burra nahi koi.

Sikhs follow the Guru and don't follow their mind. What Guru Sahib say is what a Sikh does. If he doesn't then how can he see the Darshan of Guru Sahib in any form.

What is dhan dhan shri guru granth sahib ji mahraaj? - our living guru, the essence of our 10 paathshaah's, their very jot. This is what I see sitting on the throne in front of me.. I don't think it's acceptable for amrit dhaari piyarey to say "only my being here is justified". Isn't this the same as christians saying "accept christ as your saviour or forever be damned to hell?" I'm sorry but what about the rest of the population? - I hope you see my point.

You have no point. Here is why. When you take Amrit from the Punj Pyare what do you become? A Sikh!!!! What have you committed to? To BECOMING A KHALSA. In 1699 Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji draw the line in the ground by giving Amrit. Either your with me and take Amrit or your on your own. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji never rejected the slower developers. He encouraged them to take Amrit and become his Sikhs. What you are claim to is there is a Sikh Panth and a Khalsa Panth. No such thing. There is only one Panth and that is the Khalsa Panth. You want to become a Khalsa without even accepting Amrit tell me how this is possible, maybe I will abandon my Guru's Path and take a person's manmat up.

All this comes down to the questions you presented to Bloom. Answer my questions in the last post and this whole thing will be made clear.

Being sikh, and/or amrit dhaari should not grant you any special status. You have to practice by walking on the path of righteousness to gain any spiritual relevance. Even then it will be a long long long time before you or any other paapi being can pass judgement on another. Our Guru's recognised the spirituality of people from other faiths, what more do people need?? I am in no position to advice anyone, but I believe we should stop indulging our haumai and realise we're not special, we're not great, we're just like every other being out there and it is only with guru's grace will we be able to experience the almighty.

Bhul chuk maaf....

For telling others to take Amrit and become Sikhs of the Guru is passing judgement and being a paapi then punish me a million times for this crime and I have the most ego in the world. Guru Sahib blessed me with it. You speak of faith, tell me how a person that cuts his hair has faith in Guru Sahib. When someone asking me why do I keep hair the answer is faith and tell me where that faith exist. Yes the answer you will give me is the inside is what counts. This answer is yelling for help and shows the lack of knowledge the person has. To keep hair comes from the inside. It comes from within.

I am nobody, but I will not let others distort Sikhi because they are unable to follow Sikhi.

Dhan Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Dev ji STARTED the KHALSA PANTH(this is very important to understand) and Dhan Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji(Guru Nanak Dev ji in the Tenth form) completed the Khalsa Panth. The final form was given by the Tenth Guru.

[Guest guest]

Dhan Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Dev ji STARTED the KHALSA PANTH(this is very important to understand) and Dhan Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji(Guru Nanak Dev ji in the Tenth form) completed the Khalsa Panth. The final form was given by the Tenth Guru.

Singh sahib, you assumed so much in your above post. I am an amrit dhaari gursikh! and have been so for 12 years! I completely agree with your above statement, our guru sahibaan's all carried forward one message, I didn't dispute that at all. You assumed I'm some mona-dhona, so you ignored my statement and argued to prove exactly what point? You didn't acknowledge anything I said because you believed I am not a sikh therefore cannot be correct.

The message from the guru is on of humility, love, care, compassion as well as to able to stand one's ground, to defend oneself and others from tyranny. Sikhi offers a rewarding way of life and should not be presented in such a 'hardcore' light to people who are unware of it - and don't say you will tell it how it is - you're merely expanding on your perception. I'm not saying break the rules and don't follow the teachings of guru sahibaan, but in my mind, akaalpurakh is universal, when he so desires he can quash a paapi's sins and make him a saint in an instant. I'm not playing emotional games as you put it, ask yourself if our guru sahibaan's would discriminate based on religion, gender, caste, creed, occupation or colour.

Je rokna ah ta ohna nu roko jo andron hi dharam nu maar rahey ney. I am disgusted at myself for not being able to do anything and believe me when I say, it bothers me greatly... These paapi's like badal, these so called 'sant's' like ashutosh, raam rahim.. panjab is filled with pakhandi's. why are we asleep on issue's like that? i've heard that most sgpc employees at the lower level drink alcohol in the guru ghar's. Oh lokan tey koi discussion nahi, yet when something like this is brought to attention, we go into a frenzy.

the truth is we have become diseased, my whole point from the start was to raise awareness. lets fight off the cancer which WILL kill us and worry about surface scratches later. If dasam pita taught us anything it is the art of battle, to adapt to the situation and fight as is demanded whether that be with josh or hosh.

If I have misunderstood concepts and am wrong, then I ask for forgiveness and pray to my guru to shed light on me so that my erroneous ways be corrected.

I have much to say but this is not the thread to say it in. bhul chuk maaf.

Gurfateh.

[Guest huest]

Your questions prove nothing and it raises no point whatsoever.. Again answer the questions I presented and you'll get why you didn't make no point.

What Bloom has said holds merit and you don't understand what he is saying.

Then tell yourself to take Amrit from the Punj Pyare and tell rest of the 'sikhs' you 'defend' to take Amrit. Bloom is telling peopl to take Amrit in a indirect way. When you take Amrit from the Punj Pyare then you become a son or daughter of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji. Now is this joining or a person to the Guru or breaking them. The sangat can decide for themselves here.

If you want to talk this way then tell me, how do you know the very person your speaking about isn't the Lord himself. Don't play these games. Your emotional games won't work here. Tell these people to take Darshan of Guru Sahib by reading the Anand Karaj and actually find out with they are committing too. What do they not get the same Darshan. When they walk go to the Gurdwara and Gurbani is being read do they not get that Darshan. It's that lack of committment you defend and call Darshan.

Sikhs follow the Guru and don't follow their mind. What Guru Sahib say is what a Sikh does. If he doesn't then how can he see the Darshan of Guru Sahib in any form.

You have no point. Here is why. When you take Amrit from the Punj Pyare what do you become? A Sikh!!!! What have you committed to? To BECOMING A KHALSA. In 1699 Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji draw the line in the ground by giving Amrit. Either your with me and take Amrit or your on your own. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji never rejected the slower developers. He encouraged them to take Amrit and become his Sikhs. What you are claim to is there is a Sikh Panth and a Khalsa Panth. No such thing. There is only one Panth and that is the Khalsa Panth. You want to become a Khalsa without even accepting Amrit tell me how this is possible, maybe I will abandon my Guru's Path and take a person's manmat up.

All this comes down to the questions you presented to Bloom. Answer my questions in the last post and this whole thing will be made clear.

For telling others to take Amrit and become Sikhs of the Guru is passing judgement and being a paapi then punish me a million times for this crime and I have the most ego in the world. Guru Sahib blessed me with it. You speak of faith, tell me how a person that cuts his hair has faith in Guru Sahib. When someone asking me why do I keep hair the answer is faith and tell me where that faith exist. Yes the answer you will give me is the inside is what counts. This answer is yelling for help and shows the lack of knowledge the person has. To keep hair comes from the inside. It comes from within.

I am nobody, but I will not let others distort Sikhi because they are unable to follow Sikhi.

Dhan Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Dev ji STARTED the KHALSA PANTH(this is very important to understand) and Dhan Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji(Guru Nanak Dev ji in the Tenth form) completed the Khalsa Panth. The final form was given by the Tenth Guru.

Gurfateh,

I posted a reply but for some reason it didn't appear. Oh well here goes nothing.

Bhai sahib, you assumed a lot of things in your reply to me, firstly I am an amrit-dhaari gursikh and have been so for 12 years. I'm not some mona-dhona who doesn't put his money where his mouth is. I do not disagree with the things which you and bloom have stated... yet for some reason you fail to understand this.

What I am against is debating pointless issue's like this over the internet when you have no information of value to make any decision. (I know, i'm a hypocrite, but couldn't help myself)

for example are the bride groom accepting gurmat? you or I don't know this - FACT.

We are diseased with a cancer of corruption which WILL kill us. I'm talking about the paapi's who are attacking us from inside... these sects, these babey, these pakhandi's. we need to focus on removing that cancer and not worry about surface wounds for the time being. Dasam pita taught us to be kind, humble, compassionate and gave us the strength to be steadfast, mighty and remove evil doers by whatever method necessary. It's not acceptable to "accept" things which are against gurmat or rehat maryada and I am not saying we should do that. HOWEVER, an amrit dhaari gursikh can/should be able to tell the difference between a dusht-paapi and a lost manmukh. You wouldn't treat both in the same way.

You accused me of playing "emotional games". Bhai sahib, taking khandey-vatey da amrit is the continuation/beginning of one's spiritual journey NOT the end, furthermore it doesn't guarantee salvation. Dasam pita himself has said, once a soul has surrendered to him he will not let it go back to chaurasi but will give it another opportunity.

Look, sikhi is the easiest and most direct route to akaalpurakh. but it is NOT the only one. Our guru's also confirmed this to us, look @ baba farid, bhagat kabeer ji and so on and so forth, we read their bachans, they were in the same spiritual space as our guru sahibaan's. Which is why I say DO NOT THINK OF YOUR SELF AS EXCLUSIVE - YOU ARE NOT!

You say anand kaaraj is for sikhs only. I disagree, Gurbaani is for everyone and anyone, not just for rehat-dhaari sikhs. Anyone can choose to become and sikh at any point in their life, akaalpurakh does not condemn hindu's, muslim's, christians etc.

I no longer wish to argue with you. You yourself can evaluate what I have said and whether if it is a bunch of lies or holds any correctness. Yes, Dasam pita said "khalsa mero roop hai khaas, khalsey main hau karo nivaas", but tell me how khalas (pure) are you? I know for sure I wouldn't put myself anywhere near my satguru, for he is eternally great, I am a paapi trapped in moh-maiya. I believe akaalpurakh is just, loving and able to see us for who we are. lets not try and judge others. If I have misunderstood, I pray that the akaalpurakh will forgive me and show me the error of my ways, and if you can educate me please don't cease to do so.

[Guest forgetfull]

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

waheguru ji who is your sikh

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

[Guest sikh]

Are you serious?

Moghul emperors were welcome in the Gurdwara, hindus and muslims alike sat and ate with our gurus. Look how our ego's have inflated the second our 10th Guru left this world. But Guru Granth Sahib Ji is watching our every move and thought and in the end it won't be ethnic cleansing it'll be ego cleansing and the slanderers and all who believe they are better than a single other will be judged.

Our Gurdwarra is open to ALL and if our Gurus, our kings, God himself allowed this we tiny dirty egotistical little dustmites should be quiet and accept it.

My Beautiful beyond comparison Guru Ram Das Ji wiped the feet of the awful Prithi Chand after his betrayal. All you slanders should go kiss that white mans feet- drop your ego's, you and I are the worst of the worst and I don't care how much you want to deny it.

This is racsim and hatred and if a white man came on here to learn about sikhi he'd turn away in a second. And I wouldn't flipping blame him. Who would feel comfortable in a religion full of racist nazi clones. How can I feel comfortable sitting in a sangat full of closed minded, racists.

If we can't control kill our minds and feel love then we are not sikh and if you don't feel love for this white man having the ultimate, uncomparable darshan of Guru Granth Sahib Ji- i.e our ten guru's and god himself and getting the blessings of Anand Karaj you must have bumped your head hard somewhere when you were born.

It's a beautiful thing. Happy sigh.

I'm sorry, I totally understand your viewpoint but I disagree with you. So dhan dhan shri guru nanak dev ji maharaaj was not a sikh as he was not amrit dhaari? dasam pita shri guru gobind singh sahib was not a sikh prior to 1699? We were given a code to follow because we are sheep, we are not lions capable of choosing our path. we deviate from the true way, so to make things easier the guru set out a distinct path. However our guru sahibaan's are against discrimination of gender, cast, creed.

Sangat ji why are you jumping on this issue to say "oh my god, this is appalling"? Do you know the people who are getting married? don't they have a right to a gursikh anand kaaraj? Like you say, we have to become sikhs. lets start doing that by showing compassion to others, helping to seed humility, kindness and love into the lives of those we know.

Do something productive for a change, there are much much much more pressing issue's to tackle, so expend your energy there.

You are a king and someone up there loves you to give you such humility, the rarest quality to be found these days. :D

[Guest Gupt]

I have also heard this don't know if it is going ahead though, also know that singh sabha gurdwara bradford has put a stop to tese weddings along with other gurdwara's in bradford.

To the poster do you live locally? and cud you go and talk to the gurdwara committee and ask why the wedding is taking place, just find out their views.

Quite interested in what they will say