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Sacrifice At Hazur Sahib – Myth & Truth

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The Internet has provided a forum for free speech which is being abused by all and sundry to project their views with the finality of an intellectual whose research cannot be wrong. All writers, young and old, write in the superlative degree, presenting their views as "the only correct view", "the best book", "the worst case" and the like. Human fallibility has become non-existent. After the Tercentenary celebrations at Hazur Sahib, on the internet and in print magazines, it has become fashionable for Sikh intelligentsia to indulge in a superlative discussion about, "Goat Sacrifice at Hazur Sahib."

I have been following this debate for a long time and I have observed that most of the debate is frivolous and those who do spend time on this subject do so without understanding the details of the phenomenon.

Beyond all reasonable doubt let me authoritatively say and explain how this myth is a half-truth and more injurious than the lie.

As a student of Gurmat, I am fully aware of the facts and practices of the Sikhs particularly of this region, who are called "Deccani Sikhs". Since the last four generations, I have lived in this region and therefore I am also one of them.

What is the act of sacrifice? It is a religious ritual of killing (an animal or person) in order to propitiate a deity. This is strictly forbidden in Sikhism. The lives of the Ten Gurus and the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib have several crystal clear explanations.

The shabads of Guru Granth Sahib are misquoted, misused and misinterpreted to propagate vegetarianism among the Sikhs by some intellectuals and by vested interests, particular those running deras.

It is not fair to presume that Jhatka of goat is a sacrificial act at Hazur Sahib and other Unit Gurdwaras of the Deccani Sikhs. Since thousands of years, it is a custom of warriors of India to put the Tilak of blood to their weaponry on the occasion of Dashara and Holi. In these Gurdwaras, the tilak of blood is put to the weapons, not to Guru Granth Sahib or any other idol or photograph.

Even innocent Sikh preachers toe the line, as either they are ignorant or they too want to appease the vested interests or they think vegetarianism will make them popular.

Sikhs living in and around Hazur Sahib of the erstwhile Hyderabad State are the decedents who took Amrit in presence of Guru Gobind Singh Ji in the year 1708. Around 1830, the Sikh Army of Maharaja Ranjit Singh came to help the Nizam, who was the ruler of Hyderabad. This army was retained here as a Sikh Peace keeping Force, which had 14 Risalas (units) at all district headquarters with its Unit Gurdwaras. They held the then prevailing practices and rituals of the Sikhs of that period as a disciplined Armed Force.

It is not fair to presume that Jhatka of goat is a sacrificial act at Hazur Sahib and other Unit Gurdwaras of the Deccani Sikhs. Since thousands of years, it is a custom of warriors of India to put the Tilak of blood to their weaponry on the occasion of Dashara and Holi. In these Gurdwaras, the tilak of blood is put to the weapons, not to Guru Granth Sahib or any other idol or photograph. Though it is not in consonance with Sikh philosophy, like many other practices that have crept into the Sikh way of life, this too requires sane intervention so that it can be stopped. Mere condemnation ad nauseam will not help stopping it.

It is important that we see things objectively and rationally. From the point of view of Sikh image and Sikh practice, this has to be stopped, but this should be bracketed with many other practices and rituals which require serious steps. But there are so many rituals and festivals of other religions which are Celebration of the New Year of the Christian Era, Sammat new month Sangrand and Full moon day Pooranmashi. Are these all not anti-Sikh practices?

Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilo...ead.php?t=24666 (Sacrifice at Hazur Sahib Myth & Truth)

Hazur%20Sahib.jpg.jpg

Guru Nanak Sahib in shabad number25 on pages 1289-90 has explained how the fools quarrel over vegetarianism and meat-eating. In 35 thirty five verses starting with "Pehla masaho nimiya maasai ander vas". "pihlW mwshu inMimAw mwsY AMdir vwsu", saying that, "First, the mortal is conceived in the flesh, and then he dwells in the flesh". Gurbani repeatedly reiterates that God is equally abiding in His Creation including food grains, water, vegetation, animal and human bodies. Gurbani strictly condemns sacrifices of animals for pleasing deities and offerings of eatables in fire for performing Havan, Yagyan, Lohri and other such festivities.

On page number 1275 of Guru Granth Sahib, Guru Nanak Sahib has further explained the law of nature that, "Ek ji, kai jiyaan khahi ", "eyk jIA , kY jIAw KwhI" means "One life eats several lives".

On page number 955, Guru Angad Sahib Ji further clarifies saying that, "Jiya ka ahar ji, khana yeho karey ", "jIAw kw Ahwr jIA Kwxw eyhu kryie]", meaning "God has made the creatures' food for other creatures."

There is enough historical evidence that in the in the langar of Guru Nanak Sahib and Guru Gobind Singh, meat was cooked and served. As the sentiments of non-meat eaters were hurt, it was subsequently stopped. Thus, Guru Ka Langar has gone purely vegetarian and should be accepted and venerated by one and all.

weapons.jpg.jpg

Since thousands of years, Jhatka is an Indian tradition of killing any animal with one stroke. In Assam, Rajasthan and some other north Indian regions, it is still prevailing. Halal meat is actually Zubah meat (half cut throat) which is halal (permitted) for the Muslims. This tradition is borrowed by them from Jewish religion's "Kosher meat". This sort of meat is specifically declared harram (forbidden-sinful) for the Sikhs in Sikh Rehat Maryada. The diktat to eat Jhatka meat was a revolt against the established custom of the time and also a step of rebellion against Muslim tyranny.

Those who advocate vegetarianism among Sikhs is deliberately overlooking the provisions of Sikh Rehat Maryada, which clearly prohibits consuming Kuththa (halal meat) and does not in any manner prevent Sikhs from being non-vegetarians. It is the discretion and liberty of Amritdharis to consume meat, if they choose to do so. Also, any Sikh, who chooses to be vegetarian, is welcome to remain so, but it is foolhardy, naïve and wrong to attempt to amend the Sikh religious ethos according to this choice.

Nanak Singh "Nishter" is a Hyderabad-based orator, writer and Urdu poet. He is a regular columnist of World Sikh News. He is an activist-academician making immense contribution to the social and cultural welfare of Sikh society. He is director of International Sikh Centre for Interfaith Relations. He may be contacted at nanaknishter@gmail.com

This above article in my opinion is running away from the truth.

Why would jhatka be permitted when these guys that want to eat meat use bani that says the sugar cane also suffers when being crushed to justify meat eating. Vegetables are also be chopped into bits and they must be crying, and suffering all the time. So why can we put vegetables throw this pain, but not an animal. For an animal we have to strike it with one blow. This does not make sense because if animals and vegetables are the same on the food line then we should be able to cut an animal however we choose, just as we do with vegetables. And this whole Muslims cut the throat slowly and let it bleed to death is a big so what. Didn't the vegetable suffer when we cut it bit by bit. Didn't the juices of the vegetable come out slowly, cutting it bit by bit.

Why would Guru Gobind SIngh Sahib ji allow Sikh to cruelly cut one food(vegetables) and the other he would say the Muslims are making the animal suffer, so now on Sikhs have to eat meat when the animal is struck with one blow and killed. Why would Guru Sahib have a double standard when vegetarian food and meat is on the same line according to the meat eaters.

Second arguement these guys like to present is that Muslims were making a sacrifice of the meat to God and reading prayers to make it pure to eat. In this sense to start jhatka does not make sense still. because the food still can be made a sacrifice to God doesn't matter, which way you cut the animal. Can't the mantra be said two or three minutes before they strike the animal with one blow to purifify the food. The only thing Jhatka gets rid of is cruelty of the animal by one blow. But according to the meat eaters in Gurbani the sugar cane is crushed and feels pain. So why be the hypocrite and cruelly let a sugar cane suffer, but not let an animal suffer. Why the double standard.

Then last one they bring up is, jhatka was started to abolish the Muslim way of killing animals. What does it abolish that an animal is pure. This is already written in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. That animal sacrifice is wrong, again already written in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. As you can see above it doesn't solve this problem and if you say it does then you get labeled as a hypocrite for letting a vegetable suffer on the frying pan.

1. The arguement that vegetables/grain/fruit is the same as meat does not hold.

2. The jhatka way does not solve anything.

3. It proves that meat eaters have a double standard for meat and vegetables, but with the same tongue say both are the same.

I say meat is only permitted if every other food on this plant disappears. Meat is only used as a survival need and nothing else.

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so urs is truth and article is myth right ???

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so urs is truth and article is myth right ???

Jassa ji, I helped to identify the fallacies in the above article and in the jhatka tradition. If you believe there is something wrong with what I have wrote then you have every right to point out the wrong doing.

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I say meat is only permitted if every other food on this plant disappears. Meat is only used as a survival need and nothing else.

Agreed.

I have a goat and a carrot side by side. I pull out a sword, and kill another goat. Who will be scared the goat or carrot? who will run away, the goat or carrot?

If you want recognition of your speech, then I suggest you to contact the jathedar of huzoor sahib. Maybe someone could help you contact him.........

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Jag Singh, if you have a carrot then its gona be dead anyway. the life in it ends when its pulled out of the earth. the jeev-atma has gone into another form, could be a goat, could be anything. But the atma is always the same, the clay body is different.

Only five has said that vegetables are crying as they are chopped by humans when etc but this is not true. the jeev-atma in it went time ago.

Like the heads come off goats and they die, the farmers take their scythes (although a lot use combines now) and cut the stalks of wheat and kill the clay body of the jeev-atma.

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Clearly I haven't thrown enough information. I'll tell you the story again:

I have a goat and a carrot side by side. The carrot is (alive) in the soil, the goat is next to the growing carrot. I pull out a sword, and kill another goat. I use the same sword to kill another (alive) carrot. Who will be scared the goat or carrot? who will run away, the goat or carrot?

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Jag Singh, if you have a carrot then its gona be dead anyway. the life in it ends when its pulled out of the earth. the jeev-atma has gone into another form, could be a goat, could be anything. But the atma is always the same, the clay body is different.

Only five has said that vegetables are crying as they are chopped by humans when etc but this is not true. the jeev-atma in it went time ago.

Like the heads come off goats and they die, the farmers take their scythes (although a lot use combines now) and cut the stalks of wheat and kill the clay body of the jeev-atma.

In the shabad I pointed out in original post, where the sugar cane is being crushed it has already been pulled out of the ground. How come Guru Nanak Dev ji is telling everyone to look at the horror of what we are doing to the sugar cane when it is being crushed.

So your theory is not even going with Gurbani. Yet meat eaters use this shabad to say look the sugar cane is suffering in pain. Here is the whole shabad so the rest can see what we are talking about.

This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Maajh on Pannaa 142

mÚ 1 ]

ma 1 ||

First Mehla:

vyKu ij imTw kitAw kit kuit bDw pwie ]

vaekh j mit(h)aa kattiaa katt kutt badhhaa paae ||

Look, and see how the sugar-cane is cut down. After cutting away its branches, its feet are bound together into bundles,

KuMFw AMdir riK kY dyin su ml sjwie ]

khu(n)dtaa a(n)dhar rakh kai dhaen s mal sajaae ||

and then, it is placed between the wooden rollers and crushed.

rsu ksu ttir pweIAY qpY qY ivllwie ]

ras kas ttattar paaeeai thapai thai vilalaae ||

What punishment is inflicted upon it! Its juice is extracted and placed in the cauldron; as it is heated, it groans and cries out.

BI so Pogu smwlIAY idcY Aig jwlwie ]

bhee so fog samaaleeai dhichai ag jaalaae ||

And then, the crushed cane is collected and burnt in the fire below.

nwnk imTY pqrIAY vyKhu lokw Awie ]2]

naanak mit(h)ai pathareeai vaekhahu lokaa aae ||2||

Nanak: come, people, and see how the sweet sugar-cane is treated! ||2||

Chatanga, by your saying the sugar cane died when it was cut, but by Guru Nanak Dev ji it dies after it is cut out and placed in the wooden rollers. Why else would it cry when it is being crushed.

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why get upset about this? Read what Baba Gurbachan Singh ji has said about chatka.

No one is upset. Just showing fallacy in the Jhatka way and other's are getting <Edited>.

If I'm wrong then correct me. I'm not here to win arguements, but to present sides and discuss.

Why does feelings have to get involved here.

Can you present what Sant ji said. This would be great because then Jhatka can be seen in another way.

Present everything about this topic and it can be discussed and analyzed by whoever wants too.

Put everything on the table for everyone to see.

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1. The arguement that vegetables/grain/fruit is the same as meat does not hold.

2. The jhatka way does not solve anything.

3. It proves that meat eaters have a double standard for meat and vegetables, but with the same tongue say both are the same.

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VahegurooJiKaKhalsaVahegurooJiKiFateh!

Great stuff, many thanks to you for the article.

VahegurooJiKaKhalsaVahegurooJiKiFateh!

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1. The arguement that vegetables/grain/fruit is the same as meat does not hold.

2. The jhatka way does not solve anything.

3. It proves that meat eaters have a double standard for meat and vegetables, but with the same tongue say both are the same.

[/size][/font]

VahegurooJiKaKhalsaVahegurooJiKiFateh!

Great stuff, many thanks to you for the article.

VahegurooJiKaKhalsaVahegurooJiKiFateh!

I e-mailed Nanak Singh Nishter aswell about my finds, but he hasn't responded back yet(hasn't been long since i did it). I'll be waiting for what he has to say about it. It's something we can't ignore. Well, I believe i have an idea in which direction this finds point aswell do others that looked into it, but let's see what Mr. Nishter has to say about it.

And do if you wish present it to anyone else that is in support of Jhatka as done today to read it and see his/her response to it.

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What you mean by the following quotes from GURBANI:-

"JEEAN KUHAT NA SANGE PRANI."

and

"JO SABH MEH EK KHUDAI KAHAT HO,TAU KYON MURGI MAARE"

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What you mean by the following quotes from GURBANI:-

"JEEAN KUHAT NA SANGE PRANI."

and

"JO SABH MEH EK KHUDAI KAHAT HO,TAU KYON MURGI MAARE"

Singh, give the ang sung on which the tuks are on and which shabad you are refering too above.

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In the shabad I pointed out in original post, where the sugar cane is being crushed it has already been pulled out of the ground. How come Guru Nanak Dev ji is telling everyone to look at the horror of what we are doing to the sugar cane when it is being crushed.

So your theory is not even going with Gurbani. Yet meat eaters use this shabad to say look the sugar cane is suffering in pain. Here is the whole shabad so the rest can see what we are talking about.

Chatanga, by your saying the sugar cane died when it was cut, but by Guru Nanak Dev ji it dies after it is cut out and placed in the wooden rollers. Why else would it cry when it is being crushed.

do you think that the sugarcane is actually crying out or is Guru Ji using these words for an antreev message?

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"JO SABH MEH EK KHUDAI KAHAT HO TO KYO MURGI MAARE"

(Parbhati KABIR JI at ANG 1350)

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"JO SABH MEH EK KHUDAI KAHAT HO TO KYO MURGI MAARE"

(Parbhati KABIR JI at ANG 1350)

Singh, I real don't know why your presenting this tuk. because surely I know I did not present this shabad or tuk.

If you want someones take on what this means, then the meat eaters are saying this shabad is talking about the Muslim way of killing the animals as a sacrifice to God and it will purify the animal. They say Bhagat Kabir ji is question and calling their ritual wrong.

In the shabad I pointed out in original post, where the sugar cane is being crushed it has already been pulled out of the ground. How come Guru Nanak Dev ji is telling everyone to look at the horror of what we are doing to the sugar cane when it is being crushed.

So your theory is not even going with Gurbani. Yet meat eaters use this shabad to say look the sugar cane is suffering in pain. Here is the whole shabad so the rest can see what we are talking about.

Chatanga, by your saying the sugar cane died when it was cut, but by Guru Nanak Dev ji it dies after it is cut out and placed in the wooden rollers. Why else would it cry when it is being crushed.

do you think that the sugarcane is actually crying out or is Guru Ji using these words for an antreev message?

Well I took the intrepretation from your meat eating brothers. And they say the shabad is telling us the sugar cane feels pain. Does it actually cry out like an animal will while being crushed. NO

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ਮਃ ੧ ॥

ਵੇਖੁ ਜਿ ਮਿਠਾ ਕਟਿਆ ਕਟਿ ਕੁਟਿ ਬਧਾ ਪਾਇ ॥ ਖੁੰਢਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਰਖਿ ਕੈ ਦੇਨਿ ਸੁ ਮਲ ਸਜਾਇ ॥

ਰਸੁ ਕਸੁ ਟਟਰਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਤਪੈ ਤੈ ਵਿਲਲਾਇ ॥ ਭੀ ਸੋ ਫੋਗੁ ਸਮਾਲੀਐ ਦਿਚੈ ਅਗਿ ਜਾਲਾਇ ॥

ਨਾਨਕ ਮਿਠੈ ਪਤਰੀਐ ਵੇਖਹੁ ਲੋਕਾ ਆਇ ॥੨॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 143}

Here GURU NANAK DEV JI MAHARAJ is talking about Sugarcane and

is telling us that we first cut the Sugarcane(KAT KUT BADHA PAYE)

than crush in crusher(KHUNDA ANDER RAKH KE DEN SU MAL SAJAYE)and

there after the juice is boiled in the big pan and than it cries

(TAPPE TE VILLAYE)and again its remains are used as fuel to boil

juice of itself.

But here the Sugarcane is symbol of our selfishness or false ego or/

and MAYA DA CIRCLE around,us made by ourselves.And when our sugarcane

of ego/selfishness is crushed and its juice is boiled means we are

suffering from uncontrolled anger,we cry ,burning in the fire of anger.

Bhul chuk khima,Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh.

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ਮਃ ੧ ॥

ਵੇਖੁ ਜਿ ਮਿਠਾ ਕਟਿਆ ਕਟਿ ਕੁਟਿ ਬਧਾ ਪਾਇ ॥ ਖੁੰਢਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਰਖਿ ਕੈ ਦੇਨਿ ਸੁ ਮਲ ਸਜਾਇ ॥

ਰਸੁ ਕਸੁ ਟਟਰਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਤਪੈ ਤੈ ਵਿਲਲਾਇ ॥ ਭੀ ਸੋ ਫੋਗੁ ਸਮਾਲੀਐ ਦਿਚੈ ਅਗਿ ਜਾਲਾਇ ॥

ਨਾਨਕ ਮਿਠੈ ਪਤਰੀਐ ਵੇਖਹੁ ਲੋਕਾ ਆਇ ॥੨॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 143}

Here GURU NANAK DEV JI MAHARAJ is talking about Sugarcane and

is telling us that we first cut the Sugarcane(KAT KUT BADHA PAYE)

than crush in crusher(KHUNDA ANDER RAKH KE DEN SU MAL SAJAYE)and

there after the juice is boiled in the big pan and than it cries

(TAPPE TE VILLAYE)and again its remains are used as fuel to boil

juice of itself.

But here the Sugarcane is symbol of our selfishness or false ego or/

and MAYA DA CIRCLE around,us made by ourselves.And when our sugarcane

of ego/selfishness is crushed and its juice is boiled means we are

suffering from uncontrolled anger,we cry ,burning in the fire of anger.

Bhul chuk khima,Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh.

Yes, Singh the metaphor is understood. What I was pointing out is that meat eaters also say the sugar cane is suffering. This shabad is both, it has a literal meaning and the metaphorical meaning.

Since the meat eaters know where I am going with this, they will fight to death now to prove that the sugar cane doesn't suffer, going back on their first interpetation to be right. In other words they will flip, flop like a fish out of water, just to eat meat.

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can you point out where the meat-eaters have said this. i would like to read it as well.

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can you point out where the meat-eaters have said this. i would like to read it as well.

Sure go the SPN, in the thread Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh, you will find Randip Singh repeatedly saying the sugar cane feels pain. I believe it's in the first 15 pages in that thread.

If I have extra time, I'll post the link to the exact page.

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can you point out where the meat-eaters have said this. i would like to read it as well.

Here you go Singh, see for yourself. All of this is being said by the head meat eater LOL Randip Singh the one that says the article Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh solves everything-eat all the meat you want Sikhi isn't against it. But now hes proved wrong and I don't get one response from him yet. And in the near future I don't expect one from him.

Post number 73

http://www.sikhphilo...er-flesh-8.html

Here another time same is said. So please leave the excuses out.

Post number 122

http://www.sikhphilo...r-flesh-13.html

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It's unlikely the ultimate question of meat vs. no meat will be resolved anytime soon.

I'd like to encourage those Sikhs who believe the 4th kurehit (kutha) to be prohibition of Muslim meat only, and not meat in general to stay away from store-bought meat. If your rehit is loose enough to eat store-bought meat, you should basically consider yourself already patit.

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It's unlikely the ultimate question of meat vs. no meat will be resolved anytime soon.

I'd like to encourage those Sikhs who believe the 4th kurehit (kutha) to be prohibition of Muslim meat only, and not meat in general to stay away from store-bought meat. If your rehit is loose enough to eat store-bought meat, you should basically consider yourself already patit.

Singh ji, Sikhs are forbidden to eat meat. What they can eat is Jhatka. Which is meat specially prepared as the Nihang Singhs do.

The meat at the local gorecry store and in resturants is not Jhatka and it must not be eaten by any Amritdharis. If Punj Pyare permit Jhatka then it is allowed for the Amritdhari.

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If Punj Pyare permit Jhatka then it is allowed for the Amritdhari.

panj pyare base thier views on their jatha affilaitions. so some will say you will be ok, others may say you will be struck down by lightening! and the argumnet continues...

the best to this non-ending argumnet is to follow Akal Takht Directive. peace.

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