Humans

[Guest confused]

WJKK WJKF

I read someone's attachment and it's got me thinkin on the attachment it said "if evolution claims that humans' come from apes - then why are there apes still around?"

So what does Gurbani say; where have humans come from?

Thanks.

WJKK WJKF

[So_Gupt]

Hmm, it does not claim Humans come from apes, it clearly states that Humans and Apes have a "Common Ancestor" and there is a lot of evidence such as the fossil record buh few gaps in it and also the DNA etc. I cant Be Arsed to go in detail but you should certainly read up on evoultion and do a little search.

And Gurbani, it states that:

ਕਵਨ ਮੂਲ ਤੇ ਮਾਨੁਖੁ ਕਰਿਆ ਇਹੁ ਪਰਤਾਪੁ ਤੁਹਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ From what source did you create humans? This is Your Glorious Grandeur. |Pause|

ਜੀਅ ਪ੍ਰਾਣ ਸਰਬ ਕੇ ਦਾਤੇ ਗੁਣ ਕਹੇ ਨ ਜਾਹਿ ਅਪਾਰਾ You are the Giver of the soul and the breath of life to all; Your Infinite Glories cannot be spoken.

ਸਭ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਸ੍ਰਬ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲਕ ਸਰਬ ਘਟਾਂ ਆਧਾਰਾ You are the Beloved Lord of all, the Cherisher of all, the Support of all hearts.

ਕੋਇ ਨ ਜਾਣੈ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਗਤਿ ਮਿਤਿ ਆਪਹਿ ਏਕ ਪਸਾਰਾ No one knows Your state and extent. You alone created the expanse of the Universe.

I wouldnt Personally worry about how I came to existence but what I would defo worry about is, Why?? For What Purpose??

Guru Ji clearly states that we came according to His Hukam:

Creation came into being with a single command of God; from it evolved millions of branches of different types

[Guest hfj]

The evolution theory was made up by a bunch of freemasons to curb peoples faith in god and make the world even darker than it already was.

Think how many athiests and satanists this theory would have created over the years. If this were true (which it isn't)- read Dasam Granth Sahib- I wouldn't be Sikh believe me!

[Papi]

The evolution theory was made up by a bunch of freemasons to curb peoples faith in god and make the world even darker than it already was.

Right, let's just ignore all the fossil evidence we have that supports the theory :6 The latest consensus is that there was/is a "guiding hand" behind evolution...Can you not even consider the possibility that God started and drove evolution?

[sonearyetSOfar]

exactly.

you shouldn't be so worried, evolution only dispells the christian theory of creation (and maybe other religions) and the christian theory doesn't come from jesus or even moses or anyone. a prophet didn't write or recite it, where history written in the bible about prophets may be plausible as written by disciples - i don't think anyone knows who wrote the theory of creation - i may be wrong, but i don't think there's any reference to anyone.

ie. bhai gurdaas ji dian varaan, and bhai santokh singh ji's suraj prakash granth etc, are histories of guru ji and take what guru ji has said and expanded upon it.

[Guest HFJ]

Ok hopefully there won't be any more disputes after reading this excerpt from Guru Dasam Granth Sahib Ji.- Spoken by Guru Gobind Singh Ji conveyed to him directly by God. Anything and everything I read from my Guru I take as law no questions asked and nothing will ever sway my mind. I know and feel it's the truth.

http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&p=132

ਜਿਉ ਤਿਉ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਹਮ ਕੋ ਸਮਝਾਯੋ ॥ ਇਮ ਕਿਹ ਕੈ ਇਹ ਲੋਕਿ ਪਠਾਯੋ ॥੫॥

जिउ तिउ प्रभ हम को समझायो ॥ इम किह कै इह लोकि पठायो ॥५॥

But the Lord made me understand His Will and sent me in this world with the following words.5.

ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਬਾਚ ਇਸ ਕੀਟ ਪ੍ਰਤਿ ॥

अकाल पुरख बाच इस कीट प्रति ॥

The Words of the Non-temporal Lord to this insect:

ਚੌਪਈ ॥

चौपई ॥

CHAUPAI

ਜਬ ਪਹਿਲੇ ਹਮ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਬਨਾਈ ॥ ਦਈਤ ਰਚੇ ਦੁਸਟ ਦੁਖਦਾਈ ॥

जब पहिले हम स्रिसटि बनाई ॥ दईत रचे दुसट दुखदाई ॥

When I created the world in the beginning, I created the ignominious and dreadful Daityas.

ਤੇ ਭੁਜ ਬਲ ਬਵਰੇ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਗਏ ॥ ਪੂਜਤ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰਖ ਰਹਿ ਗਏ ॥੬॥

ते भुज बल बवरे ह्वै गए ॥ पूजत परम पुरख रहि गए ॥६॥

Who became mad with power and abandoned the worship of Supreme Purusha.6.

ਤੇ ਹਮ ਤਮਕਿ ਤਨਕ ਮੋ ਖਾਪੇ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕੀ ਠਉਰ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਥਾਪੇ ॥

ते हम तमकि तनक मो खापे ॥ तिन की ठउर देवता थापे ॥

I destroyed them in no time and created gods in their place.

ਤੇ ਭੀ ਬਲਿ ਪੂਜਾ ਉਰਝਾਏ ॥ ਆਪਨ ਹੀ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥੭॥

ते भी बलि पूजा उरझाए ॥ आपन ही परमेसुर कहाए ॥७॥

They were also absorbed in the worship of power and called themselves Ominipotednt.7.

ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਅਚੁੱਤ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥ ਬਿਸਨ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ ॥

महादेव अचु्त कहायो ॥ बिसन आप ही को ठहिरायो ॥

Mahadeo (Shiva) was called Achyuta (blotless), Vishnu considered himself the Supreme.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਆਪ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬਖਾਨਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਜਾਨਾ ॥੮॥

ब्रहमा आप पारब्रहम बखाना ॥ प्रभ को प्रभू न किनहूं जाना ॥८॥

Brahma called himself Para Brahman, none could comprehend the Lord.8.

ਤਬ ਸਾਖੀ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਅਸਟ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਸਾਖ ਨਮਿਤ ਦੇਬੇ ਠਹਿਰਾਏ ॥

तब साखी प्रभ असट बनाए ॥ साख नमित देबे ठहिराए ॥

Then I created eight Sakshis in order to give evidence of my Entity.

ਤੇ ਕਹੈ ਕਰੋ ਹਮਾਰੀ ਪੂਜਾ ॥ ਹਮ ਬਿਨ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਦੂਜਾ ॥੯॥

ते कहै करो हमारी पूजा ॥ हम बिन अवरु न ठाकुरु दूजा ॥९॥

But they considered themselves all in all and aasked the people to worship them.9.

ਪਰਮ ਤਤ ਕੋ ਜਿਨ ਨ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕਰਿ ਈਸਰ ਤਿਨ ਕਹੁ ਮਾਨਾ ॥

परम तत को जिन न पछाना ॥ तिन करि ईसर तिन कहु माना ॥

Those who did not comprehend the Lord, they were considered as Ishvara.

ਕੇਤੇ ਸੂਰ ਚੰਦ ਕਹੁ ਮਾਨੈ ॥ ਅਗਨਿ ਹੋਤ੍ਰ ਕਈ ਪਵਨ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨੈ ॥੧੦॥

केते सूर चंद कहु मानै ॥ अगनि होत्र कई पवन प्रमानै ॥१०॥

Several people worshipped the sun and the moon and several others worshipped Fire and Ait.10.

ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਪਾਹਨ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਾ ॥ ਨ੍ਹਾਤ ਕਿਤੇ ਜਲ ਕਰਤ ਬਿਧਾਨਾ ॥

किनहूं प्रभु पाहन पहिचाना ॥ न्हात किते जल करत बिधाना ॥

Several them considered God as stone and several others bathed considering the Lordship of Water.

ਕੇਤਕ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਤ ਡਰਪਾਨਾ ॥ ਧਰਮ ਰਾਜ ਕੋ ਧਰਮ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥੧੧॥

केतक करम करत डरपाना ॥ धरम राज को धरम पछाना ॥११॥

Considering Dharmaraja as the Supreme representative of Dharma, several bore fear of him in their actions. 11.

ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸਾਖ ਨਮਿਤ ਠਹਿਰਾਏ ॥ ਤੇ ਹਿਆਂ ਆਇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਕਹਵਾਏ ॥

जो प्रभ साख नमित ठहिराए ॥ ते हिआं आइ प्रभू कहवाए ॥

All those whom God established for the revelation of His Supremacy, they themselves were called Supreme.

ਤਾ ਕੀ ਬਾਤ ਬਿਸਰ ਜਾਤੀ ਭੀ ॥ ਅਪਨੀ ਅਪਨੀ ਪਰਤ ਸੋਭ ਭੀ ॥੧੨॥

ता की बात बिसर जाती भी ॥ अपनी अपनी परत सोभ भी ॥१२॥

They forgot the Lord in their race for supremacy. 12

ਜਬ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਨ ਤਿਨੈ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਾ ॥ ਤਬ ਹਰਿ ਇਨ ਮਨੁਛਨ ਠਹਿਰਾਨਾ ॥

जब प्रभ को न तिनै पहिचाना ॥ तब हरि इन मनुछन ठहिराना ॥

When they did not comprehend the Lord, then I established human beings in their place.

ਤੇ ਭੀ ਬਸਿ ਮਮਤਾ ਹੁਇ ਗਏ ॥ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਪਾਹਨ ਠਹਿਰਏ ॥੧੩॥

ते भी बसि ममता हुइ गए ॥ परमेसर पाहन ठहिरए ॥१३॥

They also were overpowered by `mineness` and exhibited the Lord in statues.13.

ਤਬ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਧ ਸਾਧ ਠਹਿਰਾਏ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਹੀ ਪਾਏ ॥

तब हरि सिध साध ठहिराए ॥ तिन भी परम पुरखु नही पाए ॥

Then I created Siddhas and sadhs, who also could not realize the Lord.

ਜੇ ਕੋਈ ਹੋਤ ਭਯੋ ਜਗਿ ਸਿਆਨਾ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਤਿਨ ਅਪਨੋ ਪੰਥੁ ਚਲਾਨਾ ॥੧੪॥

जे कोई होत भयो जगि सिआना ॥ तिन तिन अपनो पंथु चलाना ॥१४॥

On whomsoever wisdom dawned, he started his own path. 14.

ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰਖ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨਹ ਪਾਯੋ ॥ ਬੈਰ ਬਾਦ ਅਹੰਕਾਰ ਬਢਾਯੋ ॥

परम पुरख किनहूं नह पायो ॥ बैर बाद अहंकार बढायो ॥

None could realise the Supreme Lord, but instead spread strife, enmity and ego.

ਪੇਡ ਪਾਤ ਆਪਨ ਤੇ ਜਲੈ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੈ ਪੰਥ ਨ ਕੋਊ ਚਲੈ ॥੧੫॥

पेड पात आपन ते जलै ॥ प्रभ कै पंथ न कोऊ चलै ॥१५॥

The tree and the leaves began to burn, because of the inner fire.None followed the path of the Lord.15.

ਜਿਨਿ ਜਿਨਿ ਤਨਿਕ ਸਿਧ ਕੋ ਪਾਯੋ ॥ ਤਿਨਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਅਪਨਾ ਰਾਹੁ ਚਲਾਯੋ ॥

जिनि जिनि तनिक सिध को पायो ॥ तिनि तिनि अपना राहु चलायो ॥

Whosoever attained a little spiritual power, he started his own ptah.

ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਾ ॥ ਮਮ ਉਚਾਰਿ ਤੇ ਭਯੋ ਦਿਵਾਨਾ ॥੧੬॥

परमेसर न किनहूं पहिचाना ॥ मम उचारि ते भयो दिवाना ॥१६॥

None could comprehend the Lord, but instead became mad with `I-ness`.16.

ਪਰਮ ਤੱਤ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥ ਆਪ ਆਪ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਉਰਝਾਨਾ ॥

परम त्त किनहूं न पछाना ॥ आप आप भीतरि उरझाना ॥

Nobody recognized the Supreme Essence, but was entangled within himself.

ਤਬ ਜੇ ਜੇ ਰਿਖਿ ਰਾਜ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਆਪਨ ਪੁਨ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਚਲਾਏ ॥੧੭॥

तब जे जे रिखि राज बनाए ॥ तिन आपन पुन सिम्रित चलाए ॥१७॥

All the great rishis (sages), who were then created, produced their own Smritis.17.

There wil be people in this world whos job it is to twist truth and others who are simply misguided. In our Granth Sahib's are contained divine knowledge to combat this ignorance and disinformation- If we don't have complete faith in it how are we meant to progress towards our ultimate goal- the truth is so important and it's been given to us on a plate.

[Guest sikh]

Every single sikh should make it their business to investigate the freemasons and the illuminati- after extensive research even a previous cynic like me has come to realise that the practice of black magic didn't just stop with moghul emperors- its still being used by satanists and these groups around the world and most politicians, including presidents past and present, Business and media moghuls, private bank owners and other top influential people are members. The evidence is overwhelming and this organisation which was alive and kicking during the time of Guru Gobind Singh in India is now more or less running things.

It's not just paranoia anymore, theres just too much evidence to ignore- google it.

[KEERPA]

freemasonry is worth peoples study for a little bit, but black magic is bunk. It is a way to scare you into submission. Money is the biggest "black magic" money buys you corruption etc.

Dont get caught up in science as they are most of the time educated guesses, and the rest of the planet has to take the word of the overly paid guesser. TYhey cant rewind time to now how long ago was the big bang etc, they will "try" to get you to believe they can calculate but in time they will change their answer again and again. Remember the world isnt flat etc

[babbar_sher]

The evolution theory was made up by a bunch of freemasons to curb peoples faith in god and make the world even darker than it already was.

statements like these is the reason that when you try telling people Illuminati is running things people dont believe it.

[Guest hfj]

People shouldn't believe it full stop.

A smart person would only believe something researched first hand, i'm no guru or missionary so you don't need to believe what. I however expect a good Sikh to research themselves and get the truth on a doubtful situation or subject. We're the best scholars around, or should be, being a student is what Sikhism's all about. When someone came to me spitting all these theories I laughed at him straight.

Some of the things he said played on my mind later though, I couldn't explain it but there were certain things he said that I had seen for myself and felt in real life and it was a huge what if that I couldn't live with. I've always been thirsty for knowledge and finding truth which is what led a shallow and vain <banned word filter activated> like me to religion in the first place so I found myself up late at night reading and reading.

Everything I read I immediately doubted and questioned, as I do about everything I'm told in day to day life and as everyone should in this age of maya. The only thing I've never doubted in my life are the words of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but if you pray for guidance from Guru Nanak and do naam jaap you can't go wrong.

I know the truth and won't let anyone sway me, I'm not gna say I was lying because I wasn't- I'll get laughed at, spat at and trodden on or tortured before I lie- but i'm most certainly not telling anyone to believe that I'm telling the truth because I really don't care, you can make what you want out of anything in life noones stopping you. If someone doubts my words, go find the truth. But If people wanna be completely put off by one person that they think is lying or sounds too fanatical that's their own problem, i'm not your keeper, ignore me and move along and believe your mum's nagging instead! :D