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Are There Tables And Chairs In Any Gurdwaras Outside Of Bc, Canada?


Guest _SinghSingh_
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ye agreed singh sabha southall and ramgaria sabha both have them.

singh sabha havelock have chairs in the darbar sahib!!

as soon as u enter the darbar sahib, to your immediate right.

Singh this is really sad to hear. Chairs in Darbar Sahib. People that live in this area should do something about it.

so are you for or against chairs? and why?

Give us reason's why chairs should be placed for Kings like you in Gurdwaras. Leave your Manmatt behavior at home when you go to the Gurdwara.

If fatness is your problem then go to the gym. And eat less, which will be better for society aswell, more food in the market for the rest.

its got nothing to do with anyone being kings or poor people. everyone should have chair to sit on in the langar hall thus equality is maintained. how are we more equal when we sit on the floor? it is easier and more natural position to eat food while sitting on a chair. what have you got against tables and chairs in the langar hall? the currecnt situation in some langar halls is unequal because some older people have chairs and tables and some other people dont. who decides who should have chairs and not? what harm do these chairs do? how do you eat food in your house or a restaurant? do you sit on the floor?

for your information i have no weight issues not that its any of your business.

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Sitting on the floor or on chairs isn't to be decided by us :p It was decided by our Guru a long time ago. Sitting cross legged on the floor equal to everyone else is how it always has been. If you were to use that same logic then could we not bring chairs into the Darbaar as long as everyone in Sangat is equal and Guru Ji is higher? Does that not also make sense?

Manmat are these thoughts.. I'm sure in the times of Sat Yug they all had chairs and tables to sit one while spending hundereds of years doing simran :)

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Sitting on the floor or on chairs isn't to be decided by us :p It was decided by our Guru a long time ago. Sitting cross legged on the floor equal to everyone else is how it always has been. If you were to use that same logic then could we not bring chairs into the Darbaar as long as everyone in Sangat is equal and Guru Ji is higher? Does that not also make sense?

Manmat are these thoughts.. I'm sure in the times of Sat Yug they all had chairs and tables to sit one while spending hundereds of years doing simran :)

yes your right it is logical, we could have chairs in the darbar hall as well.

so it was decided by guru ji to sit on the floor? was it also decided by guru ji to use oil lamps or did they have light bulbs then? did they travel to the gurdwara in cars? have modern heating systems? did they use microphones and speakers? did they use electric fans? was the langar prepared on gas hobs? were the ingredients kept in fridge freezers?

this is backward thinking, the purpose of the langar hall is to provide a cheap simple meal and to promote equality by having no special arrangement for anyone wether they are kings or homeless. if everyone has a table and chair then equality is maintained.

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Yeah.. we should all go to Akal Thakt Sahib and make it official! Turn Gurdwaras into churches for the sake of modernization :p

There were chairs even then in India.. if Guru Ji intended so, could he have not had people sit on chairs in the Langar ?

" the grant sahib " <_< A Sikh calls his Guru with such a title? Can't be respectful enough to say Guru Granth Sahib Ji ? This is your Guru remember.

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yes there were chairs but not as easily available and as cheap to provide as they are nowadays. we still have oil lamps so why do we use electric lightbulbs? we can still walk, why do we use cars? we dont need to have fans or speakers or microphones either so why have they not been banned? why is the food cooked on modern gas hobs instead of wood fires? this is a case of some people not using common sense. why would god be offended by someone sitting on a chair and eating from a table? everyone eats this way everyday at home or in canteen or restaurant.

on a separate point i made no declaration of my religion and i refer to the grant sahib in this way.

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GEO

You lose credibility and raise doubt about your sincerity and purpose when you make an outrageous comment about how you will refer to Guru Granth Sahib ji.

With respect to chairs in langar you seem to suggest ‘do what is practical and efficient’? The true answer to your query lies in doing some reading up on langar. Understand things such as who was obliged to partake in langar and where they normally sat.

However, let’s pretend we don’t understand that …..Warm up with the first four scenarios and then reply to the last two if it helps you.

1. Geo where there are public toilets and the mens (assume you are a man) is occupied, you can wait, but do you proceed to use the womens toilet (assume it is private)? That would be the most efficient use for all involved, god would not be offended and everyone uses all toilets within a home. Common sense?

2. Assume you are in classroom or in a business meeting. It is a hot day and there is no a/c. Would you proceed to take your shirt off? That would not offend god. Common sense?

3. Assume you are a city planner responsible for parks and green space in your city. You put a number of walking trails in, would you put a safely divided driving lane in the park adjacent to each walking trail? God would not be offended and cars are much cheaper and plentiful now. Common sense?

4. Geo assume traffic was blocked and it happens the sidewalk is completely clear with enough room to clear up the congestion. Would you start driving on the sidewalk to help clear the congestion? It would not offend god. Common sense?

5. You and your sister are getting older and having difficulty finding suitable mates. You get along well and know and trust each other. Do you need a reason not to marry your sister?

6. You walk into a fine dining establishment and there are tables and chairs everywhere. Your young children wish to spread out on the floor and play before dinner arrives. They won’t be getting in anyone’s way. Surely god would not be offended by children playing on the floor. At home the children sit on the floor to play. Do you permit them to spread out on the restaurant floor? Common sense?

In each of the above examples, common sense is dictated by some aspect of social order or social convention. The power of a proper langar on the floor is the beauty of social convention that shouts out against insanity of social convention.

You speak of progress. However you erroneously limit the term to technological/design progress. Human progress is progress of the spirit; not the latest transport, furniture or electrical device. Read up on langar and you will realize that sitting on the floor is the epitome of human progress and enrichment of the human spirit.

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GEO

You lose credibility and raise doubt about your sincerity and purpose when you make an outrageous comment about how you will refer to Guru Granth Sahib ji.

With respect to chairs in langar you seem to suggest 'do what is practical and efficient'? The true answer to your query lies in doing some reading up on langar. Understand things such as who was obliged to partake in langar and where they normally sat.

However, let's pretend we don't understand that …..Warm up with the first four scenarios and then reply to the last two if it helps you.

1. Geo where there are public toilets and the mens (assume you are a man) is occupied, you can wait, but do you proceed to use the womens toilet (assume it is private)? That would be the most efficient use for all involved, god would not be offended and everyone uses all toilets within a home. Common sense?

2. Assume you are in classroom or in a business meeting. It is a hot day and there is no a/c. Would you proceed to take your shirt off? That would not offend god. Common sense?

3. Assume you are a city planner responsible for parks and green space in your city. You put a number of walking trails in, would you put a safely divided driving lane in the park adjacent to each walking trail? God would not be offended and cars are much cheaper and plentiful now. Common sense?

4. Geo assume traffic was blocked and it happens the sidewalk is completely clear with enough room to clear up the congestion. Would you start driving on the sidewalk to help clear the congestion? It would not offend god. Common sense?

5. You and your sister are getting older and having difficulty finding suitable mates. You get along well and know and trust each other. Do you need a reason not to marry your sister?

6. You walk into a fine dining establishment and there are tables and chairs everywhere. Your young children wish to spread out on the floor and play before dinner arrives. They won't be getting in anyone's way. Surely god would not be offended by children playing on the floor. At home the children sit on the floor to play. Do you permit them to spread out on the restaurant floor? Common sense?

In each of the above examples, common sense is dictated by some aspect of social order or social convention. The power of a proper langar on the floor is the beauty of social convention that shouts out against insanity of social convention.

You speak of progress. However you erroneously limit the term to technological/design progress. Human progress is progress of the spirit; not the latest transport, furniture or electrical device. Read up on langar and you will realize that sitting on the floor is the epitome of human progress and enrichment of the human spirit.

Slam Dunk!....This Singh's post seals this debate!

Thank You for the marvellous post.

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Guest Pangatwichbatto

Sitting on the floor IS the most efficient way to eat langar, and for it to be served as well.

For those who are eating: use of space is optimised and more people can eat at one time.

For the sewadars: it's easy to serve the langar and give out thaals, clean the floor etc.

Sitting on the floor also discourages people from lounging about after they eat and to talk less during langar as well.

There are several studies that have been carried out which prove that sitting in chairs is a major cause of hip-inflexibility in Westerners, in addition to numerous lower back problems. In Asia and Africa, where people squat down when farming, chatting with friends, waiting at bus/train stations, eating etc, hip problems are almost unheard of. Even the very old easily sit on the floor.

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GEO

You lose credibility and raise doubt about your sincerity and purpose when you make an outrageous comment about how you will refer to Guru Granth Sahib ji.

With respect to chairs in langar you seem to suggest 'do what is practical and efficient'? The true answer to your query lies in doing some reading up on langar. Understand things such as who was obliged to partake in langar and where they normally sat.

However, let's pretend we don't understand that …..Warm up with the first four scenarios and then reply to the last two if it helps you.

1. Geo where there are public toilets and the mens (assume you are a man) is occupied, you can wait, but do you proceed to use the womens toilet (assume it is private)? That would be the most efficient use for all involved, god would not be offended and everyone uses all toilets within a home. Common sense?

2. Assume you are in classroom or in a business meeting. It is a hot day and there is no a/c. Would you proceed to take your shirt off? That would not offend god. Common sense?

3. Assume you are a city planner responsible for parks and green space in your city. You put a number of walking trails in, would you put a safely divided driving lane in the park adjacent to each walking trail? God would not be offended and cars are much cheaper and plentiful now. Common sense?

4. Geo assume traffic was blocked and it happens the sidewalk is completely clear with enough room to clear up the congestion. Would you start driving on the sidewalk to help clear the congestion? It would not offend god. Common sense?

5. You and your sister are getting older and having difficulty finding suitable mates. You get along well and know and trust each other. Do you need a reason not to marry your sister?

6. You walk into a fine dining establishment and there are tables and chairs everywhere. Your young children wish to spread out on the floor and play before dinner arrives. They won't be getting in anyone's way. Surely god would not be offended by children playing on the floor. At home the children sit on the floor to play. Do you permit them to spread out on the restaurant floor? Common sense?

In each of the above examples, common sense is dictated by some aspect of social order or social convention. The power of a proper langar on the floor is the beauty of social convention that shouts out against insanity of social convention.

You speak of progress. However you erroneously limit the term to technological/design progress. Human progress is progress of the spirit; not the latest transport, furniture or electrical device. Read up on langar and you will realize that sitting on the floor is the epitome of human progress and enrichment of the human spirit.

1. if it is a private toliet meaning one person at a time, then it is just a toilet and not an exclusively ladies toilet even though someone may have put a sign on the door saying ladies. i would use this toilet if i knew i could lock it and if i would i would not cause inconvenience to ladies who were waiting. if i was not in a hurry then i would just wait.

2. if never gets hot enough anywhere to take a shirt off. a shirt would be light and thin especially in the summer when it is hot. i would take off a jacket or jumper or cardigan but not a tee-shirt or shirt. there would be no benefit to taking off the shirt, it is very light and thin. i may even remove socks and shoes. i have no shame in this. i would use a cloth to wet my face.

3. this point has nothing to do with god being offended or not. the park would be for quiet enjoyment and clean air. cars do not bring a benefit to the park users. also this would create access problems. in a park you do not have to stay on the walking trail you can go left or right and got to another walking trail, this would not be possible if there was "a safely divided driving lane in the park adjacent to each walking trail". you could not get through the division, cross the road and go through the second division safely or easily and if you could it be be a saftey issue. so i would not do this. i would also point out that i have some experience in park management and road and parking layout within a country park.

4. i would if it were safe to do so and not against the law i would do it. if it were an emergency and my passenger was in labour or dying i would do it no problem even if it is against the law.

5. again this is against the law so no i would not do that. also i know that children from incestious relationships have genetic problems and children between brother and sister would be most likely disabled. there is also no chance that we could not find someone better to marry than each other. even if that person were old/fat/ugly it would better to marry them than each other. everyone can find a partner this is not a problem in our world. anyone is more suitable than your brother or sister.

also on this point can i ask is this issue on the same level as tables and chairs?

incest is a very serious issue which could have massive implications for all life on earth (if everyone did it) and your comparing it to a few million sikhs and wether they eat 2%-8% of their annual meals on the floor or on tables and chair.

6. i would not take young children to a fine dining restaurant because the food would not suit them. older children i would take and they would not mess around on the floor. if i took my young children to a regular restaurant, i would still not allow them to play around on the floor, they woul sit on the chairs and eat their food along with the adults. at meal times at home they do not play on the floor, they sit and eat their food on chairs and tables or high chairs for babies.

i have answered all your question and i look forward to your reply. there has been a general flaw in your reasoning and i believe it is this: you are looking for convenience issues in the modern world but the point is that im pointing out common sense in the gurdwara langar hall.

you say:

"The power of a proper langar on the floor is the beauty of social convention that shouts out against insanity of social convention."

i would say " common sense should be used to prevent insanity wether it is social insanity or religious insanity "

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