I Found This Video On A Canadian Website

[AvnitK]

guys ur off topic go to the off topic forum!

[SaRpAnCh]

Longlive Bagri and Malik !!!! Shaheed Talwinder Singh Parmar Zindabad

He did not mean kill innoncets a Sikh never kills innocents

[SaRpAnCh]

can we get the full video of the new york speech anyone

[Soho Roadie]

:WW: Sri Maan Brahmgiani 108 Sant Baba Bhervinder Singh Jee

You have made some very disturbing and offensive comments for a Mahapursh of your calibre. Is this what your money making babeh teach you?

Firstly, I would like to condemn the statement made in that video as that is not what the Khalistani movement is about. However, without sounding like I am justifying it; I recall incidents in my life where I have said 'I am going to kill you' to someone but did not mean it. Also that statement in the video was not carried out and I bet they never had the intention of carrying it out.

Secondly Brahmgiani Mahapursh Ji, Unlike the :WW: "Sant" who were sat in their 'Bhoreh' or having meetings with Indian government officials while Gurdwareh were being burnt down, bibia were raped and children were killed, it was these Gursikh that stood up against this. I am not sayin they were perfect, but they had 'anikh' in them. To stand against a Government would take alot of himmat. We can't sit here behind our computers like 'cyber warriors' doing nindia of people who have done alot more for the Panth then we ever will.

If there are people who class them as Shaheed then why are you getting your 'dhoti' in a twist? We can talk about the theory of Sikhi and have as many bachan bilas with Mahapursh as we want, but these Gursikh who gave kurbania for the Panth should never be slandered. Even if we do not neccesarily agree with there stance, we should not have the audacity to insult them, regardless of what some book says.

To everyone who has made negative comments about Shaheed Talvinder Singh; would you have the courage to fight for the Panth? Would you sacrifice your life for the Panth? No, I didn't think so either (and neither would I)! So please before you start running your mouths off behind your computer think before you make such remarks.

Finally, if anyone wants to discuss this further then PM me and we'll meet up somewhere and discuss this. So many brave soldiers on Sikh Sangat!

Sorry just to clarify this post is in response to Dhan Dhan Sri Maan 108 Brahmgiani Mahapursh Sant Sadhu Pandit Baba Namastang Ji Maharaj's post.

[SSjatt]

I did not start the topic to harm the people who died is this battle.

It just is a example, another example, your mother is killed by someone and you scream on the media to kill sikhs, and i will give you 3 days. Whats then the diverence between Rajiv Ghandi and us.

Ik know we all are people and make mistakes, but the guruji is our example, when his family died he didnot say to kill all other people.

i am not a perpect sikh but i respect the all humans shaheed or not shaheed.

I am not the one who needs to say this but where were all sikh when punjab needed them.

Even today we talk about khalistan. why not about insaaf of 84.

I hope no one will say this words again, even if it were muslims or someone else.

I am again saying this, this man made a mistake without knowing this.

So just never forget 84.

WkWf

Pull chuk maaf karni

[N30S1NGH]

:WW: Sri Maan Brahmgiani 108 Sant Baba Bhervinder Singh Jee

You have made some very disturbing and offensive comments for a Mahapursh of your calibre. Is this what your money making babeh teach you?

Firstly, I would like to condemn the statement made in that video as that is not what the Khalistani movement is about. However, without sounding like I am justifying it; I recall incidents in my life where I have said 'I am going to kill you' to someone but did not mean it. Also that statement in the video was not carried out and I bet they never had the intention of carrying it out.

Secondly Brahmgiani Mahapursh Ji, Unlike the :WW: "Sant" who were sat in their 'Bhoreh' or having meetings with Indian government officials while Gurdwareh were being burnt down, bibia were raped and children were killed, it was these Gursikh that stood up against this. I am not sayin they were perfect, but they had 'anikh' in them. To stand against a Government would take alot of himmat. We can't sit here behind our computers like 'cyber warriors' doing nindia of people who have done alot more for the Panth then we ever will.

If there are people who class them as Shaheed then why are you getting your 'dhoti' in a twist? We can talk about the theory of Sikhi and have as many bachan bilas with Mahapursh as we want, but these Gursikh who gave kurbania for the Panth should never be slandered. Even if we do not neccesarily agree with there stance, we should not have the audacity to insult them, regardless of what some book says.

To everyone who has made negative comments about Shaheed Talvinder Singh; would you have the courage to fight for the Panth? Would you sacrifice your life for the Panth? No, I didn't think so either (and neither would I)! So please before you start running your mouths off behind your computer think before you make such remarks.

Finally, if anyone wants to discuss this further then PM me and we'll meet up somewhere and discuss this. So many brave soldiers on Sikh Sangat!

Bhai Sahib Bhai Soho Roadie Wale, bhai sahib ji you are soo chardi-kalah, you finally show me the light...! i bow to thee...! when can i come pesh to you for wearing an dhoti? i never thought my kachera looks like dhoti to you, may be its the color or no may be not, may be it does not have your jatha approval tag on it?

Anyway sarcasm posts aside soho roadie,

- I posted credible revealing from the soft target- book on talwinder singh parmar, yet you tackled the objective criticism with the same nindya card instead of sources with sources, you tackled the objective criticism with subjective feeling which are just your feelings..nothing else and nothing more.

- This people may have anakh or sidakh but so had bhagat singh/udam singh,this is not enough to enter domain of shaheedi- marjivara sikh attributes/standards set by sri guru gobind singh ji. Person with anakh/Sidakh but without shant ras is tamoguni, tamoguni only does not have any place in the panth, is far off from the dharam yudh standards set by sri guru gobind singh ji maharaj. To find out more see "revaluate meaning of shaheedi post below".

- If you read charitpokhyan, you will find dharam yudh maryada by sri guru gobind singh ji there, but lot of khalistanis would probably find this literature erotic, porno obviously thats why they failed and became tamoguni warriors. If they would have read rajniti in sri dasam granth and other puratan texts, results would lot more different. read below:

- As i said earlier, this has nothing to do with being guru's or being human beings. Its all about attributes. Guru gobind singh ji maharaj instill certain attributes/standards in khalsa , there are many true khalsa/shaheeds in the past have shown those attributes. Standards shown in the video as well life story of mahan shaheeds people like to claim is no where close to the attributes/standards sri guru gobind singh ji set for his khalsa...end of the story.

ref: Dharam Yudh Maryada (some of them are taken from treh charitar.

Literally, it means waging a war of righteousness or securing freedom and justice. Guru Hargobind Ji raised an army to fight against Mughal and Sharkari oppression and injustice. Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji amplified the Sikh concept of Dharam Yudh as under:

1. War to be waged should be without aggression or feeling of emnity and revenge.

2. Before war is begun, all peaceful means of dialiogue, arbitration and negotiation should have been tried but without any success.

3. The soldiers should be volunteers devoted to the cause.

4. The defeated enemy should be treated with consideration and compassion. No women or children be captured or maltreated.

5. That minimum force be used for subduing the enemy and as a last resort.

6. No territory is to be annexed, no looting or wilful bloodshed is permitted. The army for Dharam-Yudh must observe these conditions, for they have to set an example as Saint-Soldiers.

This was written by Guru Ji himself for all Singhs to emulate. I personally believe that these rules also serve as an excellent guide for life. Think about them along these:

1. Have no hatred towards anyone

2. Try to be reasonable and understanding, but dont let anyone walk over you!

3. Be devoted to your Guru and always aim to serve your Guru

4. Recognise everything you see around you as that of Vahiguru, love everything. Even people who maltreat you should be treated with Love, to show that whatever they do or say, the only thing that really matters in this world is Vahiguru.

5. Never try to be over-zealous and make sure that what you are doing is for the benefit of YOU and your Guru and that you DO NOT hurt the people who surround you when you are trying to achieve your goals.

6. Do not hurt anyone (physically or mentally) and do not take or receive anything that does not belong to you.

ref- Revaluate meaning of shaheedi:

First of all , let me be clear this topic is "nowhere an personal attack to personal individuals/jatha who have fought during the times of 1980's". However this topic touches a very fine mindset of an true militant who have got complete understanding of "dharam yudh maryada" within sikhism and examples of shaheedi set by our beloved Guru Sahibs- Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji, Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji.

I think every sikh with bibek buddhi can somewhat agree that not all sikh militants back in the time of 1980-1995 were 100 percent genuine and they were some who were driven by vengeance not "revenge". This two different terms, vengeance is state of mind where a person who is soo driven by it, that will use any "unjustified force" to eliminate the target, even though that unjustified force will kill innocent civilians. Whereas true sikh of sri guru gobind singh ji, will use only "justified force" to eliminate the target that means abort the missions if its turning out that there are innocent civilians on the way of target. In real world, this is painful, talk to any militants around the world, amount of pressure they get and planning they have spent to eliminate the target is over-whelming, hence in their dictionary if target (ruthless opressors/killer) is eliminated even in the cost of one-two innocent civilians is acceptable, but remember we are not just any joe blow sormaie/soldiers , we are given an beautiful concept of saint and sipahi, we are given ideals of khalsa, shaheedi, maryada in the dharam yudh. In the dharam yudh, singh under no circumstances doesnt not target - innocent civilians. Regardless how much pressure, how much planning is done to kill targets, singh should instantly boycatt/cancel the mission to target (ruthless killers/oppressors) after knowning it will cost an live of an innocent.

Classical example of such sikhs who have gravely failed to be sikhs of sri guru nanak dev ji let alone- sant-sipahi, or shaheeds is an clip below, fwd to 3 minute- http://media.cbc.ca:8080/ramgen/cbc.ca/new...wski_030909b.rm

Quote " There will be sikhs around, thats a price of our revolution".

Now its sikhs in the interview shown in the clip, i dont care where they from, which group they belong, they have every terrorist intent around that time in their mind to target anyone , have no regards for life of an innocent individuals, as sikhs in that clip said- after all this is the price of our revolution.

not targetting the jatha/personality but targetting the mindset of such fanatics, question to sangat , do they qualify to call themselves sant sipahi of sri guru gobind singh ji? if they were killed, do they qualify to be in realm of shaheedi which is very very pure concept laid down by examples of our guru's, sahibzadas, great warriors- baba deep singh ji, 40 mukhte, great mothers within khalsa panth. Do they qualify to have their names read next to great warriors like- baba deep singh??

Sikh need to be first sant (dya, dharam, sat, santokh, gyan) and then sipahi, its not other way around, only sipahihood in an person makes them demonic/tamoguni nothing else. You need santhood first and sipahi to anaylise each and every suitation in dharam yudh to questions- how much justified force need to be used? do assessment of dharam yudh, how is it impacting other innocent civilians life? how can one eliminate an target(ruthless killers/oppressors) soo pricesly that no innocent life is lost. And no these attributes of santhood first then sipahihood and questions and assesmment of dharam yudh is not only limited to only jathedar but each one of us who have desire to be shaheeds for the panth and Guru have this responsiblity.

Call this personal opnion since i dont have direct proof but fight for khalistan was failed because some in the movement

a) were just people, joe blow soramaie with terrorist intent use khalsa panth for their personal revenges ie- oh guy killed my family, i m going to kill his, all in the garb of kesh, dhara and all in garb of khalsa panth

b) gov't infiltration, nobody is ignoring that, however to use this govt inflitration on every stance is foolishness. to even be more foolish that to deny lack of acknowledgement that there is strategic failure.

c) lack of acknowledgement that there is such thing as "sikhs with terrorist intent, fanaticism within sikhs.

d) ignoring dharam yudh maryada the points are listed in sri dasam granth.

e) ignoring the concept of santhood (dya, dharam, sat, santokh, gyan) and then sipahi, its not other way around, only sipahihood in an person makes them demonic/tamoguni nothing else. You need santhood first and sipahi to anaylise each and every suitation in dharam yudh to questions- how much justified force need to be used? do assessment of dharam yudh, how is it impacting other innocent civilians life? how can one eliminate an target(ruthless killers/oppressors) soo pricesly that no innocent life is lost. And no these attributes of santhood first then sipahihood and questions and assesmment of dharam yudh is not only limited to only jathedar but each one of us who have desire to be shaheeds for the panth and Guru have this responsiblity.

Last but not least, yesterday i went to gurdwara, its my personal observation, but in the langar hall, all i can see pictures of "shaheeds" with no description of what they did, how genuine they were etc. This leads to great misconception if forgein reporter, media person walks in, he/she all they will see its guns, violence ruthless killers thats what they see , they need more information to change what they saw. This needs to be changed, description needs to be added, as for calling each and every sikh with gun in the langar hall - shaheed, i wouldnt go that far, i would hold my judgement until i study them, i think shaheed label itself just like- sant, bhramgyani, gyani, das is been over used and over abused.

Its about time we all re-evaulate our stance on concept of shaheedi laid by our beloved guru's via santhood-sipahihood, dharam yudh maryada lets not use pure term very freely,losely. Not saying to be hard core skeptic fanatic either but just have open mind, bring your own opnion after studying them.

True sikh of sri guru gobind singh ji, will use only "justified force" to eliminate the target that means abort the missions if its turning out that there are innocent civilians on the way of target. In real world, this is painful, talk to any militants around the world, amount of pressure they get and planning they have spent to eliminate the target is over-whelming, hence in their dictionary if target (ruthless opressors/killer) is eliminated even in the cost of one-two innocent civilians is acceptable, but remember we are not just any joe blow sormaie/soldiers , we are given an beautiful concept of saint and sipahi, we are given ideals of khalsa, shaheedi, maryada in the dharam yudh. In the dharam yudh, singh under no circumstances doesnt not target - innocent civilians. Regardless how much pressure, how much planning is done to kill targets, singh should instantly boycatt/cancel the mission to target (ruthless killers/oppressors) after knowning it will cost an live of an innocent.

Sikh need to be first sant (dya, dharam, sat, santokh, gyan) and then sipahi, its not other way around, only sipahihood in an person makes them demonic/tamoguni nothing else. You need santhood first and sipahi to anaylise each and every suitation in dharam yudh to questions- how much justified force need to be used? do assessment of dharam yudh, how is it impacting other innocent civilians life? how can one eliminate an target(ruthless killers/oppressors) soo pricesly that no innocent life is lost. And no these attributes of santhood first then sipahihood and questions and assesmment of dharam yudh is not only limited to only jathedar but each one of us who have desire to be shaheeds for the panth and Guru have this responsiblity.

[Soho Roadie]

Firstly, Mahapursh Ji, I could quote Khalistani books and literature stating the greatness of Shaheed Talvinder Singh. Then you will reply with your anti-Khalistani books and visa-versa. It will be like cat and mouse; maybe you got time for that but I haven't. It is true to say my post was an expression of feeling; what's your point? Your obviously expressing your hatred and resentment for Shaheed Singhs of the 80's/90's through feelings. But I'm not surprised after reading your comment about that disgusting gay boy's marriage! Hence your resentment of Shaheed Singhs i.e. real men.

Before you start denying it, think back to your post on the pictures of Shaheed Singhs in the langar hall. At first I thought you've probably got a problem with Shaheed Talvinder Singh but seems like you got something stuck up your *** with everyone! Singhs in the Khalistan movement had more Kamai than your perverted money making babeh will ever have.

I've read books where they have slandered the great Mahan Shaheed of the Panth like Sahibzada Baba Ajit Singh and Baba Banda Singh Bahadur. Does that mean I should believe what I have read in a book?

You pupoo, who the hell are you to decide who enters the domain of Shaheedi-marjivara? Unless you know something we don't know due to your Brahmgianta. Akaal Takht Sahib has declared many of these Singhs as Shaheed so again what's stuck up your ***?

You say we should be Sant then Sipahi, fair enough. So where were the Sant in the 80's and 90's when Bibia were raped? Where were the Sant when children were slaughtered? Surely they were Sant so was it not time to become Sipahi?

The Singhs who fought in the movement had followed dharam yudh maryada:

"Jabey baan laagiyo Tabey ros jaagiyo"

Conclusion

I don't think I am going to convince you, neither is that my intention. But one thing I will say is that don't slander these Singhs. If you don't agree with their stance then that's your problem. I'm glad you're not from the UK, someone will ended up kicking your ***! Stick to your Sant Mat. You talk about that Bhasuria mindset, which has definitely polluted the Panth. But I think people with your mentality are just as bigger danger!

[N30S1NGH]

I wont even bother responding to your post. However like to clear up one bit of your post when you said:

Before you start denying it, think back to your post on the pictures of Shaheed Singhs in the langar hall. At first I thought you've probably got a problem with Shaheed Talvinder Singh but seems like you got something stuck up your *** with everyone! Singhs in the Khalistan movement had more Kamai than your perverted money making babeh will ever have.

I have no problems with shaheeds in the khalistani movement, if i had i wouldnt have pictures of shaheed singhs like sant jarnail singh ji bhindranwale and bhai fauja singh ji in the house, i again re-quote you can read it between the lines, especially bold parts but for now it seems like you missed the point of this paragraph below.

i went to gurdwara, its my personal observation, but in the langar hall, all i can see pictures of "shaheeds" with no description of what they did, how genuine they were etc. This leads to great misconception if forgein reporter, media person walks in, he/she all they will see its guns, violence ruthless killers thats what they see , they need more information to change what they saw. This needs to be changed, description needs to be added, as for calling each and every sikh with gun in the langar hall - shaheed, i wouldnt go that far, i would hold my judgement until i study them, i think shaheed label itself just like- sant, bhramgyani, gyani, das is been over used and over abused.

[wjkk wjkf]

u lot slander too much

[N30S1NGH]

I'm glad you're not from the UK, someone will ended up kicking your ***!

vah ji vah another subtle threat i received within two days, what you going to do soho rodaie rude boi ? petrol bomb my family car? thats what you uk fanatics are good for yea? i m sure you twats got hockey sticks in back of your car, you people should join talibans in afghanistan if you are obbessed with starting jihad over my objective comments.. koi na, next time i ll come over UK i ll defaniately call you, will see how much juice you have or you just another empty vessel.. Talvinder singh parmar, ajaib singh bagri lived almost all their life here in canada, i think we canadians know what they are all about instead of some twat warriors bigging up their sikhi via gangasta style in UK.

I already know what you all about, heard lot about you..so i wasnt suprised at your comments... these days after looking at sikh fanatics petrol bombing family cars, beating old people its very safe to assume- sikh panth also have handful of amritdhari mobs just like how hindus have their handful of shiv shena mobs.