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Gorakh, Brahma, Mother Parbhati........according To Guru Nanak They Are Gurus

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44 minutes ago, singh1606 said:

It seems Sikhism and sikhs have become less about nirankar and his various forms and experiences and more about simply devta bashing. It is the Kal yug after all there is bound to be confusion with inexperienced minds who believe they know and have experienced everything as though they were Brahma gyanis themselves. Be a sikh first and learn with an unbiased and open mind rather than reverting to nindya by nature and automatically, without having even tried to understand what you are denouncing. It's simply repetition of secondary and tertiary interpretations of certain parchariks, not accurate to what Bani says. 

but bro you just equated Guru Granth Sahib ji as Vishnu a few posts up ... waho wah bani nirankar hai  tis jevad avar no koi ang 515 Mahala 3  . Don't contradict Guru ji please ...  I don't say from my low position but from what my Guru ji has told me

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58 minutes ago, singh1606 said:

Guru Gobind Singh uses Shivas name interchangeably with akal, in "De Shiva bar mohe" because what guru gobind Singh did as rishi Dust Daman in Hemkunt sahib, Shiva had done long ago as well at Mt. Kailash in the Himalayas near Mansarovar. So the guru pays his respect toward Shiva as Akal's form because Shiva is a more senior Brahma gyani, Vishnu Brahma and Shiva are our universes oldest Brahma gyanis that is why they are able to carry out Akals hukum of creation, destruction, and sustenance of the universe. When you do nindya of these Devs you are not getting anyone's belssings at all. Additionally, guru gobind Singh was not the only one to become Akali at hemkunt sahib, Pandu, the 5 Pandav brothers with Draupadi, and Laksman Sri ram chander's brother aka Shesh Naga also did bhagti at that same spot guru gobind Singh did as well, in the form of rishi Dust Daman. 

What a load of tosh. He never pays respect to Shiva, never once. Shiva's brahmgyan is limited and narrow. What Brahmgyani calls himself God? I've never heard of it. Never has a Sant said he's God and that we should worship him. Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva are all one of MILLIONS doing that, there isn't 1 of them but billions upon billions. Read the Brahmgyani Astphadi in Sukhmani Sahib, Shiva looks for Brahmgyanis, he isn't one. Devtas are extremely Jealous of human life as it is. Why would Guru Gobind singh Ji (Akaal Purkh himself) pay respect or even bow before any of the trinity. He's so far above them words can't even describe it.

Shiva used in that context is referring to "Destroyer Lord" not to Shiva the Yogi. Learn some proper Gurmat before spewing nonsense like this.

55 minutes ago, singh1606 said:

That's why I said you are lost because you are just soooo busy devta bashing. you do not understand and you do not personally know Shiva or other Brahma gyanis and their opinions, yet you already have such predetermined and strong opinions about them, without understanding their struggles or level of spirituality and their Akali Shakti, relation to Akal, and role in our universe. 

 

I already know their role in the universe. How do I know? Because Guru Sahib told me through Gurbani, something you clearly don't read. Where have I bashed them? I said their egotistical, which is written in Gurmat, I said their lost in Maya which they are, as stated in Gurbani.  The only Sargun form of Akaal Purkh that ever existed is Guru Nanak Dev Ji, no one else has come even close to it. The Devta have their duties, but calling them the Sargun form of Akaal is the same as saying you and I are. 

 

53 minutes ago, singh1606 said:

It seems Sikhism and sikhs have become less about nirankar and his various forms and experiences and more about simply devta bashing. It is the Kal yug after all there is bound to be confusion with inexperienced minds who believe they know and have experienced everything as though they were Brahma gyanis themselves. Be a sikh first and learn with an unbiased and open mind rather than reverting to nindya by nature and automatically, without having even tried to understand what you are denouncing. It's simply repetition of secondary and tertiary interpretations of certain parchariks, not accurate to what Bani says. 

No one's bashed any Devtas. All of us have stated what's in Tat Gurmat. You love to throw the word Nindya around, Guru Gobind Singh Ji refers to Krishna and Rama as being insects. Wow I guess that's Nindya too, Guru Sahib also states that Durga claims to be Ad Bhavani but during the time of true Mukhti she hides her face as she has no power to do anything. Wow More Nindya. 

I gained my knowledge from Purtan Brahmgyanis, Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji also states that Vishnu, Brahma, Shiva are so far below Guru Sahib its beyond words. The same Devtas you want to smash your head for are the same ones who beg at Guru Gobind Singh Ji's door, the same Devtas are nothing more than his servants.

 

Nindya is stating Falsehood, if stating Gurbani is falsehood then im fine being a Nindaak. The highlighted above is a sign that you have no idea what you're saying. No true Sikh would dare say anyone is Above Guru Sahib in anything. 

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Yeah Vishnu is Nirankar in sargun form, so is bani. Akal can take multiple forms. You are the one limiting guru granth sahib to the physical form of a book, when the guru is Nirankar and thus can take any form. 

Limiting Nirankar like that is actually nindya. 

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Just now, singh1606 said:

Yeah Vishnu is Nirankar in sargun form, so is bani. Akal can take multiple forms. You are the one limiting guru granth sahib to the physical form of a book, when the guru is Nirankar and thus can take any form. 

Limiting Nirankar like that is actually nindya. 

By that Logic so are you. You're Akaal in Sargun form, so let's all bow to you too.

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Just now, Kira said:

By that Logic so are you. You're Akaal in Sargun form, so let's all bow to you too.

Yes that us true everything is Akal. "Sabh gobind hai sabh gobind hai gobind bin avar na koi" 

But I don't have that knowledge through experience and reality, that's what Brahma gyani means, one who has the knowledge and experience that he is himself Akal. 

*Man tu joot saroop hai, apna mool paichaan." 

 

If I had that Gyan knowledge I would be Brahma gyanis, and then you could bow to me and it would be acceptable. Because "Brahma gyani ap Nirankar." 

The three dev are the tin chayle parvaan they are pooran brahm gyani. 

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Because Bhai randhir Singh refers to Nirankar through guru grant sahib as a physical representation. No one is above the formless Lord, not even guru granth sahib. 

Only the form less Akali Nirankar is above all, even guru grant sahib ji's physical saroop will eventually become birad, or old and withered, and a sanskar cremation will have to be done. Because only Nirankar lasts forever, he is Akal which means outside and unaffected by time, which means no youth or old age, this is why Nirankar is above all sargun forms of Akal whether guru grant sahib, Shiva, guru gobind Singh, guru teg Bahadur, other rishis etc. 

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Just now, singh1606 said:

Yes that us true everything is Akal. "Sabh gobind hai sabh gobind hai gobind bin avar na koi" 

But I don't have that knowledge through experience and reality, that's what Brahma gyani means, one who has the knowledge and experience that he is himself Akal. 

*Man tu joot saroop hai, apna mool paichaan." 

 

If I had that Gyan knowledge I would be Brahma gyanis, and then you could bow to me and it would be acceptable. Because "Brahma gyani ap Nirankar." 

The three dev are the tin chayle parvaan they are pooran brahm gyani. 

No they are not. What Brahmgyani in the world is enslaved by maya. Brahmgyanis are beyond the influences of Maya, The Trinity are not. You're ripping Gurbani apart, that entire first is reference to the trinity being subordinate to Maya, Maya in the context of Gurbani within Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is ALWAYS an enchantress who leads men astray. Guru Gobind Singh Ji already said the Devta (the trinity in fact) are nothing more than power-worshipers who told people to worship them as God, are you going to deny that? Brahmgyanis don't worship power nor do they tell people to bow to them. Bhai Maharaj Singh Ji used to make sure no one touched his feet, to the point when someone did he had that person hunted down and then he touched that persons feet. Please stop doing Nindya of Brahmgyanis.

ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ 
आसा महला ५ ॥ 
Āsā mėhlā 5. 
Aasaa, Fifth Mehl: 

ਮਾਥੈ ਤ੍ਰਿਕੁਟੀ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਕਰੂਰਿ ॥ 
माथै त्रिकुटी द्रिसटि करूरि ॥ 
Māthai ṯarikutī ḏarisat karūr. 
A frown creases her forehead, and her look is evil. 

ਬੋਲੈ ਕਉੜਾ ਜਿਹਬਾ ਕੀ ਫੂੜਿ ॥ 
बोलै कउड़ा जिहबा की फूड़ि ॥ 
Bolai ka▫uṛā jihbā kī fūṛ. 
Her speech is bitter, and her tongue is rude. 

ਸਦਾ ਭੂਖੀ ਪਿਰੁ ਜਾਨੈ ਦੂਰਿ ॥੧॥ 
सदा भूखी पिरु जानै दूरि ॥१॥ 
Saḏā bẖūkẖī pir jānai ḏūr. ||1|| 
She is always hungry, and she believes her Husband to be far away. ||1|| 

ਐਸੀ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਇਕ ਰਾਮਿ ਉਪਾਈ ॥ 
ऐसी इसत्री इक रामि उपाई ॥ 
Aisī isṯarī ik rām upā▫ī. 
Such is Maya, the woman, which the One Lord has created. 

ਉਨਿ ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਖਾਇਆ ਹਮ ਗੁਰਿ ਰਾਖੇ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 
उनि सभु जगु खाइआ हम गुरि राखे मेरे भाई ॥ रहाउ ॥ 
Un sabẖ jag kẖā▫i▫ā ham gur rākẖe mere bẖā▫ī. Rahā▫o. 
She is devouring the whole world, but the Guru has saved me, O my Siblings of Destiny. ||Pause|| 

ਪਾਇ ਠਗਉਲੀ ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਜੋਹਿਆ ॥ 
पाइ ठगउली सभु जगु जोहिआ ॥ 
Pā▫e ṯẖag▫ulī sabẖ jag johi▫ā. 
Administering her poisons, she has overcome the whole world. 

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹਾਦੇਉ ਮੋਹਿਆ ॥ 
ब्रहमा बिसनु महादेउ मोहिआ ॥ 
Barahmā bisan mahāḏe▫o mohi▫ā. 
She has bewitched Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. 

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਲਗੇ ਸੇ ਸੋਹਿਆ ॥੨॥ 
गुरमुखि नामि लगे से सोहिआ ॥२॥ 
Gurmukẖ nām lage se sohi▫ā. ||2|| 
Only those Gurmukhs who are attuned to the Naam are blessed. ||2|| 

What more do you want? A brahmgyani that's enchanted and will die? never heard of that since Brahmgyanis are always alive and never feel the wrath of Death. The Trinity will. 

 

So here's your choice. Either accept Guru Sahib's blessed Raag that shows the Trinity are corrupt or stay within your own manmat and challenge Gurbani. If you feel the translations are off I can do one for you too.

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3 minutes ago, singh1606 said:

Because Bhai randhir Singh refers to Nirankar through guru grant sahib as a physical representation. No one is above the formless Lord, not even guru granth sahib. 

Only the form less Akali Nirankar is above all, even guru grant sahib ji's physical saroop will eventually become birad, or old and withered, and a sanskar cremation will have to be done. Because only Nirankar lasts forever, he is Akal which means outside and unaffected by time, which means no youth or old age, this is why Nirankar is above all sargun forms of Akal whether guru grant sahib, Shiva, guru gobind Singh, guru teg Bahadur, other rishis etc. 

No he does not. Now you're doing Nindya, read Uniditi Duniya, he outright says that Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva can't understand the lord. Any true Brahmgyani is one with the lord so he always understands the Lord. So no they are not brahmgyanis.

ਤੇ ਹਮ ਤਮਕਿ ਤਨਿਕ ਮੋ ਖਾਪੇ ॥

Te Hama Tamaki Tanika Mo Khaape ॥

ते हम तमकि तनक मो खापे ॥

ਤਿਨ ਕੀ ਠਉਰ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਥਾਪੇ ॥

Tin Kee Tthaur Devataa Thaape ॥

तिन की ठउर देवता थापे ॥

I destroyed them in no time and created gods in their place.

ਤੇ ਭੀ ਬਲਿ ਪੂਜਾ ਉਰਝਾਏ ॥

Te Bhee Bali Poojaa Aurjhaaee ॥

ते भी बलि पूजा उरझाए ॥

ਆਪਨ ਹੀ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥੭॥

Aapan Hee Parmesur Kahaaee ॥7॥

आपन ही परमेसुर कहाए ॥७॥

They were also absorbed in the worship of power and called themselves Ominipotednt.7.

ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਅਚੁਤ ਕਹਵਾਯੋ ॥

Mahaadev Achuta Kahavaayo ॥

महादेव अचु्त कहायो ॥

ਬਿਸਨ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਠਹਰਾਯੋ ॥

Bisan Aapa Hee Ko Tthaharaayo ॥

बिसन आप ही को ठहिरायो ॥

Mahadeo (Shiva) was called Achyuta (blotless), Vishnu considered himself the Supreme.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਆਪ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬਖਾਨਾ ॥

Barhamaa Aapa Paarabarhama Bakhaanaa ॥

ब्रहमा आप पारब्रहम बखाना ॥

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਜਾਨਾ ॥੮॥

Parbha Ko Parbhoo Na Kinhooaan Jaanaa ॥8॥

प्रभ को प्रभू न किनहूं जाना ॥८॥

Brahma called himself Para Brahman, none could comprehend the Lord.8.

 

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The 3 dev were the first entities to be created, before any human or rishi or avtar. So they were the first to be exposed to the affects of Maya. So they were at some point, does that mean they still are. That in 4 yugs of time they were unable to overcome it and realize Akal? But in 500 year span of time all of a sudden truth was suddenly apparent? 

But then according to that logic, then the mool is inaccurate, then you have clearly stated that truth arrived only in Kal yug in the form of guru nanak, because he is the only possible brahm gyani while everyone else is basically number 2 level and not full truth. But mool mantar says that full truth has existed in previous yugs as well and not just guru nanak's Kal yug. And guru nanak avtar was technically unavailable in sat treta or dwapr yug as it came only in Kal yug. So you need to clarify then the aad Sach jugaad Sach part of mool mantar since truth in full form existed in previous yugs as well and not just Kal yug. 

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No brahm gyani will ever say I fully understood Akal. They will always say he is completely limitless and it is imperceptible to completely understand the singular formless being. 

You are the one trying to restrict that being in your incomplete understanding of Dharma, which has existed in all yugs not just guru nanak's Kal yug. If dharma existed so did brhm gyanis and gurus to maintain that dharm. 

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4 minutes ago, singh1606 said:

The 3 dev were the first entities to be created, before any human or rishi or avtar. So they were the first to be exposed to the affects of Maya. So they were at some point, does that mean they still are. That in 4 yugs of time they were unable to overcome it and realize Akal? But in 500 year span of time all of a sudden truth was suddenly apparent? 

 

There are millions of Vishnus, Shivas and Brahmas, all doing their jobs. Yes they are still attached to Maya, they will be because that's Guru Sahib's Hukam. Gurbani stated they are, that type of logic can be applied to anything and anyone. They've not overcome it in Satyug, Treta and Dwaypur. They have no chance in Kalyug until they forsake their own egos, Which is when Guru Gobind SIngh Ji came into the Earth and he stated that this is why following them is wrong. So yes they still are.

Quote

But then according to that logic, then the mool is inaccurate, then you have clearly stated that truth arrived only in Kal yug in the form of guru nanak, because he is the only possible brahm gyani while everyone else is basically number 2 level and not full truth. But mool mantar says that full truth has existed in previous yugs as well and not just guru nanak's Kal yug. And guru nanak avtar was technically unavailable in sat treta or dwapr yug as it came only in Kal yug. So you need to clarify then the aad Sach jugaad Sach part of mool mantar since truth in full form existed in previous yugs as well and not just Kal yug. 

Guru Nanak Dev Ji is Sargun Roop of Akaal Purkh, He HAS always existed. He provided Gurmat to the truth Bhagats in all the ages. Bhagat Prahlad, Bhagat Dhanna Ji, Bhagat Kabir Ji ALL learned from Guru Nanak Dev Ji as he's always been around as he is Akaal Roop.

1 minute ago, singh1606 said:

No brahm gyani will ever say I fully understood Akal. They will always say he is completely limitless and it is imperceptible to completely understand the singular formless being. 

 

Correct. But they'll never claim to God as the Trinity do. They are God themselves so they know the limits of God anyways, that's their nimrita talking, and one thing they never do is point fingers at other Brahmgyanis as they are beyond that. So as Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir singh Ji said, the Trinity aren't Brahmgyanis because Maya controls them and they are bound to her and not to God as Gurmukhs are.

1 minute ago, singh1606 said:

 

You are the one trying to restrict that being in your incomplete understanding of Dharma, which has existed in all yugs not just guru nanak's Kal yug. If dharma existed so did brhm gyanis and gurus to maintain that dharm. 

No I am not. I'm pointing out how you're so lost in your own little world you're ignoring the Gurbani that criticizes and tells Sikhs not to fall into the same trap as them. The Guru in all the ages has been Guru Nanak Dev Ji. The True Brahmgyanis also existed but the Trinity aren't them.

 

Please listen to this Katha on the failings of the Trinity given by examples and how Maya has ensnared them.

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Gurbachan_Singh_(Bhindran_wale)/Guru_Granth_Sahib_Larivaar_Katha/Volume_05_Ang_0347-0462/042--Sant.Gurbachan.Singh.(Bhindran.wale)--Raag.Aasaa--Ang-394%2B395.mp3

Sant Ji is a Brahmgyani and if he believes the Trinity are ensnared by Maya then so do I. Just as it's written in Gurbani. So you can either call him a liar or agree with him.

 

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And also referring to your comment about Chandi Di Vaar above, guru gobind Singh ji explicitly states that is in honor of Durga specifically, not just this generalized concept if Shakti you were staging, without a specific name or form. 

At the end of Chandi Di Vaar: "Durga path banaya sabe pauriya pher na joonie aya Jin eh Gaya." 

Translation: this Durga prayer I have made, whoever sings it will not be affected by birth or death. 

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34 minutes ago, singh1606 said:

Yeah Vishnu is Nirankar in sargun form, so is bani. Akal can take multiple forms. You are the one limiting guru granth sahib to the physical form of a book, when the guru is Nirankar and thus can take any form. 

Limiting Nirankar like that is actually nindya. 

great so according to you I should disregard gurbani's arth as incomplete picture of Sat ...wow and I'm doing nindiya by repeating dhan Dhan Guru Amar Das ji's bachan to us.  Bani is  not influenced by maya unlike vishnu ...SMH

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Yes he has always existed, but in what form then? To exist means to be also present in some form in the world as well. What form was it? Because it's not guru nanak dev, that only occurred in kal yug. He is jugaad Sach, present in all yugs. What about sat yug, treta yug, dwapr yug??

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The old khalsas called themselves Akali, does that not state that you are of Akal and therefore a Godly being?

 

Sure tridev maybe affected by Maya at some point, but how long did it last? 

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