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Gorakh, Brahma, Mother Parbhati........according To Guru Nanak They Are Gurus

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singh1606    4

Today's sikhs are useless. They aren't even real sikhs. They like to divide dharam in to sikh and then everyone else. And then they degrade that everyone else as inferior while at the same time saying Good is in them as well and our Guru is like isar Brahma or Vishnu for us. Which is contradictory and hypocritical. Today's sikhs can't see the same guru in the form of Brahma or Shiva or Parvatti, the guru has to be a bearded man for them. Preferably with a white beard holding out a hand. They don't realize that the guru is the same as this aforementioned. I suggest you read what Jap ji sahib is saying and it is saying exactly as the original poster read it, everything else you read in this thread is a secondary or tertiary interpretation and can skew the original message. Just read the primary source and what it says. Don't let others' egotistical interpretations of Sikhism get in the way. The guru is beyond their ego, the same guru you bow down to in Gurdwara had also taken the form of Shiva, gorakh and Parvati mai. Sikhs today are confining guru grant sahib to his physical form as a book, when he has had taken these forms as well in the past. It's the same guru aad Sach jugaad Sach hai bhi Sach nanak hosi bhi Sach. Guru granth sahib did not start existing 500 years ago, he was always around since the beginning but in different forms, like Shiva, like Parvati, like Gorakh Nath. Sikhs today say Sikhism is so deep it is limitless, guru grant sahib is so deep and limitless, yet they limit them at the same time and can't see the fact that that same guru did and could have had numerous forms and that because he is limitless he could take the form of Shiva et al as well. They say he is limitless but tend to suppress him in whatever form they think is correct according to their own knowledge. This is what is meant by mahadev kou kahat sada siv nirankar ka cheenat nai bhiv they think the one is only the form of Shiva, when he was also the form of Vishnu and Brahma the rishis and Parvati as well , when he also has no form at all to. Same with sikhs today, they think nirankar is only in the form of guru granth sahib when that is not spiritually accurate since nirnkar is aad Sach jugaad Sach hai bhi Sach nanak hosi bhi Sach, he was around in various forms before Guru Nanak even took avtar before even yet inventing the oora shabd,, that's where Shiva Brahma and Vishnu come in when Gorakh Nath come in, they are him too just reinvented in another form. This is what modern day "sikhs" refuse to understand, they rather hang on to their ego that we are special and above everyone else, like the misled brahmins of the past, that is what they have become today. No understanding just trying to portray they want to see him not what he actually is. Not by What he is actually saying. 

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jkvlondon    3,419
14 hours ago, singh1606 said:

Today's sikhs are useless. They aren't even real sikhs. They like to divide dharam in to sikh and then everyone else. And then they degrade that everyone else as inferior while at the same time saying Good is in them as well and our Guru is like isar Brahma or Vishnu for us. Which is contradictory and hypocritical. Today's sikhs can't see the same guru in the form of Brahma or Shiva or Parvatti, the guru has to be a bearded man for them. Preferably with a white beard holding out a hand. They don't realize that the guru is the same as this aforementioned. I suggest you read what Jap ji sahib is saying and it is saying exactly as the original poster read it, everything else you read in this thread is a secondary or tertiary interpretation and can skew the original message. Just read the primary source and what it says. Don't let others' egotistical interpretations of Sikhism get in the way. The guru is beyond their ego, the same guru you bow down to in Gurdwara had also taken the form of Shiva, gorakh and Parvati mai. Sikhs today are confining guru grant sahib to his physical form as a book, when he has had taken these forms as well in the past. It's the same guru aad Sach jugaad Sach hai bhi Sach nanak hosi bhi Sach. Guru granth sahib did not start existing 500 years ago, he was always around since the beginning but in different forms, like Shiva, like Parvati, like Gorakh Nath. Sikhs today say Sikhism is so deep it is limitless, guru grant sahib is so deep and limitless, yet they limit them at the same time and can't see the fact that that same guru did and could have had numerous forms and that because he is limitless he could take the form of Shiva et al as well. They say he is limitless but tend to suppress him in whatever form they think is correct according to their own knowledge. This is what is meant by mahadev kou kahat sada siv nirankar ka cheenat nai bhiv they think the one is only the form of Shiva, when he was also the form of Vishnu and Brahma the rishis and Parvati as well , when he also has no form at all to. Same with sikhs today, they think nirankar is only in the form of guru granth sahib when that is not spiritually accurate since nirnkar is aad Sach jugaad Sach hai bhi Sach nanak hosi bhi Sach, he was around in various forms before Guru Nanak even took avtar before even yet inventing the oora shabd,, that's where Shiva Brahma and Vishnu come in when Gorakh Nath come in, they are him too just reinvented in another form. This is what modern day "sikhs" refuse to understand, they rather hang on to their ego that we are special and above everyone else, like the misled brahmins of the past, that is what they have become today. No understanding just trying to portray they want to see him not what he actually is. Not by What he is actually saying. 

bro one point 

Guru ji is app Parmeshvar i.e. mukht (free from Maya, panj chor etc.)

Guru ji has also pointed out how Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva are subject to Maya and panj chor according to ancient texts  so how can they be equivalent ?

Sikhi is the true underlying path for all the universe because it expresses the truth behind sargun roop and how labels fall away as one progresses .

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harsharan000    1,911

I very much agree with jkvlondon Pen Jee.

Sree Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj, clears all our doubts regarding that primal universal eternal Truth, right from the very begining of SGGS, when He states : Ik Oankar Satnam.

There is only one Lord Creator,  not  multiplicity in forms or shapes and sizes, as these gods are along with their spouses and children.

And that One Lord  is  Sat = Truth as eternity in existence, and as Nam, as an Infinite  Ocean of  formless Consciousness.

That´s it.

Third Patshahee Sree Guru Amar Das Maharaj tells us in Raag Maajh :

ਉਤਪਤਿ ਪਰਲਉ ਸਬਦੇ ਹੋਵੈ

Outhapath Paralo Sabadhae Hovai ||

Creation and destruction happen through the Word of the Shabad,

ਸਬਦੇ ਹੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਓਪਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ

Sabadhae Hee Fir Oupath Hovai ||

Through the Shabad, creation happens again.

 

So that eternal Truth, is Naam or Shabad, as per Gurbani.

Moreover, Dhan Dhan Satguru Nanak Dev Maharaj, tells us in Japji Sahib :  Sach Khand vaseh Nirankar.

in the region of eternal Truth, resides (Nirankar) the formless Lord, which is as thus:

aad Sach, jugaad Sach, hae bhee Sach, Nanak hosee bhee Sach.

So we can cleary see through the Bani, it is Shabad or Naam, which is the eternal form of Wahiguru Akal Purukh, as eternal Truth or Satnam.

The trinity gods, godesses, devtays, angels and other spirtual beings, are usuallly mistaken as ultimate Truth, by most of the world.

These gods/entities, have a purpose, a specfic job, to keep on the mayavee creation, that is it, but never ever are Wahiguru.

Our goal is Wahiguru Akal Purukh alone, none else.

Sat Sree Akal.

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singh1606    4

Of course everyone is temporary, all sargun forms of Akal ie guru nanak, Vishnu, Shiva, et al will all disappear once Akal decides to destroy everything and be by his own self. Akal is Nirankar he has no foem, when everything is destroyed there will only be formlessness. In the beginning Akal was by himself with no one else, therefore not just Shiva brhma and Vishnu are subject to the end of this game that Akal has started, guru nanak himself will also be included when the formless one decides to end everything. The guru uses the example of Brahma Shiva and Vishnu because they were the first 3 beings created by Akal, they are his first 3 sikhs in the universe. Eka Mai jugat vai tin chele parvaan (Brahma Vishnu Mahesh/Shiva) ik sansari(brhma Akal creates through brhma) ik bhandari (the sustainer vushnu) ik lai diban (Shiva the desteoyer) these are Akal purakhs tin chayle parvaan his accepted 3 students or first 3 sikhs of the universe. The guru uses them as an example because even they will not remain when Akal decides to end this game, therefore nothing at all will remain as it was before creation ensues. And when the formless one feels like it again he will recreate the tin chayle and recreate sustain and accordingly destroy the universe. "Kai bar pasrayo pasar sada ik ik onkar"If even the creating force of Akal the sustaining force and even the destroying force will not survive what will happen to the rest of the universe? That is why they are used as prime examples because they are primal and the oldest creations of Akal. 

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singh1606    4

These beings are Akal puraks sargun physical form. They are his physical arms, otherwise Akal has no actual form or color. That is why they are also stated as guru, because only through the physical guru can you find the formless guru. That is the function of guru nanak Shiva et al. Gur isar gur Gorakh Brahma gur Parvati mai, Akal has taken the form of a guru in many ways, that is stretching from sat yug all the way to Kal yug. There have been so many gurus. In Kal yug alone just in the span of 500 years there have 10 enlightened beings, imagine the many throughout the eons and millions of years of all four yugs. This is why it's said that sikhs today have cut Sikhism short, to begin only at 1469, the correction is that the concept of Sikhism had started with Brahma Vishnu and Mahesh as the tin chayle parvaan, the correct answer is that avtar of guru nanak dev occurred in 1469 where Sikhism was again reintroduced to Hind. After being lost in the darkness and ignorance of Kal yug. 

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jkvlondon    3,419
16 hours ago, singh1606 said:

These beings are Akal puraks sargun physical form. They are his physical arms, otherwise Akal has no actual form or color. That is why they are also stated as guru, because only through the physical guru can you find the formless guru. That is the function of guru nanak Shiva et al. Gur isar gur Gorakh Brahma gur Parvati mai, Akal has taken the form of a guru in many ways, that is stretching from sat yug all the way to Kal yug. There have been so many gurus. In Kal yug alone just in the span of 500 years there have 10 enlightened beings, imagine the many throughout the eons and millions of years of all four yugs. This is why it's said that sikhs today have cut Sikhism short, to begin only at 1469, the correction is that the concept of Sikhism had started with Brahma Vishnu and Mahesh as the tin chayle parvaan, the correct answer is that avtar of guru nanak dev occurred in 1469 where Sikhism was again reintroduced to Hind. After being lost in the darkness and ignorance of Kal yug. 

but surely maya was the first because the three serve under her and also got influenced by maya and had internal argument where they forgot who was the source of their power ...?

And also Maya begged at Guru ji 's duar (Guru Ram das ji) for help to be made pavitar by being used in sewa...she would only beg at Akal Puarkh's door as she is sworn to serve only It/they/SHe/He

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singh1606    4

Yeah the Dev had to correct their mistakes. That is why the asuras were created, they dethroned Indra from Amaravati in heaven and ruled the three main lokas. That's when Durga ma had to rescue Indra. She had the help of Brahma gyani rishis Samaund and Dust Daman. Durga foretold that in Kal yug these rishis and herself will again fight the asuras in our dimension. The moghals which tried to convert and conquer Hindustan were avtar of those same rakshsas that were fought as described in Chandi Di Vaar. Rishi Samaund and Rishi Dust Daman then also had to take avtar as Tyag Mal later Guru Teg Bahadur and Gobind Rai aka Guru Gobind Singh fulfilling their duty and destiny in this dimension as well. 

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singh1606    4

The Dev became ego ridden, so asuras were created to be stronger than them on purpose, in order to tarnish their ego and pride. Akal doesn't like ego, Nam and ego can't coexist, so to keep the devas close to his Nam Akal had no choice but to create powerful asuras which would conquer the Dev lok. 

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singh1606    4

Maya can also means Laxmi, ie treasure riches and luxury. She is a manifestation of Durga, like Kali and Parvati. And Saraswati as well. Laxmi is married to Akal Purakh's Vishnu sustainer Form, and is often depicted massaging Vishnu's legs and feet serving him as wife and Shakti in the form of riches, power, and luxury. Even today Maya ue laxmi always prefers to stay at the feet of Vishnu, as you can see the many dollars, pounds, or rupees that always seem to gather spontaneously wherever Guru Granth Sahib is prakash. Money is also a sargun form of Laxmi, of power and Shakti. There things that rich people can do which poor people can nit. That is Laxmi's Shakti control in the universe as per Akal Purakh. Saraswati and Parvati are also different forms of Shakti and represent other things, they are also the physical projection and manifestation of Akal Purakh in physical form, going from nirgun (formless) to sargun (physical manifestation of Shakti). 

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Kira    1,219
1 hour ago, singh1606 said:

Yeah the Dev had to correct their mistakes. That is why the asuras were created, they dethroned Indra from Amaravati in heaven and ruled the three main lokas. That's when Durga ma had to rescue Indra. She had the help of Brahma gyani rishis Samaund and Dust Daman. Durga foretold that in Kal yug these rishis and herself will again fight the asuras in our dimension. The moghals which tried to convert and conquer Hindustan were avtar of those same rakshsas that were fought as described in Chandi Di Vaar. Rishi Samaund and Rishi Dust Daman then also had to take avtar as Tyag Mal later Guru Teg Bahadur and Gobind Rai aka Guru Gobind Singh fulfilling their duty and destiny in this dimension as well. 

The Devs have always been egotistical, even now they still are as they are all bound to Death and will feel his force. Even Durga is lost is Maya, She herself is powerless without God and would have died at the hands of the Asuras if God hadn't given her the power she possessed. 

On a side note also the trinity are NOT Sikhs, that's a load of nonsense. Sikhs accept Gurbani and never proclaim themselves as Supreme, like all the trinity did. 

Durga didn't foretell anything, she ran away from the field of battle as the Daints were beating her, she would have died if she stayed. She went to Rishi Ji as she was running for her life and begged him to save her. The Chandi Guru Gobind SIngh Ji used was never Durga or any Devi, he was against any form of worship of any Devi. Durga is nothing more than one of countless maids that served him. Not the other way around. She serves him.

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Kira    1,219
14 minutes ago, singh1606 said:

Yeah but there's still no one more lost than you LoL

Sure I'm lost. I'm willing to accept it, but I'm not going around calling myself God. In that respect I differ from Devtas. If you're going to be snarky at-least be a bit more subtle about it. 

All I've done is stated what Guru Gobind Singh Ji wrote in his bani, if that's a bitter pill to swallow for you then so be it. 

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singh1606    4

Guru Gobind Singh uses Shivas name interchangeably with akal, in "De Shiva bar mohe" because what guru gobind Singh did as rishi Dust Daman in Hemkunt sahib, Shiva had done long ago as well at Mt. Kailash in the Himalayas near Mansarovar. So the guru pays his respect toward Shiva as Akal's form because Shiva is a more senior Brahma gyani, Vishnu Brahma and Shiva are our universes oldest Brahma gyanis that is why they are able to carry out Akals hukum of creation, destruction, and sustenance of the universe. When you do nindya of these Devs you are not getting anyone's belssings at all. Additionally, guru gobind Singh was not the only one to become Akali at hemkunt sahib, Pandu, the 5 Pandav brothers with Draupadi, and Laksman Sri ram chander's brother aka Shesh Naga also did bhagti at that same spot guru gobind Singh did as well, in the form of rishi Dust Daman. 

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singh1606    4

That's why I said you are lost because you are just soooo busy devta bashing. you do not understand and you do not personally know Shiva or other Brahma gyanis and their opinions, yet you already have such predetermined and strong opinions about them, without understanding their struggles or level of spirituality and their Akali Shakti, relation to Akal, and role in our universe. 

 

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singh1606    4

It seems Sikhism and sikhs have become less about nirankar and his various forms and experiences and more about simply devta bashing. It is the Kal yug after all there is bound to be confusion with inexperienced minds who believe they know and have experienced everything as though they were Brahma gyanis themselves. Be a sikh first and learn with an unbiased and open mind rather than reverting to nindya by nature and automatically, without having even tried to understand what you are denouncing. It's simply repetition of secondary and tertiary interpretations of certain parchariks, not accurate to what Bani says. 

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