Jump to content
one love kaur

Gorakh, Brahma, Mother Parbhati........according To Guru Nanak They Are Gurus

Recommended Posts

Guru Nanak Dev ji refers to Brahma, Gorakh and mother Parbhati as Gurus. I have noticed all the bashing of Hindu dieties on here, can anyone explain this part of Jap Ji to me. One Singh told me it means they were Gurus not Gods but what about 'Har harijan ekh he,' that God and his follower are one and the same. Also dont we sometimes refer to Guru Nanak as avtar. Is there any difference between God and Guru?

Before everyone starts slating me I am just trying to gain some knowledge. I am not pro Hindu or anti Sikh, just want some sensible replies from sangat with gian. Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Heera Singh    3

no.. guru sahib is sayin "god is in gorakh, god is in barma, god is in shiva" etc...

he's not sayin that they ARE gurus.... just as Guru Sahib is in you, Guru sahib is in me... doesn't mean we are Guru's...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Heera Singh    3

THAAPIA NA JAE KEETAA NA HOE

He cannot be established (confined) and cannot be made (i.e. He is self-made and is everywhere).

Thaapia: established or installede, implies confined, keeta: made

AAPE AAP NIRANJAN SOE

He created Himself, He is flawless(pure) .

aape aap: He Himself, niranjan: without spot or flawless, implies pure

JIN SEVIAA TIN PAAYA MAAN

Those who remember Him with love and devotion get spiritually elevated.

seviaa: served, implies remembered Him, maan: importance or honor

NANAK GAAVIYE GUNI NIDHAAN

Nanak says, let us sing His praises, who is a treasure of virtues.

gaaviae: should sing, guni: of virtues, nidhaan: treasure

GAVEEAE SUNEEAE MAN RAKHEEAE BHAO

By singing and by listening to His praises with love in your heart.

man: heart, bhao: love

DUKH PARHAR SUKH GHAR LAE JAO

You can get rid of pains and sorrows and your heart will be filled with true happiness.

parhar: get rid, ghar: abode, implies heart

GURMUKH NADAN GURMUKH VEDANG GURMUKH REHAA SAMAAEE

God’s word is the Eternal Song, God’s word is the Divine Knowledge, God’s word prevails everywhere.

gurmukh: Guru’s mouth, implies God’s word, nadang: tune or song, vedang: Vedas (Hindu Scriptures), implies spiritual knowledge, samaaee: prevails

GUR EESAR GUR GORAKH BARMA GUR PARBATI MAAEE

God is Shiva, God is Vishnu and Brahma, God is Parvati and other goddesses (i.e. God is one, though we have given Him many names).

Eesar, Gorakh, Barma: Hindu Gods Indra, Vishnu, and Brahma, Parbati: Hindu Goddess and Shiva’s wife Parvati, Maaee: other goddesses

JE HAON JAANA AAKHAA NAAHEE KEHNAA KATHAN NAA JAEE

Even if I attain some understanding of Him, I cannot describe Him, because He cannot be described by words.

Haon: I, jaana: know, aakhan: say or describe, kehna: describe, kathan: in words

GURAA EK DEH BHUJHAAEE

O my Guru (God), bless me with this understanding.

deh: give me or bless me, bhujaaee: understanding

SABHNAA JEEAAN KA EK DAATAA SO MEA VISAR NA JAAEE II5II

TThat I may never forget You, who is the only provider of all living beings.

sabhnaa: all, jeeaa: living beings, daataa: provider, visar: forget

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Singhstah    282

NO GUROO SAHIB HAS NOT SAID THAT THEY ARE OUR GUROOS!!!!

Infact, what that tuk is saying is that some people have Gorakh Naath to pray to, some people have Brahma Ji and some people have Prabhatee to pray to, but for us, all we have is our Guroo, our Guroo is in the place of all of these beings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mehtab Singh    3,888

This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Gauree on Ang 250

<> siqgur pRswid ]

ik oa(n)kaar sathigur prasaadh ||

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

gauVI bwvn AKrI mhlw 5 ]

gourree baavan akharee mehalaa 5 ||

Gauree, Baavan Akhree ~ The 52 Letters, Fifth Mehla:

sloku ]

salok ||

Salok:

gurdyv mwqw gurdyv ipqw gurdyv suAwmI prmysurw ]

guradhaev maathaa guradhaev pithaa guradhaev suaamee paramaesuraa ||

The Divine Guru is my mother, the Divine Guru is my father; the Divine Guru is my Transcendent Lord and Master.

gurdyv sKw AigAwn BMjnu gurdyv bMiDp shodrw ]

guradhaev sakhaa agiaan bha(n)jan guradhaev ba(n)dhhip sehodharaa ||

The Divine Guru is my companion, the Destroyer of ignorance; the Divine Guru is my relative and brother.

gurdyv dwqw hir nwmu aupdysY gurdyv mMqu inroDrw ]

guradhaev dhaathaa har naam oupadhaesai guradhaev ma(n)th nirodhharaa ||

The Divine Guru is the Giver, the Teacher of the Lord's Name. The Divine Guru is the Mantra which never fails.

gurdyv sWiq siq buiD mUriq gurdyv pwrs prs prw ]

guradhaev saa(n)th sath budhh moorath guradhaev paaras paras paraa ||

The Divine Guru is the Image of peace, truth and wisdom. The Divine Guru is the Philosopher's Stone - touching it, one is transformed.

gurdyv qIrQu AMimRq srovru gur igAwn mjnu AprMprw ]

guradhaev theerathh a(n)mrith saro// gur giaan majan apara(n)paraa ||

The Divine Guru is the sacred shrine of pilgrimage, and the pool of divine ambrosia; bathing in the Guru's wisdom, one experiences the Infinite.

gurdyv krqw siB pwp hrqw gurdyv piqq pivq krw ]

guradhaev karathaa sabh paap harathaa guradhaev pathith pavith karaa ||

The Divine Guru is the Creator, and the Destroyer of all sins; the Divine Guru is the Purifier of sinners.

gurdyv Awid jugwid jugu jugu gurdyv mMqu hir jip auDrw ]

guradhaev aadh jugaadh jug jug guradhaev ma(n)th har jap oudhharaa ||

The Divine Guru existed at the primal beginning, throughout the ages, in each and every age. The Divine Guru is the Mantra of the Lord's Name; chanting it, one is saved.

gurdyv sMgiq pRB myil kir ikrpw hm mUV pwpI ijqu lig qrw ]

guradhaev sa(n)gath prabh mael kar kirapaa ham moorr paapee jith lag tharaa ||

O God, please be merciful to me, that I may be with the Divine Guru; I am a foolish sinner, but holding onto Him, I am carried across.

gurdyv siqguru pwrbRhmu prmysru gurdyv nwnk hir nmskrw ]1]

guradhaev sathigur paarabreham paramaesar guradhaev naanak har namasakaraa ||1||

The Divine Guru is the True Guru, the Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent Lord; Nanak bows in humble reverence to the Lord, the Divine Guru. ||1||

You wouldn't translate guradhaev maathaa guradhaev pithaa as "My mother is the Guru, my father is the Guru", would you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Professor sahib singh translates it as:

Gurmukh Nadan Gurmukh Vedan Gurmukh Rahia Samayee ||

-Gurmukh means one who is facing the Guru, walks on the path of the guru

-Nadan means, Awaaz, or sound, the sound or vibration of life, shabad or Naam

-Vedan, means Giaan, or knowledge

-Rahia Samayee means god is permeating everywhere

So this means that only one who is Gurmukh obtains Naam, and Giaan or knowledge. Only being Gurmukh do we see God everywhere.

Now:

Gur Eesar Gur Gorakh Barma Gur Paarbati Mayee ||

means: For us The Guru is Shiva, for is the guru is Gorakh and Brahma, and for us the guru is Paarbati.

So if we abandon our manmat and look at gurbaani from a gurmat perspective with the aid of great translations by Professor Sahib singh ji, we learn that the Guru is everything.

People have divided God into various deities and realms, but God is one, God is everywhere and in everything. No deity is superior to Guru or God.

People should not be bashing any deites, but as sikhs we should not place any importance on them.

and we need to make the effort to actually do vichaar on gurbaani rather than following the old bakhwaas spread throughout the indian sikh community.

learn to read gurmukhi and read professor sahib singh ji's work.

you'll be amazed and sikhi will actually make so much sense. because the common translations we have, give sikhi some kind of weird incoherent appearance.

peace.

bhul chuk muaaf karni ji.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kam1825    241

Right a good topic. Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji are not talking about the dieties beings Guru. As Sikhs we accept one spiritual master only and do not go running around to four or five as adopted by Hindus who run from one demi god to another due to different needs and customs. Guru Nanak Dev Ji are praising the glory of the true spiritual master and what he does for the devotee.

I find the professor sahib singh teeka poor in translation and meanings. As Professor sahib singh only gives one translation for each tuk of bani. Bani is not like the veds. The veds are difficult to read but only have one meaning per line. Bani is easy to read but the meanings are endless. Bani is an endless ocean of wealth.

The followin is one of the many meanings of this line from the fifth pauri of the Sri Jap Jap Sahib by Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindrawalae and Sant Kirpal Singh Ji Sato Gali Walae. I hope this helps

Gur = spiritual master, Eesar = Shiva, Gorakh = Vishnu, Barma = Brahma, Parbatee = Parbati, Mai = Laxmi and Saraswati

The spiritual master is the spiritual master of the destroyer Shiva. The spiritual master is the spiritual master the provider for creation Vishnu. The spiritual master is the spiritual master of the creator of the universe Brahma. Parbati who is the consort of Shiva, Laxmi who is the consort of Vishnu and Saraswati is the consort of Brahma. The spiritual master is the master of all three of these consorts.

The spiritual master is worthy of worship. We pay our respects to the spiritual master who is complete and has these great people as their devotees.

The Sidhs asked, “So the demi gods Shiva, Brahma, Vishnu and their consorts Parbati, Laxmi and Saraswati who are below God, do you not believe in them?”

Guru Nanak Dev Ji replied

guru eIsru guru gorKu brmw guru pwrbqI mweI ]

Gur Eesar Gur Gorakh Gur Barma Gur Parbatee Mai

Gur = spiritual master, Eesar = Shiva, Gorakh = Vishnu Barma = Brahma, Parbatee = Parbati, Mai = Laxmi and Saraswati

The spiritual masters of mine are Shiva, Vishnu, and Vishnu. The spiritual masters are also Parbati, Laxmi and Saraswati.

The spiritual master is Shiva. The spiritual master does the same work as Shiva. Shiva is the destroyer of all in creation, in the same way the spiritual master is the destroyer of all the evil in the devotee.

The spiritual master is Vishnu. The spiritual master does the same work as Vishnu. Vishnu is the provider and sustainer of all in creation, in the same way the spiritual master is the sustainer and provider of knowledge and the good virtues such as truth and compassion.

The spiritual master is Brahma. The spiritual master does the same work as Brahma. Brahma is the creator of the universe, in the same way the spiritual master creates the virtues or non-attachment to the world, wisdom, wanting to get liberated, to hear and understand the words of God.

The spiritual master is Parbati. The spiritual master does the same work as Parbati. Parbati always had full faith in her consort Shiva, in the same way the spiritual master has complete faith in God and teaches the devotee to also have complete faith.

The spiritual master is Laxmi. The spiritual master does the work of Laxmi. Laxmi is the giver of gifts, in the same way the spiritual master is the giver of gifts such as mercy, knowledge, the name of God and teachings on religion.

The spiritual master is Saraswati. The spiritual master does the work of Saraswati. Saraswati is the giver of knowledge, in the same way the spiritual master imparts the gift of divine knowledge to the devotee.

In this way the spiritual master is like all of the demi gods and their consorts.

This Shows that the Guru possess all of the qualities of the deities. Hope that helps with this topic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wow

some great replies, very informative. Thanks, really impressed with the knowledge, but some of it still seems contradictory, I suppose every body can interpret it as they like because there is no universally excepted translation. Every translation is different. My sister is studying Guru Granth Sahib and Dasam Granth, so we have been having loads of debates. But the best stuff I have read is on this site. :WW:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
chatanga    1,068

We have a scholar here in kam1825. however if you want to know the full meaning of this tuk from many angles, then i will refer you to www.gurmatveechar.com where you can look up Giani Thakur Singh under the katha section. I have been listening to katha f Japji recently and he give a clear meaning of what this means. It s the only way you will really understand the message.

heres my 2 cents worth :

the Siddhs ask Guru Nanak : "who is your Guru"

Guru Ji says :

Gur isar = Guru of Shiva

Gur Gorakh =Guru of vishnu

Gur Brahma = guru of Brahma

Parbati = and parbati

Ma = and Lakhsmi

ee = and saraswati

Thier Guru is my Guru ie God.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

for a sikh only GURU is everything.

Guru is Isar of a sikh

Guru is gorakh , Guru is parbati for a sikh.

this means that hindus hindus worship different devtas etc but for a sikh only GURU IS EVERYTHING.

EVEN GURU IS FATHER, MOTHER , BROTHER AND FRIEND.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×